Knicks · Will Triangle Haters Be Happy . . . If It's Vogel Coaching (?) (page 1)

I noticed that there's (so far) a rare unanimity here
in enthusiasm for possibility of Vogel coming on as Knicks
coach.

Will the Triangle haters be happy if Vogel is coaching it (?)

I mean . . . I know that Phil Jackson is doing his darn
best to try to make us all happy here.

I will be happy with the coach.

Malcolm wrote:I noticed that there's (so far) a rare unanimity here
in enthusiasm for possibility of Vogel coming on as Knicks
coach.

Will the Triangle haters be happy if Vogel is coaching it (?)

I mean . . . I know that Phil Jackson is doing his darn
best to try to make us all happy here.

its not about hating the triangle its about getting the best coach possible and giving the coach the freedom to do whatever system he wants

Malcolm wrote:I noticed that there's (so far) a rare unanimity here
in enthusiasm for possibility of Vogel coming on as Knicks
coach.

Will the Triangle haters be happy if Vogel is coaching it (?)

I mean . . . I know that Phil Jackson is doing his darn
best to try to make us all happy here.

yes

Malcolm wrote:I noticed that there's (so far) a rare unanimity here
in enthusiasm for possibility of Vogel coming on as Knicks
coach.

Will the Triangle haters be happy if Vogel is coaching it (?)

I mean . . . I know that Phil Jackson is doing his darn
best to try to make us all happy here.

As much as I feel the Triangle is antiquated, takes too long for new players to get comfortable with it and deters FA'S from coming here, the most logical choice for Phil is Rambis. As it creates continuity. It also allows Phil to have his ideas implemented more specifically. Phil feels if he is going to go down with the ship it will be on his terms. Does not make sense committing to to a 5 year plan then giving up after 2 years. The plan has to be followed all the way through to actually be judged. Hope I'm proven wrong and he makes it work.

But yes, I would be happy if Vogel is hired as the next coach.

HofstraBBall wrote:

Malcolm wrote:I noticed that there's (so far) a rare unanimity here
in enthusiasm for possibility of Vogel coming on as Knicks
coach.

Will the Triangle haters be happy if Vogel is coaching it (?)

I mean . . . I know that Phil Jackson is doing his darn
best to try to make us all happy here.

As much as I feel the Triangle is antiquated, takes too long for new players to get comfortable with it and deters FA'S from coming here, the most logical choice for Phil is Rambis. As it creates continuity. It also allows Phil to have his ideas implemented more specifically. Phil feels if he is going to go down with the ship it will be on his terms. Does not make sense committing to to a 5 year plan then giving up after 2 years. The plan has to be followed all the way through to actually be judged. Hope I'm proven wrong and he makes it work.

But yes, I would be happy if Vogel is hired as the next coach.

which ones did it deter? Can you name names please?

Once again, you gotta go with the "Anyone but Rambis" mantra.

Can't go lower than shyt itself, so by that transitive property any coach is higher and better.

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Malcolm wrote:I noticed that there's (so far) a rare unanimity here
in enthusiasm for possibility of Vogel coming on as Knicks
coach.

Will the Triangle haters be happy if Vogel is coaching it (?)

I mean . . . I know that Phil Jackson is doing his darn
best to try to make us all happy here.

As much as I feel the Triangle is antiquated, takes too long for new players to get comfortable with it and deters FA'S from coming here, the most logical choice for Phil is Rambis. As it creates continuity. It also allows Phil to have his ideas implemented more specifically. Phil feels if he is going to go down with the ship it will be on his terms. Does not make sense committing to to a 5 year plan then giving up after 2 years. The plan has to be followed all the way through to actually be judged. Hope I'm proven wrong and he makes it work.

But yes, I would be happy if Vogel is hired as the next coach.

which ones did it deter? Can you name names please?

you don't think that FA's don't want to come here?

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Malcolm wrote:I noticed that there's (so far) a rare unanimity here
in enthusiasm for possibility of Vogel coming on as Knicks
coach.

Will the Triangle haters be happy if Vogel is coaching it (?)

I mean . . . I know that Phil Jackson is doing his darn
best to try to make us all happy here.

As much as I feel the Triangle is antiquated, takes too long for new players to get comfortable with it and deters FA'S from coming here, the most logical choice for Phil is Rambis. As it creates continuity. It also allows Phil to have his ideas implemented more specifically. Phil feels if he is going to go down with the ship it will be on his terms. Does not make sense committing to to a 5 year plan then giving up after 2 years. The plan has to be followed all the way through to actually be judged. Hope I'm proven wrong and he makes it work.

But yes, I would be happy if Vogel is hired as the next coach.

which ones did it deter? Can you name names please?

Aldridge, Monroe, carrol, and a few other, it's not that they didn't come on the strength of the triangle, but the entire situation is not an attractive one to say the least.

Players are not just going to teams because of the location anymore, and NY is not an easy town to deal with. What exactly is the selling point, especially when phil has little to no friends in the NBA(as far as trades). his circle consist of maybe 4 people, and when his bulls and lakers were pounding teams into submission because of jordan, kobe, pippen and shaq, trust and believe he didn't gain more friends in doing so

THE FACT THAT PHIL DID NOT HAVE RAMBIS IN THE PLAYERS EXITING MEETING IS BIGGER THAN YOU WOULD LIKE TO BELIEVE, fisher was in those meetings last season. If you were a current player, or FA, does that even still well with you?

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Malcolm wrote:I noticed that there's (so far) a rare unanimity here
in enthusiasm for possibility of Vogel coming on as Knicks
coach.

Will the Triangle haters be happy if Vogel is coaching it (?)

I mean . . . I know that Phil Jackson is doing his darn
best to try to make us all happy here.

As much as I feel the Triangle is antiquated, takes too long for new players to get comfortable with it and deters FA'S from coming here, the most logical choice for Phil is Rambis. As it creates continuity. It also allows Phil to have his ideas implemented more specifically. Phil feels if he is going to go down with the ship it will be on his terms. Does not make sense committing to to a 5 year plan then giving up after 2 years. The plan has to be followed all the way through to actually be judged. Hope I'm proven wrong and he makes it work.

But yes, I would be happy if Vogel is hired as the next coach.

which ones did it deter? Can you name names please?

Aldridge, Monroe, carrol, and a few other, it's not that they didn't come on the strength of the triangle, but the entire situation is not an attractive one to say the least.

Players are not just going to teams because of the location anymore, and NY is not an easy town to deal with. What exactly is the selling point, especially when phil has little to no friends in the NBA(as far as trades). his circle consist of maybe 4 people, and when his bulls and lakers were pounding teams into submission because of jordan, kobe, pippen and shaq, trust and believe he didn't gain more friends in doing so

THE FACT THAT PHIL DID NOT HAVE RAMBIS IN THE PLAYERS EXITING MEETING IS BIGGER THAN YOU WOULD LIKE TO BELIEVE, fisher was in those meetings last season. If you were a current player, or FA, does that even still well with you?

Probably that Phil wanted direct feedback on Rambis from the players.

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Malcolm wrote:I noticed that there's (so far) a rare unanimity here
in enthusiasm for possibility of Vogel coming on as Knicks
coach.

Will the Triangle haters be happy if Vogel is coaching it (?)

I mean . . . I know that Phil Jackson is doing his darn
best to try to make us all happy here.

As much as I feel the Triangle is antiquated, takes too long for new players to get comfortable with it and deters FA'S from coming here, the most logical choice for Phil is Rambis. As it creates continuity. It also allows Phil to have his ideas implemented more specifically. Phil feels if he is going to go down with the ship it will be on his terms. Does not make sense committing to to a 5 year plan then giving up after 2 years. The plan has to be followed all the way through to actually be judged. Hope I'm proven wrong and he makes it work.

But yes, I would be happy if Vogel is hired as the next coach.

which ones did it deter? Can you name names please?

Aldridge, Monroe, carrol, and a few other, it's not that they didn't come on the strength of the triangle, but the entire situation is not an attractive one to say the least.

Players are not just going to teams because of the location anymore, and NY is not an easy town to deal with. What exactly is the selling point, especially when phil has little to no friends in the NBA(as far as trades). his circle consist of maybe 4 people, and when his bulls and lakers were pounding teams into submission because of jordan, kobe, pippen and shaq, trust and believe he didn't gain more friends in doing so

THE FACT THAT PHIL DID NOT HAVE RAMBIS IN THE PLAYERS EXITING MEETING IS BIGGER THAN YOU WOULD LIKE TO BELIEVE, fisher was in those meetings last season. If you were a current player, or FA, does that even still well with you?

So that is something different. You said the triangle kept people away. Now you are saying its other factors and not the triangle per say. So can we conclude from your backtracking that your comment "deters FA'S from coming here" was not true at all and only there to support your agenda? Yea? Is that a fair conclusion?

Aldridge was not pursued by the Knicks. Neither was Carrol. You are literally just making stuff up. Thanks for your contributions.

Knicks need a center. Aldridge, with Texas roots didn't want to play center.
Monroe is a guy from Louisiana and Big city not a big deal to him. He got max money, knicks met, did not tender an offer, I'd say mutual disinterest.
Good move, they guy did not eleveate Milwaukee.
Rolo, less money, elevated knicks and his game once triangle was in place.
KP, A Latvian God can change the game of basketball is someone a young player might want to pair with.
Melo, a hyper scoring player that can open the paint up.
NYC, cultural hub in North Americal for those interested in life beyond an incredible night life and relentless media cycle.
This is a city for the cerebral player or one that aspires to be a rounded person.

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Malcolm wrote:I noticed that there's (so far) a rare unanimity here
in enthusiasm for possibility of Vogel coming on as Knicks
coach.

Will the Triangle haters be happy if Vogel is coaching it (?)

I mean . . . I know that Phil Jackson is doing his darn
best to try to make us all happy here.

As much as I feel the Triangle is antiquated, takes too long for new players to get comfortable with it and deters FA'S from coming here, the most logical choice for Phil is Rambis. As it creates continuity. It also allows Phil to have his ideas implemented more specifically. Phil feels if he is going to go down with the ship it will be on his terms. Does not make sense committing to to a 5 year plan then giving up after 2 years. The plan has to be followed all the way through to actually be judged. Hope I'm proven wrong and he makes it work.

But yes, I would be happy if Vogel is hired as the next coach.

which ones did it deter? Can you name names please?

If you think FA's are not detered by a system that will limit their individual performance or future value, you are mistaken. It is a big part of the decision process for any player. And unfortunately the Triangle, specially one that is under construction and is as rigid as the one Phil is trying to establish, is not one that most players would like to switch to. Imo. NBA players are accostommed to PnR type systems with more isolation plays. That's where they have excelled at most levels. Just does not seem likely a player will sacrifice his preferred playing style to one no other team in the NBA is running. Btw, It also does not help show flexibility when a player like LA is told he would only be considered at one position. Specially when it seems Phil and the triangle are perceived as inflexible.

However, ofcourse I don't think that it is the only reason FA's are hesitant to come here. The losing and make shift roster surely does not help. Like I said, at this point we have to ride out Phils plan and hope for the best. Just feel we will look back in three years and admit Phil was just another one of our prayers that one guy will change everything. And think Phils ego will keep him from realizing its not about one guy or one system. Hope I'm wrong.

I like the idea of Vogel coaching. He's had pretty decent success as a head coach. (I don't think he can be blamed for the demise of Hibbert... nor the craziness of Lance Stephenson... or PG13's leg)

The reports say he was an advanced scout for the Lakers while Phil was there and he handpicked Brian Shaw to be his lead assistant so there must be some level of familiarity.

Plus he's got mad skills with a toothbrush.

The alternative to hiring a new outsider would be Phil/Rambis co-coaching (Phil @Home and during the playoffs, and Rambis taking the lead on the road). I'd accept the latter scenario.

Still, the main difficulty with this team is the lack of starting quality players in the backcourt... but there's some hope that a year of seasoning for Grant and the addition of Wroten will improve our backcourt play so that we at least have low-level starter-quality players on the floor.

I prefer Vogel over Blatt and both over Rambo. Only way I'd be happy with Rambo is if the plan was to tank next season.

Remember the rally cry fellas.

Doesn't matter the name of the head coach as long as it's not that guy.

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Malcolm wrote:I noticed that there's (so far) a rare unanimity here
in enthusiasm for possibility of Vogel coming on as Knicks
coach.

Will the Triangle haters be happy if Vogel is coaching it (?)

I mean . . . I know that Phil Jackson is doing his darn
best to try to make us all happy here.

As much as I feel the Triangle is antiquated, takes too long for new players to get comfortable with it and deters FA'S from coming here, the most logical choice for Phil is Rambis. As it creates continuity. It also allows Phil to have his ideas implemented more specifically. Phil feels if he is going to go down with the ship it will be on his terms. Does not make sense committing to to a 5 year plan then giving up after 2 years. The plan has to be followed all the way through to actually be judged. Hope I'm proven wrong and he makes it work.

But yes, I would be happy if Vogel is hired as the next coach.

which ones did it deter? Can you name names please?

Aldridge, Monroe, carrol, and a few other, it's not that they didn't come on the strength of the triangle, but the entire situation is not an attractive one to say the least.

Players are not just going to teams because of the location anymore, and NY is not an easy town to deal with. What exactly is the selling point, especially when phil has little to no friends in the NBA(as far as trades). his circle consist of maybe 4 people, and when his bulls and lakers were pounding teams into submission because of jordan, kobe, pippen and shaq, trust and believe he didn't gain more friends in doing so

THE FACT THAT PHIL DID NOT HAVE RAMBIS IN THE PLAYERS EXITING MEETING IS BIGGER THAN YOU WOULD LIKE TO BELIEVE, fisher was in those meetings last season. If you were a current player, or FA, does that even still well with you?

So that is something different. You said the triangle kept people away. Now you are saying its other factors and not the triangle per say. So can we conclude from your backtracking that your comment "deters FA'S from coming here" was not true at all and only there to support your agenda? Yea? Is that a fair conclusion?

Aldridge was not pursued by the Knicks. Neither was Carrol. You are literally just making stuff up. Thanks for your contributions.

really

They are both unrestricted, meaning Atlanta can’t keep either simply by matching an offer. Millsap and Carroll intrigue Knicks president Phil Jackson because of their two-way games. While the NBA draft has captivated New York fans, Jackson has said repeatedly the Knicks will be rebuilt through their cap space (about $27 million) and free agency, especially now that they have only the fourth pick.

The coach always matters in FA

smackeddog wrote:I prefer Vogel over Blatt and both over Rambo. Only way I'd be happy with Rambo is if the plan was to tank next season.

^This goes for me as well.:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Malcolm wrote:I noticed that there's (so far) a rare unanimity here
in enthusiasm for possibility of Vogel coming on as Knicks
coach.

Will the Triangle haters be happy if Vogel is coaching it (?)

I mean . . . I know that Phil Jackson is doing his darn
best to try to make us all happy here.

As much as I feel the Triangle is antiquated, takes too long for new players to get comfortable with it and deters FA'S from coming here, the most logical choice for Phil is Rambis. As it creates continuity. It also allows Phil to have his ideas implemented more specifically. Phil feels if he is going to go down with the ship it will be on his terms. Does not make sense committing to to a 5 year plan then giving up after 2 years. The plan has to be followed all the way through to actually be judged. Hope I'm proven wrong and he makes it work.

But yes, I would be happy if Vogel is hired as the next coach.

which ones did it deter? Can you name names please?

Aldridge, Monroe, carrol, and a few other, it's not that they didn't come on the strength of the triangle, but the entire situation is not an attractive one to say the least.

Players are not just going to teams because of the location anymore, and NY is not an easy town to deal with. What exactly is the selling point, especially when phil has little to no friends in the NBA(as far as trades). his circle consist of maybe 4 people, and when his bulls and lakers were pounding teams into submission because of jordan, kobe, pippen and shaq, trust and believe he didn't gain more friends in doing so

THE FACT THAT PHIL DID NOT HAVE RAMBIS IN THE PLAYERS EXITING MEETING IS BIGGER THAN YOU WOULD LIKE TO BELIEVE, fisher was in those meetings last season. If you were a current player, or FA, does that even still well with you?

So that is something different. You said the triangle kept people away. Now you are saying its other factors and not the triangle per say. So can we conclude from your backtracking that your comment "deters FA'S from coming here" was not true at all and only there to support your agenda? Yea? Is that a fair conclusion?

Aldridge was not pursued by the Knicks. Neither was Carrol. You are literally just making stuff up. Thanks for your contributions.

really

They are both unrestricted, meaning Atlanta can’t keep either simply by matching an offer. Millsap and Carroll intrigue Knicks president Phil Jackson because of their two-way games. While the NBA draft has captivated New York fans, Jackson has said repeatedly the Knicks will be rebuilt through their cap space (about $27 million) and free agency, especially now that they have only the fourth pick.

The coach always matters in FA

According to a source close to Carroll, he has a desire to play for Knicks coach Derek Fisher, who used to be his workout partner in Southern California a few years back.

Rambis has zero clout in the NBA.

The number one reason I hated on fisher, nothing he did was consistent, right or wrong, you just never knew from game to game, but that change when i realize he wanted to do one thing, and phil wanted another. His way got us to 500, un-be knoweth..at the time.

phil will turn down talent like alridge, coaches like tom thibs

Earlier this week, LaMarcus Aldridge admitted that the Knicks had a good shot at him in free agency, but that they insisted he would play center in New York to make room for Kristaps Porzingis at power forward, something that Aldridge has been well known to refuse. Aldridge's list of demands as a free agent included specifically not playing center.

I never was big on shved, but he fit the system pretty damn good, and phil took that money to sign almundson, and seraphanie, 2 guys that barely played, had zero impact, and more than likely won't be here next season..

“I hope next year I can stay here,’’ Shved said before the Knicks beat the Magic, 80-79, on Saturday night. “My agent will do his work summertime but I want to stay here.
“We had a lot of problems and injuries,’’ Shved added. “Everything will change next year and I want to be part of it.’’

These are some of the moves that scream of inexperience, big ego, un-flexible managing.

Your right, these guys were never really pursued with any vigor, or at least not like they pursued MELO, and thats the saddest part.

knicks needed a center. Aldridge said thats not where he wanted to play. He said they had a shot. You do realize its important for free agents to create a market for themselves? Right.

"Intrigued" can mean a lot of things. I say knicks were interested but at a price? I don't know. You don't know either.

Shved? Most players say they want to stay. They want to get paid. Thats ok. We didn't want him on a multi year deal. Did you?

Yes, Vogel would be a fantastic option. He's got a little Van Gundy to him, which I like. He's a local guy from NJ.

I think of the realistic candidates, he's my top choice.

Though of course, Bird could always just re-sign him.