Knicks · Losing both Williams and Affalo (page 2)
EwingsGlass wrote:EnySpree wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:Opting out doesn't mean leaving. DWill may still resign. Will want more than a 1 year commitment. Probably more money. Afflalo wants a starting role. He should be able to find that somewhere.He made 4 million last year... we can't afford a guy making more than that if he isn't going to start for us.... 6 million maybe. When it starts to get to the 8-10 million we just have to tip our hat to the guy.
I mentioned Jared Dudley. He seems like a dude that would come in and do whatever you need him to do. He made 4 million last year too. At 30 years old and zero upside, he's not getting more than that.
If I were Derrick, I would ask for another 1 and 1 contract. Probably closer to 8mm. That said, he should stick with the Knicks even for a couple dollars less. I don't want to sound like a kool aid machine, but he could be a 6th man of the year. Walking into next year's cap situation, it's not a bad place to get his minutes.
I think of Bennett in the same sense as DWill. A reclamation project. Give Bennett a 1 and 1 contract also.
Gallo/Bennett/DWill/ has the potential for a good high energy second unit.
Derrick Williams was looking at his last chance to show he belonged in the nba with us. He proved he could. I doubt his agent is going to allow him to take less to stay here. You never know but we really need to figure out our back court before we throw money at Derrick
crzymdups wrote:BRIGGS wrote:So if we give Conley 21 mm ( which I'm totally against) and D will the Mle that's the teamKnicks have $33M in cap space.
The MLE is $12M now?
Also, Conley would absolutely make this team a playoffs team.
And we can still stretch Jose or he comes off the cap in 2017 when the cap also rises another $20M to $110M. So we'd have $12M this summer to either re-sign DWill or add a shooting guard.
$12M more in FA money
Conley / Grant / Wroten
Galloway
Melo / Lance
KP
Rolo / HernangomezThen next summer we have a 2017 first rounder + $25M in cap room next season to add to that.
It may not be the best plan in the world, but it's not terrible either.
And, yes, the Blazers will match Crabbe.
I find it hilarious that you advocate giving Crabbe $17M and Seth Curry $11M for a total of $28M, neither are proven, signing both would mean we lose DWill.
But when it comes to signing proven near all-star two-way PG Mike Conley 28 years old to $21M which would allow us to re-sign DWill and add a SG as well... then it's too much money.
I said Crabbe 14 mm and Curry 8 mm mle. That would allow us to resign d will and 2-3 draft pick/ udfa. I'm not big on resigning Galloway at 3-4 mm I think we can get his from a draft pick. Also I want to wait and see draft night to se what we may get. I've felt that way the whole time. Let's see what happens tomorrow and then we can focus on fa
Bonn1997 wrote:BRIGGS wrote:So if we give Conley 21 mm ( which I'm totally against) and D will the Mle that's the team
Yeah I don't think that would even get us to the playoffs. KP would have to have rapid off-season improvement and Melo would have to not age.
Who knows what Phil's plan actually is, but don't assume that this team won't be making the playoffs next year. A HUGE part of this team being more successful is going to come from internal growth and the changes to the offense Hornacek will bring. Not to mention that Jose and AA were the WORST defensive backcourt probably in history. That will improve almost no matter who we play instead of them.
Melo will not likely fall off next season. In fact I'm betting that he improves slightly over last year. It took him most of the season to get his legs back and a year removed from the surgery will only help him. Also his game is mostly about skill and strength. He's not going to lose either over the next few years. He's not a player that relies on great athletic ability so his "old man game" will remain pretty much in tact.
KP should look MUCH better after a year of maturing and building up his body. A summer of work on his skills. He knows what to expect now so I believe he'll be just fine. From what i've seen of KP this summer, it looks like he's working on some pretty nice stuff for next year.
Beyond that I suspect RoLo will be better from the start. The same with Grant and Wroten, who will be much more comfortable under Hornacek, who knows how to coach guards. Having more uptempo and PnR should make everyone a bit better.
EnySpree wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:Opting out doesn't mean leaving. DWill may still resign. Will want more than a 1 year commitment. Probably more money. Afflalo wants a starting role. He should be able to find that somewhere.He made 4 million last year... we can't afford a guy making more than that if he isn't going to start for us.... 6 million maybe. When it starts to get to the 8-10 million we just have to tip our hat to the guy.
I mentioned Jared Dudley. He seems like a dude that would come in and do whatever you need him to do. He made 4 million last year too. At 30 years old and zero upside, he's not getting more than that.
I think J.Dudley would be a great addition. He can hit the 3 ball, he can play 3 maybe even 4 positions and he plays good defense. For the right price he would be good to have but we don't know if Melo is pissed about Dudley saying Melo isn't a star player or whatever words he used.
BRIGGS wrote:So if we give Conley 21 mm ( which I'm totally against) and D will the Mle that's the team
No that wouldn't be the team. There would still be ways to sign some good veteran talent in free agency.
newyorker4ever wrote:EnySpree wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:Opting out doesn't mean leaving. DWill may still resign. Will want more than a 1 year commitment. Probably more money. Afflalo wants a starting role. He should be able to find that somewhere.He made 4 million last year... we can't afford a guy making more than that if he isn't going to start for us.... 6 million maybe. When it starts to get to the 8-10 million we just have to tip our hat to the guy.
I mentioned Jared Dudley. He seems like a dude that would come in and do whatever you need him to do. He made 4 million last year too. At 30 years old and zero upside, he's not getting more than that.
I think J.Dudley would be a great addition. He can hit the 3 ball, he can play 3 maybe even 4 positions and he plays good defense. For the right price he would be good to have but we don't know if Melo is pissed about Dudley saying Melo isn't a star player or whatever words he used.
Aw man I forgot about that. Melo torched his ass too when he e saw him after those comments.
Well we still have Lance Thomas to think about. I wonder what his market will be
crzymdups wrote:BRIGGS wrote:So if we give Conley 21 mm ( which I'm totally against) and D will the Mle that's the teamKnicks have $33M in cap space.
The MLE is $12M now?
Also, Conley would absolutely make this team a playoffs team.
And we can still stretch Jose or he comes off the cap in 2017 when the cap also rises another $20M to $110M. So we'd have $12M this summer to either re-sign DWill or add a shooting guard.
$12M more in FA money
Conley / Grant / Wroten
Galloway
Melo / Lance
KP
Rolo / HernangomezThen next summer we have a 2017 first rounder + $25M in cap room next season to add to that.
It may not be the best plan in the world, but it's not terrible either.
And, yes, the Blazers will match Crabbe.
I find it hilarious that you advocate giving Crabbe $17M and Seth Curry $11M for a total of $28M, neither are proven, signing both would mean we lose DWill.
But when it comes to signing proven near all-star two-way PG Mike Conley 28 years old to $21M which would allow us to re-sign DWill and add a SG as well... then it's too much money.
Good post and good points. I look at this team as being two off seasons away from a pretty much finished product so we have this off season with $30+ mil to spend and next off season with $25+ mil to spend and a 1st round pick so even if we did spend most of our cap on one big name player this off season we'd still have the $25+ and the 1st round pick to add to a really good starting 4 in Melo, KP, Rolo and lets put Conley in the 4th spot.
EnySpree wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:EnySpree wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:Opting out doesn't mean leaving. DWill may still resign. Will want more than a 1 year commitment. Probably more money. Afflalo wants a starting role. He should be able to find that somewhere.He made 4 million last year... we can't afford a guy making more than that if he isn't going to start for us.... 6 million maybe. When it starts to get to the 8-10 million we just have to tip our hat to the guy.
I mentioned Jared Dudley. He seems like a dude that would come in and do whatever you need him to do. He made 4 million last year too. At 30 years old and zero upside, he's not getting more than that.
I think J.Dudley would be a great addition. He can hit the 3 ball, he can play 3 maybe even 4 positions and he plays good defense. For the right price he would be good to have but we don't know if Melo is pissed about Dudley saying Melo isn't a star player or whatever words he used.
Aw man I forgot about that. Melo torched his ass too when he e saw him after those comments.
Well we still have Lance Thomas to think about. I wonder what his market will be
I'm pretty sure i went through pretty much all of last season letting it be known on here how much of a L.Thomas fan i am and really hope we bring him back. I'm not big on knowing all the ways of signing guys to make the most of the cap but can't we wait to sign LT to a certain time and go over the cap with his signing??
I didn't know Melo went back at Dudley. How bad did he go after him and i guess it was on social media??
it could be a poison pill but I think his first year salary wouldn't be that high with the experience he has or lacks for a contract
newyorker4ever wrote:EnySpree wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:EnySpree wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:Opting out doesn't mean leaving. DWill may still resign. Will want more than a 1 year commitment. Probably more money. Afflalo wants a starting role. He should be able to find that somewhere.He made 4 million last year... we can't afford a guy making more than that if he isn't going to start for us.... 6 million maybe. When it starts to get to the 8-10 million we just have to tip our hat to the guy.
I mentioned Jared Dudley. He seems like a dude that would come in and do whatever you need him to do. He made 4 million last year too. At 30 years old and zero upside, he's not getting more than that.
I think J.Dudley would be a great addition. He can hit the 3 ball, he can play 3 maybe even 4 positions and he plays good defense. For the right price he would be good to have but we don't know if Melo is pissed about Dudley saying Melo isn't a star player or whatever words he used.
Aw man I forgot about that. Melo torched his ass too when he e saw him after those comments.
Well we still have Lance Thomas to think about. I wonder what his market will be
I'm pretty sure i went through pretty much all of last season letting it be known on here how much of a L.Thomas fan i am and really hope we bring him back. I'm not big on knowing all the ways of signing guys to make the most of the cap but can't we wait to sign LT to a certain time and go over the cap with his signing??
I didn't know Melo went back at Dudley. How bad did he go after him and i guess it was on social media??
i think scored like 35-40 on the wizards when they played them and answered like that not thru the media
newyorker4ever wrote:EnySpree wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:EnySpree wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:Opting out doesn't mean leaving. DWill may still resign. Will want more than a 1 year commitment. Probably more money. Afflalo wants a starting role. He should be able to find that somewhere.He made 4 million last year... we can't afford a guy making more than that if he isn't going to start for us.... 6 million maybe. When it starts to get to the 8-10 million we just have to tip our hat to the guy.
I mentioned Jared Dudley. He seems like a dude that would come in and do whatever you need him to do. He made 4 million last year too. At 30 years old and zero upside, he's not getting more than that.
I think J.Dudley would be a great addition. He can hit the 3 ball, he can play 3 maybe even 4 positions and he plays good defense. For the right price he would be good to have but we don't know if Melo is pissed about Dudley saying Melo isn't a star player or whatever words he used.
Aw man I forgot about that. Melo torched his ass too when he e saw him after those comments.
Well we still have Lance Thomas to think about. I wonder what his market will be
I'm pretty sure i went through pretty much all of last season letting it be known on here how much of a L.Thomas fan i am and really hope we bring him back. I'm not big on knowing all the ways of signing guys to make the most of the cap but can't we wait to sign LT to a certain time and go over the cap with his signing??
I didn't know Melo went back at Dudley. How bad did he go after him and i guess it was on social media??
He disregarded his comments but let him have it on the court with a big scoring night.
BRIGGS wrote:crzymdups wrote:BRIGGS wrote:So if we give Conley 21 mm ( which I'm totally against) and D will the Mle that's the teamKnicks have $33M in cap space.
The MLE is $12M now?
Also, Conley would absolutely make this team a playoffs team.
And we can still stretch Jose or he comes off the cap in 2017 when the cap also rises another $20M to $110M. So we'd have $12M this summer to either re-sign DWill or add a shooting guard.
$12M more in FA money
Conley / Grant / Wroten
Galloway
Melo / Lance
KP
Rolo / HernangomezThen next summer we have a 2017 first rounder + $25M in cap room next season to add to that.
It may not be the best plan in the world, but it's not terrible either.
And, yes, the Blazers will match Crabbe.
I find it hilarious that you advocate giving Crabbe $17M and Seth Curry $11M for a total of $28M, neither are proven, signing both would mean we lose DWill.
But when it comes to signing proven near all-star two-way PG Mike Conley 28 years old to $21M which would allow us to re-sign DWill and add a SG as well... then it's too much money.
I said Crabbe 14 mm and Curry 8 mm mle. That would allow us to resign d will and 2-3 draft pick/ udfa. I'm not big on resigning Galloway at 3-4 mm I think we can get his from a draft pick. Also I want to wait and see draft night to se what we may get. I've felt that way the whole time. Let's see what happens tomorrow and then we can focus on fa
I thought you said 4yr/$44M for Curry and 4yr/$70M or something for Crabbe.
Either way - you are investing say ~$22M+ in Crabbe/Curry vs ~$22M in Conley. I agree with you Crabbe is a good bet to eventually become a solid player. But he's not a complete player. He's a shooter, maybe Klay Thompson lite on offense, without the D. Seth Curry is a complete gamble. More of a gamble than Lin was in 2012. And you're talking about giving him $8M and more for 4 years. That's a huge risk.
Also, both Crabbe and Curry are RFA - so we could get them to sign offer sheets, tie up our cap space and then all the other FA sign and we lose out completely if Portland and Sacramento match. SAC is letting Rondo go, how do we know they don't match on Curry? They have three days to evaluate the market, realize that they can't do better and match. Same with Portland and Crabbe.
Conley agrees to sign here and we get him and he's a young vet at 28 who has proven he can play at the highest levels of NBA playoffs basketball. He's a complete PG with no holes in his game who would be a perfect fit next to Melo and KP. His contract and career development syncs up with Melo and Rolo - he's similar age and he'd be signed for one more year than those two. It'd be ideal. Melo is not going anywhere and wants to win - this is a good move. And it helps KP's development, too. I dunno, I'm for it.
I'd rather invest $22M in a sure thing, rather than two question marks.
I'm not too scared of losing DWill - I kind of agree that we can get the production he gave us from someone like Anthony Bennett or another cheaper FA. DWill had some beautiful dunks, but shot mediocre from 3pt land and he's a bad defender. If he's back, I'm on board. But if he goes somewhere else for a big pay day, I don't shed too many tears.
callmened wrote:well you know how i feel about Bennett (he's a laughing joke). i understand beggars cant be choosers so at the very least, ill invite him to summer camp and see if he can play the game of basketball. but until then, i want assume anything about him playing a bench role or making an NBA roster.in terms of depth: wroten/jose, gallo, lance,oquinn and willie g are justfine off the bench
starters: grant, (insert must get SG), melo, kp and rolo
While we go thru this PG adjustment, the SG situation is crucial, IMO. The AA experiment did not live up to it's promises.
crzymdups wrote:BRIGGS wrote:So if we give Conley 21 mm ( which I'm totally against) and D will the Mle that's the teamKnicks have $33M in cap space.
The MLE is $12M now?
Also, Conley would absolutely make this team a playoffs team.
And we can still stretch Jose or he comes off the cap in 2017 when the cap also rises another $20M to $110M. So we'd have $12M this summer to either re-sign DWill or add a shooting guard.
$12M more in FA money
Conley / Grant / Wroten
Galloway
Melo / Lance
KP
Rolo / HernangomezThen next summer we have a 2017 first rounder + $25M in cap room next season to add to that.
It may not be the best plan in the world, but it's not terrible either.
And, yes, the Blazers will match Crabbe.
I find it hilarious that you advocate giving Crabbe $17M and Seth Curry $11M for a total of $28M, neither are proven, signing both would mean we lose DWill.
But when it comes to signing proven near all-star two-way PG Mike Conley 28 years old to $21M which would allow us to re-sign DWill and add a SG as well... then it's too much money.
Isn't Mike Conley's Achilles problem enough of a red flag to say "STAY AWAY"? It sounds like Amar'e II -The Sequel. This guy is gonna get a 4 year, max dollar contract. I would rather be wrong with a lesser player before I go thru that again. It might not be the 1st year, or the 2nd year, but it is INEVITABLE
crzymdups wrote:BRIGGS wrote:crzymdups wrote:BRIGGS wrote:So if we give Conley 21 mm ( which I'm totally against) and D will the Mle that's the teamKnicks have $33M in cap space.
The MLE is $12M now?
Also, Conley would absolutely make this team a playoffs team.
And we can still stretch Jose or he comes off the cap in 2017 when the cap also rises another $20M to $110M. So we'd have $12M this summer to either re-sign DWill or add a shooting guard.
$12M more in FA money
Conley / Grant / Wroten
Galloway
Melo / Lance
KP
Rolo / HernangomezThen next summer we have a 2017 first rounder + $25M in cap room next season to add to that.
It may not be the best plan in the world, but it's not terrible either.
And, yes, the Blazers will match Crabbe.
I find it hilarious that you advocate giving Crabbe $17M and Seth Curry $11M for a total of $28M, neither are proven, signing both would mean we lose DWill.
But when it comes to signing proven near all-star two-way PG Mike Conley 28 years old to $21M which would allow us to re-sign DWill and add a SG as well... then it's too much money.
I said Crabbe 14 mm and Curry 8 mm mle. That would allow us to resign d will and 2-3 draft pick/ udfa. I'm not big on resigning Galloway at 3-4 mm I think we can get his from a draft pick. Also I want to wait and see draft night to se what we may get. I've felt that way the whole time. Let's see what happens tomorrow and then we can focus on fa
I thought you said 4yr/$44M for Curry and 4yr/$70M or something for Crabbe.
Either way - you are investing say ~$22M+ in Crabbe/Curry vs ~$22M in Conley. I agree with you Crabbe is a good bet to eventually become a solid player. But he's not a complete player. He's a shooter, maybe Klay Thompson lite on offense, without the D. Seth Curry is a complete gamble. More of a gamble than Lin was in 2012. And you're talking about giving him $8M and more for 4 years. That's a huge risk.
Also, both Crabbe and Curry are RFA - so we could get them to sign offer sheets, tie up our cap space and then all the other FA sign and we lose out completely if Portland and Sacramento match. SAC is letting Rondo go, how do we know they don't match on Curry? They have three days to evaluate the market, realize that they can't do better and match. Same with Portland and Crabbe.
Conley agrees to sign here and we get him and he's a young vet at 28 who has proven he can play at the highest levels of NBA playoffs basketball. He's a complete PG with no holes in his game who would be a perfect fit next to Melo and KP. His contract and career development syncs up with Melo and Rolo - he's similar age and he'd be signed for one more year than those two. It'd be ideal. Melo is not going anywhere and wants to win - this is a good move. And it helps KP's development, too. I dunno, I'm for it.
I'd rather invest $22M in a sure thing, rather than two question marks.
I'm not too scared of losing DWill - I kind of agree that we can get the production he gave us from someone like Anthony Bennett or another cheaper FA. DWill had some beautiful dunks, but shot mediocre from 3pt land and he's a bad defender. If he's back, I'm on board. But if he goes somewhere else for a big pay day, I don't shed too many tears.
Yeah, I think Conley for 23 is better than Curry/Crab for 23. If the offseason is something along the lines of get back Williams/Lance Thomas, add Conley in free agency and then get a draft pick or 2, I'd be okay with that.
Were better off developing younger players and trying to stay competitive while we improve. Mike Conley would improve us--but hes no championship player. In his prime he played with really good players already and now hes going to go south. If the Knicks feel they need to make a splash with a "name" go get Rose for this year. Take 13mm off of Chicago's books and give them a future 1 with severe restriction that really will convey into two 2's. This way Grant and or any draft pick we get can develop another year besides Rose. Really I want to see draft night--its hard to predict anything until we see draft night--lets see if we make any trades etc... but my feeling is a 6-1 175 PG who has had injury problems isnt going to change the dial that much. Id do Rondo for 2 years 30mm way before Conley
BRIGGS wrote:Were not even sniffing anything in the east with LBJ and Irving. Im not wasting 21mm on Conley. Conley and Carmelo are NO where and I mean no where near LBJ and Irving--not on the same planet.Were better off developing younger players and trying to stay competitive while we improve. Mike Conley would improve us--but hes no championship player. In his prime he played with really good players already and now hes going to go south. If the Knicks feel they need to make a splash with a "name" go get Rose for this year. Take 13mm off of Chicago's books and give them a future 1 with severe restriction that really will convey into two 2's. This way Grant and or any draft pick we get can develop another year besides Rose. Really I want to see draft night--its hard to predict anything until we see draft night--lets see if we make any trades etc... but my feeling is a 6-1 175 PG who has had injury problems isnt going to change the dial that much. Id do Rondo for 2 years 30mm way before Conley
Yeah, but we're talking about building a TEAM, not building a two-man team, building a five-man team (really a ten-twelve man team).
No, Melo is not as good as Lebron (who is? no one in the league). Conley isn't as good as Kyrie, but maybe he can guard him and slow him down.
Also we know that Kevin Love cannot contain KP. KP in his rookie season DESTROYED Kevin Love - absolutely DOMINATED HIM. In his rookie season.
It's about building a team.
Conley fits the team. I don't even know that he'll come here. He might go to the Spurs or Pacers or stay home in Memphis.
But if we have the chance to sign him, I'd do it.
crzymdups wrote:Briggs has waaaaay many posts invested in Crabbe to look at logic at this point. Make much more sense to marry yourself to bit player with 3/4 of one decent season than get a guy that immediately improves your team and the players on it. Crabbe may get better, but paying him what Briggs suggests is one of the worst bets Ive seen floating around hereBRIGGS wrote:crzymdups wrote:BRIGGS wrote:So if we give Conley 21 mm ( which I'm totally against) and D will the Mle that's the teamKnicks have $33M in cap space.
The MLE is $12M now?
Also, Conley would absolutely make this team a playoffs team.
And we can still stretch Jose or he comes off the cap in 2017 when the cap also rises another $20M to $110M. So we'd have $12M this summer to either re-sign DWill or add a shooting guard.
$12M more in FA money
Conley / Grant / Wroten
Galloway
Melo / Lance
KP
Rolo / HernangomezThen next summer we have a 2017 first rounder + $25M in cap room next season to add to that.
It may not be the best plan in the world, but it's not terrible either.
And, yes, the Blazers will match Crabbe.
I find it hilarious that you advocate giving Crabbe $17M and Seth Curry $11M for a total of $28M, neither are proven, signing both would mean we lose DWill.
But when it comes to signing proven near all-star two-way PG Mike Conley 28 years old to $21M which would allow us to re-sign DWill and add a SG as well... then it's too much money.
I said Crabbe 14 mm and Curry 8 mm mle. That would allow us to resign d will and 2-3 draft pick/ udfa. I'm not big on resigning Galloway at 3-4 mm I think we can get his from a draft pick. Also I want to wait and see draft night to se what we may get. I've felt that way the whole time. Let's see what happens tomorrow and then we can focus on fa
I thought you said 4yr/$44M for Curry and 4yr/$70M or something for Crabbe.
Either way - you are investing say ~$22M+ in Crabbe/Curry vs ~$22M in Conley. I agree with you Crabbe is a good bet to eventually become a solid player. But he's not a complete player. He's a shooter, maybe Klay Thompson lite on offense, without the D. Seth Curry is a complete gamble. More of a gamble than Lin was in 2012. And you're talking about giving him $8M and more for 4 years. That's a huge risk.
Also, both Crabbe and Curry are RFA - so we could get them to sign offer sheets, tie up our cap space and then all the other FA sign and we lose out completely if Portland and Sacramento match. SAC is letting Rondo go, how do we know they don't match on Curry? They have three days to evaluate the market, realize that they can't do better and match. Same with Portland and Crabbe.
Conley agrees to sign here and we get him and he's a young vet at 28 who has proven he can play at the highest levels of NBA playoffs basketball. He's a complete PG with no holes in his game who would be a perfect fit next to Melo and KP. His contract and career development syncs up with Melo and Rolo - he's similar age and he'd be signed for one more year than those two. It'd be ideal. Melo is not going anywhere and wants to win - this is a good move. And it helps KP's development, too. I dunno, I'm for it.
I'd rather invest $22M in a sure thing, rather than two question marks.
I'm not too scared of losing DWill - I kind of agree that we can get the production he gave us from someone like Anthony Bennett or another cheaper FA. DWill had some beautiful dunks, but shot mediocre from 3pt land and he's a bad defender. If he's back, I'm on board. But if he goes somewhere else for a big pay day, I don't shed too many tears.