Knicks · Phil has gone all in - the official Man up thread (page 3)

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:I don't see these moves as going all in. The Rose trade surprised me and I didn't like it when it happened but it opened the door to the moves that have happened since. That trade wasn't like when Walsh sent the ninth pick in the draft and another first rounder with Jared Jeffries for cap space. The Knicks have Rose and Holiday on one year deals. They added a second round pick. Jennings is on a one year deal. I was hoping for a Courtney Lee signing when I thought Rambis was still going to be coach so I have no issues with that deal. I like the Noah deal. There are obvious injury risks but leadership, heart, defense and passing are things this team needs. If he is reasonably healthy I think it is at worse a push with Lopez leaving. I loved that he resigned Lance to a below market deal for four years. The guy deserves to be paid and to have stability.
The Knicks have gone all in in the past. It has always involved using up all cap space for multiple years and the trading away of future draft picks and young players. Grant was traded in the Rose deal but no picks were given up and the Knicks are projected to have 33 mil in cap space next year with their picks. I am not sure how that is all in or resembles anything close to it especially after having to wait out the results of going all in in the past for many years.

this... some current assets were given up but no future assets. That's the thing. Everything going out can be quantified. Trading unprotected picks cant be quantified, because there is no way to gauge the value. The only future disaster is that Grant turns into a perennial all star. That is the risk.

I marginally disagree. Draft picks aren't the only future asset. The cap & money being paid out in the future is an asset. Rose being in the last year - his open salary & any future cap space, that is an asset. Noah & Lee's contracts are liabilities against our cap for four years. These liabilities can be productive if they perform and stay healthy. Or destructive if they're hurt, untradeable and prevent us from signing someone else.

But yes, trading future first rounders - we avoided. So far. So I guess, yes, Phil didn't go all in all in, but he did push most of his chips into pot, and he did so for this year, and really the next few.

what the nonsense is this?

I'm guessing they are looking to be a regular playoff team and build up how players around the league view the Knicks. I personally don't love the off season. I felt we had so much more potential after the Rose trade given the amount of money we were going to have in 2017 to go along with the amount of quality FAs. But it is what it is.

If we make playoffs regularly over the next few yrs and KP starts to shine while being guided by veterans. We could possibly turn that into something as players start to take us seriously again. The cap is expected to increase by 16 mil next off season and we have our draft pick. So the possibility of building depth is there.

I still think this is organic growth. They just had to inherit the veterans that this team lacked. From here, the next 4 years of new players and draft picks will have a solid core of veterans to establish an NBA culture that makes sense. If anything, I want Jax to leave NY having established a franchise culture. We have draft picks from hereon. Keep em. We have cap space from hereon, use it wisely. We have core talent. We need to fill in the back of the rotation and the bench. But that will take a couple more years. This growth is already positive. I want to be the Spurs culture. Not the Heat.

EwingsGlass wrote:I still think this is organic growth. They just had to inherit the veterans that this team lacked. From here, the next 4 years of new players and draft picks will have a solid core of veterans to establish an NBA culture that makes sense. If anything, I want Jax to leave NY having established a franchise culture. We have draft picks from hereon. Keep em. We have cap space from hereon, use it wisely. We have core talent. We need to fill in the back of the rotation and the bench. But that will take a couple more years. This growth is already positive. I want to be the Spurs culture. Not the Heat.

Yes. Especially you got the W-Knicks now, extend the team concept there and use as a lower pressure lab. Plus I am loving the international scouting we are doing, keep it up. this in NYC, home of the UN... we should always have the best intl scouts anyway!

It's been sad seeing this club repelling talent, nice to see it attract again. Lots of new blood so Melo just gets his DadMelo and get everybody in the minivan.

I doubted Phil but I am seeing how his Zen works. Lies low in the desert and then strikes! Suddenly he's got a cascade of accomplished talent recruited. Props

newyorknewyork wrote:I'm guessing they are looking to be a regular playoff team and build up how players around the league view the Knicks. I personally don't love the off season. I felt we had so much more potential after the Rose trade given the amount of money we were going to have in 2017 to go along with the amount of quality FAs. But it is what it is.

If we make playoffs regularly over the next few yrs and KP starts to shine while being guided by veterans. We could possibly turn that into something as players start to take us seriously again. The cap is expected to increase by 16 mil next off season and we have our draft pick. So the possibility of building depth is there.

That's probably the best case scenario.Hope it plays out like that

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:I don't see these moves as going all in. The Rose trade surprised me and I didn't like it when it happened but it opened the door to the moves that have happened since. That trade wasn't like when Walsh sent the ninth pick in the draft and another first rounder with Jared Jeffries for cap space. The Knicks have Rose and Holiday on one year deals. They added a second round pick. Jennings is on a one year deal. I was hoping for a Courtney Lee signing when I thought Rambis was still going to be coach so I have no issues with that deal. I like the Noah deal. There are obvious injury risks but leadership, heart, defense and passing are things this team needs. If he is reasonably healthy I think it is at worse a push with Lopez leaving. I loved that he resigned Lance to a below market deal for four years. The guy deserves to be paid and to have stability.
The Knicks have gone all in in the past. It has always involved using up all cap space for multiple years and the trading away of future draft picks and young players. Grant was traded in the Rose deal but no picks were given up and the Knicks are projected to have 33 mil in cap space next year with their picks. I am not sure how that is all in or resembles anything close to it especially after having to wait out the results of going all in in the past for many years.

this... some current assets were given up but no future assets. That's the thing. Everything going out can be quantified. Trading unprotected picks cant be quantified, because there is no way to gauge the value. The only future disaster is that Grant turns into a perennial all star. That is the risk.

I marginally disagree. Draft picks aren't the only future asset. The cap & money being paid out in the future is an asset. Rose being in the last year - his open salary & any future cap space, that is an asset. Noah & Lee's contracts are liabilities against our cap for four years. These liabilities can be productive if they perform and stay healthy. Or destructive if they're hurt, untradeable and prevent us from signing someone else.

But yes, trading future first rounders - we avoided. So far. So I guess, yes, Phil didn't go all in all in, but he did push most of his chips into pot, and he did so for this year, and really the next few.

what the nonsense is this?

Agreed...this guy wants the entire Knicks roster to be on 1 year deals....Thats not the way it works...Problme with posters like Franco, if the Knicks don't sign the players He Wants, on Deals that He Wants, then the Knicks and Phil Jackson failed

EwingsGlass wrote:I still think this is organic growth. They just had to inherit the veterans that this team lacked. From here, the next 4 years of new players and draft picks will have a solid core of veterans to establish an NBA culture that makes sense. If anything, I want Jax to leave NY having established a franchise culture. We have draft picks from hereon. Keep em. We have cap space from hereon, use it wisely. We have core talent. We need to fill in the back of the rotation and the bench. But that will take a couple more years. This growth is already positive. I want to be the Spurs culture. Not the Heat.

I mean exactly... and part of that organic growth is a former MVP at 27 years old might just have some game left. God we could use a little karma after eons of MJ spankings! I am rooting hard for Rose. Noah comes home. Melo and KP are already a dynamic duo. I am chomping to see what Willy does, and the dude is coming off the Olympics where hopefully he gets some burn and comes into camp toasting and posting. I love the Lance singing. I mean and if the whole sky falls and everyone laughs at us maybe we get ANOTHER franchise player in this draft (remember the last time the NBA world laughed at us?). For once as a Knick fan I feel like we have balance. We dont need magic to happen. If it does we could be fighting it out with Lebron's Cavs in the conference finals. If it doesnt, well thats what the draft is for.