Knicks · OT: Yankees Fire Sale (page 2)
Moonangie wrote:Cashman just saved the Yankees from their well-documented foolishness of the past era. In just a few days he changed the Yankees' fortunes for the next decade. We may not win it all in the next couple of years, but we weren't doing much with the likes of A-Rod, Texeira, et al anyway.Perfect timing for Cashman to get max return for our assets, some of whom might be back soon enough when they hit FA. Ain't baseball fun?
26 titles doesn't exactly amount to foolishness, they had to be doing something right
callmened wrote:i heard they might buyout ARoid at the end of this yr
good. then i will start watching the yankees again.
EnySpree wrote:Cashman is a hall of fame executive.... he fires out and gets it done. No matter what the organization wants to do he goes out and gets it done. He moved a 39 year old free agent to be for a killer package. He got a killer package for a top free agent reliever that might even end up resigning with the Yankees this winter. He also got the adequate compensation for arguably the best closer in the game.... all in just a couple days. He's a beast.
What the heck r u smoking? His drafts have been terrible. Who has he drafted that did anything over the past 10 yrs? His free agent signings the past 5 yrs stunk. Ellsbury 7yrs at his age??? when they already had Gardner. Signing over the hill players for long term contracts. Look how the Red Sox built up their farm system compared to the Yanks. Also Yanks farm much improved after these trades but no way near #1. Maybe top 5-10. Cashman making 3 good trades doesn't erase all the crap he has done.
Overall though, with new regional tv contracts and ownership that doesn't want to spend into the luxury tax, prospects mean everything and money doesn't mean as much as it used to. Last year they had a shot and took it. This year they have none and moved pieces.
EnySpree wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:EnySpree wrote:Cashman is a hall of fame executive.... he fires out and gets it done. No matter what the organization wants to do he goes out and gets it done. He moved a 39 year old free agent to be for a killer package. He got a killer package for a top free agent reliever that might even end up resigning with the Yankees this winter. He also got the adequate compensation for arguably the best closer in the game.... all in just a couple days. He's a beast.Well, the team has been disappointing for a long time. Maybe that's on the Steinbrenners and not Cashman, or maybe both. We don't really know for sure. If that's entirely on the Steinbrenners and Cashman really is great, then I hope they stay a mile away from all future decisions. This is an exciting and shocking new direction!
He just does what his bosses want and does it well. They may or may not listen to him, but whatever is going on, if the Steinbrenners or the brain trust or whoever wants something to happen Cashman makes it happen and then some.
Reposting this for BigRedDog
BigRedDog wrote:EnySpree wrote:Cashman is a hall of fame executive.... he fires out and gets it done. No matter what the organization wants to do he goes out and gets it done. He moved a 39 year old free agent to be for a killer package. He got a killer package for a top free agent reliever that might even end up resigning with the Yankees this winter. He also got the adequate compensation for arguably the best closer in the game.... all in just a couple days. He's a beast.What the heck r u smoking? His drafts have been terrible. Who has he drafted that did anything over the past 10 yrs? His free agent signings the past 5 yrs stunk. Ellsbury 7yrs at his age??? when they already had Gardner. Signing over the hill players for long term contracts. Look how the Red Sox built up their farm system compared to the Yanks. Also Yanks farm much improved after these trades but no way near #1. Maybe top 5-10. Cashman making 3 good trades doesn't erase all the crap he has done.
uh correct me if I'm wrong but didn't cash draft the greatest yankee of all time in baseball jesus (jeter), also posada,andy p, and ravera
lets also not forget that he has worked under the control freaks that are the owners and has not been fired yet, thats a amazing feat in itself. i think now that the boss is dead he is finally allowed to do what he did in the 90's by building a foundation and not buying superstars just to fill the seats the bosses way.
BigRedDog wrote:EnySpree wrote:Cashman is a hall of fame executive.... he fires out and gets it done. No matter what the organization wants to do he goes out and gets it done. He moved a 39 year old free agent to be for a killer package. He got a killer package for a top free agent reliever that might even end up resigning with the Yankees this winter. He also got the adequate compensation for arguably the best closer in the game.... all in just a couple days. He's a beast.What the heck r u smoking? His drafts have been terrible. Who has he drafted that did anything over the past 10 yrs? His free agent signings the past 5 yrs stunk. Ellsbury 7yrs at his age??? when they already had Gardner. Signing over the hill players for long term contracts. Look how the Red Sox built up their farm system compared to the Yanks. Also Yanks farm much improved after these trades but no way near #1. Maybe top 5-10. Cashman making 3 good trades doesn't erase all the crap he has done.
I guess his 4 championships mean nothing? Actually 5, he won one as an assistant...
EnySpree wrote:EnySpree wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:EnySpree wrote:Cashman is a hall of fame executive.... he fires out and gets it done. No matter what the organization wants to do he goes out and gets it done. He moved a 39 year old free agent to be for a killer package. He got a killer package for a top free agent reliever that might even end up resigning with the Yankees this winter. He also got the adequate compensation for arguably the best closer in the game.... all in just a couple days. He's a beast.Well, the team has been disappointing for a long time. Maybe that's on the Steinbrenners and not Cashman, or maybe both. We don't really know for sure. If that's entirely on the Steinbrenners and Cashman really is great, then I hope they stay a mile away from all future decisions. This is an exciting and shocking new direction!
He just does what his bosses want and does it well. They may or may not listen to him, but whatever is going on, if the Steinbrenners or the brain trust or whoever wants something to happen Cashman makes it happen and then some.
Reposting this for BigRedDog
Doesn't explain his terrible drafting record or the fact that they can't teach pitching in the minor leagues. GM's responsibility. Severino comes up with one pitch, a fastball. What the hell are they teaching in the minors???
fitzfarm wrote:BigRedDog wrote:EnySpree wrote:Cashman is a hall of fame executive.... he fires out and gets it done. No matter what the organization wants to do he goes out and gets it done. He moved a 39 year old free agent to be for a killer package. He got a killer package for a top free agent reliever that might even end up resigning with the Yankees this winter. He also got the adequate compensation for arguably the best closer in the game.... all in just a couple days. He's a beast.What the heck r u smoking? His drafts have been terrible. Who has he drafted that did anything over the past 10 yrs? His free agent signings the past 5 yrs stunk. Ellsbury 7yrs at his age??? when they already had Gardner. Signing over the hill players for long term contracts. Look how the Red Sox built up their farm system compared to the Yanks. Also Yanks farm much improved after these trades but no way near #1. Maybe top 5-10. Cashman making 3 good trades doesn't erase all the crap he has done.
uh correct me if I'm wrong but didn't cash draft the greatest yankee of all time in baseball jesus (jeter), also posada,andy p, and ravera
lets also not forget that he has worked under the control freaks that are the owners and has not been fired yet, thats a amazing feat in itself. i think now that the boss is dead he is finally allowed to do what he did in the 90's by building a foundation and not buying superstars just to fill the seats the bosses way.
Honestly you are taking a draft from 1992 and telling me he is a great drafter??? 24 YEARS AGO.. Wake the F up. His drafts are terrible.
BigRedDog wrote:EnySpree wrote:EnySpree wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:EnySpree wrote:Cashman is a hall of fame executive.... he fires out and gets it done. No matter what the organization wants to do he goes out and gets it done. He moved a 39 year old free agent to be for a killer package. He got a killer package for a top free agent reliever that might even end up resigning with the Yankees this winter. He also got the adequate compensation for arguably the best closer in the game.... all in just a couple days. He's a beast.Well, the team has been disappointing for a long time. Maybe that's on the Steinbrenners and not Cashman, or maybe both. We don't really know for sure. If that's entirely on the Steinbrenners and Cashman really is great, then I hope they stay a mile away from all future decisions. This is an exciting and shocking new direction!
He just does what his bosses want and does it well. They may or may not listen to him, but whatever is going on, if the Steinbrenners or the brain trust or whoever wants something to happen Cashman makes it happen and then some.
Reposting this for BigRedDog
Doesn't explain his terrible drafting record or the fact that they can't teach pitching in the minor leagues. GM's responsibility. Severino comes up with one pitch, a fastball. What the hell are they teaching in the minors???
So you mad at Cashman or the minor league coaches?
knicks1248 wrote:Moonangie wrote:Cashman just saved the Yankees from their well-documented foolishness of the past era. In just a few days he changed the Yankees' fortunes for the next decade. We may not win it all in the next couple of years, but we weren't doing much with the likes of A-Rod, Texeira, et al anyway.Perfect timing for Cashman to get max return for our assets, some of whom might be back soon enough when they hit FA. Ain't baseball fun?
26 titles doesn't exactly amount to foolishness, they had to be doing something right
Yes, of course. I meant in the current era of baseball (i.e., money ball, analytics, etc.) I just mean that it's a great thing Cashman's doing for the team, and something we wish Knicks mgmt could emulate. Maybe now they (sort of) are? Maybe not. Time will tell.
BigRedDog wrote:fitzfarm wrote:BigRedDog wrote:EnySpree wrote:Cashman is a hall of fame executive.... he fires out and gets it done. No matter what the organization wants to do he goes out and gets it done. He moved a 39 year old free agent to be for a killer package. He got a killer package for a top free agent reliever that might even end up resigning with the Yankees this winter. He also got the adequate compensation for arguably the best closer in the game.... all in just a couple days. He's a beast.What the heck r u smoking? His drafts have been terrible. Who has he drafted that did anything over the past 10 yrs? His free agent signings the past 5 yrs stunk. Ellsbury 7yrs at his age??? when they already had Gardner. Signing over the hill players for long term contracts. Look how the Red Sox built up their farm system compared to the Yanks. Also Yanks farm much improved after these trades but no way near #1. Maybe top 5-10. Cashman making 3 good trades doesn't erase all the crap he has done.
uh correct me if I'm wrong but didn't cash draft the greatest yankee of all time in baseball jesus (jeter), also posada,andy p, and ravera
lets also not forget that he has worked under the control freaks that are the owners and has not been fired yet, thats a amazing feat in itself. i think now that the boss is dead he is finally allowed to do what he did in the 90's by building a foundation and not buying superstars just to fill the seats the bosses way.
Honestly you are taking a draft from 1992 and telling me he is a great drafter??? 24 YEARS AGO.. Wake the F up. His drafts are terrible.
In 24 years how many Mariano's and jeters have been drafted that answer is simple, zero ... How can you be good at drafts when they would trade them away for big names , and that's stienbreener' not cash.
How many other teams have won as many chips as cash did with the yanks, zero ... This is the first time that the stienbreener's are really letting him rebuild the roster with top prospects since 1992 and look how that turned out . We had a super dynasty, thanks to cash ... I wouldn't want any other gm . Cash is the man and I trust his rebuild .
fitzfarm wrote:BigRedDog wrote:fitzfarm wrote:BigRedDog wrote:EnySpree wrote:Cashman is a hall of fame executive.... he fires out and gets it done. No matter what the organization wants to do he goes out and gets it done. He moved a 39 year old free agent to be for a killer package. He got a killer package for a top free agent reliever that might even end up resigning with the Yankees this winter. He also got the adequate compensation for arguably the best closer in the game.... all in just a couple days. He's a beast.What the heck r u smoking? His drafts have been terrible. Who has he drafted that did anything over the past 10 yrs? His free agent signings the past 5 yrs stunk. Ellsbury 7yrs at his age??? when they already had Gardner. Signing over the hill players for long term contracts. Look how the Red Sox built up their farm system compared to the Yanks. Also Yanks farm much improved after these trades but no way near #1. Maybe top 5-10. Cashman making 3 good trades doesn't erase all the crap he has done.
uh correct me if I'm wrong but didn't cash draft the greatest yankee of all time in baseball jesus (jeter), also posada,andy p, and ravera
lets also not forget that he has worked under the control freaks that are the owners and has not been fired yet, thats a amazing feat in itself. i think now that the boss is dead he is finally allowed to do what he did in the 90's by building a foundation and not buying superstars just to fill the seats the bosses way.
Honestly you are taking a draft from 1992 and telling me he is a great drafter??? 24 YEARS AGO.. Wake the F up. His drafts are terrible.
In 24 years how many Mariano's and jeters have been drafted that answer is simple, zero ... How can you be good at drafts when they would trade them away for big names , and that's stienbreener' not cash.
How many other teams have won as many chips as cash did with the yanks, zero ... This is the first time that the stienbreener's are really letting him rebuild the roster with top prospects since 1992 and look how that turned out . We had a super dynasty, thanks to cash ... I wouldn't want any other gm . Cash is the man and I trust his rebuild .
Cashman didn't draft any of the Core 4 or their contemporaries. That was all the previous GM, forgetting his name right now.
Edit: Stick Michael
During Michael's tenure as general manager, the Yankees drafted or signed such notable players as Mariano Rivera, Andy Pettitte, Derek Jeter, Jorge Posada (collectively known as the Core Four), and others. Further, he traded popular prospect Roberto Kelly for Paul O'Neill,
H1AND1 wrote:fitzfarm wrote:BigRedDog wrote:fitzfarm wrote:BigRedDog wrote:EnySpree wrote:Cashman is a hall of fame executive.... he fires out and gets it done. No matter what the organization wants to do he goes out and gets it done. He moved a 39 year old free agent to be for a killer package. He got a killer package for a top free agent reliever that might even end up resigning with the Yankees this winter. He also got the adequate compensation for arguably the best closer in the game.... all in just a couple days. He's a beast.What the heck r u smoking? His drafts have been terrible. Who has he drafted that did anything over the past 10 yrs? His free agent signings the past 5 yrs stunk. Ellsbury 7yrs at his age??? when they already had Gardner. Signing over the hill players for long term contracts. Look how the Red Sox built up their farm system compared to the Yanks. Also Yanks farm much improved after these trades but no way near #1. Maybe top 5-10. Cashman making 3 good trades doesn't erase all the crap he has done.
uh correct me if I'm wrong but didn't cash draft the greatest yankee of all time in baseball jesus (jeter), also posada,andy p, and ravera
lets also not forget that he has worked under the control freaks that are the owners and has not been fired yet, thats a amazing feat in itself. i think now that the boss is dead he is finally allowed to do what he did in the 90's by building a foundation and not buying superstars just to fill the seats the bosses way.
Honestly you are taking a draft from 1992 and telling me he is a great drafter??? 24 YEARS AGO.. Wake the F up. His drafts are terrible.
In 24 years how many Mariano's and jeters have been drafted that answer is simple, zero ... How can you be good at drafts when they would trade them away for big names , and that's stienbreener' not cash.
How many other teams have won as many chips as cash did with the yanks, zero ... This is the first time that the stienbreener's are really letting him rebuild the roster with top prospects since 1992 and look how that turned out . We had a super dynasty, thanks to cash ... I wouldn't want any other gm . Cash is the man and I trust his rebuild .
Cashman didn't draft any of the Core 4 or their contemporaries. That was all the previous GM, forgetting his name right now.
Edit: Stick Michael
During Michael's tenure as general manager, the Yankees drafted or signed such notable players as Mariano Rivera, Andy Pettitte, Derek Jeter, Jorge Posada (collectively known as the Core Four), and others. Further, he traded popular prospect Roberto Kelly for Paul O'Neill,
Oh ok thanks ! I wasn't sure if he was the one or not but I still trust cash ... Man Michael rocked it ... Did the boss fire him?
http://www.espn.com/blog/buster-olney/in...
fitzfarm wrote:H1AND1 wrote:fitzfarm wrote:BigRedDog wrote:fitzfarm wrote:BigRedDog wrote:EnySpree wrote:Cashman is a hall of fame executive.... he fires out and gets it done. No matter what the organization wants to do he goes out and gets it done. He moved a 39 year old free agent to be for a killer package. He got a killer package for a top free agent reliever that might even end up resigning with the Yankees this winter. He also got the adequate compensation for arguably the best closer in the game.... all in just a couple days. He's a beast.What the heck r u smoking? His drafts have been terrible. Who has he drafted that did anything over the past 10 yrs? His free agent signings the past 5 yrs stunk. Ellsbury 7yrs at his age??? when they already had Gardner. Signing over the hill players for long term contracts. Look how the Red Sox built up their farm system compared to the Yanks. Also Yanks farm much improved after these trades but no way near #1. Maybe top 5-10. Cashman making 3 good trades doesn't erase all the crap he has done.
uh correct me if I'm wrong but didn't cash draft the greatest yankee of all time in baseball jesus (jeter), also posada,andy p, and ravera
lets also not forget that he has worked under the control freaks that are the owners and has not been fired yet, thats a amazing feat in itself. i think now that the boss is dead he is finally allowed to do what he did in the 90's by building a foundation and not buying superstars just to fill the seats the bosses way.
Honestly you are taking a draft from 1992 and telling me he is a great drafter??? 24 YEARS AGO.. Wake the F up. His drafts are terrible.
In 24 years how many Mariano's and jeters have been drafted that answer is simple, zero ... How can you be good at drafts when they would trade them away for big names , and that's stienbreener' not cash.
How many other teams have won as many chips as cash did with the yanks, zero ... This is the first time that the stienbreener's are really letting him rebuild the roster with top prospects since 1992 and look how that turned out . We had a super dynasty, thanks to cash ... I wouldn't want any other gm . Cash is the man and I trust his rebuild .
Cashman didn't draft any of the Core 4 or their contemporaries. That was all the previous GM, forgetting his name right now.
Edit: Stick Michael
During Michael's tenure as general manager, the Yankees drafted or signed such notable players as Mariano Rivera, Andy Pettitte, Derek Jeter, Jorge Posada (collectively known as the Core Four), and others. Further, he traded popular prospect Roberto Kelly for Paul O'Neill,Oh ok thanks ! I wasn't sure if he was the one or not but I still trust cash ... Man Michael rocked it ... Did the boss fire him?
Actually, I think he simply retired. Dont remember any problems with Steinbrenner or anything. But I could be wrong about that. He certainly hit it out of the park though during his tenure. Set up the team for years!
More than restocking, I think the message is they need to clear the deck and stop playing the game the Knicks have played for years - thinking they are just one piece away from making it happen.
I'm not a Yankee fan, but I respect what Cashman has been able to do. They've had a great run, but the momentum has sort of petered out.
franco12 wrote:I didn't realize a handful of baseball prospects transformed an entire farm system overnight!More than restocking, I think the message is they need to clear the deck and stop playing the game the Knicks have played for years - thinking they are just one piece away from making it happen.
I'm not a Yankee fan, but I respect what Cashman has been able to do. They've had a great run, but the momentum has sort of petered out.
Yeah, the similarities struck me too. I guess they went from an average to a top farm system. It might be like an NBA team adding 3 lottery picks.
EnySpree wrote:BigRedDog wrote:EnySpree wrote:EnySpree wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:EnySpree wrote:Cashman is a hall of fame executive.... he fires out and gets it done. No matter what the organization wants to do he goes out and gets it done. He moved a 39 year old free agent to be for a killer package. He got a killer package for a top free agent reliever that might even end up resigning with the Yankees this winter. He also got the adequate compensation for arguably the best closer in the game.... all in just a couple days. He's a beast.Well, the team has been disappointing for a long time. Maybe that's on the Steinbrenners and not Cashman, or maybe both. We don't really know for sure. If that's entirely on the Steinbrenners and Cashman really is great, then I hope they stay a mile away from all future decisions. This is an exciting and shocking new direction!
He just does what his bosses want and does it well. They may or may not listen to him, but whatever is going on, if the Steinbrenners or the brain trust or whoever wants something to happen Cashman makes it happen and then some.
Reposting this for BigRedDog
Doesn't explain his terrible drafting record or the fact that they can't teach pitching in the minor leagues. GM's responsibility. Severino comes up with one pitch, a fastball. What the hell are they teaching in the minors???
So you mad at Cashman or the minor league coaches?
Both. But its Cashman's job to see that the Yankee farm system can't develop pitchers and fix it. He needs to make sweeping changes in how they teach, draft and develop these young pitchers. Why is it that the Cardinals and Dodgers keep drafting and developing these young pitchers over the years and we get nothing??? Its how they draft and teach them through the minor leagues.
Cash has been with the Yankees since 1986 and got the head gig in 1998. There has been numerous times ownership has gone over his head and moved on deals without his approval.
This happens a lot in sports but fans usually just put it all on the GM. Cash reminds me of Scott Layden, a bright guy whose owner drove the direction of the team. In many ways, so does yankee ownership.
You think ownership does not have a say in $250,000,000 contracts? Especially one with a last name of "Steinbrenner"?
Media has said these deals put the Yanks minor system in the top 5 in baseball. No guarantee this brings success. In baseball small moves really do add up as minor league talent is the base for everything. Its the base to make trades.
To Brian's credit, he has been part of the process since 1986 and at a very young age distinguished himself. Im not sure what if any there was a watershed decision but he rose in the same time the Core Four were constructed.
Steinbrenners erratic GM list.
Gabe Paul 1973 to 1977
Cedric Tallis 1977 to 1979
Gene Michael 1979 to 1980
Cedric Tallis and Bill Bergesch 1980 to 1983
Murray Cook 1983 to 1984
Bill Bergesch and Clyde King 1984
Clyde King 1984 to 1986
Woody Woodward 1986 to 1987
Lou Piniella 1987 to 1988
Bob Quinn 1988 to 1989
Syd Thrift 1989
Bob Quinn 1989
Harding Peterson and George Bradley 1989 to 1990
Gene Michael 1990 to 1995
Bob Watson 1995 to 1998
Brian Cashman 1998 to Present
Credit goes to the scouts, operations guys and the minor league coach's that got that core together.
These were no starphuck picks either. Jeter broke the minor league error record his first year. They let him play and saw the potential.
Also, Jeters greatness was never gaudy statistics, it was "winning". The guy had the clutch gene.
The Post Roid Era has been tough for the Yankees. In my opinion, they were very much among the worst offenders going back. Paul O'neals tantrums and Scott Brocious becoming "Mike Schmidt" upon his arrival, and leaving with one year and 7 million left on his contract when PED's were getting outlawed are small bits of evidence. Tino's power surge? Chili Davis power surge at his age? Long list. Yanks were far from the only offenders.
My take is on an even playing field, and one where now taxation over the ceiling is pretty substantial its time for the Yankees to build from within. Nothing wrong with waiting to sign Bryce Harper or other starphuchs, but you gotta have a core to build on, and a core to make trades.
I understand it's a business, but for me, I felt like I wasn't represented as a fan anymore. There was no reason to invest my time and my heart in a team that I knew would fail by the end of the season. Instead of getting upset, I just stopped watching and following my team that I had grown up watching from the 70's.
All that said, I am now once again very excited about the Yankees. It's about freaking time! However, I am not giving Cashman any props for ten years of crappy baseball and starphuck failures.