Knicks · OT: Yankees Fire Sale (page 3)

Finally!! But I'm not giving Cashman any props for being 10 years late to the party. I haven't watched a single game in 10 years having watched every single game of the season in prior years. It became absurdly clear to me, the rabbit fan, that when baseball clamped down on amphetamines, 'greenies', that the Yankees model for success was now obsolete and an aging veteran team could no longer sustain a long season or deep run in the playoffs. If I understood this it is a certainty that the Yankees understood this as well, yet they stayed on the same path signing aging stars to ridiculous contracts to sell tickets.

I understand it's a business, but for me, I felt like I wasn't represented as a fan anymore. There was no reason to invest my time and my heart in a team that I knew would fail by the end of the season. Instead of getting upset, I just stopped watching and following my team that I had grown up watching from the 70's.

All that said, I am now once again very excited about the Yankees. It's about freaking time! However, I am not giving Cashman any props for ten years of crappy baseball and starphuck failures.

Rookie wrote:Finally!! But I'm not giving Cashman any props for being 10 years late to the party. I haven't watched a single game in 10 years having watched every single game of the season in prior years. It became absurdly clear to me, the rabbit fan, that when baseball clamped down on amphetamines, 'greenies', that the Yankees model for success was now obsolete and an aging veteran team could no longer sustain a long season or deep run in the playoffs. If I understood this it is a certainty that the Yankees understood this as well, yet they stayed on the same path signing aging stars to ridiculous contracts to sell tickets.

I understand it's a business, but for me, I felt like I wasn't represented as a fan anymore. There was no reason to invest my time and my heart in a team that I knew would fail by the end of the season. Instead of getting upset, I just stopped watching and following my team that I had grown up watching from the 70's.

All that said, I am now once again very excited about the Yankees. It's about freaking time! However, I am not giving Cashman any props for ten years of crappy baseball and starphuck failures.

You didn't watch the 2009 world series?

Nalod wrote:

Rookie wrote:Finally!! But I'm not giving Cashman any props for being 10 years late to the party. I haven't watched a single game in 10 years having watched every single game of the season in prior years. It became absurdly clear to me, the rabbit fan, that when baseball clamped down on amphetamines, 'greenies', that the Yankees model for success was now obsolete and an aging veteran team could no longer sustain a long season or deep run in the playoffs. If I understood this it is a certainty that the Yankees understood this as well, yet they stayed on the same path signing aging stars to ridiculous contracts to sell tickets.

I understand it's a business, but for me, I felt like I wasn't represented as a fan anymore. There was no reason to invest my time and my heart in a team that I knew would fail by the end of the season. Instead of getting upset, I just stopped watching and following my team that I had grown up watching from the 70's.

All that said, I am now once again very excited about the Yankees. It's about freaking time! However, I am not giving Cashman any props for ten years of crappy baseball and starphuck failures.

You didn't watch the 2009 world series?

Oh wait, yes thanks for the reminder, yes I did. I stand corrected.

Nalod wrote:Has anyone won more than 5 chips over the last 25 years?

Cash has been with the Yankees since 1986 and got the head gig in 1998. There has been numerous times ownership has gone over his head and moved on deals without his approval.
This happens a lot in sports but fans usually just put it all on the GM. Cash reminds me of Scott Layden, a bright guy whose owner drove the direction of the team. In many ways, so does yankee ownership.
You think ownership does not have a say in $250,000,000 contracts? Especially one with a last name of "Steinbrenner"?

Media has said these deals put the Yanks minor system in the top 5 in baseball. No guarantee this brings success. In baseball small moves really do add up as minor league talent is the base for everything. Its the base to make trades.

To Brian's credit, he has been part of the process since 1986 and at a very young age distinguished himself. Im not sure what if any there was a watershed decision but he rose in the same time the Core Four were constructed.
Steinbrenners erratic GM list.

Gabe Paul 1973 to 1977
Cedric Tallis 1977 to 1979
Gene Michael 1979 to 1980
Cedric Tallis and Bill Bergesch 1980 to 1983
Murray Cook 1983 to 1984
Bill Bergesch and Clyde King 1984
Clyde King 1984 to 1986
Woody Woodward 1986 to 1987
Lou Piniella 1987 to 1988
Bob Quinn 1988 to 1989
Syd Thrift 1989
Bob Quinn 1989
Harding Peterson and George Bradley 1989 to 1990
Gene Michael 1990 to 1995
Bob Watson 1995 to 1998
Brian Cashman 1998 to Present

Credit goes to the scouts, operations guys and the minor league coach's that got that core together.
These were no starphuck picks either. Jeter broke the minor league error record his first year. They let him play and saw the potential.
Also, Jeters greatness was never gaudy statistics, it was "winning". The guy had the clutch gene.

The Post Roid Era has been tough for the Yankees. In my opinion, they were very much among the worst offenders going back. Paul O'neals tantrums and Scott Brocious becoming "Mike Schmidt" upon his arrival, and leaving with one year and 7 million left on his contract when PED's were getting outlawed are small bits of evidence. Tino's power surge? Chili Davis power surge at his age? Long list. Yanks were far from the only offenders.
My take is on an even playing field, and one where now taxation over the ceiling is pretty substantial its time for the Yankees to build from within. Nothing wrong with waiting to sign Bryce Harper or other starphuchs, but you gotta have a core to build on, and a core to make trades.

100% agree with everything you posted ! the roid era took over baseball for a while. Derrick "baseball Jesus" jeter is the most clutch player I've ever seen!!! that play vs Oakland in the playoffs will forever be ingrained in my brain as the greatest clutch play in the history of Yankee baseball.

Also thanks for posting all the gm's man the boss was pretty crazy in 80's so many gm's !

Lastly go yanks!!!! I trust cash can build another core !

Sanchise
Bird
Judge
Frazier

Is a great start!!

Rookie wrote:Finally!! But I'm not giving Cashman any props for being 10 years late to the party. I haven't watched a single game in 10 years having watched every single game of the season in prior years. It became absurdly clear to me, the rabbit fan, that when baseball clamped down on amphetamines, 'greenies', that the Yankees model for success was now obsolete and an aging veteran team could no longer sustain a long season or deep run in the playoffs. If I understood this it is a certainty that the Yankees understood this as well, yet they stayed on the same path signing aging stars to ridiculous contracts to sell tickets.

I understand it's a business, but for me, I felt like I wasn't represented as a fan anymore. There was no reason to invest my time and my heart in a team that I knew would fail by the end of the season. Instead of getting upset, I just stopped watching and following my team that I had grown up watching from the 70's.

All that said, I am now once again very excited about the Yankees. It's about freaking time! However, I am not giving Cashman any props for ten years of crappy baseball and starphuck failures.

Yeah, I feel the same way. He inherited a great time in the late 90s and let that team run its course. The past 12 or 14 years, considering how much financial freedom the team had, the results have been OK but not great. The past 5 or so years, the results have been bad. Now is all that the result of the Steinbrenner family interfering and Cashman is great when given freedom? I know some will say that. I have no idea.

Nalod wrote:

Rookie wrote:Finally!! But I'm not giving Cashman any props for being 10 years late to the party. I haven't watched a single game in 10 years having watched every single game of the season in prior years. It became absurdly clear to me, the rabbit fan, that when baseball clamped down on amphetamines, 'greenies', that the Yankees model for success was now obsolete and an aging veteran team could no longer sustain a long season or deep run in the playoffs. If I understood this it is a certainty that the Yankees understood this as well, yet they stayed on the same path signing aging stars to ridiculous contracts to sell tickets.

I understand it's a business, but for me, I felt like I wasn't represented as a fan anymore. There was no reason to invest my time and my heart in a team that I knew would fail by the end of the season. Instead of getting upset, I just stopped watching and following my team that I had grown up watching from the 70's.

All that said, I am now once again very excited about the Yankees. It's about freaking time! However, I am not giving Cashman any props for ten years of crappy baseball and starphuck failures.

You didn't watch the 2009 world series?

Holy crap I forgot they were in the 2009 World Series!

I'm in Rookie's camp overall. I got sick of the way the Yankees did business sometime around 2005 or 2006, hated ARod, and barely paid attention for the past 10-12 years. I'd love to get excited about a Yankees team again. Honestly, my interest in the entire sport has been very low since then. I used to go to about 20 games a year and watch a bunch more and follow the score every day.

crzymdups wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Rookie wrote:Finally!! But I'm not giving Cashman any props for being 10 years late to the party. I haven't watched a single game in 10 years having watched every single game of the season in prior years. It became absurdly clear to me, the rabbit fan, that when baseball clamped down on amphetamines, 'greenies', that the Yankees model for success was now obsolete and an aging veteran team could no longer sustain a long season or deep run in the playoffs. If I understood this it is a certainty that the Yankees understood this as well, yet they stayed on the same path signing aging stars to ridiculous contracts to sell tickets.

I understand it's a business, but for me, I felt like I wasn't represented as a fan anymore. There was no reason to invest my time and my heart in a team that I knew would fail by the end of the season. Instead of getting upset, I just stopped watching and following my team that I had grown up watching from the 70's.

All that said, I am now once again very excited about the Yankees. It's about freaking time! However, I am not giving Cashman any props for ten years of crappy baseball and starphuck failures.

You didn't watch the 2009 world series?

Holy crap I forgot they were in the 2009 World Series!

I'm in Rookie's camp overall. I got sick of the way the Yankees did business sometime around 2005 or 2006, hated ARod, and barely paid attention for the past 10-12 years. I'd love to get excited about a Yankees team again. Honestly, my interest in the entire sport has been very low since then. I used to go to about 20 games a year and watch a bunch more and follow the score every day.

yeah ... my interest has pretty much vanished over the last number of years.

Arod did not help, did not like the CC signing, did not like the Texeira signing. None of them lived up to their contracts. Also, the 1996 team was a real team with core homegrowns not adopted expensive brats.

This decade they have lead the league in gate attendance, made playoffs or wild card 4 times, won 88 games last year.
If Bird plays like he did last year, and Aroid, as well as the starting pitching came together, this team would with the bull pen would have been a very good 95 win team.
But they are not, so they decide to finally throw in the towel.

Some of you really are being quite harsh over Two bad seasons since the 2009 season. We have the benefit of hindsight to say "Told you", but this team this season needed to play it out to see if they could rebuild and still sort of contend. They can't. Its time.

But to say this team has gone on an on for YEARS is a bit of an overstatement. Sure we all saw it coming, but so has Cashman. Ownership finally gave the stamp of approval and he has made a nice start to the transition. He had to wait unti now and teams that want to contend NOW paid a high price. That could not have happened sooner.

So they gotta dominate every year or you won't watch?

Dominate? The team hasn't even won a playoff game since 2011. To most fans, the media, and objective outsiders, this has been a pretty bad 5 year stretch. People expect more from the team with the most financial resources in the league.

EnySpree wrote:So they gotta dominate every year or you won't watch?

Nope, I like the direction the team is going in now. Just don't understand why it took so long. I can get behind a rebuilding process that centers around developing home grown players and being the Yankees, you know they will fill in the roster with impact players, except this time with younger impact players. We should be in good shape by the 2018 FA class comes available. We will have shed some big salary aging players and we have created a clear path to the majors for our farm system. I am very happy the Yankees have finally caught up with the times.

Rookie wrote:

EnySpree wrote:So they gotta dominate every year or you won't watch?

Nope, I like the direction the team is going in now. Just don't understand why it took so long. I can get behind a rebuilding process that centers around developing home grown players and being the Yankees, you know they will fill in the roster with impact players, except this time with younger impact players. We should be in good shape by the 2018 FA class comes available. We will have shed some big salary aging players and we have created a clear path to the majors for our farm system. I am very happy the Yankees have finally caught up with the times.

Exactly

What took so long?
Two year post season drought.
Do you break up a team that just made playoffs, even though they got swept (Detroit)?
With the salaries on the books, you can't move those guys.
Made it to one game playoff last year. Team still did real well.
Leads league in attendance. Makes money, fans excited, Arod returned, etc........
We all want 100 win seasons, but its not always there.
Waited soooo long?

Nalod wrote:What took so long?
Two year post season drought.
Do you break up a team that just made playoffs, even though they got swept (Detroit)?
With the salaries on the books, you can't move those guys.
Made it to one game playoff last year. Team still did real well.
Leads league in attendance. Makes money, fans excited, Arod returned, etc........
We all want 100 win seasons, but its not always there.
Waited soooo long?

But who gave out all those bad contracts?

Nalod wrote:What took so long?
Two year post season drought.
Do you break up a team that just made playoffs, even though they got swept (Detroit)?
With the salaries on the books, you can't move those guys.
Made it to one game playoff last year. Team still did real well.
Leads league in attendance. Makes money, fans excited, Arod returned, etc........
We all want 100 win seasons, but its not always there.
Waited soooo long?

When arod walked away from talks after he opted out then Hank made a deal behind the scenes for him to come back that was a low point for me as a Yankee fan. I can't stand arod. The last decade they got away from building from within and doing all the smart things they did when they won 4 times in 5 years in the late 90's early 00's. I subsequent to lost interest big time in the team and baseball in general and I used to watch every game. Maybe I'm a bad fan. But I was not interested in chasing every big name mercenary out there. I'd rather see building from within and bringing up young guys though the system. That heightens my enjoyment of the team and the game. Maybe I'm nuts. Anyway glad to see they have seemingly gotten smart. A solid farm system plus smart signings to bolster the team is a dream scenario for any GM/team. Let's hope this is the start of getting back to that.

Bonn1997 wrote:I still can't believe this actually happened. It was long overdue. I don't know a lot about these prospects but apparently we have a top 5 and maybe even the top farm system now according to the articles I'm reading. This was incredible work by Cashman and the Yankees. I hope they're actually keeping these kids to try to build for the long-term and not planning to use them in a starphuck. I was hoping McCann and other vets could be moved too but this was still a better job than I could have asked for. Any thoughts on this board?

Per ESPN:

Winner: New York Yankees -- They turned Andrew Miller, Aroldis Chapman and Beltran into top-50 prospects Gleyber Torres and Clint Frazier, a top-75 prospect in Justus Sheffield and Dillon Tate, the fourth overall pick of last year's draft. A middle-of-the-pack farm system is now probably in the top five. Great job by GM Brian Cashman in turning two relievers and a designated hitter into young talent with plenty of upside -- exactly what the aging and mediocre Yankees needed to do.

Sorry if the mods don't want this here. Not many people were posting in the Yankees thread.

The Miller trade was awful, way to good of a pitcher to let him go for that

The team faded because the Yankees decided they didn't want to pay the luxury tax (read: The Steinbrenners want to make more money). They had a good season last year and made the wild card game, but didn't really make a strong push last season. Now they've got a better farm system and will bring money off the books so they can be profitable between now and when they get a chance to sign free agents again.

Jmpasq wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:I still can't believe this actually happened. It was long overdue. I don't know a lot about these prospects but apparently we have a top 5 and maybe even the top farm system now according to the articles I'm reading. This was incredible work by Cashman and the Yankees. I hope they're actually keeping these kids to try to build for the long-term and not planning to use them in a starphuck. I was hoping McCann and other vets could be moved too but this was still a better job than I could have asked for. Any thoughts on this board?

Per ESPN:

Winner: New York Yankees -- They turned Andrew Miller, Aroldis Chapman and Beltran into top-50 prospects Gleyber Torres and Clint Frazier, a top-75 prospect in Justus Sheffield and Dillon Tate, the fourth overall pick of last year's draft. A middle-of-the-pack farm system is now probably in the top five. Great job by GM Brian Cashman in turning two relievers and a designated hitter into young talent with plenty of upside -- exactly what the aging and mediocre Yankees needed to do.

Sorry if the mods don't want this here. Not many people were posting in the Yankees thread.

The Miller trade was awful, way to good of a pitcher to let him go for that

Eh, I think 1 inning pitchers tend to be overrated. I don't think you need 3 guys who can be ace closers, not when you have no offense.

y2zipper wrote:The team faded because the Yankees decided they didn't want to pay the luxury tax (read: The Steinbrenners want to make more money). They had a good season last year and made the wild card game, but didn't really make a strong push last season. Now they've got a better farm system and will bring money off the books so they can be profitable between now and when they get a chance to sign free agents again.

They wont be profitable because no one is paying those ticket prices for this crap

Bonn1997 wrote:

Nalod wrote:What took so long?
Two year post season drought.
Do you break up a team that just made playoffs, even though they got swept (Detroit)?
With the salaries on the books, you can't move those guys.
Made it to one game playoff last year. Team still did real well.
Leads league in attendance. Makes money, fans excited, Arod returned, etc........
We all want 100 win seasons, but its not always there.
Waited soooo long?

But who gave out all those bad contracts?

The process that runs the Yankees. Owners set the budget and the expectations. They won in 2009, then made the playoffs each of the next three years.
Im not defending the process, but they also run an entertainment business and they milked rivera and Jeters departures and the drama that went with that.
Also, they led the league in attendance every year. Im only explaining the team from a financial aspect and have to look at every team at the time, not in hindsight with all the bravado of "They should tear it down!!!". Every team that is not in full contention should do that!!!!
Like I said, the beginning of this year you have some things in place that did not warrant a fire sale. And, BTW, you get better value from contenders right before the deadline than off season.
Bonn, your a bit naïve to the power of the GM. He fulfills his owners directive. If the team is on the brink of "Winning now", you go for it. We had a decent starting line up that had the a trio of closers in the bull pen to back them up. But, we don't have the bats. How do I know? Cuz its August.

I do think Cashman picked a good time to do what few yankee teams do, sell players for pospects!!
And I think the Yankees played it out REASONABLY.

Texiera expected to announce his retirement after this season today.