Knicks · OT: Yankees Fire Sale (page 4)
Nalod wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Nalod wrote:What took so long?
Two year post season drought.
Do you break up a team that just made playoffs, even though they got swept (Detroit)?
With the salaries on the books, you can't move those guys.
Made it to one game playoff last year. Team still did real well.
Leads league in attendance. Makes money, fans excited, Arod returned, etc........
We all want 100 win seasons, but its not always there.
Waited soooo long?
But who gave out all those bad contracts?The process that runs the Yankees. Owners set the budget and the expectations. They won in 2009, then made the playoffs each of the next three years.
Im not defending the process, but they also run an entertainment business and they milked rivera and Jeters departures and the drama that went with that.
Also, they led the league in attendance every year. Im only explaining the team from a financial aspect and have to look at every team at the time, not in hindsight with all the bravado of "They should tear it down!!!". Every team that is not in full contention should do that!!!!
Like I said, the beginning of this year you have some things in place that did not warrant a fire sale. And, BTW, you get better value from contenders right before the deadline than off season.
Bonn, your a bit naïve to the power of the GM. He fulfills his owners directive. If the team is on the brink of "Winning now", you go for it. We had a decent starting line up that had the a trio of closers in the bull pen to back them up. But, we don't have the bats. How do I know? Cuz its August.I do think Cashman picked a good time to do what few yankee teams do, sell players for pospects!!
And I think the Yankees played it out REASONABLY.
I think Bonn is referring to the signing of aging players to long term contracts and not to any kind of fire sale. Bonn also makes a good point about the need for three ace closers when the team has no run production.
Bonn1997 wrote:Jmpasq wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:I still can't believe this actually happened. It was long overdue. I don't know a lot about these prospects but apparently we have a top 5 and maybe even the top farm system now according to the articles I'm reading. This was incredible work by Cashman and the Yankees. I hope they're actually keeping these kids to try to build for the long-term and not planning to use them in a starphuck. I was hoping McCann and other vets could be moved too but this was still a better job than I could have asked for. Any thoughts on this board?Per ESPN:
Winner: New York Yankees -- They turned Andrew Miller, Aroldis Chapman and Beltran into top-50 prospects Gleyber Torres and Clint Frazier, a top-75 prospect in Justus Sheffield and Dillon Tate, the fourth overall pick of last year's draft. A middle-of-the-pack farm system is now probably in the top five. Great job by GM Brian Cashman in turning two relievers and a designated hitter into young talent with plenty of upside -- exactly what the aging and mediocre Yankees needed to do.Sorry if the mods don't want this here. Not many people were posting in the Yankees thread.
The Miller trade was awful, way to good of a pitcher to let him go for that
Eh, I think 1 inning pitchers tend to be overrated. I don't think you need 3 guys who can be ace closers, not when you have no offense.
Moneyball types in MLB would tend to agree. Unless you have an all time great type (ie. Mariano Rivera).....most closers/set-up guys tend to come and go. The reason is that Teams have figured out that you can convert a Starter with good stuff to a reliever (ie...Miller who began his career as a starter). A starter generally needs 2 Plus pitches (ie Fastball, Slider etc) and 1-2 Serviceable other pitches to keep batters honest throughout turns in the Lineup. A Short Relief pitcher needs only 1 Plus pitch and 1-2 other serviceable pitches.
foosballnick wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Jmpasq wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:I still can't believe this actually happened. It was long overdue. I don't know a lot about these prospects but apparently we have a top 5 and maybe even the top farm system now according to the articles I'm reading. This was incredible work by Cashman and the Yankees. I hope they're actually keeping these kids to try to build for the long-term and not planning to use them in a starphuck. I was hoping McCann and other vets could be moved too but this was still a better job than I could have asked for. Any thoughts on this board?Per ESPN:
Winner: New York Yankees -- They turned Andrew Miller, Aroldis Chapman and Beltran into top-50 prospects Gleyber Torres and Clint Frazier, a top-75 prospect in Justus Sheffield and Dillon Tate, the fourth overall pick of last year's draft. A middle-of-the-pack farm system is now probably in the top five. Great job by GM Brian Cashman in turning two relievers and a designated hitter into young talent with plenty of upside -- exactly what the aging and mediocre Yankees needed to do.Sorry if the mods don't want this here. Not many people were posting in the Yankees thread.
The Miller trade was awful, way to good of a pitcher to let him go for that
Eh, I think 1 inning pitchers tend to be overrated. I don't think you need 3 guys who can be ace closers, not when you have no offense.Moneyball types in MLB would tend to agree. Unless you have an all time great type (ie. Mariano Rivera).....most closers/set-up guys tend to come and go. The reason is that Teams have figured out that you can convert a Starter with good stuff to a reliever (ie...Miller who began his career as a starter). A starter generally needs 2 Plus pitches (ie Fastball, Slider etc) and 1-2 Serviceable other pitches to keep batters honest throughout turns in the Lineup. A Short Relief pitcher needs only 1 Plus pitch and 1-2 other serviceable pitches.
Im blown away by what trading Beltran bought in return!!!!
Nalod wrote:foosballnick wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Jmpasq wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:I still can't believe this actually happened. It was long overdue. I don't know a lot about these prospects but apparently we have a top 5 and maybe even the top farm system now according to the articles I'm reading. This was incredible work by Cashman and the Yankees. I hope they're actually keeping these kids to try to build for the long-term and not planning to use them in a starphuck. I was hoping McCann and other vets could be moved too but this was still a better job than I could have asked for. Any thoughts on this board?Per ESPN:
Winner: New York Yankees -- They turned Andrew Miller, Aroldis Chapman and Beltran into top-50 prospects Gleyber Torres and Clint Frazier, a top-75 prospect in Justus Sheffield and Dillon Tate, the fourth overall pick of last year's draft. A middle-of-the-pack farm system is now probably in the top five. Great job by GM Brian Cashman in turning two relievers and a designated hitter into young talent with plenty of upside -- exactly what the aging and mediocre Yankees needed to do.Sorry if the mods don't want this here. Not many people were posting in the Yankees thread.
The Miller trade was awful, way to good of a pitcher to let him go for that
Eh, I think 1 inning pitchers tend to be overrated. I don't think you need 3 guys who can be ace closers, not when you have no offense.Moneyball types in MLB would tend to agree. Unless you have an all time great type (ie. Mariano Rivera).....most closers/set-up guys tend to come and go. The reason is that Teams have figured out that you can convert a Starter with good stuff to a reliever (ie...Miller who began his career as a starter). A starter generally needs 2 Plus pitches (ie Fastball, Slider etc) and 1-2 Serviceable other pitches to keep batters honest throughout turns in the Lineup. A Short Relief pitcher needs only 1 Plus pitch and 1-2 other serviceable pitches.
Im blown away by what trading Beltran bought in return!!!!
I think it was easy for Cashman to ask for these team to bend over because that's what all these other clubs do the Yanks. Still shocked at the haul we got too.
Nalod wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Nalod wrote:What took so long?
Two year post season drought.
Do you break up a team that just made playoffs, even though they got swept (Detroit)?
With the salaries on the books, you can't move those guys.
Made it to one game playoff last year. Team still did real well.
Leads league in attendance. Makes money, fans excited, Arod returned, etc........
We all want 100 win seasons, but its not always there.
Waited soooo long?
But who gave out all those bad contracts?The process that runs the Yankees. Owners set the budget and the expectations. They won in 2009, then made the playoffs each of the next three years.
Im not defending the process, but they also run an entertainment business and they milked rivera and Jeters departures and the drama that went with that.
Also, they led the league in attendance every year. Im only explaining the team from a financial aspect and have to look at every team at the time, not in hindsight with all the bravado of "They should tear it down!!!". Every team that is not in full contention should do that!!!!
Like I said, the beginning of this year you have some things in place that did not warrant a fire sale. And, BTW, you get better value from contenders right before the deadline than off season.
Bonn, your a bit naïve to the power of the GM. He fulfills his owners directive. If the team is on the brink of "Winning now", you go for it. We had a decent starting line up that had the a trio of closers in the bull pen to back them up. But, we don't have the bats. How do I know? Cuz its August.I do think Cashman picked a good time to do what few yankee teams do, sell players for pospects!!
And I think the Yankees played it out REASONABLY.
I don't think we're even disagreeing actually. Yes, the Yankees were very profitable, and I honestly don't know how much power Cashman had. Regardless, the results of the past 5 years have been disappointing, and I agree with Rookie's comments that it took too long to rebuild. Maybe it didn't take too long from their financial perspective (thought that is arguable). But I'm writing as a fan who wants wins, not a fan who wants to just pour money into the Steinbrenners' accounts.
Bonn1997 wrote:Nalod wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Nalod wrote:What took so long?
Two year post season drought.
Do you break up a team that just made playoffs, even though they got swept (Detroit)?
With the salaries on the books, you can't move those guys.
Made it to one game playoff last year. Team still did real well.
Leads league in attendance. Makes money, fans excited, Arod returned, etc........
We all want 100 win seasons, but its not always there.
Waited soooo long?
But who gave out all those bad contracts?The process that runs the Yankees. Owners set the budget and the expectations. They won in 2009, then made the playoffs each of the next three years.
Im not defending the process, but they also run an entertainment business and they milked rivera and Jeters departures and the drama that went with that.
Also, they led the league in attendance every year. Im only explaining the team from a financial aspect and have to look at every team at the time, not in hindsight with all the bravado of "They should tear it down!!!". Every team that is not in full contention should do that!!!!
Like I said, the beginning of this year you have some things in place that did not warrant a fire sale. And, BTW, you get better value from contenders right before the deadline than off season.
Bonn, your a bit naïve to the power of the GM. He fulfills his owners directive. If the team is on the brink of "Winning now", you go for it. We had a decent starting line up that had the a trio of closers in the bull pen to back them up. But, we don't have the bats. How do I know? Cuz its August.I do think Cashman picked a good time to do what few yankee teams do, sell players for pospects!!
And I think the Yankees played it out REASONABLY.
I don't think we're even disagreeing actually. Yes, the Yankees were very profitable, and I honestly don't know how much power Cashman had. Regardless, the results of the past 5 years have been disappointing, and I agree with Rookie's comments that it took too long to rebuild. Maybe it didn't take too long from their financial perspective (thought that is arguable). But I'm writing as a fan who wants wins, not a fan who wants to just pour money into the Steinbrenners' accounts.
My point was the team was not "Losing" per se and the fact the contracts of Arod, Tex and CC, amoung some others sort of dictated a full rebuild could not happen unless you can dump them. ANd they were not really able to do that. So instead of just floundering, they made an effort.
By doing so they constructed a bull pen that yielded great return on investment. Even Beltran was a great asset. Thus, and my point is that even outside of profits, this was the time to do it. My proof? The team was still a wild card participant last year.
Do you really rebuild when you have a roster of Arod, Jeter, Rivara, CC, etc etc??? Would it really have worked to have Jeters final season or two be a rebuilding disaster? Rivera? And with those contracts, rebuilding is not as easy as said. Its not like we had the prospects either.
If Severino and perhaps Tanaka pitched to what is expected, and Arod does something relevant given his play last year, its not crazy to have thought this year they might still compete. My point is the rebuild was not that long over do. Now they can not only raise some prospects but also have money for some players as well. Timing has to be right.
Bonn1997 wrote:They're not even going to let A-Rod play in the final week of his 22 year career?! That's not classy.
Not even really an A-Rod fan but I agree. If they are dumb enough to believe they have a shot at the
Playoffs, do they really think he gives them that worse a shot?
Allanfan20 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:They're not even going to let A-Rod play in the final week of his 22 year career?! That's not classy.Not even really an A-Rod fan but I agree. If they are dumb enough to believe they have a shot at the
Playoffs, do they really think he gives them that worse a shot?
Have you seen his numbers since last Aug. 1 (2015).
He isn't his career.
He is who is he right now.
if he does i wonder what his apologists would say then?
Knickoftime wrote:Allanfan20 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:They're not even going to let A-Rod play in the final week of his 22 year career?! That's not classy.Not even really an A-Rod fan but I agree. If they are dumb enough to believe they have a shot at the
Playoffs, do they really think he gives them that worse a shot?Have you seen his numbers since last Aug. 1 (2015).
He isn't his career.
He is who is he right now.
Never said he wasn't. They could have given him 2 extra starts though and if he's playing like trash, pull him by the 5th.
dk7th wrote:it was a nice night for him, goodbye, good luck.... and good riddance. a-rod is mentally ill. he was a cheater and a liar and mostly a failure as a yankee. just another malignant narcissist who worked in new york, like dinglebury, dolan, isiah thomas. now i can start watching my beloved yanks again. there's a rumor he has an eye for talent. i dunno. if he has a good eye for talent he can help the yankees in a real way but i would not be at all shocked if he pursued those other 4 home runs with another squad.if he does i wonder what his apologists would say then?
If he wants to play and a team wants him, why should anyone have a problem with that?
Allanfan20 wrote:Knickoftime wrote:Allanfan20 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:They're not even going to let A-Rod play in the final week of his 22 year career?! That's not classy.Not even really an A-Rod fan but I agree. If they are dumb enough to believe they have a shot at the
Playoffs, do they really think he gives them that worse a shot?Have you seen his numbers since last Aug. 1 (2015).
He isn't his career.
He is who is he right now.
Never said he wasn't. They could have given him 2 extra starts though and if he's playing like trash, pull him by the 5th.
I agree but I guess they still feel they can win the wild card and then win something meaningful in the playoffs. I can't see why else they wouldn't play him.
Bonn1997 wrote:dk7th wrote:it was a nice night for him, goodbye, good luck.... and good riddance. a-rod is mentally ill. he was a cheater and a liar and mostly a failure as a yankee. just another malignant narcissist who worked in new york, like dinglebury, dolan, isiah thomas. now i can start watching my beloved yanks again. there's a rumor he has an eye for talent. i dunno. if he has a good eye for talent he can help the yankees in a real way but i would not be at all shocked if he pursued those other 4 home runs with another squad.if he does i wonder what his apologists would say then?
If he wants to play and a team wants him, why should anyone have a problem with that?
okay we have your answer. doesn't change the fact that he is an asterisked player like sosa (no habla ingles), maguire (i am not here to talk about the past), bonds (whatever dude but please don't look at my pumpkin head), palmeiro and giambi.
Nice result of the fire sale for sure. Hope it is an christening of the Yankees entering a new prosperous time. They have
some great great young players that can help to turn this team around. And the fire sale might not be done. (e.g. Hicks, Gardner, etc.)
earthmansurfer wrote:Wow, you guys see/hear that Austin and Judge homered back to back in their first MLB at bad? Never done before in MLB history.
Nice result of the fire sale for sure. Hope it is an christening of the Yankees entering a new prosperous time. They have
some great great young players that can help to turn this team around. And the fire sale might not be done. (e.g. Hicks, Gardner, etc.)
I didn't know it was back to back in their first at-bats. Wow! If they go on to reach greatness with the Yankees, that would be a story-book beginning to their careers.