meloshouldgo wrote:He has an opinion like everyone else. Don't like it, don't read it. No need to attack his projected future behavior.
thanks for that. i appreciate it, meloshouldgo.
Knickoftime wrote:dk7th wrote:if that ever happens you will find me to be intellectually honest and acknowledge it. i have no ulterior motive when i critique players.
Fair enough.
What's your primary motive?
you mean what is my motive for critiquing a player? sharing my impressions with fellow students of the game. is that what you're asking?
dk7th wrote:Knickoftime wrote:dk7th wrote:if that ever happens you will find me to be intellectually honest and acknowledge it. i have no ulterior motive when i critique players.
Fair enough.
What's your primary motive?
you mean what is my motive for critiquing a player? sharing my impressions with fellow students of the game. is that what you're asking?
So you're more of a critic and not a fan, right? And are you going to do this after every game (I suspect only the games Rose and/or Jennings play poorly).
dk7th wrote:Knickoftime wrote:dk7th wrote:if that ever happens you will find me to be intellectually honest and acknowledge it. i have no ulterior motive when i critique players.
Fair enough.
What's your primary motive?
you mean what is my motive for critiquing a player? sharing my impressions with fellow students of the game. is that what you're asking?
There was no hidden meaning. You answered my questions.
Your OP didn't seem very scholarly if intended for students. It struck me as intended to incite and suceeded in doing so, but maybe that's me.
On the student front what I've learned observing the game is that whether on a multi-year or year contract, not to expect most nba players to replicate the same performance on a nightly basis and that one game, even a first game, does not serve as reliable guideline to exactly what kind of year they will have.
That is not to say either will have a good season, I've just learned not to try to draw too many conclusions from the first one.
Welpee wrote:dk7th wrote:Knickoftime wrote:dk7th wrote:if that ever happens you will find me to be intellectually honest and acknowledge it. i have no ulterior motive when i critique players.
Fair enough.
What's your primary motive?
you mean what is my motive for critiquing a player? sharing my impressions with fellow students of the game. is that what you're asking?
So you're more of a critic and not a fan, right? And are you going to do this after every game (I suspect only the games Rose and/or Jennings play poorly).
i don't know what your definition of "fan" is but i regard myself as a fan. i cheer at games, i curse at the television, i participate in game threads. in fact, you can get an idea of my take on things by participating in game threads. see you there.
dk7th wrote:Welpee wrote:dk7th wrote:Knickoftime wrote:dk7th wrote:if that ever happens you will find me to be intellectually honest and acknowledge it. i have no ulterior motive when i critique players.
Fair enough.
What's your primary motive?
you mean what is my motive for critiquing a player? sharing my impressions with fellow students of the game. is that what you're asking?
So you're more of a critic and not a fan, right? And are you going to do this after every game (I suspect only the games Rose and/or Jennings play poorly).
i don't know what your definition of "fan" is but i regard myself as a fan. i cheer at games, i curse at the television, i participate in game threads. in fact, you can get an idea of my take on things by participating in game threads. see you there.
between the single mindedness of his threads or sentences like the above I do think its possible dk7th is a robot. Maybe like a semi retarded Ultron. Like one of the ones that Tony couldnt get to work.
fishmike wrote:nyk4ever wrote:this threadUNACCEPTABLE
this guy has zero clue but we have been seeing this for years now.It was Rose's 2nd live action of the year. He was sloppy with the ball but you also got a glimpse of his ability to get to the rim and how it can help us. When KP learns to follow his drives and we space the floor better for kick outs those attacks to the basket will be gold. It takes time, but you can see some really like to talk alot about things they have no clue about. This is a follow up because DK looked like an idiot in the Rose thread. Typical.
Love how Rose can still get to the rim and finish. Haven't had someone like that since Lin and the record has reflected it
gunsnewing wrote:fishmike wrote:nyk4ever wrote:this threadUNACCEPTABLE
this guy has zero clue but we have been seeing this for years now.It was Rose's 2nd live action of the year. He was sloppy with the ball but you also got a glimpse of his ability to get to the rim and how it can help us. When KP learns to follow his drives and we space the floor better for kick outs those attacks to the basket will be gold. It takes time, but you can see some really like to talk alot about things they have no clue about. This is a follow up because DK looked like an idiot in the Rose thread. Typical.
Love how Rose can still get to the rim and finish. Haven't had someone like that since Lin and the record has reflected it
Guns... imagine a very few simple things happening
Rose doesnt turn it over 8 times. He returns to normalcy there.
KP learns to follow Rose to the rim every time where he cleans up and puts back (Noah did this for years, esp the MVP season). Easiest points in the NBA.
Every Knick can handle the ball, so think about how fast this guy is... Rose coming around curls and making triangle cuts to get passes. Than its explode to the rim or dump it to the bigman if his man helps..
Point is you can see how much Rose can open up for this team. He can really make things easy, and he's won a lot of games in the league at 27 years old. 27 is young. We have a chance to get really lucky here. Regardless he's an impact player and a one man fast break.
He's just getting started! When was the last time we had a player who could penetrate like that?
People focus on the negatives. You can see that many of Rose's misses can be good misses if we are crashing the boards. We just need to get in snych, know who's diving and who's spotting up... things like that.
As for Jennings he will settle down. He's a home run hitter. Lots of strike outs and ugly swings but when he gets hot look out. In the meantime he needs to take care of the ball on one end and pressure it on the other. Nobody expects Gary Payton, but he's fast enough to stay in front of his man, get his hands on balls and draw a charge. I have hopes he comes around. He's got a lot to prove and he gets off on getting others involved. He wants to see KP and guys dunking on the other team. We know Jennings can play. Does he hit here? Can he be what we need?
Can we give these guys a chance to work things out? God remember after the Houston game?
Looking forward to Saturday 
dk7th wrote:Knickoftime wrote:dk7th wrote:Knickoftime wrote:dk7th wrote:if that ever happens you will find me to be intellectually honest and acknowledge it. i have no ulterior motive when i critique players.
Fair enough.
What's your primary motive?
you mean what is my motive for critiquing a player? sharing my impressions with fellow students of the game. is that what you're asking?
There was no hidden meaning. You answered my questions.
Your OP didn't seem very scholarly if intended for students. It struck me as intended to incite and suceeded in doing so, but maybe that's me.
On the student front what I've learned observing the game is that whether on a multi-year or year contract, not to expect most nba players to replicate the same performance on a nightly basis and that one game, even a first game, does not serve as reliable guideline to exactly what kind of year they will have.
That is not to say either will have a good season, I've just learned not to try to draw too many conclusions from the first one.
it's you
Okay. I'll take you at your word.
In that case, "unacceptable" means you won't accept it.
If you continue to watch, that means you have.
fishmike wrote:dk7th wrote:Welpee wrote:dk7th wrote:Knickoftime wrote:dk7th wrote:if that ever happens you will find me to be intellectually honest and acknowledge it. i have no ulterior motive when i critique players.
Fair enough.
What's your primary motive?
you mean what is my motive for critiquing a player? sharing my impressions with fellow students of the game. is that what you're asking?
So you're more of a critic and not a fan, right? And are you going to do this after every game (I suspect only the games Rose and/or Jennings play poorly).
i don't know what your definition of "fan" is but i regard myself as a fan. i cheer at games, i curse at the television, i participate in game threads. in fact, you can get an idea of my take on things by participating in game threads. see you there.
between the single mindedness of his threads or sentences like the above I do think its possible dk7th is a robot. Maybe like a semi retarded Ultron. Like one of the ones that Tony couldnt get to work.
He's not half as amusing as a semi retarded Ultron. Let's take a short review, shall we?
1) the Trade was the worst thing to happen to the franchise and Denver was going to be the new logo for the league because of it.
2) Melo was never going to be anything more than a uni-dimensional ball hogging dinosaur who would NEVER increase his assist level or be anything more than a waste of space on defense.
3) Paul Pierce is greater in the clutch than Melo.
4) Bill Russell only played for the love of the game, and money never entered his thoughts, ala Wilt Chamberlain.
5) Derrick Rose is as good as a convicted, despicable dirtbag and should not be allowed to wear the jersey.
The list will be sure to continue, everyone.
Enjoy the scholarship, don't just expect any retractions or coherent arguments supporting any new list items.
fishmike wrote:dk7th wrote:Welpee wrote:dk7th wrote:Knickoftime wrote:dk7th wrote:if that ever happens you will find me to be intellectually honest and acknowledge it. i have no ulterior motive when i critique players.
Fair enough.
What's your primary motive?
you mean what is my motive for critiquing a player? sharing my impressions with fellow students of the game. is that what you're asking?
So you're more of a critic and not a fan, right? And are you going to do this after every game (I suspect only the games Rose and/or Jennings play poorly).
i don't know what your definition of "fan" is but i regard myself as a fan. i cheer at games, i curse at the television, i participate in game threads. in fact, you can get an idea of my take on things by participating in game threads. see you there.
between the single mindedness of his threads or sentences like the above I do think its possible dk7th is a robot. Maybe like a semi retarded Ultron. Like one of the ones that Tony couldnt get to work.
The guy started participating in game threads because he was called out for not watching games. His observations didn't match what was happening on the court. The same thing happened in his old stomping ground. He has new villains to demonize now. At least it is a break from Melo bashing.
looks like a few ignored posters contributions have managed to torpedo the thread. i hope they were sound basketball contributions and not slanderous personal attacks. were they, martin?
gunsnewing wrote:fishmike wrote:nyk4ever wrote:this threadUNACCEPTABLE
this guy has zero clue but we have been seeing this for years now.It was Rose's 2nd live action of the year. He was sloppy with the ball but you also got a glimpse of his ability to get to the rim and how it can help us. When KP learns to follow his drives and we space the floor better for kick outs those attacks to the basket will be gold. It takes time, but you can see some really like to talk alot about things they have no clue about. This is a follow up because DK looked like an idiot in the Rose thread. Typical.
Love how Rose can still get to the rim and finish. Haven't had someone like that since Lin and the record has reflected it
trouble is that finishing at the rim has to be at a 60% or higher clip or you end up hurting the team. last i checked, rose has been finishing at the rim at closer to 50%, which is a very bad sign.
DK, typing "UNACCEPTABLE" probably wasn't a great idea after one game. I know you aren't fans of either player, they have given you good reasons over the years not to, but you have to give them time before posting something like that in all caps.
If the title had been "Rose and Jennings, much room for improvement" and pointed out those areas, I doubt you would have gotten so much grief. I hate to use a "Hinkieism" but this season will be a process with all the new players, new coach, newish system. Hitting them hard the way you did after game one is going to get you some pushback.
I posted in this thread because I know that hyperbole aside, you were trying to start a conversation, not trolling. You might consider the way you critique players. After the very caustic things you have written about Anthony over the years, some posters are having a hard time telling if this is Melo all over again.
GustavBahler wrote:DK, typing "UNACCEPTABLE" probably wasn't a great idea after one game. I know you aren't fans of either player, they have given you good reasons over the years not to, but you have to give them time before posting something like that in all caps. If the title had been "Rose and Jennings, much room for improvement" and pointed out those areas, I doubt you would have gotten so much grief. I hate to use a "Hinkieism" but this season will be a process with all the new players, new coach, newish system. Hitting them hard the way you did after game one is going to get you some pushback.
I posted in this thread because I know that hyperbole aside, you were trying to start a conversation, not trolling. You might consider the way you critique players. After the very caustic things you have written about Anthony over the years, some posters are having a hard time telling if this is Melo all over again.
point taken, thank you. my knicks' fandom may have gotten the better of me. that said, my guess is that those who are on my ignore list in this thread likely resorted to non-basketball posts centering around character assassination and slander, which i assume is against the rules of this forum. if they were capable of providing salient counterpoints they would not resort to these childish and often bitchy responses.
Here we go again with you. Making ridiculous statements in order to pad your unqualified opinion of a player. We get it, you hate Rose. You came out and said it endless times on trial threads. Said it after every turnover, missed shot, missed pre season game. We get it. Here is your chance to give up the trolling. Would you not agree he is top 5 fastest PG in league? Would you not agree it is the first time he has been healthy going into a season in over three years? Is he not the best Guard we have had in many many years? When was the last time you saw a knick guard get easy transition baskets? All things a real Knick fan would be happy about? Of course he needs to improve and get accustomed to his teammates. But that will take more than one game. Something I am sure your not willing to give him. As it would prove your original prediction of him wrong.
I would also add, what were our options at point guard:
1) Give Conley the richest contract in NBA history for 5 years IF he would even consider signing here?
2) Roll with Calderon and Grant for another season and wait on Westbrook (who extended) or Chris Paul (who is also somewhat injury prone and will be 32 next season) with no guarantee either is interested in coming here?
3) Get a better point guard than Rose in return for Lopez and Grant (would love for someone to identify who that player would be)?
4) Sign Rondo for two years?
Which of the options above would put us in a better situation than we're in now?
HofstraBBall wrote:Here we go again with you. Making ridiculous statements in order to pad your unqualified opinion of a player. We get it, you hate Rose. You came out and said it endless times on trial threads. Said it after every turnover, missed shot, missed pre season game. We get it. Here is your chance to give up the trolling. Would you not agree he is top 5 fastest PG in league? Would you not agree it is the first time he has been healthy going into a season in over three years? Is he not the best Guard we have had in many many years? When was the last time you saw a knick guard get easy transition baskets? All things a real Knick fan would be happy about? Of course he needs to improve and get accustomed to his teammates. But that will take more than one game. Something I am sure your not willing to give him. As it would prove your original prediction of him wrong.
the best point guards we had were jeremy lin and jason kidd. i don't like the friends he has, i don't like his choice in women or his treatment of them, and i don't like his sordid behavior. all true. as to his game, yeah i don't like his game either. if i did, i might be able to see past his off-court stuff. he doesn't defend at all, he takes too many shots. this has always been his game and where he remains flawed. so i don't see much upside and it is tiresome to hear how much his praises are sung. most advanced statistical models place him as basically no better than a bench player in terms of effectiveness. his drpm underscores this and his overall rpm remains below the league average. and this is with the bulls allowing rose to be rose.
i took a quick glance at this article when i googled rose vorp-- it is pretty sobering stuff:
http://perimeterplayers.com/2016/10/derr...
because it is the ultimate team game, the issue will remain: does rose play "alongside" others, or "with" others or "for" others?
Welpee wrote:I would also add, what were our options at point guard:1) Give Conley the richest contract in NBA history for 5 years IF he would even consider signing here?
2) Roll with Calderon and Grant for another season and wait on Westbrook (who extended) or Chris Paul (who is also somewhat injury prone and will be 32 next season) with no guarantee either is interested in coming here?
3) Get a better point guard than Rose in return for Lopez and Grant (would love for someone to identify who that player would be)?
4) Sign Rondo for two years?
Which of the options above would put us in a better situation than we're in now?
for me it has never been about this year. jackson has a longer arc of development than that, which is why he is preaching win games but don't win games at the expense of developing the team. that means not indulging players bad habits. hence rose is on a one-year contract with good reason-- he will likely not play well enough or evolve into enough of a player who plays both with and for others, as opposed to merely alongside others. playing alongside others means you don't make others better through your play-- in fact you make them worse. i don't have high expectations this year, because next summer the knicks will pursue a point guard in the draft to replace or displace rose and jennings. this point guard will likely be more in the ron harper/ricky rubio/george hill mold.
dk7th wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:Here we go again with you. Making ridiculous statements in order to pad your unqualified opinion of a player. We get it, you hate Rose. You came out and said it endless times on trial threads. Said it after every turnover, missed shot, missed pre season game. We get it. Here is your chance to give up the trolling. Would you not agree he is top 5 fastest PG in league? Would you not agree it is the first time he has been healthy going into a season in over three years? Is he not the best Guard we have had in many many years? When was the last time you saw a knick guard get easy transition baskets? All things a real Knick fan would be happy about? Of course he needs to improve and get accustomed to his teammates. But that will take more than one game. Something I am sure your not willing to give him. As it would prove your original prediction of him wrong.
the best point guards we had were jeremy lin and jason kidd. i don't like the friends he has, i don't like his choice in women or his treatment of them, and i don't like his sordid behavior. all true. as to his game, yeah i don't like his game either. if i did, i might be able to see past his off-court stuff. he doesn't defend at all, he takes too many shots. this has always been his game and where he remains flawed. so i don't see much upside and it is tiresome to hear how much his praises are sung. most advanced statistical models place him as basically no better than a bench player in terms of effectiveness. his drpm underscores this and his overall rpm remains below the league average. and this is with the bulls allowing rose to be rose.
i took a quick glance at this article when i googled rose vorp-- it is pretty sobering stuff:
http://perimeterplayers.com/2016/10/derr...
because it is the ultimate team game, the issue will remain: does rose play "alongside" others, or "with" others or "for" others?
Lin our best point guard? You just lost all credibility. But at least your motive for Melo and Rose hate is clear. Will admit Lin was the best 15 minutes of fame in NY Knick history. Had a great run for about 15 games. Which I guess to an advanced Stat/Basketball guy like you, equates to best ever? Makes sense, as you ruled on Rose after just one game. But your probably right, what do the Rockets, Lakers, Hornets know anyway. Lin's narrow court vision, suspect defense and horrible outside shooting is probably just all made up. He is just another low to mid level role player that can be replaced. No Derrick Rose. If he stays healthy, Rose will show his true ability.
