I consider this a very good thing that they're speaking up early. That they're trying to change the culture on D.
http://nypost.com/2016/11/01/knicks-defe...
AUBURN HILLS, Mich. — Joakim Noah wasn’t happy about the Knicks’ defensive posture to start the game. Neither was Derrick Rose, who even invoked the forbidden name of their former Bulls coach and defensive guru Tom Thibodeau in the locker room after a 102-89 loss to the Pistons at The Palace.The Knicks couldn’t defend at the start and couldn’t score at the finish. The Pistons rang up 64 first-half points and the Knicks’ rally fell short, going the final 5:40 without a point with Carmelo Anthony leading the frigid brigade. The Knicks finished the game on an 0-for-9, two-turnover schneid to fall to 1-2.
Rose implied the culture of defense has yet to be established by new coach Jeff Hornacek. When he was looking for a coach this summer, Knicks president Phil Jackson never reached out to Thibodeau, now running the Timberwolves.
“We got to do that,” Rose said when asked about the team having a defensive identity like the Bulls did during his years in Chicago. “I played on teams before Thibs got to Chicago. We didn’t have an identity. He came and changed the culture there and changed our identity. We can do that here. We have to and we’re going to do. But it takes time.”
Yeah, amen. The defense has looked terrible. Melo and KP look lost.
I mean, it's three new starters and a new coach. It's gonna take a minute.
But I really think team defense needs to be the focus right now.
It seems like coach Hornacek and Phil are very concerned with the offense and we haven't heard a peep about the D. We have enough talented guys who can score in this league. The defense needs to be the focus first, then add wrinkles to the offense.
We lost this game because we couldn't stop Caldwell-Pope, Harris and Morris. Their FG% are 63.6, 66.7 and and 64.3. The maddening part is that all 3 hit 3 pointers at a 66.7 clip. That's ridiculous.
I was surprised that Caldwell-Pope scored on Lee that easy. Hopefully, this is just a 1 game thing.
Morris just took it to Melo. I always thought the Morris twins had Melo's number but this is ridiculous. He did whatever he wanted to do. Melo needs to work a little harder on defense.
Harris took advantage of KP helping out. KP only had 1 block but he changed a lot of shots helping out. KPs teammates need to rotate when he tries to cover for others. How many times did we see an open player due to missed rotations last night.
Drummond and Ish were contained. Noah and Rose actually played them very well.
So IMHO, Melo and Lee were the culprits last night.
crzymdups wrote:Yeah, amen. The defense has looked terrible. Melo and KP look lost.I mean, it's three new starters and a new coach. It's gonna take a minute.
But I really think team defense needs to be the focus right now.
It seems like coach Hornacek and Phil are very concerned with the offense and we haven't heard a peep about the D. We have enough talented guys who can score in this league. The defense needs to be the focus first, then add wrinkles to the offense.
Hornacek has talked about the defense after every game. We've played 3 games guys and i think the defense will unfortunately be the last thing that comes and Melo will be the weak link for us on defense out of our starting 5 which showed last night when M.Morris was making him look kinda stupid. Also when the reporters went to talk to Noah they brought up to him that Rose talked about Thibs and Noah said that's the past and we don't need to worry about the past and worry about the now.
To be honest, if you really looked at it last night -- I thought Melo played pretty good D on Morris. Morris was just hot and made shots, esp. in that 1st half.. But I thought Melo was on him pretty good most of the time to be fair--on him close, moved his feet well on D, hands up/hands in his face on the release, etc.. Morris, incidently, has turned into a pretty good player. He's got a lot of Melo to his game offensively.
Finestrg wrote:To be honest, if you really looked at it last night -- I thought Melo played pretty good D on Morris. Morris was just hot and made shots, esp. in that 1st half.. But I thought Melo was on him pretty good most of the time to be fair--on him close, moved his feet well on D, hands up/hands in his face on the release, etc.. Morris, incidently, has turned into a pretty good player. He's got a lot of Melo to his game offensively.
Melo played him well last night..There were one lapse where he got an open three but overall Morris hit tough shots..Got to tip your hat to him...Pros get hot...
Finestrg wrote:To be honest, if you really looked at it last night -- I thought Melo played pretty good D on Morris. Morris was just hot and made shots, esp. in that 1st half.. But I thought Melo was on him pretty good most of the time to be fair--on him close, moved his feet well on D, hands up/hands in his face on the release, etc.. Morris, incidently, has turned into a pretty good player. He's got a lot of Melo to his game offensively.
I thought the same. I thought KP was non existant on D except when helping at the rim. I am not surprised he sat most of the 4th as he is the weakest link on the defensive end.
Finestrg wrote:To be honest, if you really looked at it last night -- I thought Melo played pretty good D on Morris. Morris was just hot and made shots, esp. in that 1st half.. But I thought Melo was on him pretty good most of the time to be fair--on him close, moved his feet well on D, hands up/hands in his face on the release, etc.. Morris, incidently, has turned into a pretty good player. He's got a lot of Melo to his game offensively.
same... and I see others saw as well. There was one nice drive he beat Melo off the dribble, and another where Melo didnt close fast enough, but I saw at least 4 shots that were BAD shots that Melo defended perfectly and they simply went in. Overall I thought Melo was very physical and contested the shots well, they just fell.... but the gist remains, the defense needs a LOT of work.
DEFENSE..REALLY, 25 teams are avg 100+ ppg, does that mean the entire leagues plays bad defense, were some where in the middle of the pack as far as points allowed.
We are 1 of 5 teams that cant even score a 100 points, and we don't rebound well, and for all the talk of kp's shooting, at 7 3' he's avg like 5 boards.
I don't even care so much about the overall defense, but there is no excuse for not hitting the boards, especially since we suck at shooting the rock, and cant score a 100 points.
fishmike wrote:Finestrg wrote:To be honest, if you really looked at it last night -- I thought Melo played pretty good D on Morris. Morris was just hot and made shots, esp. in that 1st half.. But I thought Melo was on him pretty good most of the time to be fair--on him close, moved his feet well on D, hands up/hands in his face on the release, etc.. Morris, incidently, has turned into a pretty good player. He's got a lot of Melo to his game offensively.
same... and I see others saw as well. There was one nice drive he beat Melo off the dribble, and another where Melo didnt close fast enough, but I saw at least 4 shots that were BAD shots that Melo defended perfectly and they simply went in. Overall I thought Melo was very physical and contested the shots well, they just fell.... but the gist remains, the defense needs a LOT of work.
And he only beat Melo cuz Melo overplayed him due to him knocking down those tough jumpers.
They both had a good battle going on against each other within the flow. If Morris misses those early tough shots then we probably win that game.
knicks1248 wrote:DEFENSE..REALLY, 25 teams are avg 100+ ppg, does that mean the entire leagues plays bad defense, were some where in the middle of the pack as far as points allowed.We are 1 of 5 teams that cant even score a 100 points, and we don't rebound well, and for all the talk of kp's shooting, at 7 3' he's avg like 5 boards.
I don't even care so much about the overall defense, but there is no excuse for not hitting the boards, especially since we suck at shooting the rock, and cant score a 100 points.
See, I'm more in this camp. This was not put together to be a great defensive team although we do have a few pretty good defensive components (Noah, Lance Thomas, maybe N'Dour and Plumlee eventually, KP should average 2 blocks a game, etc.). I think this team, as constructed, has potential to be a VERY DANGEROUS offensive team. Given our players top to bottom, this is the one area I'd like to see this team exploit to the fullest. Let's figure out how to be a real good offensive team--that's our strength--while also showing enough pride/giving enough effort on the defensive end (like we did last night in the 2nd half). But Goddamn, get this offense right. To see this team struggle mightily on the offensive end and not crack 100 points is beyond disappointing. All the ingredients are there to be a solid offensive team. Phil needs to step out of the way and let Jeff figure it out. And I agree on the rebounding--that's a concern too. Noah's probably our only standout rebounder and he may not be as good as once was. Then there's Melo who's always been a good rebounding 3, after that though...little else stands out. It would be nice to see KP dedicate himself to this area some more. Maybe incorporating Plumlee could help too. Part of me would like to see what it would look like with a defensive-minded constant in the middle at all times, Noah backed up by Plumlee. Maybe having a hard-nosed, tough defensive anchor in there at all times could help settle the defense and improve the rebounding. Then let KOQ/Willy battle it out for backup mins. at the 4 behind KP. I mean Plumlee did make the team, right? I wouldn't mind see that approach for a few games just to see. We'll always have enough offense on the floor where we could live with Noah or Plumlee out there at all times. Give Plumlee at little time too--he may not as bad offensively as some think.
knicks1248 wrote:DEFENSE..REALLY, 25 teams are avg 100+ ppg, does that mean the entire leagues plays bad defense, were some where in the middle of the pack as far as points allowed.We are 1 of 5 teams that cant even score a 100 points, and we don't rebound well, and for all the talk of kp's shooting, at 7 3' he's avg like 5 boards.
I don't even care so much about the overall defense, but there is no excuse for not hitting the boards, especially since we suck at shooting the rock, and cant score a 100 points.
11 teams have winning records in the NBA so far, 8 of them are holding the opposing teams to an average under 100 pts..So there might be something to defending and winning...
The Knicks know that they have to play solid D. They haven't really done that so far and it's partly due to a lack of chemistry and partly effort, which is inexcusable. Their rotations on D have not been good at times. To me it looks VERY fixable tho. Don't really think it's a situation where they CAN'T defend. They have the bodies to defend better. Just gotta tighten up what they're doing and stay connected.
nixluva wrote:The Knicks know that they have to play solid D. They haven't really done that so far and it's partly due to a lack of chemistry and partly effort, which is inexcusable. Their rotations on D have not been good at times. To me it looks VERY fixable tho. Don't really think it's a situation where they CAN'T defend. They have the bodies to defend better. Just gotta tighten up what they're doing and stay connected.
BUT there's just no way you can bring in 10 new players in, and try to teach them a defensive scheme and a difficult offense system like the triangle. you need to master one, then work on the other. Since were avg 96 ppg, I would think the offense is priority at this point
This article is writ ends to get us fans against each other. Chill
crzymdups wrote:Yeah, amen. The defense has looked terrible. Melo and KP look lost.I mean, it's three new starters and a new coach. It's gonna take a minute.
But I really think team defense needs to be the focus right now.
It seems like coach Hornacek and Phil are very concerned with the offense and we haven't heard a peep about the D. We have enough talented guys who can score in this league. The defense needs to be the focus first, then add wrinkles to the offense.
I thought I was the only one see how poorly Melo and KP played on defense. If the Knicks are going to do better then KP and Melo have to increase level of defense.
I can understand Noah calling out the defense since he is a great defender but Rose shouldnt talk about lack of defense lol
StarksEwing1 wrote:I can understand Noah calling out the defense since he is a great defender but Rose shouldnt talk about lack of defense lol
Rose has actually been pretty solid defensively. The PG spot is literally the toughest spot to defend. All the picks that are set make it extremely difficult to guard the position. He's actually been better than expected and NOTHING like what we used to have defensively IMO. In the NBA almost every night you have tough PG's to defend so it's one of the most talent rich positions.
nixluva wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:I can understand Noah calling out the defense since he is a great defender but Rose shouldnt talk about lack of defense lol
Rose has actually been pretty solid defensively. The PG spot is literally the toughest spot to defend. All the picks that are set make it extremely difficult to guard the position. He's actually been better than expected and NOTHING like what we used to have defensively IMO. In the NBA almost every night you have tough PG's to defend so it's one of the most talent rich positions.
Eh he has been ok I guess but that's not saying too much. He did make a great block in the Memphis game but other than that he isn't a good defender
StarksEwing1 wrote:I can understand Noah calling out the defense since he is a great defender but Rose shouldnt talk about lack of defense lol
Did you read the article?
CrushAlot wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:I can understand Noah calling out the defense since he is a great defender but Rose shouldnt talk about lack of defense lol
Did you read the article?
Yes I read the damn article. I'm just talking about in general Rose has had issues defensively. However I have given him credit when he has made nice plays like in the Memphis game. Jesus Christ almighty
