Briggs, any thoughts on Greg Monroe? Do you prefer R. Lopez now?
give this dude some time. He plays his heart out and that counts for a lot! We need to figure out how to use him; and he needs to find some offensive moves if teams ignore him
Weird this thread didn't happen after the game in Chicago.
I think Noah is good in small doses.
The problem to me is the lineup fit of Melo, KP, Noah - too slow along the frontline.
We saw the difference last night in putting Lee and Holiday out there at the 2 and 3 at the same time. The spacing improved on offense and the speed on defense.
It'll be matchup dependent and Noah shouldn't play more than 20 minutes unless he's going really good. Most of us accepted that coming into the season.
Bogut was a 20 minute a night center for the Warriors for the past seasons - but it worked. They miss him now.
KP has developed into a center at 7'3 it was only a matter of time, love Noah but it was a head scratcher to see Phil sign him when we all know kp is a up and coming center.
His contract is tradable... with the emergence of Willy the kid as the back up what are we to do with Noah
Next game we got Andre Drummond. Y'all really want to throw KP out there on Drummond? Detroit plays small ball, but with Drummond in the middle. It'll be interesting to see how Hornacek responds.
fitzfarm wrote:KP has developed into a center at 7'3 it was only a matter of time, love Noah but it was a head scratcher to see Phil sign him when we all know kp is a up and coming center. His contract is tradable... with the emergence of Willy the kid as the back up what are we to do with Noah
there a number of teams where Noah will come in handy for Knicks; rather have Noah than KP at center for Detroit, Miami, Memphis, probably the Celts with Horford, Clips, Lakers, Atlanta, Philly (embiid), Nets?, and so on
Any team playing a smaller lineup, or a smaller (as in strength and height) we should use KP at 5. JH has to figure this out, but i see it as an asset, and good point about Bogut above; we don't need major minutes from Noah for many teams
having said that, if someone traded good assets for Noah, we should strongly, strongly consider it with the emergence of Willy who will get better and better (not true for Noah)
crzymdups wrote:Weird this thread didn't happen after the game in Chicago.I think Noah is good in small doses.
The problem to me is the lineup fit of Melo, KP, Noah - too slow along the frontline.
We saw the difference last night in putting Lee and Holiday out there at the 2 and 3 at the same time. The spacing improved on offense and the speed on defense.
It'll be matchup dependent and Noah shouldn't play more than 20 minutes unless he's going really good. Most of us accepted that coming into the season.
Bogut was a 20 minute a night center for the Warriors for the past seasons - but it worked. They miss him now.
Why couldnt Noah do that? There will be games he doesnt play a ton... 12-15 minutes. Other games he will play 30+ based on matchups and need. I thin when we signed him everyone knew he wasnt a 35mpg game anymore.
crzymdups wrote:Next game we got Andre Drummond. Y'all really want to throw KP out there on Drummond? Detroit plays small ball, but with Drummond in the middle. It'll be interesting to see how Hornacek responds.
yea... the move KP to center movement is way premature. Also if we put him at the 5 against a guy like Drummond he becomes a jump shooter. KP's jumper is still feast/famine at this point.
fishmike wrote:crzymdups wrote:Weird this thread didn't happen after the game in Chicago.I think Noah is good in small doses.
The problem to me is the lineup fit of Melo, KP, Noah - too slow along the frontline.
We saw the difference last night in putting Lee and Holiday out there at the 2 and 3 at the same time. The spacing improved on offense and the speed on defense.
It'll be matchup dependent and Noah shouldn't play more than 20 minutes unless he's going really good. Most of us accepted that coming into the season.
Bogut was a 20 minute a night center for the Warriors for the past seasons - but it worked. They miss him now.
Why couldnt Noah do that? There will be games he doesnt play a ton... 12-15 minutes. Other games he will play 30+ based on matchups and need. I thin when we signed him everyone knew he wasnt a 35mpg game anymore.
Absolutely - I said that in my post. I think he's a good teammate, good leader, can be a great defensive presence if used correctly.
JH is still learning about the team. Now he has another trick to try if the Knicks are getting killed by a small ball matchup.
Holiday has been a godsend. I was high on the potential of him, but he's longer and rangier than I thought. Especially with Lance out with injuries, he's been really important and will continue to be. Hopefully Lance can come back healthy and then we'll really have a lot of options to play smaller and faster.
Chandler wrote:fitzfarm wrote:KP has developed into a center at 7'3 it was only a matter of time, love Noah but it was a head scratcher to see Phil sign him when we all know kp is a up and coming center. His contract is tradable... with the emergence of Willy the kid as the back up what are we to do with Noah
there a number of teams where Noah will come in handy for Knicks; rather have Noah than KP at center for Detroit, Miami, Memphis, probably the Celts with Horford, Clips, Lakers, Atlanta, Philly (embiid), Nets?, and so on
Any team playing a smaller lineup, or a smaller (as in strength and height) we should use KP at 5. JH has to figure this out, but i see it as an asset, and good point about Bogut above; we don't need major minutes from Noah for many teams
having said that, if someone traded good assets for Noah, we should strongly, strongly consider it with the emergence of Willy who will get better and better (not true for Noah)
Exactly. It's nice to have Noah for a few selected matchups but is that really worth $70 mil when you have limited cap space and a much weaker backcourt than frontcourt? I don't think it is.
fishmike wrote:crzymdups wrote:Next game we got Andre Drummond. Y'all really want to throw KP out there on Drummond? Detroit plays small ball, but with Drummond in the middle. It'll be interesting to see how Hornacek responds.
yea... the move KP to center movement is way premature. Also if we put him at the 5 against a guy like Drummond he becomes a jump shooter. KP's jumper is still feast/famine at this point.
exactly. plus when they play him at the 4 the other team sometimes put a smurf on him and he's developing that nice little move of catch it high and hit the short midrange with no resistance. AND his teammates are increasingly exploiting that mismatch.
we need to use KP and Noah wisely based on teams and matchups.
fishmike wrote:crzymdups wrote:Next game we got Andre Drummond. Y'all really want to throw KP out there on Drummond? Detroit plays small ball, but with Drummond in the middle. It'll be interesting to see how Hornacek responds.
yea... the move KP to center movement is way premature. Also if we put him at the 5 against a guy like Drummond he becomes a jump shooter. KP's jumper is still feast/famine at this point.
That is why it is nice to have KP, Noah, and Willy. You can give completely different looks. People act like Noah is useless now. There are some games where he will not be needed often and others where he will be. If you are playing KP 34 mpg, Noah 20 mpg on average, and Willy gives you 12 mpg at this point in his career, that takes up 66 of the 96 mins at the PF and Center positions. So you have up to 30 mpg where you can play Melo or Lance at the 4 and go small ball. Still plenty of minutes to go around to get different looks out there and play the way we did in the 2nd half last night. KOQ is the odd man out. Trade him this summer for a 2nd round pick.
Someone started a thread a few months before Noah was bought to NY, asking posters how they felt about bringing Noah to NY. My was response was only as a backup. I dont see the fiery Noah, the one who got in players faces. Who was always in a huddle with his teammates during games, getting everyone on the same page.
Its still early, if Noah is still is playing at this level by January, I would promote whoever is playing better that Noah, big contract or not. Earlier if it gets worse.
Noah said he understood why he was benched. He might not be as averse to coming off the bench as he was in Chicago.
GustavBahler wrote:Someone started a thread a few months before Noah was bought to NY, asking posters how they felt about bringing Noah to NY. My was response was only as a backup. I dont see the fiery Noah, the one who got in players faces. Who was always in a huddle with his teammates during games, getting everyone on the same page. Its still early, if Noah is still is playing at this level by January, I would promote whoever is playing better that Noah, big contract or not. Earlier if it gets worse.
Noah said he understood why he was benched. He might not be as averse to coming off the bench as he was in Chicago.
I think he understands the game has changed and he is not always going to be a good matchup for every team.
Noah is great and all but not worth 70 million, I know he's overpaid regardless how you want to dress it. I have seen enough of Porzingis at C and PF to know how dominating he is at C way more than at PF.
for context noah is being paid crabbe and turner money (both backups)
Chandler wrote:for context noah is being paid crabbe and turner money (both backups)
That is a great point. Plenty of backup rotation players are going to be making this type of money in the next couple of years. And big men traditionally get paid more in general. Biyombo was signed to this same type of contract as well, to be a backup in orlando and essentially do most of the things Noah is going to provide.
Knixkik wrote:Chandler wrote:for context noah is being paid crabbe and turner money (both backups)
That is a great point. Plenty of backup rotation players are going to be making this type of money in the next couple of years. And big men traditionally get paid more in general. Biyombo was signed to this same type of contract as well, to be a backup in orlando and essentially do most of the things Noah is going to provide.
and I think Noah is more valuable. He defends the post. He showed against Tor he can still be a vacuum on the boards with his 18 boards. He can still get you 5-6 assists in limited minutes. I still see him a great piece.
crzymdups wrote:fishmike wrote:crzymdups wrote:Weird this thread didn't happen after the game in Chicago.I think Noah is good in small doses.
The problem to me is the lineup fit of Melo, KP, Noah - too slow along the frontline.
We saw the difference last night in putting Lee and Holiday out there at the 2 and 3 at the same time. The spacing improved on offense and the speed on defense.
It'll be matchup dependent and Noah shouldn't play more than 20 minutes unless he's going really good. Most of us accepted that coming into the season.
Bogut was a 20 minute a night center for the Warriors for the past seasons - but it worked. They miss him now.
Why couldnt Noah do that? There will be games he doesnt play a ton... 12-15 minutes. Other games he will play 30+ based on matchups and need. I thin when we signed him everyone knew he wasnt a 35mpg game anymore.
Absolutely - I said that in my post. I think he's a good teammate, good leader, can be a great defensive presence if used correctly.
JH is still learning about the team. Now he has another trick to try if the Knicks are getting killed by a small ball matchup.
Holiday has been a godsend. I was high on the potential of him, but he's longer and rangier than I thought. Especially with Lance out with injuries, he's been really important and will continue to be. Hopefully Lance can come back healthy and then we'll really have a lot of options to play smaller and faster.
I had not seen enough of him that impressed me, but I remember reading on the Bull's realgm board after the trade and many fans there were really lamenting losing Holiday. I can see why now.
martin wrote:smackeddog wrote:I thought even if he'd lost a step he'd at least provide leadership, install a defensive mindset and passion on his team mates and help KP become a better defender- none of thats happened, which bothers me more than his decline (as I was expecting the decline)
same
10 games is enough to change a mindset and instill passion? I have already seen plenty of moments where he's gotten the squad fired up. He also cheers like maniac on the bench talks a ton to the young guys.
