Knicks · LeBron & Maverick Carter responds to Phil Jackson 'posse' reference... (page 5)

holfresh wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

holfresh wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

holfresh wrote:

VCoug wrote:I'm a white guy and I totally get where Lebron is coming from. I highly doubt that if Lebron's agent and business manager were 50 year old white guys that Phil would be referring to them as a "posse". And, for the record, here's what Phil thinks of as a posse:

Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/Rachel__Nichols/status/798637656603115520

Click here to view the Tweet

Ahh men..Don't tell me they going after Phil for this...But this kind of tells you this isn't really as innocent as we would like to believe..

I dont have a problem with that quote, Lebron was a teenager. But Lebron isn't a kid anymore. Phil is right about the dangers of keeping a large entourage, just have to watch ESPN's "Broke" as told by current and former players themselves. His biggest mistake IMO was underestimating LeBron's capacity for personal growth, and the level of maturity he already possesed at the time.

But he is making that statement again, recently, knowing the man he has matured into..

Its ok to say Tom Brady and his drunken posse getting on board a plane but not ok to say Lebron and his posse? Bottom line two way street--this was a non issue.

Let's clear something up...This isn't the first time LeBron and his crew have been referred as a posse..I'm sure I could find a multitude of articles saying that..But WHO is saying it is important and about whom..Phil Jackson is saying this about LeBron and his business partners...And has said it before in a more unflattering manner also described in a stereotypical way...Read it yourself..He said his posse will fetch cars and fetch girls for them..Who uses the word fetch in today's world...Phil Jackson is very astute and calculating as to exactly what he is saying....

I guess one could take it that way.

LeBron and his guys are both business partners as well as good buddies, they do business together, they go out and have fun together, they grew up together. If it was high noon and they were all walking into Nike headquarters to round out a sneaker deal, posse would seem strange to me and indeed a putdown. Those guys are all strolling to a club on the weekend, posse seems appropriate.

The context of what I think Phil was referring to seemed to be more of that later, his Mom was included in the reference.

Posse not the best choice of word? Sure. Such that LeBron felt the need to handle as he did? Dude should probably check in again with his marketing crew; if he wanted to show himself to be the bigger, smarter, better man he could have made very clear that he was displeased and also not throw down in such a way that divides.

martin wrote:

callmened wrote:i think its understandable for lebron and his friends to be offended but i think its wrong to imply that phil is a racist

when did the word posse become offensive? I just don't get that. There are a LOT of references and articles before this week that used the word Posse while referring to LeBron and his friends and never a word.

It is because Lebron was outed as needing Special treatment. Jax referenced a situation where "the King" wanted special treatment and implied maybe that is a reason why he left Miami.

Lebron re-acted by using the race card. Perhaps he is a little sensitive to being cited as needing special treatment.

The word "posse" is used everyday about any group of people. I have never heard of the Jamaican posse described in an earlier post. Again that is much later in history as compared to the word being used in the old west days. IN those days it actually meant good guys brought together to go after a bad guy.

pos·se
ˈpäsē/Submit
noun
UShistorical
a body of men, typically armed, summoned by a sheriff to enforce the law.
BRITISHhistorical
the body of men in a county whom the sheriff could summon to enforce the law.
noun: posse comitatus; plural noun: posse comitatus
informal
a group of people who have a common characteristic, occupation, or purpose.
"he pompously led around a posse of medical students"
synonyms: gang, band, group, crowd, pack, horde, herd, throng, mob, swarm, troop, cluster; More

Lebron is absolutely a great basketball player. His business "skills" are generated mostly because of his skills on the court. It remains to be seen if they have the same greatness. (EDIT) He is doing very well for himself so far.

From a coaching and GM/President view, a player whose needs are greater than others are not look upon favorably. Cav's were non too happy with Lebron at times in his first stint and Riles as well. Lebron has made his point many times that he is the one empowered with a franchise.
does that sit well with management at times? Likely not.
Has phil ever been "racist" in his career? if not, give him the benefit of the doubt.

total fail from Lebron. This is a case of how being sensitive drives a larger wedge between races rather than heal the divide. If you think Phil is a closet racist and your intent is to bring that out fine. Does anyone think that? Anyone?

What is Lebron's goal here? If its to bring the usage of certain words to light that they may no longer be appropriate than say that. Make a statement expressing yourself, saying WHY you dont like what was said, explain HOW that can be used to send a poor message or conjure poor images or whatever. Istead he tilts about it. All this accomplishes is it means Phil will do less interviews.

That being said was Lebron REALLY upset about this? Or is he just flopping?

holfresh wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

holfresh wrote:If Tom Brady had a group of friends he grew up with and they formed a business group and were successful as LeBron's group, they would never be referred to as a posse...Never..That's the difference..

so your definition of posse, is a bunch of thugged out black men...lol

So do you think Phil would refer to a group led by Tom Brady as a posse?

Agree that it was a poor choice of words and that it was deliberate. We all know Phil is a very smart guy and that he has a huge ego. There is something that seema to irk Phil about LB. Maybe he is not a fan of James because of talk he is better than Jordan. Or maybe he is jealous of his financial accomplishments? I don't know, but it was definately a jab from a jealous individual. Now was it racially motivated? Don't think anyone can say thathat for sure. But the problem is, when an intelligent guy says something like that, it will be perceived by many as such.

HofstraBBall wrote:

holfresh wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

holfresh wrote:If Tom Brady had a group of friends he grew up with and they formed a business group and were successful as LeBron's group, they would never be referred to as a posse...Never..That's the difference..

so your definition of posse, is a bunch of thugged out black men...lol

So do you think Phil would refer to a group led by Tom Brady as a posse?

Agree that it was a poor choice of words and that it was deliberate. We all know Phil is a very smart guy and that he has a huge ego. There is something that seema to irk Phil about LB. Maybe he is not a fan of James because of talk he is better than Jordan. Or maybe he is jealous of his financial accomplishments? I don't know, but it was definately a jab from a jealous individual. Now was it racially motivated? Don't think anyone can say thathat for sure. But the problem is, when an intelligent guy says something like that, it will be perceived by many as such.

deliberate implies intent. What are you saying Phil's intent was?

I seriously never ever reallized that posse was meant as derogatory to black people. I always thought it was used to describe any group of people, that could even be diverse. Hell, I am pretty sure I probably said it about Conor McGregor and his people as well.

Maybe LeBron wants people to think of his friends as more than just a posse because he wants him and his friends to be viewed as great businessmen. I can 100% understand that but don't use race as an excuse to get offended and just speak your mind about how you you want your friends to be viewed as.

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

holfresh wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

holfresh wrote:If Tom Brady had a group of friends he grew up with and they formed a business group and were successful as LeBron's group, they would never be referred to as a posse...Never..That's the difference..

so your definition of posse, is a bunch of thugged out black men...lol

So do you think Phil would refer to a group led by Tom Brady as a posse?

Agree that it was a poor choice of words and that it was deliberate. We all know Phil is a very smart guy and that he has a huge ego. There is something that seema to irk Phil about LB. Maybe he is not a fan of James because of talk he is better than Jordan. Or maybe he is jealous of his financial accomplishments? I don't know, but it was definately a jab from a jealous individual. Now was it racially motivated? Don't think anyone can say thathat for sure. But the problem is, when an intelligent guy says something like that, it will be perceived by many as such.

deliberate implies intent. What are you saying Phil's intent was?

Believe his intent was to make LeBron's business group seem less legitimate. But does he not also come out and call him selfish in the article? To me, Phil has shown,several times, that he is eager to let the world hear his opinion. No matter how, as an NBA executive, it would not be prudent to do so.

It is amazing to me that people who are so successful in life and achieve greatness and wealth are still so insecure.
It shows how psychological trauma inflicted on the huge group of society cannot be healed by anything but time.
And this takes a long long time.
Would it be better to never call up people just because they are sensitive?
Will this preferential treatment help them to finally fell secure?
Or they will still think world is just pretending to treat them fairly?
Will it corrupt them?
Any secure person in Lebron place will just ignored Phil or will juts reply that Phil's posse is a bunch of weirdos and punks...

Allanfan20 wrote:I seriously never ever reallized that posse was meant as derogatory to black people. I always thought it was used to describe any group of people, that could even be diverse. Hell, I am pretty sure I probably said it about Conor McGregor and his people as well.

Maybe LeBron wants people to think of his friends as more than just a posse because he wants him and his friends to be viewed as great businessmen. I can 100% understand that but don't use race as an excuse to get offended and just speak your mind about how you you want your friends to be viewed as.

I think there's too much thought on this. If Lebron doesn't like the word posse, speak to Phil about that. It's clear Phil was talking about his friends. It was a passing comment. If we could hear the audio i bet Phil was light and nonchalant like always. Posse is not a derogatory statement towards black people. That's ridiculous. Again if Lebron has a problem with Phil Jackson which is now clear to everyone, then maybe he should go speak to Phil, not try to make this more than it really needs to

fishmike wrote:total fail from Lebron. This is a case of how being sensitive drives a larger wedge between races rather than heal the divide. If you think Phil is a closet racist and your intent is to bring that out fine. Does anyone think that? Anyone?

What is Lebron's goal here? If its to bring the usage of certain words to light that they may no longer be appropriate than say that. Make a statement expressing yourself, saying WHY you dont like what was said, explain HOW that can be used to send a poor message or conjure poor images or whatever. Istead he tilts about it. All this accomplishes is it means Phil will do less interviews.
fo
That being said was Lebron REALLY upset about this? Or is he just flopping?

I believe they made a point of saying that they didnt believe that Phil is racist. Some of this is payback for Phil's passive aggressive comments over the years. No matter what else LeBron brings into this, at the center its about Phil not showing someone as accomplished as he is the proper respect IMO.

I dont remember Phil talking that way about Jordan, not that he never criticized him. LeBron is a very successful business man as well, much more successful than Phil. When he uses that expression to to describe grown men in their mid 30s, very successful men who have left that world far behind, it rubs LeBron and his team the wrong way.

Historically African Americans have fought an uphill battle for respect. Thats why its different than say Andrew Luck. LeBron went a little over the top with the criticism, but I see his point that he deserves more respect from Phil considering all he has achieved.

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:total fail from Lebron. This is a case of how being sensitive drives a larger wedge between races rather than heal the divide. If you think Phil is a closet racist and your intent is to bring that out fine. Does anyone think that? Anyone?

What is Lebron's goal here? If its to bring the usage of certain words to light that they may no longer be appropriate than say that. Make a statement expressing yourself, saying WHY you dont like what was said, explain HOW that can be used to send a poor message or conjure poor images or whatever. Istead he tilts about it. All this accomplishes is it means Phil will do less interviews.
fo
That being said was Lebron REALLY upset about this? Or is he just flopping?

I believe they made a point of saying that they didnt believe that Phil is racist. Some of this is payback for Phil's passive aggressive comments over the years. No matter what else LeBron brings into this, at the center its about Phil not showing someone as accomplished as he is the proper respect IMO.

I dont remember Phil talking that way about Jordan, not that he never criticized him. LeBron is a very successful business man as well, much more successful than Phil. When he uses that expression to to describe grown men in their mid 30s, very successful men who have left that world far behind, it rubs LeBron and his team the wrong way.

Historically African Americans have fought an uphill battle for respect. Thats why its different than say Andrew Luck. LeBron went a little over the top with the criticism, but I see his point that he deserves more respect from Phil considering all he has achieved.

Bringing the race card in became a powerful weapon to blackmail and destroy people.
To me it is just another dirty political tool.
Nothing honorable or constructive about it.
If we want to divide the society even more this is the way to go.

i think most people here think that the word "posse" wasn't a big deal (including myself). It might have been "dismissive" at worst but not OFFENSIVE or even RACIST

but what concerns me is folks here don't understand WHY LeBron is so sensitive. a lot of black people (not all) are upset, scared and on edge about the racial climate in this country. if this came up during some other time, he wouldn't care as much (he's been called worse). I just hope folks cut LeBron some slack for his emotional "outburst". that's not condoning his actions (implying that phil is a racist) but I hope people UNDERSTAND where hes coming from (a place of hurt, skeptism, fear etc)

again, when I first heard the phil quote, my wife and I were like WTFFF. why? cuz were emotional now! (i told the story of how we were watching family feud the other day. a man said "spain had the most beautiful looking people - our response was WTFFFFFFF. right now ANYTHING can send black people over the edge because were HIGHLY sensitive right now). after we cooled down, we concluded its not a big deal - probably a miscommunication and the 2 need to talk it out

#empathy - it hink this country needs more empathy to understand where another person is coming from, feeling etc. doesn't mean we need to agree - but just try to understand their point of view.

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

holfresh wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

holfresh wrote:If Tom Brady had a group of friends he grew up with and they formed a business group and were successful as LeBron's group, they would never be referred to as a posse...Never..That's the difference..

so your definition of posse, is a bunch of thugged out black men...lol

So do you think Phil would refer to a group led by Tom Brady as a posse?

Agree that it was a poor choice of words and that it was deliberate. We all know Phil is a very smart guy and that he has a huge ego. There is something that seema to irk Phil about LB. Maybe he is not a fan of James because of talk he is better than Jordan. Or maybe he is jealous of his financial accomplishments? I don't know, but it was definately a jab from a jealous individual. Now was it racially motivated? Don't think anyone can say thathat for sure. But the problem is, when an intelligent guy says something like that, it will be perceived by many as such.

deliberate implies intent. What are you saying Phil's intent was?

Believe his intent was to make LeBron's business group seem less legitimate. But does he not also come out and call him selfish in the article? To me, Phil has shown,several times, that he is eager to let the world hear his opinion. No matter how, as an NBA executive, it would not be prudent to do so.

really? I would love to understand how you bridged the gap from Phil commenting about Riley and how he managed Lebron's special needs to having intent to expose Lebron lack of legitimacy from a business standpoint. Why would Phil give 2 craps about Lebron's businesses? That had nothing to do with what he said.. it was all about Lebron's special treatment.

I get it... we have seen young black athletes essentially strike it rich and suddenly they travel and hang with an entourage of dudes from the old hood they bring around with them. That group could also have been referred to as a posse. Of course Lebron isnt just another poor kid from the hood who's made it big. He's the king and deserves to be treated as such. Waaaaaaa. Honestly do you see this as racially motivated?

I was disgusted yesterday. I dont listen to much talk sports etc, but yesterday I put the ESPN Kay show on (which I like from time to time) hoping for some chat on the nice Giant win or the KNicks and I got this topic

arkrud wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:total fail from Lebron. This is a case of how being sensitive drives a larger wedge between races rather than heal the divide. If you think Phil is a closet racist and your intent is to bring that out fine. Does anyone think that? Anyone?

What is Lebron's goal here? If its to bring the usage of certain words to light that they may no longer be appropriate than say that. Make a statement expressing yourself, saying WHY you dont like what was said, explain HOW that can be used to send a poor message or conjure poor images or whatever. Istead he tilts about it. All this accomplishes is it means Phil will do less interviews.
fo
That being said was Lebron REALLY upset about this? Or is he just flopping?

I believe they made a point of saying that they didnt believe that Phil is racist. Some of this is payback for Phil's passive aggressive comments over the years. No matter what else LeBron brings into this, at the center its about Phil not showing someone as accomplished as he is the proper respect IMO.

I dont remember Phil talking that way about Jordan, not that he never criticized him. LeBron is a very successful business man as well, much more successful than Phil. When he uses that expression to to describe grown men in their mid 30s, very successful men who have left that world far behind, it rubs LeBron and his team the wrong way.

Historically African Americans have fought an uphill battle for respect. Thats why its different than say Andrew Luck. LeBron went a little over the top with the criticism, but I see his point that he deserves more respect from Phil considering all he has achieved.

Bringing the race card in became a powerful weapon to blackmail and destroy people.
To me it is just another dirty political tool.
Nothing honorable or constructive about it.
If we want to divide the society even more this is the way to go.

Pot meet kettle.

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:total fail from Lebron. This is a case of how being sensitive drives a larger wedge between races rather than heal the divide. If you think Phil is a closet racist and your intent is to bring that out fine. Does anyone think that? Anyone?

What is Lebron's goal here? If its to bring the usage of certain words to light that they may no longer be appropriate than say that. Make a statement expressing yourself, saying WHY you dont like what was said, explain HOW that can be used to send a poor message or conjure poor images or whatever. Istead he tilts about it. All this accomplishes is it means Phil will do less interviews.
fo
That being said was Lebron REALLY upset about this? Or is he just flopping?

I believe they made a point of saying that they didnt believe that Phil is racist. Some of this is payback for Phil's passive aggressive comments over the years. No matter what else LeBron brings into this, at the center its about Phil not showing someone as accomplished as he is the proper respect IMO.

I dont remember Phil talking that way about Jordan, not that he never criticized him. LeBron is a very successful business man as well, much more successful than Phil. When he uses that expression to to describe grown men in their mid 30s, very successful men who have left that world far behind, it rubs LeBron and his team the wrong way.

Historically African Americans have fought an uphill battle for respect. Thats why its different than say Andrew Luck. LeBron went a little over the top with the criticism, but I see his point that he deserves more respect from Phil considering all he has achieved.

thats fair.. all good points, but the context was Lebron's special privileges and how Riley handled that. Are any of those people Lebron's superior? Because if none are, and Lebron is the figure head that means the rest ARE his posse, entourage, minions, underlings, etc... OR its a case of Lebron putting his business ventures before his NBA commitments and asking for special exceptions? Because after all, he is the king.

Lebron has all the respect he deserves. More probably as he's a flopper. This is him being a baby, which is well documented.

EnySpree wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:I seriously never ever reallized that posse was meant as derogatory to black people. I always thought it was used to describe any group of people, that could even be diverse. Hell, I am pretty sure I probably said it about Conor McGregor and his people as well.

Maybe LeBron wants people to think of his friends as more than just a posse because he wants him and his friends to be viewed as great businessmen. I can 100% understand that but don't use race as an excuse to get offended and just speak your mind about how you you want your friends to be viewed as.

I think there's too much thought on this. If Lebron doesn't like the word posse, speak to Phil about that. It's clear Phil was talking about his friends. It was a passing comment. If we could hear the audio i bet Phil was light and nonchalant like always. Posse is not a derogatory statement towards black people. That's ridiculous. Again if Lebron has a problem with Phil Jackson which is now clear to everyone, then maybe he should go speak to Phil, not try to make this more than it really needs to

Phil went to the press on numerous occasions talking about LeBron, what is wrong in LeBron responding using the same medium?

fishmike wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

fishmike wrote:total fail from Lebron. This is a case of how being sensitive drives a larger wedge between races rather than heal the divide. If you think Phil is a closet racist and your intent is to bring that out fine. Does anyone think that? Anyone?

What is Lebron's goal here? If its to bring the usage of certain words to light that they may no longer be appropriate than say that. Make a statement expressing yourself, saying WHY you dont like what was said, explain HOW that can be used to send a poor message or conjure poor images or whatever. Istead he tilts about it. All this accomplishes is it means Phil will do less interviews.
fo
That being said was Lebron REALLY upset about this? Or is he just flopping?

I believe they made a point of saying that they didnt believe that Phil is racist. Some of this is payback for Phil's passive aggressive comments over the years. No matter what else LeBron brings into this, at the center its about Phil not showing someone as accomplished as he is the proper respect IMO.

I dont remember Phil talking that way about Jordan, not that he never criticized him. LeBron is a very successful business man as well, much more successful than Phil. When he uses that expression to to describe grown men in their mid 30s, very successful men who have left that world far behind, it rubs LeBron and his team the wrong way.

Historically African Americans have fought an uphill battle for respect. Thats why its different than say Andrew Luck. LeBron went a little over the top with the criticism, but I see his point that he deserves more respect from Phil considering all he has achieved.

thats fair.. all good points, but the context was Lebron's special privileges and how Riley handled that. Are any of those people Lebron's superior? Because if none are, and Lebron is the figure head that means the rest ARE his posse, entourage, minions, underlings, etc... OR its a case of Lebron putting his business ventures before his NBA commitments and asking for special exceptions? Because after all, he is the king.

Lebron has all the respect he deserves. More probably as he's a flopper. This is him being a baby, which is well documented.

As I said in my first post in this thread, glad it happened. I know Phil can do both at the same time, but he's been here long enough without any concrete success to keep his comments about the league to himself. Not a good look talking about Riley, LeBron, any of them when you have really nothing to show for your time here as far as wins and losses. Phil is doing a great job of building for the future, but until the wins start coming, the playoffs start happening, Id be happier if he just kept quiet, especially since his comments about his peers arent often flattering. This incident aside.

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

holfresh wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

holfresh wrote:If Tom Brady had a group of friends he grew up with and they formed a business group and were successful as LeBron's group, they would never be referred to as a posse...Never..That's the difference..

so your definition of posse, is a bunch of thugged out black men...lol

So do you think Phil would refer to a group led by Tom Brady as a posse?

Agree that it was a poor choice of words and that it was deliberate. We all know Phil is a very smart guy and that he has a huge ego. There is something that seema to irk Phil about LB. Maybe he is not a fan of James because of talk he is better than Jordan. Or maybe he is jealous of his financial accomplishments? I don't know, but it was definately a jab from a jealous individual. Now was it racially motivated? Don't think anyone can say thathat for sure. But the problem is, when an intelligent guy says something like that, it will be perceived by many as such.

deliberate implies intent. What are you saying Phil's intent was?

Believe his intent was to make LeBron's business group seem less legitimate. But does he not also come out and call him selfish in the article? To me, Phil has shown,several times, that he is eager to let the world hear his opinion. No matter how, as an NBA executive, it would not be prudent to do so.

really? I would love to understand how you bridged the gap from Phil commenting about Riley and how he managed Lebron's special needs to having intent to expose Lebron lack of legitimacy from a business standpoint. Why would Phil give 2 craps about Lebron's businesses? That had nothing to do with what he said.. it was all about Lebron's special treatment.

I get it... we have seen young black athletes essentially strike it rich and suddenly they travel and hang with an entourage of dudes from the old hood they bring around with them. That group could also have been referred to as a posse. Of course Lebron isnt just another poor kid from the hood who's made it big. He's the king and deserves to be treated as such. Waaaaaaa. Honestly do you see this as racially motivated?

I was disgusted yesterday. I dont listen to much talk sports etc, but yesterday I put the ESPN Kay show on (which I like from time to time) hoping for some chat on the nice Giant win or the KNicks and I got this topic

I had a similar thought, this was more about Lebron not being able to defend his need for "special treatment".

Someone needs to inform the Insane Clown Posse, that their band name is actually a word used to describe a group of black people... smh

anyone reading my comments? just curious. lol

callmened wrote:i think most people here think that the word "posse" wasn't a big deal (including myself). It might have been "dismissive" at worst but not OFFENSIVE or even RACIST

but what concerns me is folks here don't understand WHY LeBron is so sensitive. a lot of black people (not all) are upset, scared and on edge about the racial climate in this country. if this came up during some other time, he wouldn't care as much (he's been called worse). I just hope folks cut LeBron some slack for his emotional "outburst". that's not condoning his actions (implying that phil is a racist) but I hope people UNDERSTAND where hes coming from (a place of hurt, skeptism, fear etc)

again, when I first heard the phil quote, my wife and I were like WTFFF. why? cuz were emotional now! (i told the story of how we were watching family feud the other day. a man said "spain had the most beautiful looking people - our response was WTFFFFFFF. right now ANYTHING can send black people over the edge because were HIGHLY sensitive right now). after we cooled down, we concluded its not a big deal - probably a miscommunication and the 2 need to talk it out

#empathy - it hink this country needs more empathy to understand where another person is coming from, feeling etc. doesn't mean we need to agree - but just try to understand their point of view.

He should be sensitive. So should you. The smaller half of America elected a man who openly looks down on your race. Literally. Women should feel exactly the same.

My problem is this type of behavior is counterproductive. Does this help race relations? Or does it establish an egg shells type culture where the wrong choice of words taken out of context has simply unfair repercussions? Here is a case where Lebron could have used this to illuminate how words can imply the lack of respect for accomplished men (as Gustav mentioned above), given Phil a pass and said "we need to look deeper at this stuff and continue to strive for change" etc etc.. instead it pushed more people away and accomplished exactly the opposite of what Lebron says he wants.