Knicks · LeBron & Maverick Carter responds to Phil Jackson 'posse' reference... (page 8)

callmened wrote:

martin wrote:

callmened wrote:

martin wrote:I am not at all trying to pretend that Phil wasn't trying to get under that skin. It's EXACTLY what he was doing. He was 100% pointing out that LeBron was getting special treatment. That was Phil's whole point. But inflammatory because of the use of the word posse? I find that a stretch.

Also, I am not presenting any type of plausible deniability. I am presenting different takes.

that's exactly it...and a sensitive LeBron (from the racial tension) interpreted that as something it wasnt

You know what would have been a great response from LeBron?

"You know, I don't really like the characterization of posse and would have preferred that Phil used a different term, these are both my business partners and friends and family and to me the word posse is a bit demeaning to me. But for real, me and my Cleveland Cavaliers posse are concentrating on repeating a championship so I don't worry about it too much and don't have too much time to put into the shit that comes out of Phil's mouth; Phil and his posse should spend more time worrying about getting over .500 and making it into the playoffs".

BAM

exactly. I think he went to far by saying "if he were white would that term be used?" but like I said, dude was emotionally hurt (especially during these recent events) + he's not a expertise in these things. he probably DID misinterpret it the wrong way because hes sensitive - and I really think he deserves a pass for that. but his response could've been better

yeah we get it, you think LeBron is the emotionally girly type

Dude is trying to portray his group (notices that I was being as PC as I could there) as a high level business team that should be respected... and his first response is an emotional one. That's not a good look and shows how far he has to go?

can you blame him, me or a lot of us black folk for feeling, acting, responding emotionally though?

im not saying its right and it could've been handled better. but I get it. I don't expect much from him since hes an athlete though. a politician or someone like that - sure I expect a better response. but I don't expect much from athletes - its not their expertise.

listen even I HAVE acted irrationally lately. I told you about the family feud story. for the game my friend (white dude), wanted to pick up some chicken (my favorite), I actually GOT MAD AT HIM FOR OFFERING TO PICK UP some chicken. I was like "you that's not the only thing I eat or black people eat". it was completely stupid and irrational. we talked about it and we're good. black people are going thru a lot right now.

PS I cant stand LeBron but even I will give him a pass on this one. but the bottom line is he and phil need to talk

I think this was an attempt at character assassination by Lebron and Mav. Phil has been poking them for years now. I remember Lebron talking about Phil and his failing to create a winning team as a GM in the last year or so. This last poking by Phil was the last straw and they attempted to assassinate his character by labeling him a racist. The fact that Mav took a screenshot of the definitions of posse and purposely left off the relevant one shows this was intentional. I don't mind Lebron/Mav having a beef with Phil for what he said. I have a problem with them trying to turn this into a race issue. Racism is not something to casually throw around. To the people that saying this is a poor choice of word I disagree. The word is outdated but I have no problem with its usage here. According to the informal definition is was the perfect choice of word. Not that this matters much but I am a black man and I still find this abhorrent.

Here is the full screenshot of the definition of Posse that Mav purposly cut off.

PresIke wrote:The question to me is would Phil have used the word if he was referring to a bunch of white people?

I kind of doubt it.

I think it was a poor choice of words, speaking as a white person. Perhaps it is not my place perhaps to say how bad it is, but if I was Phil I'd apologize for the mistake and acknowledge the potential impact.

I'd argue pretty much all white people at some point have slipped in such a manner, including myself, in their past. Using it in this way, even if he didn't mean it this way, is what psychologists call a "microagression." The impact that racism/white supremacy/sexism, etc. has on us as a society is that, unfortunately, some words and phrases said by a person of the dominant cultural group (white people, men, straight identifying folks, etc.) can be a sign of our own stereotyping and/or when heard by others, especially a less powerful group/oppressed group member, as insensitive or lacking in empathy to even when we don't mean it.

martin, to answer your point about the word "posse," respectfully, the word was commonly used in the late 80's and early 90's to describe a group of young black men in hip-hop, right?

"My posse's always ready, and they're waitin' in my zone"
"The posse always ready - 98 at 98/My posse come quick, because my posse got velocity."

"Too Much Posse" - Public Enemy

"Posse" - Marvin Van Peebles 1993 "black" cowboy movie with Rakim and Big Daddy Kane titled quite clearly as a double entendre.

These are just some examples I can think of immediately.

I don't think it can be proven one way or another, but i also don't think "posse", "entourage", "crew", "group" or any other word that can be used in a similar fashion is specific to race. All of them can be used for any race without second thought. If i were to use any of those words in a sentence, i would not factor race into which word i used. I don't think he was either.

Clean wrote:I think this was an attempt at character assassination by Lebron and Mav. Phil has been poking them for years now. I remember Lebron talking about Phil and his failing to create a winning team as a GM in the last year or so. This last poking by Phil was the last straw and they attempted to assassinate his character by labeling him a racist. The fact that Mav took a screenshot of the definitions of posse and purposely left off the relevant one shows this was intentional. I don't mind Lebron/Mav having a beef with Phil for what he said. I have a problem with them trying to turn this into a race issue. Racism is not something to casually throw around. To the people that saying this is a poor choice of word I disagree. The word is outdated but I have no problem with its usage here. According to the informal definition is was the perfect choice of word. Not that this matters much but I am a black man and I still find this abhorrent.

Here is the full screenshot of the definition of Posse that Mav purposly cut off.

Exactly, there are already too many issues going on today to try to make this into something it's not.

I agree that's where he went wrong - does he get a pass for being an emotional young black man who's paid to play basketball not politics? I think THAT is the question.

to me he gets a pass but it seems like others are no giving him a pass. I find that interesting and intriguing (perfect sociological experiment)

I would love to do a study on the demographics on who posts here. just to get an idea of if or how that answers that question. or maybe theres no correlation at all? I have no idea

I sympathize with his emotional outburst - even though I can acknowledge its wrong, I can see where hes coming from (fear, intimidation, anger, etc). are my feelings based on race? my personality? my bias towards LeBron? my bias towards phil? a knicks fan? a cavs hater? I don't know.

I will look on the bright side of all this and grateful this "controversy" reminded me of the movie Posse — thanks PrezIke!

callmened wrote:I agree that's where he went wrong - does he get a pass for being an emotional young black man who's paid to play basketball not politics? I think THAT is the question.

to me he gets a pass but it seems like others are no giving him a pass. I find that interesting and intriguing (perfect sociological experiment)

I would love to do a study on the demographics on who posts here. just to get an idea of if or how that answers that question. or maybe theres no correlation at all? I have no idea

I sympathize with his emotional outburst - even though I can acknowledge its wrong, I can see where hes coming from (fear, intimidation, anger, etc). are my feelings based on race? my personality? my bias towards LeBron? my bias towards phil? a knicks fan? a cavs hater? I don't know.

It's like Dave Chappelle's 20% black / 80% comedian bit about Michael Richards' fall from grace... maybe you are 20% black, 40% blue, 40% orange!

callmened wrote:I agree that's where he went wrong - does he get a pass for being an emotional young black man who's paid to play basketball not politics? I think THAT is the question.

to me he gets a pass but it seems like others are no giving him a pass. I find that interesting and intriguing (perfect sociological experiment)

I would love to do a study on the demographics on who posts here. just to get an idea of if or how that answers that question. or maybe theres no correlation at all? I have no idea

I sympathize with his emotional outburst - even though I can acknowledge its wrong, I can see where hes coming from (fear, intimidation, anger, etc). are my feelings based on race? my personality? my bias towards LeBron? my bias towards phil? a knicks fan? a cavs hater? I don't know.

Ned, im black, 43 yrs old, born and raised in the Caribbean, the Bahamas,grew up around Jamaicans, saw white and blacks use the word posse and it was never taken to be negative. Maybe its negative in the usa among blacks there, but, when ever anyone says something about any group of Americans they always say its cause they're racist ; no matter how it was said or who said it.
Just because an old white guy says posse to young black guy its perceived as racist, if an old black guy said would it still be racist?
when sir mix-o-lot says my posse is on broadway was he saying his gang is terrorizing broadway or he and friends were partying and hanging out on broadway?

DrAlphaeus wrote:

callmened wrote:I agree that's where he went wrong - does he get a pass for being an emotional young black man who's paid to play basketball not politics? I think THAT is the question.

to me he gets a pass but it seems like others are no giving him a pass. I find that interesting and intriguing (perfect sociological experiment)

I would love to do a study on the demographics on who posts here. just to get an idea of if or how that answers that question. or maybe theres no correlation at all? I have no idea

I sympathize with his emotional outburst - even though I can acknowledge its wrong, I can see where hes coming from (fear, intimidation, anger, etc). are my feelings based on race? my personality? my bias towards LeBron? my bias towards phil? a knicks fan? a cavs hater? I don't know.

It's like Dave Chappelle's 20% black / 80% comedian bit about Michael Richards' fall from grace... maybe you are 20% black, 40% blue, 40% orange!

lol

DrAlphaeus wrote:I will look on the bright side of all this and grateful this "controversy" reminded me of the movie Posse — thanks PrezIke!

posee was nice
good movie

callmened wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

callmened wrote:I agree that's where he went wrong - does he get a pass for being an emotional young black man who's paid to play basketball not politics? I think THAT is the question.

to me he gets a pass but it seems like others are no giving him a pass. I find that interesting and intriguing (perfect sociological experiment)

I would love to do a study on the demographics on who posts here. just to get an idea of if or how that answers that question. or maybe theres no correlation at all? I have no idea

I sympathize with his emotional outburst - even though I can acknowledge its wrong, I can see where hes coming from (fear, intimidation, anger, etc). are my feelings based on race? my personality? my bias towards LeBron? my bias towards phil? a knicks fan? a cavs hater? I don't know.

It's like Dave Chappelle's 20% black / 80% comedian bit about Michael Richards' fall from grace... maybe you are 20% black, 40% blue, 40% orange!

lol

now that is hilarious , did u know his best friend and writing partner is white. Now that's an odd posee

http://nypost.com/2016/11/16/phil-jackso...
Put that posse in your pipe and smoke it

fishmike wrote:http://nypost.com/2016/11/16/phil-jackso...
Put that posse in your pipe and smoke it

Why even bother...

holfresh wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:I seriously never ever reallized that posse was meant as derogatory to black people. I always thought it was used to describe any group of people, that could even be diverse. Hell, I am pretty sure I probably said it about Conor McGregor and his people as well.

Maybe LeBron wants people to think of his friends as more than just a posse because he wants him and his friends to be viewed as great businessmen. I can 100% understand that but don't use race as an excuse to get offended and just speak your mind about how you you want your friends to be viewed as.

I think there's too much thought on this. If Lebron doesn't like the word posse, speak to Phil about that. It's clear Phil was talking about his friends. It was a passing comment. If we could hear the audio i bet Phil was light and nonchalant like always. Posse is not a derogatory statement towards black people. That's ridiculous. Again if Lebron has a problem with Phil Jackson which is now clear to everyone, then maybe he should go speak to Phil, not try to make this more than it really needs to

Phil went to the press on numerous occasions talking about LeBron, what is wrong in LeBron responding using the same medium?

They asked Phil a question and he answered. Phil never when out and said "hey what's up with this guy Lebron." They know Phil is gong to say some slick shit that's why they ask.

EnySpree wrote:

holfresh wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:I seriously never ever reallized that posse was meant as derogatory to black people. I always thought it was used to describe any group of people, that could even be diverse. Hell, I am pretty sure I probably said it about Conor McGregor and his people as well.

Maybe LeBron wants people to think of his friends as more than just a posse because he wants him and his friends to be viewed as great businessmen. I can 100% understand that but don't use race as an excuse to get offended and just speak your mind about how you you want your friends to be viewed as.

I think there's too much thought on this. If Lebron doesn't like the word posse, speak to Phil about that. It's clear Phil was talking about his friends. It was a passing comment. If we could hear the audio i bet Phil was light and nonchalant like always. Posse is not a derogatory statement towards black people. That's ridiculous. Again if Lebron has a problem with Phil Jackson which is now clear to everyone, then maybe he should go speak to Phil, not try to make this more than it really needs to

Phil went to the press on numerous occasions talking about LeBron, what is wrong in LeBron responding using the same medium?

They asked Phil a question and he answered. Phil never when out and said "hey what's up with this guy Lebron." They know Phil is gong to say some slick shit that's why they ask.

it's goink not gong

Should Phil have called them his entourage or his peeps, his crew... posse. Hmm.

Now Posse is racist? GTFO

My boss uses the term at work for his favorite crew to work with, of which I am a member. I have never once noted it as racist, it is a term that comes from the old west and has nothing to do with race.

What a joke.

jrodmc wrote:

PresIke wrote:The question to me is would Phil have used the word if he was referring to a bunch of white people?

I kind of doubt it.

I think it was a poor choice of words, speaking as a white person. Perhaps it is not my place perhaps to say how bad it is, but if I was Phil I'd apologize for the mistake and acknowledge the potential impact.

I'd argue pretty much all white people at some point have slipped in such a manner, including myself, in their past. Using it in this way, even if he didn't mean it this way, is what psychologists call a "microagression." The impact that racism/white supremacy/sexism, etc. has on us as a society is that, unfortunately, some words and phrases said by a person of the dominant cultural group (white people, men, straight identifying folks, etc.) can be a sign of our own stereotyping and/or when heard by others, especially a less powerful group/oppressed group member, as insensitive or lacking in empathy to even when we don't mean it.

Wow, holy victim mentality Batman!

Is that you Bill Maher?

I don't know why some are focusing on the racial aspect of this more than the fact that using the term Posse was not used a term of respect. It was used as a diss. If you have respect for someone then you would use more appropriate terms like Representatives, Team, Management etc. When you use a term like Posse that isn't an accurate word to describe these men nor one of respect for the positions they hold. It's not so much about RACE as it is about Respect.

Should've just called them bitches instead because there would have been less confusion about his intent...and he wouldn't have been wrong there either. I am not giving anyone, especially a "grown man" like lebron and his "crew" or his "boys"( assuming those words are still ok?) a pass for being emotional. The main emotion lebron was showing was anger, at being called out as a prima donna and he took the easy route by playing the race card. You don't have to know my race because it just doesn't matter.

There is no need to have a dialogue or intervention or put phil on oprah's tender loving couch. Nor do we need a linguist or professor of whatever to explain the history of urban slang and how it can be used inappropriately and become hurtful to others. No, this is lebron using his power not to fight back but to bully.