Knicks · D.Rose or B.Jennings or both? (page 3)
Realistically that will not happen, so with regards to Jennings and Rose I want to see how the season folds out first. Who holds up the year and how. Additionally what is the asking price.A few years ago Rose was looking for the max. If he is still looking for the max, that is for him something like 30 million a year, I pass. If he is able to hold up this season at 16/5 a night and play 70+ games, I would be willing to do 20 million a year at 4 years, with a player opt out after 3. For Jennings, same deal length at 10 million per year. Have to see fist what the team results are, and where these guys are in April. Can they keep this up (and improve) all year? Lets see.
sidneydeane wrote:Definitely dont want jennings starting at any stage, he's just not good enough. D is terrible, has eratic shot taking and always shoots low percentages. He is good coming off the bench tho just pushing the pace and setting ppl up. Would be happy to go forward with rose but we cant risk a max on him, and i highly doubt phil would.
Agree on both points although Jennings d isn't bad. If Jennings was worth that much why didn't he command more than 1 year 5mm? 3 yrs 27 mm is more than reasonable. Also Rose is not a franchise player I'd rather pay him reasonable 17-18mm for 3-4 years but no way would I pay him like Conley
BRIGGS wrote:sidneydeane wrote:Definitely dont want jennings starting at any stage, he's just not good enough. D is terrible, has eratic shot taking and always shoots low percentages. He is good coming off the bench tho just pushing the pace and setting ppl up. Would be happy to go forward with rose but we cant risk a max on him, and i highly doubt phil would.Agree on both points although Jennings d isn't bad. If Jennings was worth that much why didn't he command more than 1 year 5mm? 3 yrs 27 mm is more than reasonable. Also Rose is not a franchise player I'd rather pay him reasonable 17-18mm for 3-4 years but no way would I pay him like Conley
Thats practical Briggs... no question there. Does it make sense though? Essentially you are saying you are not willing to pay market value to keep either Jennings or Rose. You are not willing to pay them what guys like Crabbe and Turner are making. So in being practical you leave yourself with Sasha, Baker, Randle as your PGs. You will have a first rounder to use. You will have $30mm in cap space (assuming you let Holiday walk). Where does that leave you? You think CP3 is coming here? Zero chance. You will end up paying $12mm out of desperation for Paddy Mills or Beverly or some role player getting grossly overpaid in a sellers market.
tj23 wrote:Depends on Who's available and for what price. I believe Rose can still be very valuable but I would prefer an upgrade if possible and don't trust his health. I would probably only bring back Jennings for cheap if we couldn't land anyone else decent.
I think we need to re-sign Jennings no matter what but would rather him stay as our backup PG cause the energy he brings off the bench is amazing. Rose is playing pretty damn good and he hasn't even found his shot yet which is gonna come soon and he'll be unstoppable when he does. He's never been a great shooter but he used to be pretty good and would have his nights where he had his shot going that he can light it up but if his shot does come back with the incredible things he does taking it to the basket he's easily a max player and there will be a team or teams that will give him that even with the injury history IMO. So maybe we get lucky and he loves it in New York and wants to stay but he's not gonna love it enough to take $10 mil per less a year to stay. We're talking $10 mil per guys which is an unbelievable amount of money even for multi millionaires.
sidneydeane wrote:Definitely dont want jennings starting at any stage, he's just not good enough. D is terrible, has eratic shot taking and always shoots low percentages. He is good coming off the bench tho just pushing the pace and setting ppl up. Would be happy to go forward with rose but we cant risk a max on him, and i highly doubt phil would.
Jennings' D is terrible?? His D is not terrible, he's not a lock down defender but he's absolutely not terrible.
fishmike wrote:BRIGGS wrote:sidneydeane wrote:Definitely dont want jennings starting at any stage, he's just not good enough. D is terrible, has eratic shot taking and always shoots low percentages. He is good coming off the bench tho just pushing the pace and setting ppl up. Would be happy to go forward with rose but we cant risk a max on him, and i highly doubt phil would.Agree on both points although Jennings d isn't bad. If Jennings was worth that much why didn't he command more than 1 year 5mm? 3 yrs 27 mm is more than reasonable. Also Rose is not a franchise player I'd rather pay him reasonable 17-18mm for 3-4 years but no way would I pay him like Conley
Thats practical Briggs... no question there. Does it make sense though? Essentially you are saying you are not willing to pay market value to keep either Jennings or Rose. You are not willing to pay them what guys like Crabbe and Turner are making. So in being practical you leave yourself with Sasha, Baker, Randle as your PGs. You will have a first rounder to use. You will have $30mm in cap space (assuming you let Holiday walk). Where does that leave you? You think CP3 is coming here? Zero chance. You will end up paying $12mm out of desperation for Paddy Mills or Beverly or some role player getting grossly overpaid in a sellers market.
There's a lot of season left. This thread is 70 games Premature
BRIGGS wrote:sure... it was you however that mentioned specific contracts and lengths for both Jennings and Rose, labeled them as good offers and said you would take a hard line. Remember that?fishmike wrote:BRIGGS wrote:sidneydeane wrote:Definitely dont want jennings starting at any stage, he's just not good enough. D is terrible, has eratic shot taking and always shoots low percentages. He is good coming off the bench tho just pushing the pace and setting ppl up. Would be happy to go forward with rose but we cant risk a max on him, and i highly doubt phil would.Agree on both points although Jennings d isn't bad. If Jennings was worth that much why didn't he command more than 1 year 5mm? 3 yrs 27 mm is more than reasonable. Also Rose is not a franchise player I'd rather pay him reasonable 17-18mm for 3-4 years but no way would I pay him like Conley
Thats practical Briggs... no question there. Does it make sense though? Essentially you are saying you are not willing to pay market value to keep either Jennings or Rose. You are not willing to pay them what guys like Crabbe and Turner are making. So in being practical you leave yourself with Sasha, Baker, Randle as your PGs. You will have a first rounder to use. You will have $30mm in cap space (assuming you let Holiday walk). Where does that leave you? You think CP3 is coming here? Zero chance. You will end up paying $12mm out of desperation for Paddy Mills or Beverly or some role player getting grossly overpaid in a sellers market.There's a lot of season left. This thread is 70 games Premature
BRIGGS wrote:Exactly. Two bad games by Rose and/or Jennings and most of the people on this thread will be posting Rubio trade suggestions.fishmike wrote:BRIGGS wrote:sidneydeane wrote:Definitely dont want jennings starting at any stage, he's just not good enough. D is terrible, has eratic shot taking and always shoots low percentages. He is good coming off the bench tho just pushing the pace and setting ppl up. Would be happy to go forward with rose but we cant risk a max on him, and i highly doubt phil would.Agree on both points although Jennings d isn't bad. If Jennings was worth that much why didn't he command more than 1 year 5mm? 3 yrs 27 mm is more than reasonable. Also Rose is not a franchise player I'd rather pay him reasonable 17-18mm for 3-4 years but no way would I pay him like Conley
Thats practical Briggs... no question there. Does it make sense though? Essentially you are saying you are not willing to pay market value to keep either Jennings or Rose. You are not willing to pay them what guys like Crabbe and Turner are making. So in being practical you leave yourself with Sasha, Baker, Randle as your PGs. You will have a first rounder to use. You will have $30mm in cap space (assuming you let Holiday walk). Where does that leave you? You think CP3 is coming here? Zero chance. You will end up paying $12mm out of desperation for Paddy Mills or Beverly or some role player getting grossly overpaid in a sellers market.There's a lot of season left. This thread is 70 games Premature
BRIGGS wrote:fishmike wrote:BRIGGS wrote:sidneydeane wrote:Definitely dont want jennings starting at any stage, he's just not good enough. D is terrible, has eratic shot taking and always shoots low percentages. He is good coming off the bench tho just pushing the pace and setting ppl up. Would be happy to go forward with rose but we cant risk a max on him, and i highly doubt phil would.Agree on both points although Jennings d isn't bad. If Jennings was worth that much why didn't he command more than 1 year 5mm? 3 yrs 27 mm is more than reasonable. Also Rose is not a franchise player I'd rather pay him reasonable 17-18mm for 3-4 years but no way would I pay him like Conley
Thats practical Briggs... no question there. Does it make sense though? Essentially you are saying you are not willing to pay market value to keep either Jennings or Rose. You are not willing to pay them what guys like Crabbe and Turner are making. So in being practical you leave yourself with Sasha, Baker, Randle as your PGs. You will have a first rounder to use. You will have $30mm in cap space (assuming you let Holiday walk). Where does that leave you? You think CP3 is coming here? Zero chance. You will end up paying $12mm out of desperation for Paddy Mills or Beverly or some role player getting grossly overpaid in a sellers market.There's a lot of season left. This thread is 70 games Premature
Yeah that's why i clearly put in the original post that i know it's early.
BRIGGS wrote:sidneydeane wrote:Definitely dont want jennings starting at any stage, he's just not good enough. D is terrible, has eratic shot taking and always shoots low percentages. He is good coming off the bench tho just pushing the pace and setting ppl up. Would be happy to go forward with rose but we cant risk a max on him, and i highly doubt phil would.Agree on both points although Jennings d isn't bad. If Jennings was worth that much why didn't he command more than 1 year 5mm? 3 yrs 27 mm is more than reasonable. Also Rose is not a franchise player I'd rather pay him reasonable 17-18mm for 3-4 years but no way would I pay him like Conley
Jennings' D is absolutely awful. Any 2 man game against Jennings and Willy is destroying us. He is 100% lost off the ball allowing breakdowns.
tj23 wrote:Jennings as a knick has played good d in my opinion. He puts a lot of pressure on his man. Pretty sure he has been praised for his play on d either by Breen/Clyde or Hornacek.BRIGGS wrote:sidneydeane wrote:Definitely dont want jennings starting at any stage, he's just not good enough. D is terrible, has eratic shot taking and always shoots low percentages. He is good coming off the bench tho just pushing the pace and setting ppl up. Would be happy to go forward with rose but we cant risk a max on him, and i highly doubt phil would.Agree on both points although Jennings d isn't bad. If Jennings was worth that much why didn't he command more than 1 year 5mm? 3 yrs 27 mm is more than reasonable. Also Rose is not a franchise player I'd rather pay him reasonable 17-18mm for 3-4 years but no way would I pay him like Conley
Jennings' D is absolutely awful. Any 2 man game against Jennings and Willy is destroying us. He is 100% lost off the ball allowing breakdowns.
CrushAlot wrote:tj23 wrote:Jennings as a knick has played good d in my opinion. He puts a lot of pressure on his man. Pretty sure he has been praised for his play on d either by Breen/Clyde or Hornacek.BRIGGS wrote:sidneydeane wrote:Definitely dont want jennings starting at any stage, he's just not good enough. D is terrible, has eratic shot taking and always shoots low percentages. He is good coming off the bench tho just pushing the pace and setting ppl up. Would be happy to go forward with rose but we cant risk a max on him, and i highly doubt phil would.Agree on both points although Jennings d isn't bad. If Jennings was worth that much why didn't he command more than 1 year 5mm? 3 yrs 27 mm is more than reasonable. Also Rose is not a franchise player I'd rather pay him reasonable 17-18mm for 3-4 years but no way would I pay him like Conley
Jennings' D is absolutely awful. Any 2 man game against Jennings and Willy is destroying us. He is 100% lost off the ball allowing breakdowns.
No disrespect to Breen or Clyde, they are legends, but Breen has very limited knowledge and the game has clearly passed Clyde by or his eyes aren't what they used to be. They aren't insightful at all and it's been that way for a long time tbh.
There's a reason we have one of the worst defensive units in the league. But I'm not trying to generalize. I'll see if I can put together some video evidence to back up what I'm saying. But BJ is a guy if you watch closely is constantly making mistakes on the defensive end. More than most guys on the team, whether it's beat off the dribble, failing to pick up in transition, missing rotations, beat back door, etc.
CrushAlot wrote:Agree, at the very least he's giving solid effort on D.tj23 wrote:Jennings as a knick has played good d in my opinion. He puts a lot of pressure on his man. Pretty sure he has been praised for his play on d either by Breen/Clyde or Hornacek.BRIGGS wrote:sidneydeane wrote:Definitely dont want jennings starting at any stage, he's just not good enough. D is terrible, has eratic shot taking and always shoots low percentages. He is good coming off the bench tho just pushing the pace and setting ppl up. Would be happy to go forward with rose but we cant risk a max on him, and i highly doubt phil would.Agree on both points although Jennings d isn't bad. If Jennings was worth that much why didn't he command more than 1 year 5mm? 3 yrs 27 mm is more than reasonable. Also Rose is not a franchise player I'd rather pay him reasonable 17-18mm for 3-4 years but no way would I pay him like Conley
Jennings' D is absolutely awful. Any 2 man game against Jennings and Willy is destroying us. He is 100% lost off the ball allowing breakdowns.
tj23 wrote:Save your time with the video evidence. I can splice together video to make James Harden look like the defensive player of the year. Anybody can cherry pick video to prove any point they're trying to make.CrushAlot wrote:tj23 wrote:Jennings as a knick has played good d in my opinion. He puts a lot of pressure on his man. Pretty sure he has been praised for his play on d either by Breen/Clyde or Hornacek.BRIGGS wrote:sidneydeane wrote:Definitely dont want jennings starting at any stage, he's just not good enough. D is terrible, has eratic shot taking and always shoots low percentages. He is good coming off the bench tho just pushing the pace and setting ppl up. Would be happy to go forward with rose but we cant risk a max on him, and i highly doubt phil would.Agree on both points although Jennings d isn't bad. If Jennings was worth that much why didn't he command more than 1 year 5mm? 3 yrs 27 mm is more than reasonable. Also Rose is not a franchise player I'd rather pay him reasonable 17-18mm for 3-4 years but no way would I pay him like Conley
Jennings' D is absolutely awful. Any 2 man game against Jennings and Willy is destroying us. He is 100% lost off the ball allowing breakdowns.
No disrespect to Breen or Clyde, they are legends, but Breen has very limited knowledge and the game has clearly passed Clyde by or his eyes aren't what they used to be. They aren't insightful at all and it's been that way for a long time tbh.
There's a reason we have one of the worst defensive units in the league. But I'm not trying to generalize. I'll see if I can put together some video evidence to back up what I'm saying. But BJ is a guy if you watch closely is constantly making mistakes on the defensive end. More than most guys on the team, whether it's beat off the dribble, failing to pick up in transition, missing rotations, beat back door, etc.
tj23 wrote:Breen was a ref. I do the clock at work for some games and refs have to know the game. Clyde has been around the game forever. How does the game pass you by when you are doing games 4/7 nights a week. I would love video evidence proving my eyes wrong about Jennings. He is a pest and disruptive.CrushAlot wrote:tj23 wrote:Jennings as a knick has played good d in my opinion. He puts a lot of pressure on his man. Pretty sure he has been praised for his play on d either by Breen/Clyde or Hornacek.BRIGGS wrote:sidneydeane wrote:Definitely dont want jennings starting at any stage, he's just not good enough. D is terrible, has eratic shot taking and always shoots low percentages. He is good coming off the bench tho just pushing the pace and setting ppl up. Would be happy to go forward with rose but we cant risk a max on him, and i highly doubt phil would.Agree on both points although Jennings d isn't bad. If Jennings was worth that much why didn't he command more than 1 year 5mm? 3 yrs 27 mm is more than reasonable. Also Rose is not a franchise player I'd rather pay him reasonable 17-18mm for 3-4 years but no way would I pay him like Conley
Jennings' D is absolutely awful. Any 2 man game against Jennings and Willy is destroying us. He is 100% lost off the ball allowing breakdowns.
No disrespect to Breen or Clyde, they are legends, but Breen has very limited knowledge and the game has clearly passed Clyde by or his eyes aren't what they used to be. They aren't insightful at all and it's been that way for a long time tbh.
There's a reason we have one of the worst defensive units in the league. But I'm not trying to generalize. I'll see if I can put together some video evidence to back up what I'm saying. But BJ is a guy if you watch closely is constantly making mistakes on the defensive end. More than most guys on the team, whether it's beat off the dribble, failing to pick up in transition, missing rotations, beat back door, etc.
Welpee wrote:tj23 wrote:Save your time with the video evidence. I can splice together video to make James Harden look like the defensive player of the year. Anybody can cherry pick video to prove any point they're trying to make.CrushAlot wrote:tj23 wrote:Jennings as a knick has played good d in my opinion. He puts a lot of pressure on his man. Pretty sure he has been praised for his play on d either by Breen/Clyde or Hornacek.BRIGGS wrote:sidneydeane wrote:Definitely dont want jennings starting at any stage, he's just not good enough. D is terrible, has eratic shot taking and always shoots low percentages. He is good coming off the bench tho just pushing the pace and setting ppl up. Would be happy to go forward with rose but we cant risk a max on him, and i highly doubt phil would.Agree on both points although Jennings d isn't bad. If Jennings was worth that much why didn't he command more than 1 year 5mm? 3 yrs 27 mm is more than reasonable. Also Rose is not a franchise player I'd rather pay him reasonable 17-18mm for 3-4 years but no way would I pay him like Conley
Jennings' D is absolutely awful. Any 2 man game against Jennings and Willy is destroying us. He is 100% lost off the ball allowing breakdowns.
No disrespect to Breen or Clyde, they are legends, but Breen has very limited knowledge and the game has clearly passed Clyde by or his eyes aren't what they used to be. They aren't insightful at all and it's been that way for a long time tbh.
There's a reason we have one of the worst defensive units in the league. But I'm not trying to generalize. I'll see if I can put together some video evidence to back up what I'm saying. But BJ is a guy if you watch closely is constantly making mistakes on the defensive end. More than most guys on the team, whether it's beat off the dribble, failing to pick up in transition, missing rotations, beat back door, etc.
And anybody can post any wild opinion on a message board with zero evidence. I'm not on a witch hunt for Jennings or something. Just trying to shed some light on his defensive shortcomings. He's not the only one struggling with simple defensive assignments. The only 3 players I've seen play sound defense on a consistent basis are Noah, Holiday, and Lance Thomas.
CrushAlot wrote:tj23 wrote:Breen was a ref. I do the clock at work for some games and refs have to know the game. Clyde has been around the game forever. How does the game pass you by when you are doing games 4/7 nights a week. I would love video evidence proving my eyes wrong about Jennings. He is a pest and disruptive.CrushAlot wrote:tj23 wrote:Jennings as a knick has played good d in my opinion. He puts a lot of pressure on his man. Pretty sure he has been praised for his play on d either by Breen/Clyde or Hornacek.BRIGGS wrote:sidneydeane wrote:Definitely dont want jennings starting at any stage, he's just not good enough. D is terrible, has eratic shot taking and always shoots low percentages. He is good coming off the bench tho just pushing the pace and setting ppl up. Would be happy to go forward with rose but we cant risk a max on him, and i highly doubt phil would.Agree on both points although Jennings d isn't bad. If Jennings was worth that much why didn't he command more than 1 year 5mm? 3 yrs 27 mm is more than reasonable. Also Rose is not a franchise player I'd rather pay him reasonable 17-18mm for 3-4 years but no way would I pay him like Conley
Jennings' D is absolutely awful. Any 2 man game against Jennings and Willy is destroying us. He is 100% lost off the ball allowing breakdowns.
No disrespect to Breen or Clyde, they are legends, but Breen has very limited knowledge and the game has clearly passed Clyde by or his eyes aren't what they used to be. They aren't insightful at all and it's been that way for a long time tbh.
There's a reason we have one of the worst defensive units in the league. But I'm not trying to generalize. I'll see if I can put together some video evidence to back up what I'm saying. But BJ is a guy if you watch closely is constantly making mistakes on the defensive end. More than most guys on the team, whether it's beat off the dribble, failing to pick up in transition, missing rotations, beat back door, etc.
Maybe I should make a video on the ridiculously inaccurate things Breen and Clyde say. They know more than the average fan but that isn't saying much. But I get it. Not a popular opinion. I can already tell I've dug a hole for myself in this thread calling out our 2 favorite broadcasters. But it is what it is. I call it how I see it.
tj23 wrote:And if I had the time or the inclination I could put together a video package of Jennings doing a great job on defense. It's no different than high school recruiting "mix tape" videos. Everybody looks like a 5 star recruit in those packages when you cherry pick select plays. The point is it isn't evidence of anything since it doesn't proof that what you're claiming is constant and consistent. That part could just as easily be considered your wild opinion.Welpee wrote:tj23 wrote:Save your time with the video evidence. I can splice together video to make James Harden look like the defensive player of the year. Anybody can cherry pick video to prove any point they're trying to make.CrushAlot wrote:tj23 wrote:Jennings as a knick has played good d in my opinion. He puts a lot of pressure on his man. Pretty sure he has been praised for his play on d either by Breen/Clyde or Hornacek.BRIGGS wrote:sidneydeane wrote:Definitely dont want jennings starting at any stage, he's just not good enough. D is terrible, has eratic shot taking and always shoots low percentages. He is good coming off the bench tho just pushing the pace and setting ppl up. Would be happy to go forward with rose but we cant risk a max on him, and i highly doubt phil would.Agree on both points although Jennings d isn't bad. If Jennings was worth that much why didn't he command more than 1 year 5mm? 3 yrs 27 mm is more than reasonable. Also Rose is not a franchise player I'd rather pay him reasonable 17-18mm for 3-4 years but no way would I pay him like Conley
Jennings' D is absolutely awful. Any 2 man game against Jennings and Willy is destroying us. He is 100% lost off the ball allowing breakdowns.
No disrespect to Breen or Clyde, they are legends, but Breen has very limited knowledge and the game has clearly passed Clyde by or his eyes aren't what they used to be. They aren't insightful at all and it's been that way for a long time tbh.
There's a reason we have one of the worst defensive units in the league. But I'm not trying to generalize. I'll see if I can put together some video evidence to back up what I'm saying. But BJ is a guy if you watch closely is constantly making mistakes on the defensive end. More than most guys on the team, whether it's beat off the dribble, failing to pick up in transition, missing rotations, beat back door, etc.
And anybody can post any wild opinion on a message board with zero evidence. I'm not on a witch hunt for Jennings or something. Just trying to shed some light on his defensive shortcomings. He's not the only one struggling with simple defensive assignments. The only 3 players I've seen play sound defense on a consistent basis are Noah, Holiday, and Lance Thomas.
If this is your opinion that's fine, that's what a message board is all about. Just saying showing a couple plays on a video doesn't really prove anything.