Knicks · Melo: If they feel my time in NY is over that's a conversation we should have (page 2)
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If he (Phil) gets us something long term for Melo, having already drafted KP and then hopefully gets a good pick this summer in the lottery. It would be more than enough. It's all bout having the right core that can win long term. Enough of the other crap.
StarksEwing1 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:you make a good point. The problem is that he will only accept a trade to the cavs or clippers who dont have much to trade. Maybe during the summer he would expand his list and give us more value. I dont want to wait but i want a good return considering everything we gave up intiallyStarksEwing1 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:good post. It would probably make more sense waiting for the summer in terms of value. As for rose they should try and get something for him even by eating some salary to get a better returnholfresh wrote:Like Trump, that just set up a negotiation starting point..I agree Melo left the door a little open. If Melo goes, Im guessing he wants Phil to be seen as the one driving this move (even though he has the NTC) and probably wouldnt mind leaving himself at this point.
If its a choice between a bad deal now, and a better deal this summer, I hope Phil waits. Rose I would move now, try for another expiring deal, like Noel.
Not trying to be funny here, but Melo would probably want to go to one of the LA teams because of his wife's career, and his kids as well. Engineering something that would address his and his family's needs probably has a better chance of happening over the summer.
Melo is a 14 year veteran who has played about 20 seasons worth of minutes and has a bad shoulder. Waiting is too big a gamble IMO.
I humbly disagree. I'm not sure if the Stepien rule would prevent this but I'd gladly take the next available Clippers'first round pick once they've satisfied their debt to Toronto and Boston. By the time it comes available, the Clippers might be bad enough for it to be a top pick in the draft. After all, CP3 and Melo are north of 30 years old and Blake Griffin is injury-prone. They are a team that could fall apart at the seems quickly, much like the Nets did after acquiring KG and Paul Pierce from Boston. And with Doc Rivers not having displayed any semblance of foresight in contracts and deals, I think there is a very good possibility for us to bully him around in negotiations.
Ideally, I'd demand their 2021 first rounder to be unprotected and pick swaps in two other years. I think that is a more than fair deal and gives us the opportunity to be terrible enough to vye for a lottery pick in this 2017 draft. With some luck, we might actually play ourselves into a position to get a Markelle Fultz or one of the other top-tier PGs in the draft that fit Porzingis' timeline.
NardDogNation wrote:id want at least a first rounder unprotected thats a mustStarksEwing1 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:you make a good point. The problem is that he will only accept a trade to the cavs or clippers who dont have much to trade. Maybe during the summer he would expand his list and give us more value. I dont want to wait but i want a good return considering everything we gave up intiallyStarksEwing1 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:good post. It would probably make more sense waiting for the summer in terms of value. As for rose they should try and get something for him even by eating some salary to get a better returnholfresh wrote:Like Trump, that just set up a negotiation starting point..I agree Melo left the door a little open. If Melo goes, Im guessing he wants Phil to be seen as the one driving this move (even though he has the NTC) and probably wouldnt mind leaving himself at this point.
If its a choice between a bad deal now, and a better deal this summer, I hope Phil waits. Rose I would move now, try for another expiring deal, like Noel.
Not trying to be funny here, but Melo would probably want to go to one of the LA teams because of his wife's career, and his kids as well. Engineering something that would address his and his family's needs probably has a better chance of happening over the summer.
Melo is a 14 year veteran who has played about 20 seasons worth of minutes and has a bad shoulder. Waiting is too big a gamble IMO.I humbly disagree. I'm not sure if the Stepien rule would prevent this but I'd gladly take the next available Clippers'first round pick once they've satisfied their debt to Toronto and Boston. By the time it comes available, the Clippers might be bad enough for it to be a top pick in the draft. After all, CP3 and Melo are north of 30 years old and Blake Griffin is injury-prone. They are a team that could fall apart at the seems quickly, much like the Nets did after acquiring KG and Paul Pierce from Boston. And with Doc Rivers not having displayed any semblance of foresight in contracts and deals, I think there is a very good possibility for us to bully him around in negotiations.
Ideally, I'd demand their 2021 first rounder to be unprotected and pick swaps in two other years. I think that is a more than fair deal and gives us the opportunity to be terrible enough to vye for a lottery pick in this 2017 draft. With some luck, we might actually play ourselves into a position to get a Markelle Fultz or one of the other top-tier PGs in the draft that fit Porzingis' timeline.
Bonn1997 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:good post. It would probably make more sense waiting for the summer in terms of value. As for rose they should try and get something for him even by eating some salary to get a better returnholfresh wrote:Like Trump, that just set up a negotiation starting point..I agree Melo left the door a little open. If Melo goes, Im guessing he wants Phil to be seen as the one driving this move (even though he has the NTC) and probably wouldnt mind leaving himself at this point.
If its a choice between a bad deal now, and a better deal this summer, I hope Phil waits. Rose I would move now, try for another expiring deal, like Noel.
Not trying to be funny here, but Melo would probably want to go to one of the LA teams because of his wife's career, and his kids as well. Engineering something that would address his and his family's needs probably has a better chance of happening over the summer.
Melo is a 14 year veteran who has played about 20 seasons worth of minutes and has a bad shoulder. Waiting is too big a gamble IMO.That kind of thinking got us Ewing's crappy deal, and years of cap hell. Might not be a good deal out there that Phil can put together in a hurry. Sure try, but if not wait until the dust settles.
No, I want to free up cap room, not do something that could hurt long-term.
Why? I'd imagine that the value of cap room is at an all-time low with so many teams having it available. Because of that, my primary concern in a Melo deal would be trying to recoup as many tangible assets as possible that are key to a successful rebuild (i.e. draft picks).
StarksEwing1 wrote:NardDogNation wrote:id want at least a first rounder unprotected thats a mustStarksEwing1 wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:you make a good point. The problem is that he will only accept a trade to the cavs or clippers who dont have much to trade. Maybe during the summer he would expand his list and give us more value. I dont want to wait but i want a good return considering everything we gave up intiallyStarksEwing1 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:good post. It would probably make more sense waiting for the summer in terms of value. As for rose they should try and get something for him even by eating some salary to get a better returnholfresh wrote:Like Trump, that just set up a negotiation starting point..I agree Melo left the door a little open. If Melo goes, Im guessing he wants Phil to be seen as the one driving this move (even though he has the NTC) and probably wouldnt mind leaving himself at this point.
If its a choice between a bad deal now, and a better deal this summer, I hope Phil waits. Rose I would move now, try for another expiring deal, like Noel.
Not trying to be funny here, but Melo would probably want to go to one of the LA teams because of his wife's career, and his kids as well. Engineering something that would address his and his family's needs probably has a better chance of happening over the summer.
Melo is a 14 year veteran who has played about 20 seasons worth of minutes and has a bad shoulder. Waiting is too big a gamble IMO.I humbly disagree. I'm not sure if the Stepien rule would prevent this but I'd gladly take the next available Clippers'first round pick once they've satisfied their debt to Toronto and Boston. By the time it comes available, the Clippers might be bad enough for it to be a top pick in the draft. After all, CP3 and Melo are north of 30 years old and Blake Griffin is injury-prone. They are a team that could fall apart at the seems quickly, much like the Nets did after acquiring KG and Paul Pierce from Boston. And with Doc Rivers not having displayed any semblance of foresight in contracts and deals, I think there is a very good possibility for us to bully him around in negotiations.
Ideally, I'd demand their 2021 first rounder to be unprotected and pick swaps in two other years. I think that is a more than fair deal and gives us the opportunity to be terrible enough to vye for a lottery pick in this 2017 draft. With some luck, we might actually play ourselves into a position to get a Markelle Fultz or one of the other top-tier PGs in the draft that fit Porzingis' timeline.
...but would you balk at a deal that didn't offer much more? I don't see the Clips giving us two unprotected first round picks with them still having an outstanding debt to both the Raptors and Celtics, respectively.
Bonn1997 wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:good post. It would probably make more sense waiting for the summer in terms of value. As for rose they should try and get something for him even by eating some salary to get a better returnholfresh wrote:Like Trump, that just set up a negotiation starting point..I agree Melo left the door a little open. If Melo goes, Im guessing he wants Phil to be seen as the one driving this move (even though he has the NTC) and probably wouldnt mind leaving himself at this point.
If its a choice between a bad deal now, and a better deal this summer, I hope Phil waits. Rose I would move now, try for another expiring deal, like Noel.
Not trying to be funny here, but Melo would probably want to go to one of the LA teams because of his wife's career, and his kids as well. Engineering something that would address his and his family's needs probably has a better chance of happening over the summer.
Melo is a 14 year veteran who has played about 20 seasons worth of minutes and has a bad shoulder. Waiting is too big a gamble IMO.
You act like the knicks have a quality F.O. as long as Phil is here the trade will likely be terrible regardless
I believe that he had to re-sign him because of Dolan. Had he had his way he would have let Melo walk.
Melo is a great scorer and could be an even better as a set up guy if he had the brains to do it. The team goes up and down as Melo's desire to fit in or be all about his ego.
I am all for a trade. It will be a positive move for the team. I trust in Phil. He is the only one who has ever won anything in the organization.
Best believe though, we need proper compensation. Salary cap relief and a pick would be nice. We absolutely do not to be doing him favors like we did for Stump and JR....
GustavBahler wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:good post. It would probably make more sense waiting for the summer in terms of value. As for rose they should try and get something for him even by eating some salary to get a better returnholfresh wrote:Like Trump, that just set up a negotiation starting point..I agree Melo left the door a little open. If Melo goes, Im guessing he wants Phil to be seen as the one driving this move (even though he has the NTC) and probably wouldnt mind leaving himself at this point.
If its a choice between a bad deal now, and a better deal this summer, I hope Phil waits. Rose I would move now, try for another expiring deal, like Noel.
Not trying to be funny here, but Melo would probably want to go to one of the LA teams because of his wife's career, and his kids as well. Engineering something that would address his and his family's needs probably has a better chance of happening over the summer.
Melo is a 14 year veteran who has played about 20 seasons worth of minutes and has a bad shoulder. Waiting is too big a gamble IMO.That kind of thinking got us Ewing's crappy deal, and years of cap hell. Might not be a good deal out there that Phil can put together in a hurry. Sure try, but if not wait until the dust settles.
Agreed. They should wait and see who he would be willing to go to. There are a lot better teams out there that could trade for Melo besides the Clips and the Cavs. Specifically the Celtics and the Wizards...... Phil has to sit with him and figure something out.
Knixkik wrote:I have always been supportive of Melo. He is the scapegoat the same way Ewing was. NY fans just don't learn. However, if it's time to move on, that's fine. It's reality that most of these relationships end in divorce. Change is the only constant. But I would have loved to see porzingis at the 5 and Melo at the 4 before a divorce. But it may be too little too late. We can't learn much the 2nd half of the year if both sides are thinking it's time to move on.
I also agree. Us losing isn't Melo's fault. But the Knicks need to get younger and their time table for success likely doesn't match Melo's. The Knicks also need to keep cap space open. Literally the best time to trade Melo to would be Boston for those 2 Brooklyn Picks..... maybe through in Lee or KOQ to make it a better deal.
I do have no hard feelings for Melo. I appreciate his talent as a scorer. He's one of the best isolation scorers in the game. However, he is not winning as the man. We're moving nowhere. We're stuck between a fringe playoff team and a lottery team. It's not a good place to be in every year. Moving Melo expediates the rebuilding process.
If the team were able to win something in the now, or Melo was drawing in all-star free agents that could put the Knicks into contending, ok. That's not the case. The trade has made sense for almost 2 years now. However Phil and everyone wanted to give it a try. They have. Time to move on now.
Phil has to step up. Take the heat. Be the bad guy. He's already vilified. He does need to make a trade that gives Knicks some capspace and longterm assets. It won't be easy to make a trade.
wargames wrote:Knixkik wrote:I have always been supportive of Melo. He is the scapegoat the same way Ewing was. NY fans just don't learn. However, if it's time to move on, that's fine. It's reality that most of these relationships end in divorce. Change is the only constant. But I would have loved to see porzingis at the 5 and Melo at the 4 before a divorce. But it may be too little too late. We can't learn much the 2nd half of the year if both sides are thinking it's time to move on.I also agree. Us losing isn't Melo's fault. But the Knicks need to get younger and their time table for success likely doesn't match Melo's. The Knicks also need to keep cap space open. Literally the best time to trade Melo to would be Boston for those 2 Brooklyn Picks..... maybe through in Lee or KOQ to make it a better deal.
I doubt we can get both picks. I also doubt melo would want to go to boston. I think LAC would be his landing spot, if any. Too bad they don't have much we can use. Maybe they consider trading us Blake if we also take that terrible Wes Johnson deal off their hands and include o'quinn, who would really help them off the bench. Flip Griffin to a 3rd team. Not sure what else we can do. I'm not taking Clippers junk and they have no picks. Maybe to Cleveland for Thompson and this year's 1st rounder but Melo really doesn't make much sense for them. I'd hold off for Griffin. We could send them melo and a 3rd team can give them extra depth. If and when a deal happens, it will have to be an elaborate 3 team trade. Maybe Melo to LA, Griffin to boston, Crowder headed to LA too. Bk 1st rounder to us. Fillers to make the contracts work (boston is under the cap which makes it easier.) Something like that could work.
wargames wrote:Knixkik wrote:I have always been supportive of Melo. He is the scapegoat the same way Ewing was. NY fans just don't learn. However, if it's time to move on, that's fine. It's reality that most of these relationships end in divorce. Change is the only constant. But I would have loved to see porzingis at the 5 and Melo at the 4 before a divorce. But it may be too little too late. We can't learn much the 2nd half of the year if both sides are thinking it's time to move on.I also agree. Us losing isn't Melo's fault. But the Knicks need to get younger and their time table for success likely doesn't match Melo's. The Knicks also need to keep cap space open. Literally the best time to trade Melo to would be Boston for those 2 Brooklyn Picks..... maybe through in Lee or KOQ to make it a better deal.
Melo isn't worth two top-3 picks in highly touted drafts. With the terms of the CBA changing, teams now have the means to offer homegrown talent tens of millions more on subsequent contracts than the competition. In effect, the guy you draft can effectively be locked in for a full decade before ever touching free agency. That combination of value and security far outweigh anything Melo offers on the court at this stage of his career.
nyknickzingis wrote:If Clips want Melo they have to give up Blake. No other way a deal can happen and they know it.
Why?
TLover wrote:Austin Rivers & Jamal Crawford for Carmelo works $ wise. Clippers add a pick and we have a deal.
Why on earth would we make such a bad deal? Melo's still a damn good player. He has 2 years left on his deal after this one, and can likely give the Clips a chance to make a run at a title. I'm not dealing him there for less than Blake. I doubt Phil would either.
nyknickzingis wrote:TLover wrote:Austin Rivers & Jamal Crawford for Carmelo works $ wise. Clippers add a pick and we have a deal.
Why on earth would we make such a bad deal? Melo's still a damn good player. He has 2 years left on his deal after this one, and can likely give the Clips a chance to make a run at a title. I'm not dealing him there for less than Blake. I doubt Phil would either.
The Clippers aren't the desperate organization..They aren't the ones making the call asking for a deal..