Moonangie wrote:Knixkik wrote:I would make a trade if we can bring in a 3rd team especially. To me denver makes the most sense. They can use Love. He would fit in nicely with Jokic and Gallinari in the frontcourt. We could get back Murray, who i think is going to be very good, Chandler, who can essentially replace Melo in the lineup and bring about 2/3 of the offense with better defense, and maybe both of Denver's 1st round picks this year, one of which would come from Memphis. Basically 2 picks in the 14-20 range. Cleveland can also get Nelson from them, who is a backup PG target and ideal for them.
I'd call the Denver package "plan B". IMO, plan A is the trade with Boston that gets us BKNY's pick.
STein was on with Michael Kay. He said that Boston already has a defensive liability in Thomas so he didn't think they would want Melo. Also, I don't think they get the BK pick but they still would be the preferred trade partner for the Knicks.
knicks1248 wrote:Phil makes trades to get rid of players that don't run his precious triangle or seem like their disgruntal...he would trade melo for a bag of rocks.Phil is worse than any Prez we ever had..
Not even close. Phil got us D.Rose when nobody thought we could get a good PG, Phil drafted KP and Billy, he got C.Lee on a good deal, he got us Kuz, KOQ, B.Jennings . Phil put a team together with plenty of talent and it's not on him that they can't play together cause they should be playing better.
holfresh wrote:SAS says Melo is willing to go...
Melo said he wasn't going anywhere.
It's bullshit on both ends but why is it OK to immediately believe a straight up Dick like SAS? How does he know Melo would welcome it? Melo and the Knicks camp are air right when it comes to information to the media. Opinion is not a source.
Fyi it's almost impossible to make a Melo to Cleveland trade. Melo makes too much. A third team could get involved but who is going where? Just doesn't make any sense
newyorker4ever wrote:EnySpree wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Phil makes trades to get rid of players that don't run his precious triangle or seem like their disgruntal...he would trade melo for a bag of rocks.Phil is worse than any Prez we ever had..
Not even close. Phil got us D.Rose when nobody thought we could get a good PG, Phil drafted KP and Billy, he got C.Lee on a good deal, he got us Kuz, KOQ, B.Jennings . Phil put a team together with plenty of talent and it's not on him that they can't play together cause they should be playing better.
Scott Leyden?
Isaiah Thomas
Nah man Scott Leyden was capped out with Houston, Weatherspoon, Shandon Anderson and Howard Eisley taking up most of the cap. Brings back some bad memories
Cavs lost to the KINGS at home tonight. Our old friend Arron Afflalo hit the game winning three.
crzymdups wrote:Cavs lost to the KINGS at home tonight. Our old friend Arron Afflalo hit the game winning three.
Did Love play?
Just thinking. Man must be tough in that lockerroom or for Love. He must know that LBJ is essentially saying trade him for Melo.
nyknickzingis wrote:crzymdups wrote:Cavs lost to the KINGS at home tonight. Our old friend Arron Afflalo hit the game winning three.
Did Love play?
Just thinking. Man must be tough in that lockerroom or for Love. He must know that LBJ is essentially saying trade him for Melo.
Yeah, Love played he had 21pts 16reb 5ast... he's playing well for them this year.
Weirdly, I think the Cavs miss JR Smith a lot right now.
Also, apparently Isiah Thomas was on NBA TV tonight saying how well KP and Kevin Love would compliment each other... hahaha
I can pretty much guarantee when Phil leaves Isiah will make a strong play to come back to the Garden
Has Melo to The Spurs been discussed at all?
gunsnewing wrote:Has Melo to The Spurs been discussed at all?
Pop knows better than that.
crzymdups wrote:Also, apparently Isiah Thomas was on NBA TV tonight saying how well KP and Kevin Love would compliment each other... hahahaI can pretty much guarantee when Phil leaves Isiah will make a strong play to come back to the Garden
Let's say that in my opinion
Love (defends the post up 5s otherwise KP)
Porzingis
Kuzminskas or Holiday
Lee
Rose
Would be an interesting starting 5. Love is not an isolation ball dominant player. This becomes a point guard, screen and pop or screen and roll team with some other sets. They can use Love many ways. Does changing Love for Melo make us worse on defence? Not really in my opinion.
On offense, it actually helps. Better spacing. Less isolation play. Rose has a screen and roll threat. Love sets really good screens. He can roll or pop. KP moves into Melos role with less isolations required for him. Believe it or not I wouldn't be surprised if we enjoyed that team.
That said I would rather send Love to a third team and get a package of young players and a 2017 draft pick.
Not a fan of love. Keep in mind how much he is benefitting being the 2d or 3D option on that team on offense and having Tristan take the tougher defensive assignments.
If he's in the trade I hope its to be flipped w a third team. Our goal should Be picks and youths who have shown they can play. Wondering if a trade could involve Tristan and some other athletes.
newyorker4ever wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Phil makes trades to get rid of players that don't run his precious triangle or seem like their disgruntal...he would trade melo for a bag of rocks.Phil is worse than any Prez we ever had..
Not even close. Phil got us D.Rose when nobody thought we could get a good PG, Phil drafted KP and Billy, he got C.Lee on a good deal, he got us Kuz, KOQ, B.Jennings . Phil put a team together with plenty of talent and it's not on him that they can't play together cause they should be playing better.
+1 on the talent. Also we should keep in mind moves like rose were low risk tryouts. The quandary now is rose has shown he can get to the rim better than many here expected. The issue is what to do w him given our needs and his being more a 2 than a 1
HofstraBBall wrote:Chandler wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:I don't buy into the melo for Love offer. I would want picks so a third team would need to be involved
They just won the championship and they're currently in 1st. There isn't much rational incentive for them to break up their team, let alone to give away picks too.
Trade makes tons of sense. Keep in mind that lebron needs to rest once in a while
Melo can shoot deep like love. Can be more of a primary when lebron is resting
Melo and lebron can play 30 mpg for rest of season and be fresh for playoffs
I don't get the Love love though. Would prefer other assets
Agree, it makes sense for Cavs. And about Love. Think Uncle Phil wants someone to "Play the right way". Pass more than Melo. Love at 1.8 this year, not better. Score more than Melo, Love 20.5 so far, not better. Shoot better than Melo, Love 42%, 37% from 3pt., not better. Well at least he rebounds.
Phil just likes proving that he is the "Zen Master" and not just a coach that had Jordan, Pippen, Kobe, and Shaq. Lets hope he is the former.
im not saying i want kevin love (because i'm not sure i do) but this has to be about the dumbest rationale for not making a trade that i've seen. you're going to compare stats for two players who are in COMPLETELY and i capitalized and underlined the word completely because that's about how different the two players situations are. kevin love is the third scoring option on a team with two players who are combined averaging close to 40 shots a game. the assists makes no sense to me for two reasons.. one, being the third option, most times that kevin love touches the ball, it's near the end of the shot-clock and two, he's again playing with two players who have the ball in their hands a TON. he's not asked to be a playmaker, he's only asked to be a finisher. meanwhile carmelo has the ball in hands all the time and IS the playmaker for the knicks. their situations couldn't be more different.
again, i'm not sure i want kevin love, but im not going to judge his ability as a player, while being the 3rd option on a team with lebron james. i've always kind of viewed him as a stat-hanger in minnesota, alot of hollow 20 and 10's those years up there, but i also just don't think he fits well with kp. i do think he has the ability to be a playmaker in the post, as he has shown that while in minnesota.
Chandler wrote:Not a fan of love. Keep in mind how much he is benefitting being the 2d or 3D option on that team on offense and having Tristan take the tougher defensive assignments.
I'm not a huge Love fan either but I don't think that's right. His production (even his efficiency) was better when he was the first option in Minn.
Chandler wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Phil makes trades to get rid of players that don't run his precious triangle or seem like their disgruntal...he would trade melo for a bag of rocks.Phil is worse than any Prez we ever had..
Not even close. Phil got us D.Rose when nobody thought we could get a good PG, Phil drafted KP and Billy, he got C.Lee on a good deal, he got us Kuz, KOQ, B.Jennings . Phil put a team together with plenty of talent and it's not on him that they can't play together cause they should be playing better.
+1 on the talent. Also we should keep in mind moves like rose were low risk tryouts. The quandary now is rose has shown he can get to the rim better than many here expected. The issue is what to do w him given our needs and his being more a 2 than a 1
I agree Phil gets talent and also doesn't take longterm risks. He usually makes good calls on young players. O'Quinn. Galloway even was a good find (We should have kept him). Kuz. Baker. Plumlee. Obviously KP and Willy. He took short term risk on Jennigs and Rose. Good deal for Lee.
The problem for Phil has been that he thinks he's still coaching. He's not. He was such a great coach, that all you needed to give him was a talented team and he would figure out ways. He thinks all coaches need that. Not true. Hornachek is a good coach, but ages removed from what Phil could do. Horny needs more of a D'Antoni type of roster. Not as much small ball, and 3 point shooting, but similar make up. Speed. Excellent athleticism. No ball dominant wing. Phil has probably figured that out now, seeing that he offered Melo for Love. However when he built these Knicks teams, he built them thinking he was going to coach them. That's been his biggest mistake. He's no longer a coach. He has to build the team the way his current coach, the system his current coach has, needs.
He is smart enough where I think he sees that and sees what Horny needs. The question is whether he can actually make the changes needed quick enough. Hornachek won't survive a slow start next season.
crzymdups wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:crzymdups wrote:Cavs lost to the KINGS at home tonight. Our old friend Arron Afflalo hit the game winning three.
Did Love play?
Just thinking. Man must be tough in that lockerroom or for Love. He must know that LBJ is essentially saying trade him for Melo.
Yeah, Love played he had 21pts 16reb 5ast... he's playing well for them this year.
Weirdly, I think the Cavs miss JR Smith a lot right now.
JR is looking good right now, with them losing. Love is a very good player and is playing well this year. Dont think he is their problem. Just wonder how he would fit with KP. But here is the thing, as mentioned many times, why would any team that gets a call from Phil want to trade anything substantial? Think Phil got overly excited when he thought LBJ would want "A play maker" He didn't realize LBG meant a PG. And did he forget the "Posee" comment. Why would LBJ want to help UNcle Phil out? The big thing for me, against a Melo trade, is how anyone expects that other teams will offer much for a guy with NTC. They know if Phil comes a calling, they are one of maybe 2 teams Melo wants to go to. Not the best position to be in when trying to negotiate.
nyknickzingis wrote:Chandler wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Phil makes trades to get rid of players that don't run his precious triangle or seem like their disgruntal...he would trade melo for a bag of rocks.Phil is worse than any Prez we ever had..
Not even close. Phil got us D.Rose when nobody thought we could get a good PG, Phil drafted KP and Billy, he got C.Lee on a good deal, he got us Kuz, KOQ, B.Jennings . Phil put a team together with plenty of talent and it's not on him that they can't play together cause they should be playing better.
+1 on the talent. Also we should keep in mind moves like rose were low risk tryouts. The quandary now is rose has shown he can get to the rim better than many here expected. The issue is what to do w him given our needs and his being more a 2 than a 1
I agree Phil gets talent and also doesn't take longterm risks. He usually makes good calls on young players. O'Quinn. Galloway even was a good find (We should have kept him). Kuz. Baker. Plumlee. Obviously KP and Willy. He took short term risk on Jennigs and Rose. Good deal for Lee. The problem for Phil has been that he thinks he's still coaching. He's not. He was such a great coach, that all you needed to give him was a talented team and he would figure out ways. He thinks all coaches need that. Not true. Hornachek is a good coach, but ages removed from what Phil could do. Horny needs more of a D'Antoni type of roster. Not as much small ball, and 3 point shooting, but similar make up. Speed. Excellent athleticism. No ball dominant wing. Phil has probably figured that out now, seeing that he offered Melo for Love. However when he built these Knicks teams, he built them thinking he was going to coach them. That's been his biggest mistake. He's no longer a coach. He has to build the team the way his current coach, the system his current coach has, needs.
He is smart enough where I think he sees that and sees what Horny needs. The question is whether he can actually make the changes needed quick enough. Hornachek won't survive a slow start next season.
agree to a point. I take both Phil and Jeff at their word that they want system basketball. I have seen very little of that on the first unit but see it on the second. I place that blame on the players not the coaches. They are going rogue. Second unit players are doing what the coach says because they know the consequences if they don't -- ride the pine. Likewise, the first unit consitently comes out flat on D in the first quarter (how many 30 point first quarters). They're not tired -- game just started. Now that could be defensive scheme but given the fact that this happens against essentially every team, I place blame on the players for not coming out with the right tenacity. Second unit gets after it. A long way of saying I think Phil is doing great; and I like Hornacek; we need a roster shuffle and accountability.
HofstraBBall wrote:crzymdups wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:crzymdups wrote:Cavs lost to the KINGS at home tonight. Our old friend Arron Afflalo hit the game winning three.
Did Love play?
Just thinking. Man must be tough in that lockerroom or for Love. He must know that LBJ is essentially saying trade him for Melo.
Yeah, Love played he had 21pts 16reb 5ast... he's playing well for them this year.
Weirdly, I think the Cavs miss JR Smith a lot right now.
JR is looking good right now, with them losing. Love is a very good player and is playing well this year. Dont think he is their problem. Just wonder how he would fit with KP. But here is the thing, as mentioned many times, why would any team that gets a call from Phil want to trade anything substantial? Think Phil got overly excited when he thought LBJ would want "A play maker" He didn't realize LBG meant a PG. And did he forget the "Posee" comment. Why would LBJ want to help UNcle Phil out? The big thing for me, against a Melo trade, is how anyone expects that other teams will offer much for a guy with NTC. They know if Phil comes a calling, they are one of maybe 2 teams Melo wants to go to. Not the best position to be in when trying to negotiate.
bold = my exact question too
re melo, Phil has leverage. Lebron is smart enough to know that they probably should have lost last year. Kicking dray out was a bit of a payback for OKC series, and to extend the Cavs series. GS is stronger now than then. He and the Cavs know this. Do you think a small tweak move is going to do it? they don't need any move to make the finals, but they probably need something like this to win.
