This was a bad loss in the sense where it just shows we aren't capable of putting together much. We got beat by a bad team and Rose got badly outplayed by Curry. KP struggled with fouls and on defense, partly because of the fouls, but at least did some good things on the offensive end considering his minutes. Willy put up huge numbers again, and is already better than Noah. Knicks need to fully commit to giving Willy big minutes. They should look to deal Rose, who has been useless as a starting PG, but can offer solid value as a 6th man somewhere, and maybe get a late 1st or early 2nd round pick. At least cut back his minutes and maybe give Jennings an extended look at PG. Also should make sure to get Baker 15-20 min every game. Willy, KP, Melo, and Jennings should be on the floor a lot together. Melo can still be apart of this, his scoring is always needed, but we need to commit to KP and Willy and be consistent in the message we are sending that they are our current core for the youth movement and invest time and effort into their development.
Agreed. Bench guys who stink or who don't care enough to play at both ends or w a sense of urgency. Play youth. Worst case we get a better pick. Best case we develop our future.
Chandler wrote:Agreed. Bench guys who stink or who don't care enough to play at both ends or w a sense of urgency. Play youth. Worst case we get a better pick. Best case we develop our future.
It's really not a bad place to be, we have a couple great young players and our own 1st round pick, plus 2 2nd rounders. KP will get his mojo back, and Willy looks really, really good. I like the future with them in the frontcourt. Willy does all the dirty work, so it's a nice balance.
Knixkik wrote:Chandler wrote:Agreed. Bench guys who stink or who don't care enough to play at both ends or w a sense of urgency. Play youth. Worst case we get a better pick. Best case we develop our future.
It's really not a bad place to be, we have a couple great young players and our own 1st round pick, plus 2 2nd rounders. KP will get his mojo back, and Willy looks really, really good. I like the future with them in the frontcourt. Willy does all the dirty work, so it's a nice balance.
Yeah Phil needs to stop messing around and go with a Youth Movement. Rose and Melo can score but the team needs a LEGIT PG talent that can run a team and make SMART BASKETBALL decisions. The foundation in the front court is in place. We just gotta draft a great young PG.
nixluva wrote:Knixkik wrote:Chandler wrote:Agreed. Bench guys who stink or who don't care enough to play at both ends or w a sense of urgency. Play youth. Worst case we get a better pick. Best case we develop our future.
It's really not a bad place to be, we have a couple great young players and our own 1st round pick, plus 2 2nd rounders. KP will get his mojo back, and Willy looks really, really good. I like the future with them in the frontcourt. Willy does all the dirty work, so it's a nice balance.
Yeah Phil needs to stop messing around and go with a Youth Movement. Rose and Melo can score but the team needs a LEGIT PG talent that can run a team and make SMART BASKETBALL decisions. The foundation in the front court is in place. We just gotta draft a great young PG.
Moving Rose might be the first step. Not sure what is wrong but this team is a mess.
Theyll play the guys they think they can win with. Its strange but they are as close to Miami in 14th place as they are to the 8th seed. The east is really really bad--what an opportunity to go far in the playoffs. But at the end of the day it would be in our best interests to get a high draft pick.
This team can not get into the playoffs. No way. They had a chance when KP was playing like an all-star, but when KP got the achilles injury he's been exremely limited and we're relying on Melo/Rose ball to win games. We won't make the playoffs, I'm sure of this.
We'll be drafting in decent position. Where exactly remains to be seen. Lottery is all but a lock.
What I'm peeved about is it seems Horny isn't going to bench Noah, lower Melo's minutes and have a tighter leash on Rose because of the consequences of that in the locker room. Since Rose pouted that Baker got his minutes, went MIA for a day, Rose has gotten rewarded with more playing time and more shots. Noah continues to start regardless of how well O'Quinn and Willy play. Melo is in the Kobe/Jordan role.
I can't see any real commitment to the young guys until Phil pulls of a major trade. We have to at the very least deal one of Noah, Melo or Rose. One, has to go by deadline to open up that sort of playing time and opportunities. Noah forget about it. No one is touching that contract. Leaves Melo or Rose.
There's just no point to get to the playoffs. We'd be swept in the first round by anyone we face.
Tank baby tank.
Even if you keep Melo - it's time to look into moving DRose as a playoffs rental to someone. Even for just a second round pick or one decent young prospect on Justin Holiday's level.
I would be fine to trade Melo, but if he wants to stay here I'm ok. Maybe convince him to take March and April off to get a good pick though. But then again, why the heck would Melo want to let yet another year of the end of his prime waste away and hope the Knicks get a good draft pick?
Going to Cleveland really is Melo's best bet. He could help Lebron beat Golden State.
My guess is Melo will back down and accept a trade. It's the only smart play for him. This just isn't working and Rose is not the PG he needed. Rose is basically another version of Melo. Rose is fine as a scoring guard but he simply CAN'T RUN A TEAM!!!
This team is too inconsistent it is always something. The problem is the team lacks on ball defenders and you can not count on Jennings or Rose.
I think we have to try to get anything we can for Rose. Problem is, he might be helping the tank. But it was a nice gamble, now time to move on. Melo can stay, that's fine. He just needs to know what the deal is. Phil needs to hit on this pick and look for young, value signings in free agency. If melo wants to stick around, phil could sell him that getting younger, more athletic and improving pg play and overall fit will attribute to more wins. That, and the improvements from KP and Willy. We will improve greatly next year simply with improvement from these 2 young guys and finding good complimentary players who fit better.
And another thing, I'm not saying tank with this thread. I'm saying switch gears and focus on the guys who will be here long term and let's see where that gets us.
If I was the GM I would trade O'Quinn, Jennings, and Kuz. I know Kuz is a fan favorite but he will be a 28 y/o free agent after next year and will not be worth the money in keeping him unless he becomes a solid defender.
nixluva wrote:My guess is Melo will back down and accept a trade. It's the only smart play for him. This just isn't working and Rose is not the PG he needed. Rose is basically another version of Melo. Rose is fine as a scoring guard but he simply CAN'T RUN A TEAM!!!
Rose isn't even fine as a scoring guard because he scores so inefficiently
yellowboy90 wrote:nixluva wrote:My guess is Melo will back down and accept a trade. It's the only smart play for him. This just isn't working and Rose is not the PG he needed. Rose is basically another version of Melo. Rose is fine as a scoring guard but he simply CAN'T RUN A TEAM!!!
Rose isn't even fine as a scoring guard because he scores so inefficiently
Yeah I know Rose isn't efficient but I like his ability to get to the rim which is pretty much the only guy we have that can do that. If he's not ball dominant and playing as a SG I can live with him. Just can't live with not having a legit PG.
nixluva wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:nixluva wrote:My guess is Melo will back down and accept a trade. It's the only smart play for him. This just isn't working and Rose is not the PG he needed. Rose is basically another version of Melo. Rose is fine as a scoring guard but he simply CAN'T RUN A TEAM!!!
Rose isn't even fine as a scoring guard because he scores so inefficiently
Yeah I know Rose isn't efficient but I like his ability to get to the rim which is pretty much the only guy we have that can do that. If he's not ball dominant and playing as a SG I can live with him. Just can't live with not having a legit PG.
The problem goes back to his defense. The guy is basically a bigger Monta Ellis which is really bad.
Might as well go young..Given the dysfunction that's hovering over this organization, no vets will come here..
nixluva wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:nixluva wrote:My guess is Melo will back down and accept a trade. It's the only smart play for him. This just isn't working and Rose is not the PG he needed. Rose is basically another version of Melo. Rose is fine as a scoring guard but he simply CAN'T RUN A TEAM!!!
Rose isn't even fine as a scoring guard because he scores so inefficiently
Yeah I know Rose isn't efficient but I like his ability to get to the rim which is pretty much the only guy we have that can do that. If he's not ball dominant and playing as a SG I can live with him. Just can't live with not having a legit PG.
Rose gets to the rim, but ends up so far behind the basket on every attempt that if it doesn't go in its an automatic fast break for the other team. Plus he never gets to the line. His drives to the basket cause more bad than good to be honest. The only shot that is really effective is his floater.
Knixkik wrote:nixluva wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:nixluva wrote:My guess is Melo will back down and accept a trade. It's the only smart play for him. This just isn't working and Rose is not the PG he needed. Rose is basically another version of Melo. Rose is fine as a scoring guard but he simply CAN'T RUN A TEAM!!!
Rose isn't even fine as a scoring guard because he scores so inefficiently
Yeah I know Rose isn't efficient but I like his ability to get to the rim which is pretty much the only guy we have that can do that. If he's not ball dominant and playing as a SG I can live with him. Just can't live with not having a legit PG.
Rose gets to the rim, but ends up so far behind the basket on every attempt that if it doesn't go in its an automatic fast break for the other team. Plus he never gets to the line. His drives to the basket cause more bad than good to be honest. The only shot that is really effective is his floater.
Do u think this is fixable? E.g. If he attacked the front of the rim do u think he would draw more contact?
nixluva wrote:My guess is Melo will back down and accept a trade. It's the only smart play for him. This just isn't working and Rose is not the PG he needed. Rose is basically another version of Melo. Rose is fine as a scoring guard but he simply CAN'T RUN A TEAM!!!
You have come around on Rose, haven't you? The thing is Melo can't win. No matter what you put around him. That's why we need to trade him. Not for any other reason. I still doubt he will waive the NTC though.
meloshouldgo wrote:nixluva wrote:My guess is Melo will back down and accept a trade. It's the only smart play for him. This just isn't working and Rose is not the PG he needed. Rose is basically another version of Melo. Rose is fine as a scoring guard but he simply CAN'T RUN A TEAM!!!
You have come around on Rose, haven't you? The thing is Melo can't win. No matter what you put around him. That's why we need to trade him. Not for any other reason. I still doubt he will waive the NTC though.
Menlo can win, he is a very good basketball player.
He just can't win as the leader and alpha of the team.
Team USA he plays brilliant.
He would play great with CP3 in LA.
I think he would be great in Cleveland with Bron and Kyrie, eventually.
He was also good in his prime when there was a leader with him at the point guard like Billups or Kidd.
Phil has made a big mistake since coming here almost 3 years ago in thinking that Melo could win in the Jordan or Kobe role. Yes he has the talent to do that but not the mindset. He is a laid back nice chill guy who likes to have fun. He doesn't commit to defence. Kobe or Jordan were tough and extremely volatile competitors. They would get on teammates for poor play or lack of effort. It's a shame Melo lacks that extra gear because talent wise he has it all, man. Too bad Phil also never realized that Melo needed a veteran leader at point next to him not a scoring guard like Rose. Rose has failed miserably in adjusting his game for Melo. No leadership at all from Rose. It's so frustrating watching Rose and Melo play because the talent is there but neither has adjusted their game at all to make it better for the team. Both just like to play a certain way and completely ignore the importance of the things that leaders do for the team.
I actually like Melo a lot. Rose I do not like much. For the Knicks rebuilding should be the only option right now.
