Knicks · Is Jae Crowder, Amir Johnson and Jerebko enough for Melo? A Case That It Is... (page 4)
newyorker4ever wrote:SocraticBallin22 wrote:There are new reports surfacing today that Boston has renewed interest in trading for Melo before the deadline and that Knicks scouts have been at Celtic games recently. While I would love to acquire Boston's 1st round pick this year, which will be swapped for Brooklyn's pick and will most likely end up a top 3 lottery pick;--realistically, there is no way a prudent GM like Ainge would ever relinquish this pick for Melo to a GM who has made it publicly known he is desperate to unload his star, and whose said star holds a no trade clause and will only go to a hand selected amount of teams. This diminishes his trade value,although he has helped his stock the last few games while playing at the 4 putting up monstrous, old Melo-like numbers.Which brings me to my question: would you trade Melo for Crowder, Amir Johnson and Jerebko. On the surface it looks like we're not yielding much back in return, but I can make a strong case how this instantly helps our team and rebuilding.
1) Amir Johnson and Jerebko are expiring contracts. By trading Melo for these two contracts--not the players--we shed almost 20 million off the cap this summer. Add to that the 21 million that will come off the books at the end of the year for Rose's contract (no we are NOT extending him), we will have over 40 million dollars of cap flexibility going forward for our rebuilding process. By keeping Melo, we are stuck wit ha max contract for 2 more seasons after this one for a player who will not be a MAX player anymore (many would argue he is not a max player mpw with his athleticism eroding).
2) I must admit I did not know much about Jae Crowder until I did some research on him recently. All I knew was that he was a 2nd round pick, overachieving type of player whose known for his defense (something our team desperately needs). I also knew that Phil had interest in him last offseason, so he does like the player. In checking his stats this year, I was blown away. He is the starting small forward for one of the best teams in the eastern conference and here are his numbers:
In his last 10 games, he is averaging 18ppg and 6 rebounds shooting .517 from the field, while playing plus defense. Small sample size, right?
Well for the season, he is averaging 14ppg, 5 rebounds shooting .488 from the field and get this--the kicker--.427 from 3 point range! If that's not a prototypical 3 and D player, I don't know what is. He has developed his jump shot the last two years and is now a 2 way player (something we know Melo is not).
Moreover, he's only 26 years old and on a very friendly contract of about 6 million per year for the next 3 years, which coincide with his prime years of playing basketball (a huge asset).
If you plug him into the 3 to replace Melo, we instantly become a lot better defensively--our main weakness this year--while he still provides plenty of offense as a role player. Moreover, if you surround the court with the likes of Crowder, Lee (one of the best 3 point shooters in the league), Holiday, Baker and of course KP--we would become one of the deadliest 3 point shooting teams in the league!
In sum, we would shed 40 million dollars of payroll at the end of the season, add a young, talented and offensively developing role player like Crowder to our core, while still having our 1st round pick this summer, which will have a better chance of being a lottery pick--further enhancing the true rebuild and building around KP for the future.
In an ideal world, I would want a 1st round pick in return for Melo, but that may not be feasible right now, and this deal still has plenty of value for us and would serve the purpose of rebuilding.
Thoughts?!?
I'm trying to figure out how Phil has made it publicly known that he's desperate to unload Melo?? I haven't heard anything at all publicly from Phil so if you have then please share?? I've heard plenty of our garbage new york press people say that but nothing from Phil or even S.Mills. I don't understand how anyone that's a fan of any new york sports team doesn't know how bad our press people are about making things up to make these new york teams look bad cause it's what they do and always have done especially when it comes to the Knicks. We don't know if they're desperate to trade Melo cause we haven't heard anything from them so we don't know if they're willing to take back a bad return like has been reported just to get rid of him, i hope not but we don't know.
STOP LISTENING TO OUR GARBAGE AZZ NEW YORK PRESS IDIOTS.
There is some chatter but it would be hard to keep the clandestine Phil totally under the radar if he is talking with teams.
My take is Phil is quiet and we'll get blindsided by a deal if one materializes. Only way it leaks is when its close. Why drag it thru the media.
I am of the opinion there is conversation otherwise Melo or knicks would issue a statement of denial. Melo is a solid pro and has been down this road before so its no big deal for him or the knicks.
Pro players know its a business.
I mentioned Ibaka because he is a free agent to be and Orlando is regretting.
Knicks not the only team that makes mistakes. Orlando has been badly run for years.
Keep talking to every and any team interested to gauge and narrow your deals down to 2-3 plausible teams and deals. In 2-3 weeks when the deadline approaches (not day of) you approach Melo. Simply be honest... "hey, we are 5+ games under .500, we are the 11th seed and teams have a couple offers out to us, do you want to accept a trade to A or B or stay? Keep in mind if you stay we our play is to take a step back and be more involved in the draft."
Just play it straight. These are grown men
nixluva wrote:IMO it's not about KP being ready or not. Like any young player he's gonna grow into his body and wherever he ends up we'll adjust to that but the entire idea is to BUILD the team up!!! The kid is 7-3 so he's not expected to run the team. We were ALWAYS going to need guards around him that can run the team and fully take advantage of KP's great talent.Boston really NEEDS to seriously consider getting Melo. They shouldn't waste their opportunity to take a shot at the Finals when they are within striking distance. Melo could put them over the top in the East. Why let holding on to a draft pick when you have so many, get in the way?
Because they're trying to get J.Butler is why they're not ready to go for Melo IMO. I think J.Butler is who they want right now and i actually think they're gonna get him, they clearly have the assets to get him and he's a much better fit for the team they have. Maybe if they fail in getting him they'll go harder for Melo.
newyorker4ever wrote:nixluva wrote:IMO it's not about KP being ready or not. Like any young player he's gonna grow into his body and wherever he ends up we'll adjust to that but the entire idea is to BUILD the team up!!! The kid is 7-3 so he's not expected to run the team. We were ALWAYS going to need guards around him that can run the team and fully take advantage of KP's great talent.Boston really NEEDS to seriously consider getting Melo. They shouldn't waste their opportunity to take a shot at the Finals when they are within striking distance. Melo could put them over the top in the East. Why let holding on to a draft pick when you have so many, get in the way?
Because they're trying to get J.Butler is why they're not ready to go for Melo IMO. I think J.Butler is who they want right now and i actually think they're gonna get him, they clearly have the assets to get him and he's a much better fit for the team they have. Maybe if they fail in getting him they'll go harder for Melo.
I think you are right that they want Butler, but Butler is going to cost them alot. The Knicks would take Crowder, a first round pick (Boston's pick which will be 20-25), and cap relief for Melo. That leaves Boston with all of their other picks, Jaylen Brown, and their other young players. Chicago is going to want probably Jaylen Brown and Brooklyn's pick (likely top-3) and maybe something else for Butler.
fishmike wrote:no urgency here... just keep playing it straight.Keep talking to every and any team interested to gauge and narrow your deals down to 2-3 plausible teams and deals. In 2-3 weeks when the deadline approaches (not day of) you approach Melo. Simply be honest... "hey, we are 5+ games under .500, we are the 11th seed and teams have a couple offers out to us, do you want to accept a trade to A or B or stay? Keep in mind if you stay we our play is to take a step back and be more involved in the draft."
Just play it straight. These are grown men
I completely agree with you here FM. Melo has been an excellent citizen thru all of this. Playing it straight is our best approach. Everyone knows the ball is in Melo's court. If he doesn't mind that we're oing to play our yoots and try to max our lottey prospects this summer, then that's his choice.
I still think we should unload our other valuable vet assets if we can get picks (i.e., Lee, Rose, KOQ, and yes, Noah.)
Moonangie wrote:I agree 100% and I think that should be part of the conversation... Let him know that we will be fielding offers for those guys as well and all focus will be on long term growth.fishmike wrote:no urgency here... just keep playing it straight.Keep talking to every and any team interested to gauge and narrow your deals down to 2-3 plausible teams and deals. In 2-3 weeks when the deadline approaches (not day of) you approach Melo. Simply be honest... "hey, we are 5+ games under .500, we are the 11th seed and teams have a couple offers out to us, do you want to accept a trade to A or B or stay? Keep in mind if you stay we our play is to take a step back and be more involved in the draft."
Just play it straight. These are grown men
I completely agree with you here FM. Melo has been an excellent citizen thru all of this. Playing it straight is our best approach. Everyone knows the ball is in Melo's court. If he doesn't mind that we're oing to play our yoots and try to max our lottey prospects this summer, then that's his choice.
I still think we should unload our other valuable vet assets if we can get picks (i.e., Lee, Rose, KOQ, and yes, Noah.)
People make out tons of drama where none needs to be. Blame is not needed either. It just is what it is... Phil's job is what's best for Knicks. Melo's job is whats best for Melo. No reason these guys cant be honest with each other. How Phil plays this out may impact future FAs as well... stay classy
fishmike wrote:Moonangie wrote:I agree 100% and I think that should be part of the conversation... Let him know that we will be fielding offers for those guys as well and all focus will be on long term growth.fishmike wrote:no urgency here... just keep playing it straight.Keep talking to every and any team interested to gauge and narrow your deals down to 2-3 plausible teams and deals. In 2-3 weeks when the deadline approaches (not day of) you approach Melo. Simply be honest... "hey, we are 5+ games under .500, we are the 11th seed and teams have a couple offers out to us, do you want to accept a trade to A or B or stay? Keep in mind if you stay we our play is to take a step back and be more involved in the draft."
Just play it straight. These are grown men
I completely agree with you here FM. Melo has been an excellent citizen thru all of this. Playing it straight is our best approach. Everyone knows the ball is in Melo's court. If he doesn't mind that we're oing to play our yoots and try to max our lottey prospects this summer, then that's his choice.
I still think we should unload our other valuable vet assets if we can get picks (i.e., Lee, Rose, KOQ, and yes, Noah.)
People make out tons of drama where none needs to be. Blame is not needed either. It just is what it is... Phil's job is what's best for Knicks. Melo's job is whats best for Melo. No reason these guys cant be honest with each other. How Phil plays this out may impact future FAs as well... stay classy
I agree... I also think that putting feelers out there and trying to build a market for Melo is the smart way to go. We can't afford to get back Glenn Rice, Luc Lungley, and Travis Knight