Knicks · Is Jae Crowder, Amir Johnson and Jerebko enough for Melo? A Case That It Is... (page 3)
CrushAlot wrote:I really like Crowder. He was an undersized power forward in college that was really likable. He did not seem like he could make it with his size but he has become a really good player. I think you have to hope to get a couple of picks and a youngster. I believe they have to make a decision with their back court and might move Smart because of that. BK's picks aren't being moved but the Celts have a lot of assets. They would be the preferred trade partner of the teams mentioned.
I was thinking we may need to move Oquinn in that deal to sweeten it more the Celtics
SocraticBallin22 wrote:crzymdups wrote:I'd want Crowder and either Marcus Smart - OR - a Boston 1st round pick (not this year's pick they can swap with Brooklyn)I might settle for Crowder and Smart.
They also have Minnesota's second round pick this year, pick 37 right now. I'd want that as well.
I really do like Crowder a lot. But you need Smart or the 1st round pick back. You really do.
I agree Crowder would be an outstanding fit here.If we were able to get Crowder and Smart with that high 2nd round pick you mentioned this year in a deep draft, that would be a slam dunk. I'd sign right now, but would Ainge be willing to give up Smart--a 22 year old, #6 overall pick on his rookie contract? I would even throw in KO in the deal to make it happen, which would free up time for both Willy and Plum at the 5. KO has value.
But............
Good for phil to start this early. Lebron is a little thin skinned and coming undone. Not sure Dan Gilbert has had enough. For Him to trade Love might be going back on a promise he made to him when they resigned him. At that note, waiving Noah after half a season seems to be a bit short sighted. Even if we are not contending today, Noah is in NY a place he wants to be, and while fans are quick to move on, players are people and we recruited him here as much as he wants to be here. He can mentor Willy and other yoots. He also is not as awful s we project him. His contract in today's NBA is also not as terrible. But thats just an opinion.
Regarding Trades, Boston needs a rim stopper and defensive 5 so trading Amir would be difficult for them to make a serious run. KOQ is not that same guy. Olynk is not that guy. For Boston to really succeed, they need him. Boston has a glut of guards and thats where they need to shed a player.
Boston would be foolish to trade one of those BKN picks, but if any it would be the 2018 pick in my opinion.
Leborn and Cav's not doing well does create an interesting dynamic especially with Cav's prospectively trading Love to Celtics when they are the very two teams that might be the best of the east.
"Melo don't like Boston even as a kid".......Well, thats a child's perspective, he is a man now.....C'mon!!!
La La and his kid has to have some place here to consider. Clippers obviously makes sense regarding his family.
Ibaka to Boston does make a lot of sense. Boston makes a strong move could motivate Cleveland to make a play for Love. Does Love in Orlando make sense? Is Orlando our third team? Ibaka to NY, Love to orlando and Melo to Clev?
Obviously we have to also trade KOQ or Willy. as well or we'll have a logjam at the position. Noah is not tradable because of his contract and I don't think you trade free agents so fast unless Noah is down with it.
Just thoughts, nothing more.
CrushAlot wrote:Vmart wrote:Got to get the Nets pick out of any deal with Boston. People think Phil is the desperate one not so I think the Boston is the desperate team in this because they can win a championship if the get Melo or give the Cavs a run for their money. Adding Melo definitely puts them above the Raptors.They aren't giving up the BK pick.
Agreed. No way on earth. Not w this draft and Melos age
nixluva wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Vmart wrote:Got to get the Nets pick out of any deal with Boston. People think Phil is the desperate one not so I think the Boston is the desperate team in this because they can win a championship if the get Melo or give the Cavs a run for their money. Adding Melo definitely puts them above the Raptors.They aren't giving up the BK pick.MAN you've gotta try tho 😜 I'd be trying every angle, every dig at Boston not being able to beat the Cavs!!! 😁
Not gonna happen. Keep in mind celts are not in "this year" mode. Sure they'd like to make a run but their key players are young. They are not desperate. And when they make trades it's of the al Jefferson for kg sort. Their biggest concern is they have too many picks. They have a few guys stashed. A bunch of new picks. And a backlog of current roster players w no minutes to play. They want to certainly get an impact player but there is absolutely zero chance it will be for bkln pick
Just last night mchale was saying he didn't see Melo on celts at all because he stops the ball
The desperate teams are cavs and clips. Lebron wants more titles and he knows GS is currently better
Cp3 window is just about closed especially w sas gs and Houston. They need more talent
My guess is love to celts Melo to cavs and picks etc to Knicks.
Chandler wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Vmart wrote:Got to get the Nets pick out of any deal with Boston. People think Phil is the desperate one not so I think the Boston is the desperate team in this because they can win a championship if the get Melo or give the Cavs a run for their money. Adding Melo definitely puts them above the Raptors.They aren't giving up the BK pick.Agreed. No way on earth. Not w this draft and Melos age
I agree, you have a better shot of asking for a pick swap in this year's draft (nets and ours, we get whichever is higher) as the top 3 picks will be PGs which celtics don't need any more of. Even then very unlikely - only have a hope in hell if Love was involved
I don't see them dealing for Melo. They probably already somewhat regret the Horford deal. I could see them deal Horford and a pick for Melo. That's it. I can't see them deal any young in prime players for Melo.
nyknickzingis wrote:Boston is second in the East and has cap space this summer for a max player in his prime as well as a lottery pick.I don't see them dealing for Melo. They probably already somewhat regret the Horford deal. I could see them deal Horford and a pick for Melo. That's it. I can't see them deal any young in prime players for Melo.
They like horford a lot. The other night he was like 1-10 and still was like a +1 because despite poor shooting he had a ton of great assists, good defense etc.
smackeddog wrote:Chandler wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Vmart wrote:Got to get the Nets pick out of any deal with Boston. People think Phil is the desperate one not so I think the Boston is the desperate team in this because they can win a championship if the get Melo or give the Cavs a run for their money. Adding Melo definitely puts them above the Raptors.They aren't giving up the BK pick.Agreed. No way on earth. Not w this draft and Melos age
I agree, you have a better shot of asking for a pick swap in this year's draft (nets and ours, we get whichever is higher) as the top 3 picks will be PGs which celtics don't need any more of. Even then very unlikely - only have a hope in hell if Love was involved
They're not swapping. PGs at top of draft are elite. More likely they trade some of their existing guys (smart and rosier are traded).
Chandler wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:Boston is second in the East and has cap space this summer for a max player in his prime as well as a lottery pick.I don't see them dealing for Melo. They probably already somewhat regret the Horford deal. I could see them deal Horford and a pick for Melo. That's it. I can't see them deal any young in prime players for Melo.
They like horford a lot. The other night he was like 1-10 and still was like a +1 because despite poor shooting he had a ton of great assists, good defense etc.
I can't see them adding Melo to Horford. Makes their identity as a team change too much. What they need is a great shooter at the 2. If they get a great off the ball threat they can challenge the Cavs: I don't think trading defense (Crowder) for offense (Melo) helps them overall. As better as Melo is on offense, he also takes the ball out of the hands of Isiah and also stalls their offense. Defensively Crowder is a key piece for them. No way I see them make that trade but if we got Crowder, I'd do it and love it.
nyknickzingis wrote:Chandler wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:Boston is second in the East and has cap space this summer for a max player in his prime as well as a lottery pick.I don't see them dealing for Melo. They probably already somewhat regret the Horford deal. I could see them deal Horford and a pick for Melo. That's it. I can't see them deal any young in prime players for Melo.
They like horford a lot. The other night he was like 1-10 and still was like a +1 because despite poor shooting he had a ton of great assists, good defense etc.
I can't see them adding Melo to Horford. Makes their identity as a team change too much. What they need is a great shooter at the 2. If they get a great off the ball threat they can challenge the Cavs: I don't think trading defense (Crowder) for offense (Melo) helps them overall. As better as Melo is on offense, he also takes the ball out of the hands of Isiah and also stalls their offense. Defensively Crowder is a key piece for them. No way I see them make that trade but if we got Crowder, I'd do it and love it.
I don't think Melo goes to celts. It would be a 3 way w celts assets to Knicks
Maybe love goes to celts. Maybe reddick goes to celts
They like crowder here but they will make a strong play for Hayward this off season. Stevens was his college coach and Hayward won't have to contend w GS SAS Houston clips out west
They also have a first round French stash pick who on draft night sounded a little like crowder. Undersized but athletic and tough PF
Crowder, 1 1st round pick, cap space.
Smart, 2 1st round picks. Cap space.
Jaylen Brown, 1 1st round pick, cap space.
Rivers, 2 1st round picks, cap space.
And I'm not referring to Brooklyn Picks. We're talking Celtics 2018, clippers 2019 (via boston), clippers 2021 type picks.
SocraticBallin22 wrote:There are new reports surfacing today that Boston has renewed interest in trading for Melo before the deadline and that Knicks scouts have been at Celtic games recently. While I would love to acquire Boston's 1st round pick this year, which will be swapped for Brooklyn's pick and will most likely end up a top 3 lottery pick;--realistically, there is no way a prudent GM like Ainge would ever relinquish this pick for Melo to a GM who has made it publicly known he is desperate to unload his star, and whose said star holds a no trade clause and will only go to a hand selected amount of teams. This diminishes his trade value,although he has helped his stock the last few games while playing at the 4 putting up monstrous, old Melo-like numbers.Which brings me to my question: would you trade Melo for Crowder, Amir Johnson and Jerebko. On the surface it looks like we're not yielding much back in return, but I can make a strong case how this instantly helps our team and rebuilding.
1) Amir Johnson and Jerebko are expiring contracts. By trading Melo for these two contracts--not the players--we shed almost 20 million off the cap this summer. Add to that the 21 million that will come off the books at the end of the year for Rose's contract (no we are NOT extending him), we will have over 40 million dollars of cap flexibility going forward for our rebuilding process. By keeping Melo, we are stuck wit ha max contract for 2 more seasons after this one for a player who will not be a MAX player anymore (many would argue he is not a max player mpw with his athleticism eroding).
2) I must admit I did not know much about Jae Crowder until I did some research on him recently. All I knew was that he was a 2nd round pick, overachieving type of player whose known for his defense (something our team desperately needs). I also knew that Phil had interest in him last offseason, so he does like the player. In checking his stats this year, I was blown away. He is the starting small forward for one of the best teams in the eastern conference and here are his numbers:
In his last 10 games, he is averaging 18ppg and 6 rebounds shooting .517 from the field, while playing plus defense. Small sample size, right?
Well for the season, he is averaging 14ppg, 5 rebounds shooting .488 from the field and get this--the kicker--.427 from 3 point range! If that's not a prototypical 3 and D player, I don't know what is. He has developed his jump shot the last two years and is now a 2 way player (something we know Melo is not).
Moreover, he's only 26 years old and on a very friendly contract of about 6 million per year for the next 3 years, which coincide with his prime years of playing basketball (a huge asset).
If you plug him into the 3 to replace Melo, we instantly become a lot better defensively--our main weakness this year--while he still provides plenty of offense as a role player. Moreover, if you surround the court with the likes of Crowder, Lee (one of the best 3 point shooters in the league), Holiday, Baker and of course KP--we would become one of the deadliest 3 point shooting teams in the league!
In sum, we would shed 40 million dollars of payroll at the end of the season, add a young, talented and offensively developing role player like Crowder to our core, while still having our 1st round pick this summer, which will have a better chance of being a lottery pick--further enhancing the true rebuild and building around KP for the future.
In an ideal world, I would want a 1st round pick in return for Melo, but that may not be feasible right now, and this deal still has plenty of value for us and would serve the purpose of rebuilding.
Thoughts?!?
I'm trying to figure out how Phil has made it publicly known that he's desperate to unload Melo?? I haven't heard anything at all publicly from Phil so if you have then please share?? I've heard plenty of our garbage new york press people say that but nothing from Phil or even S.Mills. I don't understand how anyone that's a fan of any new york sports team doesn't know how bad our press people are about making things up to make these new york teams look bad cause it's what they do and always have done especially when it comes to the Knicks. We don't know if they're desperate to trade Melo cause we haven't heard anything from them so we don't know if they're willing to take back a bad return like has been reported just to get rid of him, i hope not but we don't know.
STOP LISTENING TO OUR GARBAGE AZZ NEW YORK PRESS IDIOTS.
BigDaddyG wrote:SocraticBallin22 wrote:crzymdups wrote:I'd want Crowder and either Marcus Smart - OR - a Boston 1st round pick (not this year's pick they can swap with Brooklyn)I might settle for Crowder and Smart.
They also have Minnesota's second round pick this year, pick 37 right now. I'd want that as well.
I really do like Crowder a lot. But you need Smart or the 1st round pick back. You really do.
I agree Crowder would be an outstanding fit here.If we were able to get Crowder and Smart with that high 2nd round pick you mentioned this year in a deep draft, that would be a slam dunk. I'd sign right now, but would Ainge be willing to give up Smart--a 22 year old, #6 overall pick on his rookie contract? I would even throw in KO in the deal to make it happen, which would free up time for both Willy and Plum at the 5. KO has value.
They have to re-sign Bradley and Thomas at the end of next year. Depending on how high they are on Rozier, than Smart may be available. Smart, Crowder and a future one. That's a good starting point.
Starting point?? I'd jump all over getting Crowder, Smart and a future 1st round pick.
Knixkik wrote:The way I see it, whether we trade with LA or boston, the minimum value we need in return:Sounds reasonable. Though we would have to wait, I believe those Clipper picks could be valuable as I think they are likely to return to being bad by the time those picks roll around.Crowder, 1 1st round pick, cap space.
Smart, 2 1st round picks. Cap space.
Jaylen Brown, 1 1st round pick, cap space.
Rivers, 2 1st round picks, cap space.And I'm not referring to Brooklyn Picks. We're talking Celtics 2018, clippers 2019 (via boston), clippers 2021 type picks.
Nalod wrote:Orlando might not want to resign Ibakahttp://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/report... and wonder how this might play into things. This guy next to KP might be a nice combo.Ibaka seems to have become a different player than a few years ago in OKC. His blocks per game has declined for five straight years. And to think, OKC chose to keep him instead of Harden.Ibaka to Boston does make a lot of sense. Boston makes a strong move could motivate Cleveland to make a play for Love. Does Love in Orlando make sense? Is Orlando our third team? Ibaka to NY, Love to orlando and Melo to Clev?
Obviously we have to also trade KOQ or Willy. as well or we'll have a logjam at the position. Noah is not tradable because of his contract and I don't think you trade free agents so fast unless Noah is down with it.Just thoughts, nothing more.
newyorker4ever wrote:SocraticBallin22 wrote:There are new reports surfacing today that Boston has renewed interest in trading for Melo before the deadline and that Knicks scouts have been at Celtic games recently. While I would love to acquire Boston's 1st round pick this year, which will be swapped for Brooklyn's pick and will most likely end up a top 3 lottery pick;--realistically, there is no way a prudent GM like Ainge would ever relinquish this pick for Melo to a GM who has made it publicly known he is desperate to unload his star, and whose said star holds a no trade clause and will only go to a hand selected amount of teams. This diminishes his trade value,although he has helped his stock the last few games while playing at the 4 putting up monstrous, old Melo-like numbers.Which brings me to my question: would you trade Melo for Crowder, Amir Johnson and Jerebko. On the surface it looks like we're not yielding much back in return, but I can make a strong case how this instantly helps our team and rebuilding.
1) Amir Johnson and Jerebko are expiring contracts. By trading Melo for these two contracts--not the players--we shed almost 20 million off the cap this summer. Add to that the 21 million that will come off the books at the end of the year for Rose's contract (no we are NOT extending him), we will have over 40 million dollars of cap flexibility going forward for our rebuilding process. By keeping Melo, we are stuck wit ha max contract for 2 more seasons after this one for a player who will not be a MAX player anymore (many would argue he is not a max player mpw with his athleticism eroding).
2) I must admit I did not know much about Jae Crowder until I did some research on him recently. All I knew was that he was a 2nd round pick, overachieving type of player whose known for his defense (something our team desperately needs). I also knew that Phil had interest in him last offseason, so he does like the player. In checking his stats this year, I was blown away. He is the starting small forward for one of the best teams in the eastern conference and here are his numbers:
In his last 10 games, he is averaging 18ppg and 6 rebounds shooting .517 from the field, while playing plus defense. Small sample size, right?
Well for the season, he is averaging 14ppg, 5 rebounds shooting .488 from the field and get this--the kicker--.427 from 3 point range! If that's not a prototypical 3 and D player, I don't know what is. He has developed his jump shot the last two years and is now a 2 way player (something we know Melo is not).
Moreover, he's only 26 years old and on a very friendly contract of about 6 million per year for the next 3 years, which coincide with his prime years of playing basketball (a huge asset).
If you plug him into the 3 to replace Melo, we instantly become a lot better defensively--our main weakness this year--while he still provides plenty of offense as a role player. Moreover, if you surround the court with the likes of Crowder, Lee (one of the best 3 point shooters in the league), Holiday, Baker and of course KP--we would become one of the deadliest 3 point shooting teams in the league!
In sum, we would shed 40 million dollars of payroll at the end of the season, add a young, talented and offensively developing role player like Crowder to our core, while still having our 1st round pick this summer, which will have a better chance of being a lottery pick--further enhancing the true rebuild and building around KP for the future.
In an ideal world, I would want a 1st round pick in return for Melo, but that may not be feasible right now, and this deal still has plenty of value for us and would serve the purpose of rebuilding.
Thoughts?!?
I'm trying to figure out how Phil has made it publicly known that he's desperate to unload Melo?? I haven't heard anything at all publicly from Phil so if you have then please share?? I've heard plenty of our garbage new york press people say that but nothing from Phil or even S.Mills. I don't understand how anyone that's a fan of any new york sports team doesn't know how bad our press people are about making things up to make these new york teams look bad cause it's what they do and always have done especially when it comes to the Knicks. We don't know if they're desperate to trade Melo cause we haven't heard anything from them so we don't know if they're willing to take back a bad return like has been reported just to get rid of him, i hope not but we don't know.
STOP LISTENING TO OUR GARBAGE AZZ NEW YORK PRESS IDIOTS.
There is some chatter but it would be hard to keep the clandestine Phil totally under the radar if he is talking with teams.
My take is Phil is quiet and we'll get blindsided by a deal if one materializes. Only way it leaks is when its close. Why drag it thru the media.
I am of the opinion there is conversation otherwise Melo or knicks would issue a statement of denial. Melo is a solid pro and has been down this road before so its no big deal for him or the knicks.
Pro players know its a business.
I mentioned Ibaka because he is a free agent to be and Orlando is regretting.
Knicks not the only team that makes mistakes. Orlando has been badly run for years.