Knicks · Why are the Knicks trying to move Melo before Phil Jackson? (page 4)
fishmike wrote:smackeddog wrote:you are making that argument to a guy who thought Isiah was good here.holfresh wrote:Mike and Mike ripping Phil..It's about time....You do realize that if Phil is fired, Dolan returns alongside Mills as the guiding force for this team don't you? And that they will double down on keeping melo. How would we be better off?! Heck, Dolan might even reinstall It. I wish people would think this through. If we keep Phil, we trade melo and rebuild via the draft, which is what we need to do.
and not to add gas to the fire, but a guy who thinks Melo is good here and it's Phil who should go.
knicks1248 wrote:holfresh wrote:smackeddog wrote:holfresh wrote:Mike and Mike ripping Phil..It's about time....You do realize that if Phil is fired, Dolan returns alongside Mills as the guiding force for this team don't you? And that they will double down on keeping melo. How would we be better off?! Heck, Dolan might even reinstall It. I wish people would think this through. If we keep Phil, we trade melo and rebuild via the draft, which is what we need to do.
Was thinking about that this morning and it's truly frightening...They have to come up with a better option than Mills...But Phil is garbage...At least be a man and act like you run the Knicks...Both Melo and Phil has to go..None can survive this...
its crazy how almost every sport show and media outlet is basically saying Phil hasn't a clue and needs to go, but a few loyal Phil fans want to see him stay and continue to press the reset button every yr, just because be drafted KP,
Even he rebuilds now, and wait 3 more years for playoff hopes, your looking at 7 straight yrs of no playoff basketball, and people are cool with that,
Man what are you talking about? The entire point of rebuilding is to make progress each year leading towards a winning team that can hopefully become a Title Contender. You get into the draft and do your best to build a great team. What is all this "7 straight losing years" stuff??? We would be building towards something sustainable. Lower cost and more talented players. That's what you hope to do.
What is your plan if we don't take advantage of having picks in one of the better Draft Classes?
smackeddog wrote:holfresh wrote:KnicksFE wrote:holfresh wrote:smackeddog wrote:holfresh wrote:Mike and Mike ripping Phil..It's about time....You do realize that if Phil is fired, Dolan returns alongside Mills as the guiding force for this team don't you? And that they will double down on keeping melo. How would we be better off?! Heck, Dolan might even reinstall It. I wish people would think this through. If we keep Phil, we trade melo and rebuild via the draft, which is what we need to do.
Was thinking about that this morning and it's truly frightening...They have to come up with a better option than Mills...But Phil is garbage...At least be a man and act like you run the Knicks...Both Melo and Phil has to go..None can survive this...
Again who’s to say the Knicks will rebuild thru the draft, for all we know they are NOT pushing the Celtics for young players and picks, they are pushing the Cavs HARD for Kevin Love. How is that rebuilding thru the draft? You see the Knicks haven’t show any inclination of that yet.
Don't kid yourself, no matter how anyone on this board talk about rebuild, Phil has no clue what he is doing and he isn't rebuilding...How is he not Rebuilding? He's trading away melo and he's aiming for a high pick in this draft- it's what we need to do, under this cba you can only add franchise changing talent via the draft. How is Phil mismanaging the franchise by doing this?
If he is rebuilding, why would you sign Noah and trade for Rose???..When has Phil ever said he was rebuilding???..Outside of KP, who has Phil gone after to make a cornerstone of this franchise in his three years here???
Chandler wrote:holfresh wrote:Spike Lee calls in SAS show and says what Phil is doing is called a "Punk Move" in Brooklyn....Trade Spike too!!
knicks1248 wrote:holfresh wrote:smackeddog wrote:holfresh wrote:Mike and Mike ripping Phil..It's about time....You do realize that if Phil is fired, Dolan returns alongside Mills as the guiding force for this team don't you? And that they will double down on keeping melo. How would we be better off?! Heck, Dolan might even reinstall It. I wish people would think this through. If we keep Phil, we trade melo and rebuild via the draft, which is what we need to do.
Was thinking about that this morning and it's truly frightening...They have to come up with a better option than Mills...But Phil is garbage...At least be a man and act like you run the Knicks...Both Melo and Phil has to go..None can survive this...
its crazy how almost every sport show and media outlet is basically saying Phil hasn't a clue and needs to go, but a few loyal Phil fans want to see him stay and continue to press the reset button every yr, just because be drafted KP,
Even he rebuilds now, and wait 3 more years for playoff hopes, your looking at 7 straight yrs of no playoff basketball, and people are cool with that,
The media smell blood which is why they're all piling in- Phil pissed off the my media because he stopped speaking to them (when he started he reached out to them but they carried on being disks so he stopped bothering).
I support Phil because the alternative is Dolan or IT- that's your choice, you don't get to choose your favorite GM.
We're 2 weeks away from Rebuilding the right way at last, we finally have all our firsts ahead of us, we have a piece to build around- why ruin this?
HofstraBBall wrote:Rumor is we are trying to trade Dolan and Phil for the Clips owner and GM. With a Coach to be named later. Best day in Knicks history. Other than when we won the Chip.
You still stuck with Melo.
holfresh wrote:smackeddog wrote:holfresh wrote:KnicksFE wrote:holfresh wrote:smackeddog wrote:holfresh wrote:Mike and Mike ripping Phil..It's about time....You do realize that if Phil is fired, Dolan returns alongside Mills as the guiding force for this team don't you? And that they will double down on keeping melo. How would we be better off?! Heck, Dolan might even reinstall It. I wish people would think this through. If we keep Phil, we trade melo and rebuild via the draft, which is what we need to do.
Was thinking about that this morning and it's truly frightening...They have to come up with a better option than Mills...But Phil is garbage...At least be a man and act like you run the Knicks...Both Melo and Phil has to go..None can survive this...
Again who’s to say the Knicks will rebuild thru the draft, for all we know they are NOT pushing the Celtics for young players and picks, they are pushing the Cavs HARD for Kevin Love. How is that rebuilding thru the draft? You see the Knicks haven’t show any inclination of that yet.
Don't kid yourself, no matter how anyone on this board talk about rebuild, Phil has no clue what he is doing and he isn't rebuilding...How is he not Rebuilding? He's trading away melo and he's aiming for a high pick in this draft- it's what we need to do, under this cba you can only add franchise changing talent via the draft. How is Phil mismanaging the franchise by doing this?
If he is rebuilding, why would you sign Noah and trade for Rose???..When has Phil ever said he was rebuilding???..Outside of KP, who has Phil gone after to make a cornerstone of this franchise in his three years here???
Who should he have signed? The top FAs didn't want to come here. free agency cannot be your saviour under this cba when you suck, you have to start with the draft.
He traded for rose to give winning one more shot- the aim was to make the playoffs. It didn't work but unlike previous regimes we have a backup plan and flexibility. It's obvious now we can't build a contender before melo breaks, so it's time to move him and commit to the draft. That's good for Melo, he has about 2 or 3 playoffs left in him, why squander the rest of his career?
KnicksFE wrote:Phil Jackson is the main reason why the Knicks are so bad, he is the architect of this team and he did a horrible job building it. He has not learned from his past mistakes and most of his trades/moves/signings have not workout. Phil wants to blame Melo, but it was him who put this roster together without realizing the main players he was getting were excellent THREE years ago. This past off season instead of gambling on young players with some upside, he over paid on declining veterans. Please note that I am not defending Melo, I’m just not blaming him for Phil’s HORRIBLE JOB.
I have come to hate Phil for what he's doing to Melo but just because i don't like the guy i'm not gonna try to say this is all his fault cause it's not. He put PLENTY of talent on this team to win enough games to at the very least make the 8th seed for the playoffs.
Melo
D.Rose
KP
J.Noah
C.Lee
B.Jennings
Billy
L.Thomas
KOQ
J.Holiday
That is a hell of a lot of talent right there especially for the starting unit and even without them fitting they should still be able to win games.
KnicksFE wrote:nixluva wrote:TOTALLY DISAGREE! Rose and Melo are the team leaders and have boatloads of talent. They are surrounded by some good role players. Teams win when their BEST players excel. Neither Rose nor Melo do enough on both ends not pass enough to make this team successful. That is the real reason for the team losing. Don't put this on Phil. Rose and Melo are giving less and less effort and more and more ISO and DIY offense. Noah we all know has limitations but he does give everything he has. Can't say the same for Rose and Melo tho.And who traded for Rose and gave Melo that big extension with a no trade clause? Im sure it was’t the coach. IT WAS PHIL.
So Phil gave us two star players so how is this helping your argument at all??
newyorker4ever wrote:KnicksFE wrote:nixluva wrote:TOTALLY DISAGREE! Rose and Melo are the team leaders and have boatloads of talent. They are surrounded by some good role players. Teams win when their BEST players excel. Neither Rose nor Melo do enough on both ends not pass enough to make this team successful. That is the real reason for the team losing. Don't put this on Phil. Rose and Melo are giving less and less effort and more and more ISO and DIY offense. Noah we all know has limitations but he does give everything he has. Can't say the same for Rose and Melo tho.And who traded for Rose and gave Melo that big extension with a no trade clause? Im sure it was’t the coach. IT WAS PHIL.
So Phil gave us two star players so how is this helping your argument at all??
Anybody that truly follows the NBA (Not just the Knicks) knows that Rose hasn’t been a star in a few years, and that Joakim Noah has being hurt and declining as well. The fact that he GOT BOTH OF THEM HERE IS BEYOND ME. He also gave to Melo that No Trade Clause, there is a reason why only a few players in the NBA have it, most GMS don’t want to give that power and want to keep the doors open for any trade, why did Phil cornered himself like that?
1 out of 3 on Phils part you say? Ok so I won't address drafting, should save some time. Let's talk trades then. I won't talk about smaller trades so in chronological order:
1. Our "leader" Tyson Chandler ( everyone remembers him acting like a little biatsh right before he got traded I am sure) and Raymond "doughnuts " Felton , we got 2 second rounders and Calderon - if that's not rebuilding I don't know what is. Not good but not too bad, had to be done. Neither good nor bad
2. JR and Shump for second rounder Lou Admunson and Lance Thomas. This one hurt, terrible trade Cavs got a got a first rounder out of it (from OKC )and a championship eventually. Very Bad.
3. Prigioni for Shved and 2 second rounders. Good.
4. Tim Hardaway JR. For Jeriah Grant. Good at the time, now looks worse with THJ finally stepping up. Bad.
5. 2 second rounders 2020,2021 for 2015 pick (Big Willy Style) Very Good.
6. Cash for KOQ. Very good. On a 2 trade streak now, wow
7. Jerian Grant, Calderon, Lopez for Rose, Holiday and 2 rounder. Not very bad, but still bad. Should have been good. Might be good, depends on what becomes of Holiday, might be a wash. Too early, but let's say bad for arguements sake.
Summary- 2 very good trades,1 good vs 1 very bad, 2 bad. Looks even, maybe a slight edge actually. Considering we were not trading from a position of strength (being a bad team and being usually on the receiving end of hardcore without Vaseline , pretty impressive)
Ok, now signings, again only rotation players count:
1. Langston Galloway- Good
2. Lance Thomas- Great at the time, now looks iffy. I cannot say Bad, sue me. Fine, for argument sake - Bad
3. Kevin Seraphin -Bad
4. Jennings-Good
5. Lee- very Good
6. Kuz- very Good
7. Noah- very very Bad, that's like 2 bad signings in one
8. Melo- Bad( only because of the NTC)
Summary- 2 good, 2 very good vs 3 bad , 2 very bad(both of them being Noah, hehe)
Again not so one-sided as some point out, but still on the loosing side of the scale.
So there we have it - best Knick GM since we were a playoff team , since the days of battling those Heat and Pacer teams every year. Again, this is only my subjective view and I likely did miss something, but you get the point. THIS IS WHY!!!!!! To answer the question asked by thread starter.
nixluva wrote:knicks1248 wrote:holfresh wrote:smackeddog wrote:holfresh wrote:Mike and Mike ripping Phil..It's about time....You do realize that if Phil is fired, Dolan returns alongside Mills as the guiding force for this team don't you? And that they will double down on keeping melo. How would we be better off?! Heck, Dolan might even reinstall It. I wish people would think this through. If we keep Phil, we trade melo and rebuild via the draft, which is what we need to do.
Was thinking about that this morning and it's truly frightening...They have to come up with a better option than Mills...But Phil is garbage...At least be a man and act like you run the Knicks...Both Melo and Phil has to go..None can survive this...
its crazy how almost every sport show and media outlet is basically saying Phil hasn't a clue and needs to go, but a few loyal Phil fans want to see him stay and continue to press the reset button every yr, just because be drafted KP,
Even he rebuilds now, and wait 3 more years for playoff hopes, your looking at 7 straight yrs of no playoff basketball, and people are cool with that,
Man what are you talking about? The entire point of rebuilding is to make progress each year leading towards a winning team that can hopefully become a Title Contender. You get into the draft and do your best to build a great team. What is all this "7 straight losing years" stuff??? We would be building towards something sustainable. Lower cost and more talented players. That's what you hope to do.
What is your plan if we don't take advantage of having picks in one of the better Draft Classes?
Dude theirs enough Evidence to tell you that draft sht is a hit or miss, with many more misses than hits. Its like you forgot about the 17 win season that fast, what the hell was that, was that a retool, or a rebuilt...10 new playrs and a top drft pick sound like a damn rebuild... the very next season, 10 new players, that sounds like a retool, or a rebuild?
85% of this board (including yourself) stated if the knicks did not make the playoffs this year phil should be gone. Now you want to blame it on the players he brought in not doing their job, Rose didn't come here on his own....HE BROUGHT THESE PLAYERS IN HERE, THAT HIS REPSONSIBILITY, ALL 44 PLAYERS THAT HAVE PRODUCE JACK SHT in 3 1/2 seasons, and now your talking another 3 season to build through the fckng draft..
If you keep hiring employeese that cant produce and your losing $$ every day, and your replacing them every month. tThe guy HIRING THESE GUYS CLEARLY DOESN'T KNOW WTF HE'S DOING, Get him the hell out of here, or do you just keep believing in him despite the losses...IN THE real world, the HIRING MANAGER HAS TO GO..In your world you continue to hire and fire employees. Maybe you never been a manager..
Porzingis was Phil as was Willy. Jennings was a $5 million signup a no brainer. Yet Neither Rose or Melo bringnit night in and night out. Their athleticism or lack of it is far from peaked. Kuz will stay and OUinn gin a good pickup. Replace Rose and Melo with A two way small forward who can score 20+ and is young and get a younger dynamic guard in NY and this team turns around quick. It's a rebuild but Melo is so obstinate that he'd rather plan on a sub 500 team and stay in NY than try for a ring elsewhere. Allow us to rebuild its cap space and some draft picks. Phil made mistakes and his biggest was the NTC.
Melo hasn't lost a power struggle yet.
crzymdups wrote:Saw this somewhere online -Melo hasn't lost a power struggle yet.