smackeddog wrote:Uptown wrote:CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Uptown wrote:Good for Melo! There is a right way to do things and Phils way is BS. We thought phil would bring a certain level of class and professionalism that this organization desperately needed. Instead, phil has turned out to be another clown in the msg circus. I hope phil shows up and they boo the hell out of him....
This. How can you make the Knicks into laughingstocks and the poster team for dysfunction again when you brought into change the culture.
MELO and ROSE made this a laughingstock!!! This ain't about Phil. This is about SELFISH STAR players not buying into Team ball and leading a team to wins. Melo and Rose are the 2 biggest culprits and making the most money. You can't absolve them of the blame for this team not playing well. They're the top talents with the experience and know how. So yes Phil is a JERK, but he's not losing the games. Let's try and keep things in perspective. Melo and Rose have let the team down. No winning team has their top 2 players PLAY NO D and play SELFISH on offense. Just doesn't happen.
Phil didn't even show up at Rose's press conference. He continues to disappoint. He degrades the value of the guy he is trying to trade and makes the Knicks look dysfunctional again. The guy sucks. Also, he brought Rose in and gave Melo the ntc and the trade kicker.
This...phil had a chance to move on from Melo instead, he not only re-signs him but compounds the problem with the NTC! phils actions are totally unfair because Melo has to answer for phils tweets before and after ever game. Phil is quiet, while Horny, Melo and the rest of the knicks have to clean up his mess...this is total BS! Get this clown outta here!
Is melo fair? Hornacek has backed him and stood up for him but melo has ignored his wishes all season long- no defense and constant iso melo. Melo decided a long time ago he's just going to play the way he wants regardless- how do we benefit from keeping him?
Re signing him at the time made sense because we didn't have our picks, so knicks had to have something to keep people watching. Melo would only re-sign if we agreed to a NYC (completely understandable). Now we have our picks its time for him to go
Not its not understandable...As smart a basketball mind as Phil is supposed to be, what in his right mind led him to believe Melo, after 10 plus years in the league, was all of a sudden gonna change his game? He is who we all thought he was...and iso player-shoot first player. Phil knew this ans still signed him and allowed Melo to grab him by the balls and offered him the NTC. A sign and trade was the way to go...
Regardless of that, there is no way you can condone the way phil is going about this now....What phil is doing is nothing but a big distraction as Horny has even admitted. Its not the way you do things...He has done nothing to change the culture as he claimed he would instead the circus continues...He takes these shots at his player nd leaves him and the organization to clean up his shit! Totally unprofessional and uncalled for....Hiring him was an awful mistake! Please get this clown outta here!!!
smackeddog wrote:CrushAlot wrote:holfresh wrote:Phil overplayed his hand...I thought Melo would have caved and gave him what he wanted..But the outpouring of shots at Phil might embolden him...But the Garden is toxic again, why would he want to stay...
Ha, if melo wins this dispute we're doomed- Dolan and IT will be back at the helm. We'll be stuck with iso melo for the rest of his days. I don't honestly know why any of you want this.
Melo proves Phil was right- he'd rather stay out of spite and carry on playing the way he always has regardless of what any coach wants, rather than change or go somewhere else and win. Phil is 100% right
I'm sorry but do you really believe as currently constructed, that after Melo is gone, we won't be a lottery team for the next decade???..as I have been trying to point out to Nix in other threads, Jordan showed you exactly why our frontline won't be able to compete at the 4 or 5 for the foreseeable future...Jordan has been averaging 6 pts a game without Chris Paul and poured in 28 points against us...He was too strong and quick for us...Melo at least makes these games watchable...
I also have zero confidence in Phil knowing what he is doing...Teams like this, Philly and Minny takes decades to rebuild...Some how you think we are missing the boat by not jettisoning Melo immediately..No one is coming here with Phil...
In regards to Phil, in the illustrious words of Mike Lupica, just because you can sing, doesn't mean you can dance...
If Melo is content to stay, then he has to be the bigger person and create a bridge to Phil, and perhaps compromise.
We don't know the full extent to the divide except what we read. But if Melo is "Done" talking to phil, then its not heathy to stay on either.
I'd say the same for Phil, he need to extend a hand.
What I don't know is what in gods name is phil trying to say with his cryptic messages? Is Phil upset because Melo won't adhere to the promises that Melo agreed to?
Just heard a stat..Knicks have made the playoffs just 4 times in the last 17 years...Just insane to think about that..
3 times after the Melo trade...The coach that took us to two consecutive playoff births we marginalized and fired a year later...
Nalod wrote:If Melo is content to stay, then he has to be the bigger person and create a bridge to Phil, and perhaps compromise.
We don't know the full extent to the divide except what we read. But if Melo is "Done" talking to phil, then its not heathy to stay on either.
I'd say the same for Phil, he need to extend a hand.
What I don't know is what in gods name is phil trying to say with his cryptic messages? Is Phil upset because Melo won't adhere to the promises that Melo agreed to?
No way! Melo should give the old fool a kick in his ass. Phil just doesn't give a damn. Got his money and still retired.
holfresh wrote:smackeddog wrote:CrushAlot wrote:holfresh wrote:Phil overplayed his hand...I thought Melo would have caved and gave him what he wanted..But the outpouring of shots at Phil might embolden him...But the Garden is toxic again, why would he want to stay...
Ha, if melo wins this dispute we're doomed- Dolan and IT will be back at the helm. We'll be stuck with iso melo for the rest of his days. I don't honestly know why any of you want this.
Melo proves Phil was right- he'd rather stay out of spite and carry on playing the way he always has regardless of what any coach wants, rather than change or go somewhere else and win. Phil is 100% right
I'm sorry but do you really believe as currently constructed, that after Melo is gone, we won't be a lottery team for the next decade???..as I have been trying to point out to Nix in other threads, Jordan showed you exactly why our frontline won't be able to compete at the 4 or 5 for the foreseeable future...Jordan has been averaging 6 pts a game without Chris Paul and poured in 28 points against us...He was too strong and quick for us...Melo at least makes these games watchable...
I also have zero confidence in Phil knowing what he is doing...Teams like this, Philly and Minny takes decades to rebuild...Some how you think we are missing the boat by not jettisoning Melo immediately..No one is coming here with Phil...
In regards to Phil, in the illustrious words of Mike Lupica, just because you can sing, doesn't mean you can dance...
Don't you get it? We need to be a lottery team for the next few years- there's no other realistic way of adding significant talent under this cba. Restricted fa's get maxed out, even the ones that have only shown a sparkle of potential. Unrestricted will mainly stay with their team due to the huge pay difference. One or two will go to a contender. That's just the truth.
Putting Phil aside, has anyone noticed that after years of saying that melo is a loser, ball hog, over rated, doesn't play defense, coach killer, old etc etc, now all the media are saying he's great and has been unfairly attacked (when the attack was just what they had been pushing since he became a Knick!)
smackeddog wrote:Putting Phil aside, has anyone noticed that after years of saying that melo is a loser, ball hog, over rated, doesn't play defense, coach killer, old etc etc, now all the media are saying he's great and has been unfairly attacked (when the attack was just what they had been pushing since he became a Knick!)
Yeah..Because they got to know him..They found out he is a truth teller and let the chips fall where it may...Like Oakley...People respect that kind of thing, like players around the league..
holfresh wrote:smackeddog wrote:Putting Phil aside, has anyone noticed that after years of saying that melo is a loser, ball hog, over rated, doesn't play defense, coach killer, old etc etc, now all the media are saying he's great and has been unfairly attacked (when the attack was just what they had been pushing since he became a Knick!)
Yeah..Because they got to know him..They found out he is a truth teller and let the chips fall where it may...Like Oakley...People respect that kind of thing, like players around the league..
Ha they were saying all that stuff until Phil tweeted- didn't you read all the stories that no one wanted melo and the knicks were stuck with him because he's a ball hog?
smackeddog wrote:Putting Phil aside, has anyone noticed that after years of saying that melo is a loser, ball hog, over rated, doesn't play defense, coach killer, old etc etc, now all the media are saying he's great and has been unfairly attacked (when the attack was just what they had been pushing since he became a Knick!)
Aside from the no defense stuff...I have only heard Knick fans talk about Melo like this.
Phil Jackson has 13 championships
Melo has 0
One has dinstinct knowledge on the qualities needed to become a champion.
The other has knowledge how to be a great individual scorer on bad teams.
Melo wants to stay? Of course he does
We got all he needs to be happy.
No playoffs
Pathetic defensive culture
Great city
Great fans in terms of appreciation of isolation ball skills
Great for his family
Greatest money market
Just ask would any great player in the league want to stay in NY in Melo's shoes? Westbrook? Lebron? Durant? curry? Paul?
Not a single player who cared about winning would tolerate being in this situation for years. It's not loyalty to us fans. It's loyalty to his personal interests.
On the other hand Phil lost his wife to be, he left a cushy LA lifestyle and he changed his entire living situation to come take the heat of being the new Dolan. For sure he's being paid well for it but the man was already set.
One guy is comfortable with status quo and a losing culture. The other is pushing for change and to incorporate winning habits and properly rebuild.
Both will be gone for sure in 2 years (I don't see either Melo or Phil past this contract) but I just hope Phil gets what he wants. We will have a much brighter future. For the franchises long term health they need Phil to win this batttle.
nyknickzingis wrote:Phil Jackson has 13 championships
Melo has 0One has dinstinct knowledge on the qualities needed to become a champion.
The other has knowledge how to be a great individual scorer on bad teams.
Melo wants to stay? Of course he does
We got all he needs to be happy.
No playoffs
Pathetic defensive culture
Great city
Great fans in terms of appreciation of isolation ball skills
Great for his family
Greatest money market
Just ask would any great player in the league want to stay in NY in Melo's shoes? Westbrook? Lebron? Durant? curry? Paul?
Not a single player who cared about winning would tolerate being in this situation for years. It's not loyalty to us fans. It's loyalty to his personal interests.
On the other hand Phil lost his wife to be, he left a cushy LA lifestyle and he changed his entire living situation to come take the heat of being the new Dolan. For sure he's being paid well for it but the man was already set.
One guy is comfortable with status quo and a losing culture. The other is pushing for change and to incorporate winning habits and properly rebuild.
Both will be gone for sure in 2 years (I don't see either Melo or Phil past this contract) but I just hope Phil gets what he wants. We will have a much brighter future. For the franchises long term health they need Phil to win this batttle.
Jordan had 6 rings as a player. 0 as a GM. He famously drafted Kwame Brown #1 overall and got frustrated when he couldn't will him into being an elite player.
Just because Phil wants the right thing doesn't mean he is doing the right things to get there. There have been constant reports that he puts in the fewest hours of any executive in the league. He's been called the laziest executive a few times in national reports.
So while it's nice to point to Phil's rings as a player and as a coach to three of the top players of all time... he's proving that being an executive is a different ballgame.
Melo has his share of detractors. So does Phil. Jerry Krause called him a fraud who took too much credit for Jordan's success.
If Jordan questioned a player on the Hornets, their desire to win their interest in being part of a winning team, I'd trust it.
Realize what I'm saying.
I'm not saying Phil is a good trader. A good executive or anything like that.
I'm saying he is spot on about who Melo is, what Melo brings and what the Knicks need to do with Melo.
nyknickzingis wrote:If Jordan questioned a player on the Hornets, their desire to win their interest in being part of a winning team, I'd trust it.Realize what I'm saying.
I'm not saying Phil is a good trader. A good executive or anything like that.
I'm saying he is spot on about who Melo is, what Melo brings and what the Knicks need to do with Melo.
Isn't it weird that Melo made the playoffs his first ten years in a row in the league and then Phil showed up?
If Phil didn't like who Melo was, he shouldn't have taken the job... or re-signed him as a free agent and given him not only a no-trade clause BUT ALSO a 15% trade kicker, making it almost impossible to trade him.
Phil may be right, but he's also kicking at the door he locked with a padlock.
And AGAIN, here's my real issue with it - the WAY he's doing it has made Melo double-down on staying a Knick, and made most of the league sympathetic to Melo and wanting Phil to just shut up and go away. It's a comically terrible job by him.
Should the Knicks move on from Melo and rebuild? Yes. What is literally the only reason they can't? Phil.
So a tweet....14 charecters is a public action? This is what we're talking about?
EnySpree wrote:So a tweet....14 charecters is a public action? This is what we're talking about?
Nope. We're talking about 3yrs into a 5yr $60M deal to be President of Basketball Operations for the New York Knicks.
I can't believe the amount of loyalty Phil still has here.
First year he's here he trades Tyson and Felton for pennies on the dollar, then he gives away Shumpert and JR, who go help the Cavs make two straight Finals. (Cavs get JR and Shump for FREE, so they have two first round picks to offer for Mozgov, btw)
Remember the first summer we had max cap room under Phil? People here were talking about LaMarcus Aldridge, maybe stealing RFAs Khris Middleton or Draymond Green, or maybe settling for Danny Green... maybe Greg Monroe (hey, his ws/48 shows great upside!)... summer comes NO ONE wants to come play for a 17-win Triangle team. Phil gets Rolo, Afflalo, DWill... we're told it's a great haul in spite of things and Phil has maintained flexibility. A year later, they're all gone.
Next summer Phil trades his recent first round pick (he's kept the picks! he's rebuilding!) for past his prime DRose, signs well past his prime Joakim Noah to a 4yr deal, and luckily Noah convinces Courtney Lee to come and also Brandon Jennings (okay, I like those last two).
All those moves. Not to mention giving away Tim Hardaway Jr to get Jerian Grant who was a horrible Triangle fit...
All those moves. And people say, hey if Melo just moved the ball more and would try a little more on D this team could COMPETE. Gimme a frickin break. Melo's been a soldier under Phil's disastrous attempt to be a team builder. And now the knock on Melo is that he won't leave so Phil can tie himself to Austin Rivers and Jamal Crawford (whose deals runs just as long as Melo's by the way). Gimme. a. Break.
I didn't even have the energy to go through the coaching moves, but for the record it's been four head coaches in less than three years.
crzymdups wrote:I can't believe the amount of loyalty Phil still has here. First year he's here he trades Tyson and Felton for pennies on the dollar, then he gives away Shumpert and JR, who go help the Cavs make two straight Finals. (Cavs get JR and Shump for FREE, so they have two first round picks to offer for Mozgov, btw)
Remember the first summer we had max cap room under Phil? People here were talking about LaMarcus Aldridge, maybe stealing RFAs Khris Middleton or Draymond Green, or maybe settling for Danny Green... maybe Greg Monroe (hey, his ws/48 shows great upside!)... summer comes NO ONE wants to come play for a 17-win Triangle team. Phil gets Rolo, Afflalo, DWill... we're told it's a great haul in spite of things and Phil has maintained flexibility. A year later, they're all gone.
Next summer Phil trades his recent first round pick (he's kept the picks! he's rebuilding!) for past his prime DRose, signs well past his prime Joakim Noah to a 4yr deal, and luckily Noah convinces Courtney Lee to come and also Brandon Jennings (okay, I like those last two).
All those moves. Not to mention giving away Tim Hardaway Jr to get Jerian Grant who was a horrible Triangle fit...
All those moves. And people say, hey if Melo just moved the ball more and would try a little more on D this team could COMPETE. Gimme a frickin break. Melo's been a soldier under Phil's disastrous attempt to be a team builder. And now the knock on Melo is that he won't leave so Phil can tie himself to Austin Rivers and Jamal Crawford (whose deals runs just as long as Melo's by the way). Gimme. a. Break.
I didn't even have the energy to go through the coaching moves, but for the record it's been four head coaches in less than three years.
U don't like JCrossover??
holfresh wrote:crzymdups wrote:I can't believe the amount of loyalty Phil still has here. First year he's here he trades Tyson and Felton for pennies on the dollar, then he gives away Shumpert and JR, who go help the Cavs make two straight Finals. (Cavs get JR and Shump for FREE, so they have two first round picks to offer for Mozgov, btw)
Remember the first summer we had max cap room under Phil? People here were talking about LaMarcus Aldridge, maybe stealing RFAs Khris Middleton or Draymond Green, or maybe settling for Danny Green... maybe Greg Monroe (hey, his ws/48 shows great upside!)... summer comes NO ONE wants to come play for a 17-win Triangle team. Phil gets Rolo, Afflalo, DWill... we're told it's a great haul in spite of things and Phil has maintained flexibility. A year later, they're all gone.
Next summer Phil trades his recent first round pick (he's kept the picks! he's rebuilding!) for past his prime DRose, signs well past his prime Joakim Noah to a 4yr deal, and luckily Noah convinces Courtney Lee to come and also Brandon Jennings (okay, I like those last two).
All those moves. Not to mention giving away Tim Hardaway Jr to get Jerian Grant who was a horrible Triangle fit...
All those moves. And people say, hey if Melo just moved the ball more and would try a little more on D this team could COMPETE. Gimme a frickin break. Melo's been a soldier under Phil's disastrous attempt to be a team builder. And now the knock on Melo is that he won't leave so Phil can tie himself to Austin Rivers and Jamal Crawford (whose deals runs just as long as Melo's by the way). Gimme. a. Break.
I didn't even have the energy to go through the coaching moves, but for the record it's been four head coaches in less than three years.
U don't like JCrossover??
I love Jamal, but Jamal is gonna be 37 in March and he's signed for two more years.
In NY Melo has had
Amare Tyson Billips/Felton - 1 year playoffs all other years failure
Porzingis Rose Jennings Lee - Lottery
Are we really saying that if this team were carried by Westbrook, Chris Paul, Harden, Durant, Curry. They would miss the playoffs with the talent Knicks have this year?
Melo doesn't make teammates better and worse doesn't allow teammates to play at full throttle. So they get worse playing next to him. This is a major problem.
Phil Jackson will leave in 2 years. I hope he makes sure he adds to the great picks he has already made in KP and Willy. That he gets this team a young good player at each of the 5 positions. That's all I want him to do becuse Knicks never actually do that sort of thing.
