Knicks · Trade deadline comeths: What do you want the knicks to do? What do you think they'll do? (page 1)
1) I want Rose gone, I would be delighted if the sixers took him for the first rounder they may get from the Pelicans, but I think we'll probably end up moving him to the Twolves for Rubio (this connection, Minnesota is nearer Chicago so he won't feel the need to fly back to his mom on a game night as much)- This probably takes the gamble because even if Rose is a disaster, he can let him walk and has cleared Rubio's salary off the books. I used to oppose trading for Rubio, but I'm happy with it if we're moving Melo- need some veteran leadership, good character, an ability to play defense AND should help KPs development.
2) Trade Melo- the dream would be to the Cavs, then move Love to Boston (I'd even swap Lee for JR or Shumps contract to make that happen), but that ain't going to happen. In reality I think we end up with the worst rumoured Clipper deal (Rivers, Crawford, trash and no Redick to move for a pick). Worst case scenario is we keep Melo, as it just puts rebuilding the culture on hold until he's gone- its going to be very awkward if he's still here after the deadline
3) Unless he's part of a Melo deal, keep Lee for his leadership unless we can get a good first rounder for him, or two late firsts.
4) Keep Phil and focus on the draft for the next 2 seasons- no free agency spending spree
With no big names there should be less drama and the media will get bored and leave us alone for a while
I see no moves whatsoever. That is obviously not what I would like to see happen.
At a minimum, I want Rose gone- either by trade or buy out.
If there is a decent deal for Melo, I'd love to see that happen- just so we can really start to focus on rebuilding for the long term - e.g., 2-3 years out.
Otherwise, we're looking at another 5 years of being pathetic.
Willy/Noah
KP/OQuinn
Kuz
Holiday/Baker
Jennings
I'd like to see us test the market for Melo. Rose and Lee. For all 3 same type of deal. A pick is a must, cap space or a young long term starter/rotation player.
What I think NYK will do: Embarrass themselves.
nyknickzingis wrote:I'd like to see us keepWilly/Noah
KP/OQuinn
Kuz
Holiday/Baker
JenningsI'd like to see us test the market for Melo. Rose and Lee. For all 3 same type of deal. A pick is a must, cap space or a young long term starter/rotation player.
Oquinn should start c because he's earned it. Kuz has not earned a starting sf spot. I'd play kp as a 4-5 and make sure willy gets 20 minutes 4-5. Need to make melo take some 3 minutes
In terms of what to do at deadline. Just have to use common sense and be open for business
franco12 wrote:I don't see anything happening. It just seems too hard to move Melo, and Rose has certainly not endeared anyone this year with his lack of defense. And he's got a large salary - so hard to match up.I see no moves whatsoever. That is obviously not what I would like to see happen.
At a minimum, I want Rose gone- either by trade or buy out.
If there is a decent deal for Melo, I'd love to see that happen- just so we can really start to focus on rebuilding for the long term - e.g., 2-3 years out.
Otherwise, we're looking at another 5 years of being pathetic.
There aren't many teams where Rose makes sense- in fact you can narrow it down to Twolves, Sixers and Kings (not because he'd be a good fit but because their GM is an idiot who would do that sort of thing). Twolves are under the cap so Rose's salary wouldn't be a problem (Rubio for Rose works as they can take on more salary than they send out). Sixers are also under the cap (though this may be about to change with the OK4 trade). Kings, you'd have to match salary and they don't have anything I'd want to make that worthwhile (I like WCS but not for taking on dead salary. Maybe Magic (they were interested in Dragic but looks like he's off the table)- Rose might fit well in that squad as the need a scorer and have some good defenders.
There was an article saying at least one team was interested, we can but hope.
Trade deadline is a phantom event for the frustrated. Equally frustrating will be when nothing major is done.
1. Noah is injured, and new player. Not good form to keep signing guys then trade them, and its rare to move an injured player. Only thing I can see is a swap for Rudy Gay as to mentor Cousins, providing Boogie is even open to being "Taught". Noah don't have a NTC, but it would be rude as hell to sign a guy then move him so quick. Noah is not lazy, stupid or in need of punishment or absorb blame. He needs to be healthy. Age and momentum is not in his favor and thus its not a very encouraging situation.
2. Trading Melo. Personally I don't see the big to do over the alleged abuse behavior of a couple of tweets by phil. We have been over this so many times. We don't know if Melo has made promises he has failed to keep, or phil is being a dick. Bottom line is this team is not coming together and Melo play is not conducive to winning basketball over a long season. How can I say this? Look at our record. If a great deal can't be made, then it won't happen at trade deadline.
3. Im not sold that Rose is NOT part of a long term solution. I see great uneven play. My mind is not made up. I don't know his personality, he does not say much, he is stoic on the court, seems to want to make it work, but I don't understand the divide he has with his coach or the AWOL thing he pulled. Im real enough to know we can't hyper judge what we don't understand. Thus, we have to go what we see on the court, and as I said, its mixed. Basically Rose has to pass the medical test as over 100 million will be "invested", and he has to swear an allegiance to the Triangle or what ever culture is to be installed. If not, it won't work. How do I know? Im guessing this is a point of contention between Melo and Phil. Just a guess.
4. Jennings might be a good long term back up situation. Im not into the "he wants to be in NY" and some how I get the warm fuzzy's over that. It will boil down to $$$$$$ and what our vision of Baker is. Not very dramatic.
5. KOQ is doing really well as a back up center. NO need to touch this. We should celebrate this. He could be great trade fodder.
6. Willy. We all love Willy. Not ready for starters roll and might still be suited for playing the 4 spot. Kid is really a nice surprise. Hate to say it, he too could be trade fodder. Don't be upset, he'd bring in a lot in return. Not my preference. Don't want to upset KP, but KP will get a massive contract that will heal that pain. It also has to be a move that opens things up and is a solid basketball deal. If Willy can be used to get a pick, or a player with star potential its what should be done. I doubt this happens, and certainly not at the trade deadline.
Nalod wrote:3. Im not sold that Rose is NOT part of a long term solution. I see great uneven play. My mind is not made up. I don't know his personality, he does not say much, he is stoic on the court, seems to want to make it work, but I don't understand the divide he has with his coach or the AWOL thing he pulled. Im real enough to know we can't hyper judge what we don't understand. Thus, we have to go what we see on the court, and as I said, its mixed. Basically Rose has to pass the medical test as over 100 million will be "invested", and he has to swear an allegiance to the Triangle or what ever culture is to be installed. If not, it won't work. How do I know? Im guessing this is a point of contention between Melo and Phil. Just a guess.
What the HELL?!?!?! What's happened to you?! How can you not see his total lack of effort on defense, his reluctance to pass to KP, his selfishness, the fact he walked out on the team, the fact he never runs through screens????
VCoug wrote:What I want NYK to do: Basically, put everyone not named Porzingis or Hernangomez on the market and see who bites. Cleveland's been looking for a backup PG so there's a perfect fit for Jennings; Courtney Lee is a nice player that could help out a number of good teams; same with KOQ but I'd require at least one 1st coming back for him. Trade Melo to CLE or LAC. Pawn off Rose to whoever could possibly want him and, if no one does, waive him. I doubt anyone wants him but shop Noah around also for anything.What I think NYK will do: Embarrass themselves.
Pretty much what I was thinking. A week or two ago I would have added Kuz to the mix but now he has played himself out of being a good asset.
2) D.Rose has got to go. Try to trade him for anything even if it's a 2nd round pick and if we can't trade him then let him walk after the season. We by no means need to re-sign him with or without Melo on the team. I don't think he loves the game of basketball as much as he should and think it's all about the money with him. Rose has got to go.
3) Try everything you can to trade Noah but i think we all know that's not gonna happen but you never know so try. If we had to add something to a deal to trade him then do it as long as it's nothing crazy, if we have to take back a bad contract to trade him then do it but only if that contract isn't for 3 more years like Noah's is. I'm pretty much alone on this but i don't think Noah is a bad player to have on and around the team, he's just overpaid and for too many years. If his contract was say 2 or maybe even 3 years at say $12 mil per then i don't think that would be a bad contract cause i think we don't take into account how much he helps a team on the bench and in the locker room and on the court with his energy, his vocal leadership how he plays hard at all times on the court and this stuff is good for young players to be around.
4) Put KOQ, B.Jennings, J.Holiday, L.Thomas and C.Lee on the trade block and see what we can get for any of them. If any of them would bring back a 1st round pick then make the trade or if they'll bring back young players that can help us then make the trade. Kp and Billy do not go on the trade block no matter what cause they're our future 4 and 5 for a long time.
5) Get K.Rambis off the bench. If Phil wants him working with him in the offices then that's fine but get him off our bench.
smackeddog wrote:Nalod wrote:3. Im not sold that Rose is NOT part of a long term solution. I see great uneven play. My mind is not made up. I don't know his personality, he does not say much, he is stoic on the court, seems to want to make it work, but I don't understand the divide he has with his coach or the AWOL thing he pulled. Im real enough to know we can't hyper judge what we don't understand. Thus, we have to go what we see on the court, and as I said, its mixed. Basically Rose has to pass the medical test as over 100 million will be "invested", and he has to swear an allegiance to the Triangle or what ever culture is to be installed. If not, it won't work. How do I know? Im guessing this is a point of contention between Melo and Phil. Just a guess.What the HELL?!?!?! What's happened to you?! How can you not see his total lack of effort on defense, his reluctance to pass to KP, his selfishness, the fact he walked out on the team, the fact he never runs through screens????
These things are detrimental on their own, but let's say we're lucky enough to draft Ball? Would Rose's weaknesses still leave us at a disadvantage on a nightly basis? I wouldn't say Rose and Melo aren't winning players. I'd argue that our wasn't constructed well enough to maximize our players skills. I'm open to keeping Rose, depending on how the rest of the season unfolds. That said...A lot has to happen to make a Rose return feasible. Also, keep in mind that Rose is a "fluke" year candidate
http://forums.eog.com/showthread.php/335.... There's no guarantee he'll even continue this level of play next season.
If he is....
Knicks Trade: Carmelo Anthony, Courtney Lee and $3 million
Knicks Recieve: Austin Rivers, JJ Redick, a 2021 LAC unprotected 1st round pick and $20 million savings
Clippers Trade: JJ Redick, Austin Rivers, Paul Pierce and a 2021 unprotected first round pick
Clippers Recieve: Carmelo Anthony, Courtney Lee and Gerald Green
Boston Trade: James Young and Gerald Green
Boston Recieve: Paul Pierce
Nets or Sixers Trade: $16 million of cap space
Nets or Sixers Recieve: Jamal Crawford and James Young
Knicks do the deal to save money and have the flexibility to potentially make other deals before the deal. They also get a rotation player in Rivers that they can having moving forward during the KP era. The cherry on top is the first round pick, which should be pretty valuable by the time it matures and the ability to acquire a 2nd by moving JJ Redick in a subsequent deal. I could see the Wizards, Pelicans, Bobcats, Pacers and Kings all willing to move a pick for JJ, even if he is expiring. The Wizards are the only one I think would move their 2017 pick, so they'd be my target. A pick in the early 20s could still land us a future starter in this league.
Clippers do the trade because it is clearly a talent upgrade in the immediate and also solidifes their SG position long-term. I do think JJ Redick is a better player than Courtney Lee but Courtney's contract helps balance the value, since it is fixed and likely much less than what Redick will recieve this offseason.
Celtics do the deal for nostalgic reasons. Paul Pierce had been their standardbearer foe such a long-time that he deserves to play out his final year with them, who are contenders. The move likely won't impact their rotation but Pierce's flare for clutch shots might make him a commodity in the playoffs.
Nets/Philly do the deal because it is a talent upgrade at positions that lack depth. I think the Nets would be more inclined to do the deal since they'll have fewer tools to upgrade their roster moving forward.
Knicks Trade: Derrick Rose, Courtney Lee, Justin Holiday and $3 million cash
Knicks Recieve: Buddy Hield, Tyreke Evans, Ersan Ilyasova and Langston Galloway
Bucks Trade: Greg Monroe and Mirza Teletovic
Bucks Recieve: Derrick Rose and Alexis Ajinca
Pelicans Trade: Tyreke Evans, Buddy Hield, Alexis Ajinca and Langston Galloway
Pelicans Recieve: Greg Monroe, Courtney Lee, Justin Holiday and $3 million (via NYK)
Sixers Trade: Irsan Ilyasova
Sixers Recieve: Mirza Teletovic
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tra...
Knicks do the deal to gain more financial flexibility moving forward and a project that fits Kristaps Porzingis' timeline in Buddy Hield.
Bucks do the deal to offset the lost scoring in absence of Khris Middleton and Jabari Parker. I also think that Derrick Rose would fair far better in a system where he wasn't relied on to create for others. Giannas would allow him to be a pure scorer, which might not produce many wins but should keep the team competitive these last few games of the season. If the experiment doesn't work, they could always just let Rose walk at season's end.
Pelicans do the deal because they are desperate. Courtney Lee does what they were hoping Buddy Hield could do. Greg Monroe allows them to get production at the 5, while also alleviating Davis' need to play at the position or score as much. Justin Holiday helps increase the likelihood of re-signing Jrue Holiday, who they seem intent to keep if they can get any gaurantees he won't leave.
Sixers do the deal to avoid having to re-sign Ilyasova to an above market contract. Teletovic might not be as good as Ilyasova but he has a 3-year, somewhat cap friendly deal and produces the floor spacing the Sixers like in Ilyasova.
Defensive rebounders. We have the worst defensive rebounding numbers in the league and give 14.5 second chance pts per game, the second worst in the league. This is pathetic considering the fact that we are top 5 in offensive rebounds and 2nd chance points.
smackeddog wrote:Nalod wrote:3. Im not sold that Rose is NOT part of a long term solution. I see great uneven play. My mind is not made up. I don't know his personality, he does not say much, he is stoic on the court, seems to want to make it work, but I don't understand the divide he has with his coach or the AWOL thing he pulled. Im real enough to know we can't hyper judge what we don't understand. Thus, we have to go what we see on the court, and as I said, its mixed. Basically Rose has to pass the medical test as over 100 million will be "invested", and he has to swear an allegiance to the Triangle or what ever culture is to be installed. If not, it won't work. How do I know? Im guessing this is a point of contention between Melo and Phil. Just a guess.What the HELL?!?!?! What's happened to you?! How can you not see his total lack of effort on defense, his reluctance to pass to KP, his selfishness, the fact he walked out on the team, the fact he never runs through screens????
The simpatico and rhythm to the game and the system takes time. Im not convinced Rose cannot be "rehabilitated".
I defer to people smarter about basketball than I.
Did they trade David Robinson for picks at the end of his career? Did they trade Tim Duncan?
It took us years to recover from the Ewing trade, and I'm still not sure we recovered karmically.
Melo is not on the level of any of those guys, but he's absolutely a top 10 Knick all-time. If the dude wants to stay, let him stay.
Otherwise, I would keep Jennings and look to re-sign him. I would keep CLee.
I would cut ties with DRose as soon as possible.
crzymdups wrote:How about when in doubt we do what the Spurs do?Did they trade David Robinson for picks at the end of his career? Did they trade Tim Duncan?
It took us years to recover from the Ewing trade, and I'm still not sure we recovered karmically.
Melo is not on the level of any of those guys, but he's absolutely a top 10 Knick all-time. If the dude wants to stay, let him stay.
Otherwise, I would keep Jennings and look to re-sign him. I would keep CLee.
I would cut ties with DRose as soon as possible.
C'mon man, you remember how the Ewing trade went down. Ewing wanted out.
Duncan and Robinson went out winners on teams that won. Top 10 all time in scoring? Whats your measure?