Knicks · Trade deadline comeths: What do you want the knicks to do? What do you think they'll do? (page 3)
VCoug wrote:EnySpree wrote:Why do we want Love with KP, KOQ and Willy here? Makes zero sense.The Knicks need to upgrade the back court and get younger if possible
My hope would be to flip Love to another team (Boston has loved him forever) for a package of young talent/picks.
yep, with melo you're restricted to moving him to Clips or Cavs, if you have Love, he has no NTC, is a few years younger- you can send him wherever the deal is sweetest
LivingLegend wrote:smackeddog wrote:LivingLegend wrote:smackeddog wrote:Looks like K-love might be out for a while- pain and swelling in the knee, further tests- they should have traded for melo while they could! Looks like no way we deal with cavs now- Celtics wouldn't want a breaking down Love- SAS was right about himWhy not take Love anyway - I don't see any problem with that. Melo injured his knee and missed 1/2 the season at 31 --- nobody was saying it's over.
Love is 28.
You sway Melo for Love --- and you let Love sit out for as long as he needs (even rest of season -- TANK). Let him get 100%.
We can keep him for a bit or trade him during the summer.
I make a Melo for injured Love deal in a second.
You could, but if it turns out to be chronic, we're stuck with a max contract for years, and one that plays the same position as KP.
INDEPENDENCE, Ohio -- Cavs All-Star forward Kevin Love will get a second opinion on his ailing left knee Tuesday, and there is concern team wide that he could be in line for an extended absence."I would love to be able to tell you that he'll miss three games and be back, but I can't right now because we don't know," general manager David Griffin said.
The Cavs have already ruled Love out for Tuesday's game in Minnesota. They play again Wednesday at home against Indiana, and then Love is supposed to play in the All-Star Game Sunday in New Orleans.
Love already underwent an MRI on Sunday, after complaining of pain during and after Cleveland's 125-109 win over the Denver Nuggets Saturday night. The Cavs did not announce the results of the MRI, nor would they share with whom Love would consult Tuesday.
Obviously, the need for more tests and more sets of eyes suggests whatever the Cavs' doctor saw Sunday in Love's knee wasn't optimal.
http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/...
It sounds like a meniscus tear, but like I said SAS said he was breaking down and his back and knees were a problem, that was weeks before he went down with a back problem, now this
Stephen A now the voice of reason and resident medical doctor.
Stephen A > Dr. Lisa Callahan
Normally I'd agree with your sarcasm, but he called all this weeks ago, he said Love was breaking down with a back and or Knee issue- that was a week before Love went down with his back problem.
EnySpree wrote:Rose definitely has to go...he's a big chip. If a team wants a bench scorer or extra firepower for the playoffs or want to dump a contract.... Rose is a big big chip. If teams wanna be stupid then we can just keep him and let him walk after the season.
Kenny Smith of TNT said it best, playoff ball is different because every single possession becomes critical. Your margin for error shaves to nothing the farther you advance. It becomes a chess game of individual matchups.
The Heat, with their Big Three, simply had no answer for JJ Barea. The first year, they also did not have Birdman. Not a huge difference, but you don't need a huge difference to lose a playoff series.
Rose does not play defense. He does not play efficient team basketball and not even what is considered nominal playoff style ball. He does not hit the three point shot at an elite rate. He cannot create his own shot as he did when he was younger and less injured. For teams pushing forward, most don't have the expiring bad contracts to dump to do a salary match for him. There is also the issue of team rapport, teams who gel together over time play better together. Introducing a new element can disrupt everything ( When the Mavs traded for Rondo, but moved Crowder and a critical rotation center to do so)
Also Rose might not even show up for the game apparently.
Rose has literally close to no trade value. Teams might pounce if Rose gets a buyout and can pick his new team as a low cost, but I doubt many see Rose and his limitations as some kind of magic pill to push them over the top.
EnySpree wrote:Why do we want Love with KP, KOQ and Willy here? Makes zero sense.The Knicks need to upgrade the back court and get younger if possible
If you are rebuilding, you take the talent, you build your asset base and figure it all out later.
The 49ers had Joe Montana, why would trading for Steve Young from Tampa Bay be a good idea? Who cares, stockpile the talent and figure the rest out later. When the 49ers had Montana and Young, they got Steve Bono, good enough to start for half the league at the time. Why do you need a solid 3rd string QB? Who cares, stockpile the talent anyway.
If the Jets had young Darrelle Revis and could draft a couple of solid cornerbacks anyway in the late draft rounds, who cares if the Jets need more corners, take the talent, figure the rest out later.
If the Knicks can get Kevin Love and don't take him in a trade because they have Zinger already, that's insane. Who care how he fits, take the talent and figure it all out down the road.
TripleThreat wrote:EnySpree wrote:Why do we want Love with KP, KOQ and Willy here? Makes zero sense.The Knicks need to upgrade the back court and get younger if possible
If you are rebuilding, you take the talent, you build your asset base and figure it all out later.
The 49ers had Joe Montana, why would trading for Steve Young from Tampa Bay be a good idea? Who cares, stockpile the talent and figure the rest out later. When the 49ers had Montana and Young, they got Steve Bono, good enough to start for half the league at the time. Why do you need a solid 3rd string QB? Who cares, stockpile the talent anyway.
If the Jets had young Darrelle Revis and could draft a couple of solid cornerbacks anyway in the late draft rounds, who cares if the Jets need more corners, take the talent, figure the rest out later.
If the Knicks can get Kevin Love and don't take him in a trade because they have Zinger already, that's insane. Who care how he fits, take the talent and figure it all out down the road.
Ah, just like the Isaiah Thomas years...
smackeddog wrote:Ah, just like the Isaiah Thomas years...
Huge difference between a legit All Star, at 28, like Love and guys with red flags like Francis, Marbury, James, Curry, etc.
If you can trade Melo and get Love ( this trade will never happen, never ever happen in real life though), you do it and you never look back and you think the Basketball Gods that it happened.
TripleThreat wrote:smackeddog wrote:Ah, just like the Isaiah Thomas years...
Huge difference between a legit All Star, at 28, like Love and guys with red flags like Francis, Marbury, James, Curry, etc.If you can trade Melo and get Love ( this trade will never happen, never ever happen in real life though), you do it and you never look back and you think the Basketball Gods that it happened.
Didnt you learn anything from amare? K Love may be breaking down with back and knee issues- I only take him if we're guaranteed to move him for a pick- if we got stuck with a maxed out Klove who plays the same position as KP, it would be ridiculous, we'd just be re-creating the Amar'e years.
smackeddog wrote:Didnt you learn anything from amare?
A low IQ guy dependent on plus athleticism and could not/would not play defense, also could not defend the rim and did not have an elite three point shot to space the floor?
At MINIMUM, Love is an elite Stretch 4 PF. Even if everything else falls apart. He can bomb from range and do it consistently. He's a very heady and high IQ player who can adapt his game. No, he cannot defend the rim and he's not an elite defender, but he offers so much more than a broken down STAT.
And he'd be a MASSIVE return over any other trade scenario for Melo. Like I said, the trade would not happen, but if it could and the Knicks were offered it, it would be insane not to take it.
TripleThreat wrote:At a minimum Love misses half his seasons, cant defend anyone on balky knees and is nothing but Novak with a max deal. Love is a poor gamble unless you have a team already lined up to flip. Good chance he fails his physical, trade is killed and things get REALLY ugly. Your minimum is pretty optimistic.smackeddog wrote:Didnt you learn anything from amare?A low IQ guy dependent on plus athleticism and could not/would not play defense, also could not defend the rim and did not have an elite three point shot to space the floor?
At MINIMUM, Love is an elite Stretch 4 PF. Even if everything else falls apart. He can bomb from range and do it consistently. He's a very heady and high IQ player who can adapt his game. No, he cannot defend the rim and he's not an elite defender, but he offers so much more than a broken down STAT.
And he'd be a MASSIVE return over any other trade scenario for Melo. Like I said, the trade would not happen, but if it could and the Knicks were offered it, it would be insane not to take it.
TripleThreat wrote:smackeddog wrote:Didnt you learn anything from amare?A low IQ guy dependent on plus athleticism and could not/would not play defense, also could not defend the rim and did not have an elite three point shot to space the floor?
At MINIMUM, Love is an elite Stretch 4 PF. Even if everything else falls apart. He can bomb from range and do it consistently. He's a very heady and high IQ player who can adapt his game. No, he cannot defend the rim and he's not an elite defender, but he offers so much more than a broken down STAT.
And he'd be a MASSIVE return over any other trade scenario for Melo. Like I said, the trade would not happen, but if it could and the Knicks were offered it, it would be insane not to take it.
Amar'e in his prime was better than Kevin Love in his prime, as for the rest fishmike beat me to it!
Bringing him back to the playoffs might not be a good thing.
Love does not have a NTC.
Phil can give them Jennings as well. That solves their back up point problem.
If Love can't play, they can't contend for a chip.
Nalod wrote:small tear in the knee is not a big deal if you let it heal.take Love off that team. Who in the East beats them to the Finals?
Bringing him back to the playoffs might not be a good thing.
Love does not have a NTC.
Phil can give them Jennings as well. That solves their back up point problem.
If Love can't play, they can't contend for a chip.
fishmike wrote:Nalod wrote:small tear in the knee is not a big deal if you let it heal.take Love off that team. Who in the East beats them to the Finals?
Bringing him back to the playoffs might not be a good thing.
Love does not have a NTC.
Phil can give them Jennings as well. That solves their back up point problem.
If Love can't play, they can't contend for a chip.
The Washington Wizards. They manhandled OKC last night. They are gelling like a contender right now. If it keeps up, they may actually be the best in the East after the Cavs. Without Love, Cavs are not contenders.
The problem is PG play where Rose has resided and has been a total bust. He needs to be moved. Either to another team or from PG spot to the SG spot. If the latter then Jennings and Baker needs to play the PG spot no matter what and let Rose just score at will.
NYKBocker wrote:I don't think Melo is going anywhere. The problem with Melo is his alpha mentality. He has not accepted yet that he needs to step back a little and hand the reigns to KP and the younger guys. I like Melo now. Did not like him when he got here but he has won me over. The fact that he likes and protects KP is a good reason for that.The problem is PG play where Rose has resided and has been a total bust. He needs to be moved. Either to another team or from PG spot to the SG spot. If the latter then Jennings and Baker needs to play the PG spot no matter what and let Rose just score at will.
I agree with all this.
Rose is the real issue. He's just the wrong fit for the team, and the wrong fit for the NBA in 2017.
Hopefully we can draft a real PG prospect like Fox and keep Jennings for cheap. That alone would make next year much much better.
At this point, why trade Melo for a bag of golf balls? KP has shown he likes having Melo around to help take the pressure off him. Melo can opt out at the end of next season - I think there's a high chance he does to go play with CP3 and Lebron. I don't see any reason to force it before then and lock ourselves into Austin Rivers for three years. Austin Rivers is not a playmaking PG.
crzymdups wrote:I no longer think this is a positive, especially when I watch KP's role in the offense when Melo is on the floor. Much prefer running the offense through the young guys and let them take their lumps. Otherwise we are a 35 win team with Melo and that is the WORST position in the NBA to be in. Thats Jordan Hill vs. Steph Curry. We need to do this right. Willy is showing he's a build around guy. We have KP. Its not enough. We need another blue chipper.NYKBocker wrote:I don't think Melo is going anywhere. The problem with Melo is his alpha mentality. He has not accepted yet that he needs to step back a little and hand the reigns to KP and the younger guys. I like Melo now. Did not like him when he got here but he has won me over. The fact that he likes and protects KP is a good reason for that.The problem is PG play where Rose has resided and has been a total bust. He needs to be moved. Either to another team or from PG spot to the SG spot. If the latter then Jennings and Baker needs to play the PG spot no matter what and let Rose just score at will.
I agree with all this.
Rose is the real issue. He's just the wrong fit for the team, and the wrong fit for the NBA in 2017.
Hopefully we can draft a real PG prospect like Fox and keep Jennings for cheap. That alone would make next year much much better.
At this point, why trade Melo for a bag of golf balls? KP has shown he likes having Melo around to help take the pressure off him. Melo can opt out at the end of next season - I think there's a high chance he does to go play with CP3 and Lebron. I don't see any reason to force it before then and lock ourselves into Austin Rivers for three years. Austin Rivers is not a playmaking PG.
fishmike wrote:crzymdups wrote:I no longer think this is a positive, especially when I watch KP's role in the offense when Melo is on the floor. Much prefer running the offense through the young guys and let them take their lumps. Otherwise we are a 35 win team with Melo and that is the WORST position in the NBA to be in. Thats Jordan Hill vs. Steph Curry. We need to do this right. Willy is showing he's a build around guy. We have KP. Its not enough. We need another blue chipper.NYKBocker wrote:I don't think Melo is going anywhere. The problem with Melo is his alpha mentality. He has not accepted yet that he needs to step back a little and hand the reigns to KP and the younger guys. I like Melo now. Did not like him when he got here but he has won me over. The fact that he likes and protects KP is a good reason for that.The problem is PG play where Rose has resided and has been a total bust. He needs to be moved. Either to another team or from PG spot to the SG spot. If the latter then Jennings and Baker needs to play the PG spot no matter what and let Rose just score at will.
I agree with all this.
Rose is the real issue. He's just the wrong fit for the team, and the wrong fit for the NBA in 2017.
Hopefully we can draft a real PG prospect like Fox and keep Jennings for cheap. That alone would make next year much much better.
At this point, why trade Melo for a bag of golf balls? KP has shown he likes having Melo around to help take the pressure off him. Melo can opt out at the end of next season - I think there's a high chance he does to go play with CP3 and Lebron. I don't see any reason to force it before then and lock ourselves into Austin Rivers for three years. Austin Rivers is not a playmaking PG.
35 wins would be a career high for Phil. I don't see this team winning 30.
The Love injury, to me, opens up Cleveland as a possibility for Melo where it was not before.
But you really want to take back Shumpert, Frye and a bunch of crap instead of just paying Melo for one more year and then he opts out at the end of 2018?
To me we'd have to get back something worthwhile to tie up the cap room. Austin Rivers or Shumpert aren't really doing it for me.
Love
Boogie
Towns
Westbrook
A-Davis
Yes - Love is a stiff, he's washed up and he wouldn't help the Knicks.
In fact - he'd fit almost perfectly with KP offensively and he'd gobble up every defensive rebound KP can't get his hands on.
crzymdups wrote:No.. I hate those deals. They suck. But long term? I think that makes sense. At least Austin Rivers is a good player. We are NOT getting great value for Melo, it just isnt happening. Its just about whats best right now. We have a smart coach. Its very possible, if not likely that this group rallies a bit and wins some games. I can picture something like that last Woodson year when we were 21-40 and finish 16-5. Granted we had no pick that year... my point is it would be the worst.fishmike wrote:crzymdups wrote:I no longer think this is a positive, especially when I watch KP's role in the offense when Melo is on the floor. Much prefer running the offense through the young guys and let them take their lumps. Otherwise we are a 35 win team with Melo and that is the WORST position in the NBA to be in. Thats Jordan Hill vs. Steph Curry. We need to do this right. Willy is showing he's a build around guy. We have KP. Its not enough. We need another blue chipper.NYKBocker wrote:I don't think Melo is going anywhere. The problem with Melo is his alpha mentality. He has not accepted yet that he needs to step back a little and hand the reigns to KP and the younger guys. I like Melo now. Did not like him when he got here but he has won me over. The fact that he likes and protects KP is a good reason for that.The problem is PG play where Rose has resided and has been a total bust. He needs to be moved. Either to another team or from PG spot to the SG spot. If the latter then Jennings and Baker needs to play the PG spot no matter what and let Rose just score at will.
I agree with all this.
Rose is the real issue. He's just the wrong fit for the team, and the wrong fit for the NBA in 2017.
Hopefully we can draft a real PG prospect like Fox and keep Jennings for cheap. That alone would make next year much much better.
At this point, why trade Melo for a bag of golf balls? KP has shown he likes having Melo around to help take the pressure off him. Melo can opt out at the end of next season - I think there's a high chance he does to go play with CP3 and Lebron. I don't see any reason to force it before then and lock ourselves into Austin Rivers for three years. Austin Rivers is not a playmaking PG.
35 wins would be a career high for Phil. I don't see this team winning 30.
The Love injury, to me, opens up Cleveland as a possibility for Melo where it was not before.
But you really want to take back Shumpert, Frye and a bunch of crap instead of just paying Melo for one more year and then he opts out at the end of 2018?
To me we'd have to get back something worthwhile to tie up the cap room. Austin Rivers or Shumpert aren't really doing it for me.
Its always about opportunity. Its such a deep draft and 5-8 slots will be the difference between a good player and a franchise player. Sure great ones fall and high ones bust but the averages tell a story. Higher = better.
BRIGGS wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:I'd like to see us keepWilly/Noah
KP/OQuinn
Kuz
Holiday/Baker
JenningsI'd like to see us test the market for Melo. Rose and Lee. For all 3 same type of deal. A pick is a must, cap space or a young long term starter/rotation player.
Oquinn should start c because he's earned it. Kuz has not earned a starting sf spot. I'd play kp as a 4-5 and make sure willy gets 20 minutes 4-5. Need to make melo take some 3 minutes
In terms of what to do at deadline. Just have to use common sense and be open for business
I agree .. Quinn earned the starter spot .. Willie earned 20 minute off the bench .. KP should be used at the 4-5 spot.
I also believe Noah should stay our starter center, and Quinn should be our starter at 4 spot, and KP, Willie, Kuz, Holiday, and Jennings should come off the bench with fresh legs as a uptempo transition 2nd unit.
A Knicks question that need no answers ....
What player want to be traded to the Knicks after the Phil Jackson vs Melo tweet?
What player want to be traded to the Knicks after Knicks owner Dolan has a Knicks legend Oakley arrested and thrown-out MSG during a game?
Nalod wrote:small tear in the knee is not a big deal if you let it heal.
Bringing him back to the playoffs might not be a good thing.
Love does not have a NTC.
Phil can give them Jennings as well. That solves their back up point problem.
If Love can't play, they can't contend for a chip.
If Cavs extend D.Will 10 day contract, that mean Lebron and coaching-staff will be working hard to improve D.Will poor defensive performance the same as was done for Love, JR.Smith, and Kyrie.
Love played 46 games out of Cavs 53 games, Love will be getting rest and working out in therapy to be prepare for his role in the playoffs .. Love will probably return in 4-5 weeks.