Knicks · Blame the fans? (page 2)
HofstraBBall wrote:arkrud wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:Nalod wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:I remember going to Knick games and fans booing Ewing. Going to Met games and fans booing Piazza. Lots of NY fans want perfection and also jealous of guys getting paid that much money. In their eyes, if your going to make that kind of money you better be perfect. Funny, I once asked this guy yelling at Ewing if he ever played ball (guy was bout 350 and double fishing hot dogs) Ofcourse he said no and said but I know zero talent when I see it. Profound.Max players on Losing teams are object to fans ire. Is this not true in other cities?
Don't know. Have not lived in other cities. But you can't argue that NY is seen as a tough place to play. And if you have been to Yankee, Knicks games,the seats are filled with miserable sore losers that think it's normal to curse players out. Just low class fans that give us normal fans a bad name.
Interesting from where "miserable sore losers" will emerge in San Antonio or LA?
You really need to have multi-decade train-wreck teams to put so many fans in this state.Nah. Loud mouthed wannabe sore losers are all over the 5 boroughs. I see them every day.
Welcome to observing 99%.... Talk about inequality 
arkrud wrote:Knixkik wrote:arkrud wrote:Knixkik wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:If thats true about Melo it says a lot about him. We should have passed.
You don't give up young staters for players that won't change your direction as a franchise
I feel we had too many Melo will bring in CP3 or others dreams going on.
Nevermind what a bad fit Melo was for a coach like MDA.Then the Bargnani trade. Yuck.
Paired with Amare, Melo was supposed to change the direction of the franchise. That was the exact perception of the deal.
Direction of the franchise is not defined by one or 2 players.
This is exactly why Knicks have no direction already for almost 20 years.
Scratching the lottery tickets is not team building but just gambling.
And result is always the same - need in therapist.In a star-driven league, having 2 star players in their primes was what most teams probably consider a direction, but i agree.
I think it was multiple unfortunate examples when this strategy failed miserably and even most modern big-3 approach required very well selected support cast to make it successful. Also this strategy is only good for "final push" when team is already contending and is one peace away from the run to the title. Knick never was in this position since 70th.
The starpunching not only became failed strategy but also became most boring experience for the fans.
As a result we have fragmented fan base with some fans are just Melo fans, or KP fans, or Lin fans.
There is no more enjoyable experience to see your favorite team grow together and make strides regardless of single player fortunes.
Completely agree. It would be nice to see some continuity moving forward with some of the guys we have on the team now. Knowing KP, Willy, and our 2017 draft pick can be a core that can grow together for a long time, but also having a few guys like Holiday, Kuz, etc who can be long-term rotation players. I am looking forward to hopefully this approach now that the other hasn't worked.
Knixkik wrote:arkrud wrote:Knixkik wrote:arkrud wrote:Knixkik wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:If thats true about Melo it says a lot about him. We should have passed.
You don't give up young staters for players that won't change your direction as a franchise
I feel we had too many Melo will bring in CP3 or others dreams going on.
Nevermind what a bad fit Melo was for a coach like MDA.Then the Bargnani trade. Yuck.
Paired with Amare, Melo was supposed to change the direction of the franchise. That was the exact perception of the deal.
Direction of the franchise is not defined by one or 2 players.
This is exactly why Knicks have no direction already for almost 20 years.
Scratching the lottery tickets is not team building but just gambling.
And result is always the same - need in therapist.In a star-driven league, having 2 star players in their primes was what most teams probably consider a direction, but i agree.
I think it was multiple unfortunate examples when this strategy failed miserably and even most modern big-3 approach required very well selected support cast to make it successful. Also this strategy is only good for "final push" when team is already contending and is one peace away from the run to the title. Knick never was in this position since 70th.
The starpunching not only became failed strategy but also became most boring experience for the fans.
As a result we have fragmented fan base with some fans are just Melo fans, or KP fans, or Lin fans.
There is no more enjoyable experience to see your favorite team grow together and make strides regardless of single player fortunes.Completely agree. It would be nice to see some continuity moving forward with some of the guys we have on the team now. Knowing KP, Willy, and our 2017 draft pick can be a core that can grow together for a long time, but also having a few guys like Holiday, Kuz, etc who can be long-term rotation players. I am looking forward to hopefully this approach now that the other hasn't worked.
Watch out. Knicks cores get thrown out as fast as apple cores.
HofstraBBall wrote:Knixkik wrote:arkrud wrote:Knixkik wrote:arkrud wrote:Knixkik wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:If thats true about Melo it says a lot about him. We should have passed.
You don't give up young staters for players that won't change your direction as a franchise
I feel we had too many Melo will bring in CP3 or others dreams going on.
Nevermind what a bad fit Melo was for a coach like MDA.Then the Bargnani trade. Yuck.
Paired with Amare, Melo was supposed to change the direction of the franchise. That was the exact perception of the deal.
Direction of the franchise is not defined by one or 2 players.
This is exactly why Knicks have no direction already for almost 20 years.
Scratching the lottery tickets is not team building but just gambling.
And result is always the same - need in therapist.In a star-driven league, having 2 star players in their primes was what most teams probably consider a direction, but i agree.
I think it was multiple unfortunate examples when this strategy failed miserably and even most modern big-3 approach required very well selected support cast to make it successful. Also this strategy is only good for "final push" when team is already contending and is one peace away from the run to the title. Knick never was in this position since 70th.
The starpunching not only became failed strategy but also became most boring experience for the fans.
As a result we have fragmented fan base with some fans are just Melo fans, or KP fans, or Lin fans.
There is no more enjoyable experience to see your favorite team grow together and make strides regardless of single player fortunes.Completely agree. It would be nice to see some continuity moving forward with some of the guys we have on the team now. Knowing KP, Willy, and our 2017 draft pick can be a core that can grow together for a long time, but also having a few guys like Holiday, Kuz, etc who can be long-term rotation players. I am looking forward to hopefully this approach now that the other hasn't worked.
Watch out. Knicks cores get thrown out as fast as apple cores.
Anything possible but for now no trades are on the horizon.
It is both us not too much interested at this point of team development and not too much interest in what we would want to discuss.
Nobody interested in Rose or Melo to the extend they will give up any real assets.
Jennings is also not on the front page. Noah is unmovable. And no point for us to trade anybody else.
So most likely we will field the same team roster plus whatever picks we get next season.
arkrud wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:Knixkik wrote:arkrud wrote:Knixkik wrote:arkrud wrote:Knixkik wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:If thats true about Melo it says a lot about him. We should have passed.
You don't give up young staters for players that won't change your direction as a franchise
I feel we had too many Melo will bring in CP3 or others dreams going on.
Nevermind what a bad fit Melo was for a coach like MDA.Then the Bargnani trade. Yuck.
Paired with Amare, Melo was supposed to change the direction of the franchise. That was the exact perception of the deal.
Direction of the franchise is not defined by one or 2 players.
This is exactly why Knicks have no direction already for almost 20 years.
Scratching the lottery tickets is not team building but just gambling.
And result is always the same - need in therapist.In a star-driven league, having 2 star players in their primes was what most teams probably consider a direction, but i agree.
I think it was multiple unfortunate examples when this strategy failed miserably and even most modern big-3 approach required very well selected support cast to make it successful. Also this strategy is only good for "final push" when team is already contending and is one peace away from the run to the title. Knick never was in this position since 70th.
The starpunching not only became failed strategy but also became most boring experience for the fans.
As a result we have fragmented fan base with some fans are just Melo fans, or KP fans, or Lin fans.
There is no more enjoyable experience to see your favorite team grow together and make strides regardless of single player fortunes.Completely agree. It would be nice to see some continuity moving forward with some of the guys we have on the team now. Knowing KP, Willy, and our 2017 draft pick can be a core that can grow together for a long time, but also having a few guys like Holiday, Kuz, etc who can be long-term rotation players. I am looking forward to hopefully this approach now that the other hasn't worked.
Watch out. Knicks cores get thrown out as fast as apple cores.
Anything possible but for now no trades are on the horizon.
It is both us not too much interested at this point of team development and not too much interest in what we would want to discuss.
Nobody interested in Rose or Melo to the extend they will give up any real assets.
Jennings is also not on the front page. Noah is unmovable. And no point for us to trade anybody else.
So most likely we will field the same team roster plus whatever picks we get next season.
The only player i see really tradeable is O'Quinn, because he has some value and our depth at center is really good. I can't imagine Rose being brought back. Otherwise, i am fine bringing everyone else back with the addition of our first round selection and maybe a value free agent signing who can grow with the younger core. We will improve simply with continuity and improved chemistry, and hopefully a better fit from the PG position.
Knixkik wrote:arkrud wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:Knixkik wrote:arkrud wrote:Knixkik wrote:arkrud wrote:Knixkik wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:If thats true about Melo it says a lot about him. We should have passed.
You don't give up young staters for players that won't change your direction as a franchise
I feel we had too many Melo will bring in CP3 or others dreams going on.
Nevermind what a bad fit Melo was for a coach like MDA.Then the Bargnani trade. Yuck.
Paired with Amare, Melo was supposed to change the direction of the franchise. That was the exact perception of the deal.
Direction of the franchise is not defined by one or 2 players.
This is exactly why Knicks have no direction already for almost 20 years.
Scratching the lottery tickets is not team building but just gambling.
And result is always the same - need in therapist.In a star-driven league, having 2 star players in their primes was what most teams probably consider a direction, but i agree.
I think it was multiple unfortunate examples when this strategy failed miserably and even most modern big-3 approach required very well selected support cast to make it successful. Also this strategy is only good for "final push" when team is already contending and is one peace away from the run to the title. Knick never was in this position since 70th.
The starpunching not only became failed strategy but also became most boring experience for the fans.
As a result we have fragmented fan base with some fans are just Melo fans, or KP fans, or Lin fans.
There is no more enjoyable experience to see your favorite team grow together and make strides regardless of single player fortunes.Completely agree. It would be nice to see some continuity moving forward with some of the guys we have on the team now. Knowing KP, Willy, and our 2017 draft pick can be a core that can grow together for a long time, but also having a few guys like Holiday, Kuz, etc who can be long-term rotation players. I am looking forward to hopefully this approach now that the other hasn't worked.
Watch out. Knicks cores get thrown out as fast as apple cores.
Anything possible but for now no trades are on the horizon.
It is both us not too much interested at this point of team development and not too much interest in what we would want to discuss.
Nobody interested in Rose or Melo to the extend they will give up any real assets.
Jennings is also not on the front page. Noah is unmovable. And no point for us to trade anybody else.
So most likely we will field the same team roster plus whatever picks we get next season.The only player i see really tradeable is O'Quinn, because he has some value and our depth at center is really good. I can't imagine Rose being brought back. Otherwise, i am fine bringing everyone else back with the addition of our first round selection and maybe a value free agent signing who can grow with the younger core. We will improve simply with continuity and improved chemistry, and hopefully a better fit from the PG position.
Rose can be back only on contract which is small enough to make him movable later.
He may not agree with such a contract (around 10 mils per) but if he will have no market he will have no choice.
O'Q is tradeable but it is no point to move him unless he needs to be included in major trade to unload Melo or bring in some good player. Nothing of this kind is on the horizon. May be in of-season something can come up.
Blown off your home floor by the Lakers and then beat the Spurs.
Lack of effort isn't on management. Go out play hard, do your job, the rest falls into place. The team has sucked for 15 years and the fans are there to support every year, perhaps that's the problem, but if folks are going to pay money to see you play, you might as well play hard.
Dagger wrote:How can you compare fans in San Antonio to fans in Ny. Fans in NY have put up with horrible teams almost every season for the past 17 years. Fans in San Antonio have had one losing season in decades. Of course the fans will behave differently...
Chicken and egg...
In small markets there is no other way to run franchise with any kind of profit without winning.
NYorkers are of course self-entitled bunch and consider of course that they know better.
During lats 17 years I enjoyed Knocks only when they play without Melos and Marbs alike.
Give me some effort and passion and I will gladly take it without a talent because I know that add a talent to well structured team with winning culture is just a matter of time. This how it was done with Rangers and many other pro teams.
MS wrote:Yes blame the fans.Blown off your home floor by the Lakers and then beat the Spurs.
Lack of effort isn't on management. Go out play hard, do your job, the rest falls into place. The team has sucked for 15 years and the fans are there to support every year, perhaps that's the problem, but if folks are going to pay money to see you play, you might as well play hard.
+1
arkrud wrote:MS wrote:Yes blame the fans.Blown off your home floor by the Lakers and then beat the Spurs.
Lack of effort isn't on management. Go out play hard, do your job, the rest falls into place. The team has sucked for 15 years and the fans are there to support every year, perhaps that's the problem, but if folks are going to pay money to see you play, you might as well play hard.
+1
Playing in front of NY fans is like playing ball with all the old school players as fans. No pressure.....lol....... The good news is playing on the road is less stressful, as you see the knicks with a huge lead.....
I remember a interview of Tony Parker when he said about defense in SA: "With Pop, if you defend, you don't play".
I wish it was applied in NY.
blkexec wrote:I'm from New York. Until the fans change and support, like how they do in San Antonio, there is going to be a bunch of chaos. They need to stop blaming the players, and stop blaming the ownership, and the fans as a whole need to blame themselves." Artest
During the last major labor war, it became pretty apparent that many NBA players are simply out of touch with their fanbase and with reality.
Outside of soccer, the NBA SHOULD be the No#1 professional sport in the world. During the last labor war, Bill Simmons had some interesting discussions about individual professional athletes and how NBA players are some of the most recognizable in the world. Then he pointed out how NBA players and their behavior simply drives away many fans.
Ross Tucker was a former NFL offensive lineman and he pointed out, unlike MLB and the NFL, NBA players don't have the same dues process involved. Even if you are a top notch prospect in baseball, you still have to play in the minors. You still have to ride buses and stay in crappy motels and police your own gear and live on the edge of nothing, along with lots of other guys who are barely hanging on. In the NFL, the fear is constant that if you get hurt, you will lose your job and someone is always hunting to take your job. Tucker pointed out there is rarely a case like LBJ, where a player gets a massive endorsement deal BEFORE he's even played a minute in the NBA, then dubbed royalty, and never has to pay any dues, and immediately is one of the best player in the league.
Blame the fans for what? They pay for their tickets, they have the right to boo if they want. This comes part and parcel with all the BENEFITS of being a pro athlete. Alonzo Mourning needed a new kidney, once he announced his health problems, he got offers for EIGHTEEN donors the next day. Would this happen for Mourning if he was just a non celebrity working a regular Joe job? I call that kind of option in life a TINY price to pay to hear some occasional boos.
I've been in places in the world where CHILDREN are sold into sexual slavery. I've been to places where no one has even basic clean drinking water. I've been to places where children are armed and used as soldiers and cannon fodder.
And your biggest problem in life is hearing some boos?
Some people are out of touch with reality. For example, if you have never played in the NBA, and you talk like you compare your athletic history on a message board with the issues and complications of being an NBA player, like you "get it", to me, that's completely out of touch with basic reality. But some people are going to do it.
Most of us saw Wayne Chrebet play for the NY Jets. Undrafted. Fought to just make the roster. Fought to start. Fought to be productive. Bled for every inch of it. NO ONE GAVE HIM ANYTHING. He never acted entitled to anything. He never acted like he was owned anything. He just dug in, kept his head low, outworked everyone and bled for it. NO ONE EVER BOOED HIM. Play the game the right way, and then you'll start to hear things you want to hear. And if you are the kind of person who can't handle some boos, then it means you can let others invade your personal frame, your own sense of ability and self to do your job, and what does that make you? Society expects that out of women and children, but not men. Anyone who can't handle public criticism as a pro athlete and can't handle a few boos, well to me, that's a good job reacting like a f**king woman. Changing your tampon, princess, and deal with it.
NO ONE GIVES YOU JACK SH!T IN THIS LIFE. MEN UNDERSTAND THAT. YOU WANT SOMETHING? YOU WANT RESPECT? BLEED FOR IT AND GO AND TAKE IT.
Ron Artest and anyone else who wants to cry otherwise need to go change their tampon because their mangina is leaking too much.
TripleThreat wrote:blkexec wrote:I'm from New York. Until the fans change and support, like how they do in San Antonio, there is going to be a bunch of chaos. They need to stop blaming the players, and stop blaming the ownership, and the fans as a whole need to blame themselves." Artest
During the last major labor war, it became pretty apparent that many NBA players are simply out of touch with their fanbase and with reality.Outside of soccer, the NBA SHOULD be the No#1 professional sport in the world. During the last labor war, Bill Simmons had some interesting discussions about individual professional athletes and how NBA players are some of the most recognizable in the world. Then he pointed out how NBA players and their behavior simply drives away many fans.
Ross Tucker was a former NFL offensive lineman and he pointed out, unlike MLB and the NFL, NBA players don't have the same dues process involved. Even if you are a top notch prospect in baseball, you still have to play in the minors. You still have to ride buses and stay in crappy motels and police your own gear and live on the edge of nothing, along with lots of other guys who are barely hanging on. In the NFL, the fear is constant that if you get hurt, you will lose your job and someone is always hunting to take your job. Tucker pointed out there is rarely a case like LBJ, where a player gets a massive endorsement deal BEFORE he's even played a minute in the NBA, then dubbed royalty, and never has to pay any dues, and immediately is one of the best player in the league.
Blame the fans for what? They pay for their tickets, they have the right to boo if they want. This comes part and parcel with all the BENEFITS of being a pro athlete. Alonzo Mourning needed a new kidney, once he announced his health problems, he got offers for EIGHTEEN donors the next day. Would this happen for Mourning if he was just a non celebrity working a regular Joe job? I call that kind of option in life a TINY price to pay to hear some occasional boos.
I've been in places in the world where CHILDREN are sold into sexual slavery. I've been to places where no one has even basic clean drinking water. I've been to places where children are armed and used as soldiers and cannon fodder.
And your biggest problem in life is hearing some boos?
Some people are out of touch with reality. For example, if you have never played in the NBA, and you talk like you compare your athletic history on a message board with the issues and complications of being an NBA player, like you "get it", to me, that's completely out of touch with basic reality. But some people are going to do it.
Most of us saw Wayne Chrebet play for the NY Jets. Undrafted. Fought to just make the roster. Fought to start. Fought to be productive. Bled for every inch of it. NO ONE GAVE HIM ANYTHING. He never acted entitled to anything. He never acted like he was owned anything. He just dug in, kept his head low, outworked everyone and bled for it. NO ONE EVER BOOED HIM. Play the game the right way, and then you'll start to hear things you want to hear. And if you are the kind of person who can't handle some boos, then it means you can let others invade your personal frame, your own sense of ability and self to do your job, and what does that make you? Society expects that out of women and children, but not men. Anyone who can't handle public criticism as a pro athlete and can't handle a few boos, well to me, that's a good job reacting like a f**king woman. Changing your tampon, princess, and deal with it.
NO ONE GIVES YOU JACK SH!T IN THIS LIFE. MEN UNDERSTAND THAT. YOU WANT SOMETHING? YOU WANT RESPECT? BLEED FOR IT AND GO AND TAKE IT.
Ron Artest and anyone else who wants to cry otherwise need to go change their tampon because their mangina is leaking too much.
99% of people are not capable of accepting reality as it is.
It is not natural for human brain to do so.
Most of us see the world as we want it be not as it is.
We need to protect the sanity of our weak mind.
That's why we need drugs, alcohol, tobacco, politics, television, and porn.
And that's why 99% of people cannot move the civilization forward.
They just consume what 1% of those who can take reality for what it is and so able to transform and enhance it to became what they want it to be. And the only way for force 99% to participate is to put them in the position when they do not have any other choice.
Brutal? Yes. Unhuman? Yes. But there is no other way
Same for pro athletes. It is hard to accept your deficiencies and work on them if there is no one around to be right into your face. If there are no settings which force the athlete to work on his game and his personality. So it not about athletes but about the system, the organization which has the settings to make them the winners of does not have.
arkrud wrote:
Same for pro athletes. It is hard to accept your deficiencies and work on them if there is no one around to be right into your face. If there are no settings which force the athlete to work on his game and his personality. So it not about athletes but about the system, the organization which has the settings to make them the winners of does not have.
I do not disagree with you that the current NBA structure and model does not force an athlete to work on his game and be accountable. The height dependency in the talent pool creates such gaps in tiers of talent that some players ( like a Jamal Crawford or a young Vince Carter) can coast.
It's why I've always said, and this was a hard push by some owners in the last major labor war, that a HARD CAP and widespread general use of NON GUARANTEED CONTRACTS would benefit the game itself.
STAT is a useful player and a top shelf production guy - Get paid like a top shelf guy
Stop being a top shelf guy? GET CUT.
Do you think STAT would work on his defense and work on a useful three point shot if he knew he could get cut at any time and get not one penny more?
GUARANTEED CONTRACTS are great for the player, his family, his agent and his investors or brands. Not great for fans. Not great when you have to wait 3-4 years for a bad contract or a malcontent to shed off your roster.
Teams could rebuild faster, could absorb making mistakes ( the current system demands nearly mistake free personnel decisions, which is nearly impossible) and player would have to be accountable. You think Kobe would cuss and scream at media, fans and other team mates if those last two years, he could have just been cut without one more dime coming to him?
Ron Artest blames the fans in part because the system in place coddled him like a child.
"We make a lot of money, but we spend a lot too" Patrick Ewing said that. He said that about why NBA players should more of the revenue pie from owners. I'm not against any dude getting what he can get, but it was a truly out of touch and stupid thing to say in public. Rip Hamilton in Detroit, because he hated John Kuester his coach, and wanted out, did nothing but sulk and whine and be a malcontent and endlessly talk in the press about how he hated his job and Detroit. In a city that has just been gutted by the recession and dot com bust. People were losing their homes. Old people had to make decisions on whether to buy their medicine or their groceries, having to choose one or the other. Jalen Rose said it best, HARD is not billionaires getting into arguments with celebrity millionaire athletes. Hard is when you are a parent just trying to raise your kids and keep food on the table, and you have ten bills to pay and you can only pay 4 of them. He said, thats HARD, and that NBA player and the NBA culture is way out of touch with reality. And it alienates the fanbase in general. People want HEROES but they want heroes they can relate to in life.
Fans have the right to boo. They have the right to have high expectations. They have to right to make signs and post on boards and say they don't like this or that about "their team" The fan doesn't ask you to feel sorry for him that he has to work two jobs to make ends meet and keep his kids fed does he? Then why the flying f**k does he want to hear some young celebrity millionaire who flies in private charter jets and gets top notch accommodations and fame and access bitch about having to just do his job like a professional and suck it up when he hears things he doesn't want to hear?
Blame the fans?
What kind of f**ked up happy horsesh!t is that?
Without the FANS, Alonzo Mourning would be DEAD. If his kids needed a kidney or a liver and he was just a Joe truck driver, his kids WOULD BE DEAD. That kind of free pass to "cut in line" in life, that isn't enough for these dudes?
Do you know why Linsanity was so huge? It's not just because he was Asian, it's because fans could relate to him and relate to his struggle and relate to his open gratitude for chasing his dream. It's because it's easy to root for someone you can relate to and like as a person. NO ONE WANTS TO ROOT FOR AN @SSHOLE. This is not some strange bizarre concept. This is why the NBA falls so far behind the NFL in terms of world wide popularity.
When bad fans happen to good teams....
- Musicians: when they play bad music, it's the audience's fault.
- Writers: write bad books, their readers are to blame.
- Restaurants: When they give diners food poisoning, it's the diner's fault.
BasketballJones wrote:
When bad fans happen to good teams....
- Musicians: when they play bad music, it's the audience's fault.
- Writers: write bad books, their readers are to blame.
- Restaurants: When they give diners food poisoning, it's the diner's fault.
Musicians are a good example, actually- if the audience are great, appreciative, the gig is better and the musician plays better, for longer. If the audience heckle, stink and boo, they get annoyed, play worse and cut the gig short.