Knicks · The Greater Implications of the NOP-SAC Trade (page 1)
Also, should this trade concern us about the resources we are currently investing in players like Willy Hernangomez and Kyle O'Quinn? I do wonder because as much as I've liked both, I can't help but feel that there will only be limited minutes available to play a two big front with either of them and KP. It seems a bit redundant and counterproductive if the opponent has a swingman at the 4 spot, operating on the perimeter. Thoughts?
CrushAlot wrote:I think it is because he was going to try and get a 200 million plus extension from Sac.
When has overpaying stopped the Kings before? Everyone on that roster, save Darren Collison (and maybe Rudy Gay, who I've never liked), is well above their paygrade.
CrushAlot wrote:I think it is because he was going to try and get a 200 million plus extension from Sac.
And because the Kings owner and GM are essentially Harry and Lloyd
Cousins has a ton of talent but he's got some issues that I don't see with Willy and KP. I expect Willy is going to be able to expand his range and KP will improve his post game, which will make them extremely flexible on offense. I see them improving on D as well. I really don't think the negatives of the Traditional Big applies to KP and Willy as much.
NardDogNation wrote:CrushAlot wrote:I think it is because he was going to try and get a 200 million plus extension from Sac.When has overpaying stopped the Kings before? Everyone on that roster, save Darren Collison (and maybe Rudy Gay, who I've never liked), is well above their paygrade.
Who? I can't figure that out in this day and salary cap? Maybe a little but certainly not across the board.
nixluva wrote:Willy and KP are a wonderful tandem that should only grow stronger as they develop and improve their games. IMO the key is going to be continuing to add high level 2way, Team Oriented players around them. They are both smart and capable of playing any style IMO.Cousins has a ton of talent but he's got some issues that I don't see with Willy and KP. I expect Willy is going to be able to expand his range and KP will improve his post game, which will make them extremely flexible on offense. I see them improving on D as well. I really don't think the negatives of the Traditional Big applies to KP and Willy as much.
So you see Willy, KP and O'Quinn chasing swingmen around on the perimeter for some portion of 48 minutes a game?
Knixkik wrote:This deal had a lot of factors but i don't think the value of the traditional big man is one of them. Cousins is a headcase, is essentially on an expiring contract, and is coming from a franchise that teams low-ball because they know how dysfunctional they are. The ironic thing is, that new rule in the CBA designed to keep star players with their teams was one of the main reasons Cousins finally got traded.
+1
NardDogNation wrote:nixluva wrote:Willy and KP are a wonderful tandem that should only grow stronger as they develop and improve their games. IMO the key is going to be continuing to add high level 2way, Team Oriented players around them. They are both smart and capable of playing any style IMO.Cousins has a ton of talent but he's got some issues that I don't see with Willy and KP. I expect Willy is going to be able to expand his range and KP will improve his post game, which will make them extremely flexible on offense. I see them improving on D as well. I really don't think the negatives of the Traditional Big applies to KP and Willy as much.
So you see Willy, KP and O'Quinn chasing swingmen around on the perimeter for some portion of 48 minutes a game?
I don't see O'Quinn as a long-term piece here, but i think KP and Willy will be fine together. They should really be the only 2 traditional big men playing big minutes long-term. So if they start together, you can probably play about half the game with 2 big men then the other half playing small-ball. I think finding the right balance of both is key. And we will need to eventually become an elite perimeter defensive team for it to work well.
martin wrote:NardDogNation wrote:CrushAlot wrote:I think it is because he was going to try and get a 200 million plus extension from Sac.When has overpaying stopped the Kings before? Everyone on that roster, save Darren Collison (and maybe Rudy Gay, who I've never liked), is well above their paygrade.
Who? I can't figure that out in this day and salary cap? Maybe a little but certainly not across the board.
You're right, it is not across the board. I meant in the context of free agent signings, since rookie deals are usually reasonable for production. And the Kings have quite a few rookie deals on their roster still.
But Aaron Afflalo at $12.5 million is overpaid, though the lack of length on the contract counteracts it a bit. Third-string extraordinaire, Anthony Tolliver is overpaid at $8 million per for 2. What other team would've paid a career journeyman that? Garrett Temple at $8 million per for 3 years. They've given vet minimim Ty Lawson minutes over him in the aftermath of his contract, which says something given where Lawson currently is in his career. I will say though that Kostas Koufus contract looks solid, I just don't think he ever got a real chance because of Cousins being on the team. But if you take a marco-look at the Vivek era, guys like Rajon Rondo, Marcus Thornton, Carl Landry immediately come to mind.
NardDogNation wrote:nixluva wrote:Willy and KP are a wonderful tandem that should only grow stronger as they develop and improve their games. IMO the key is going to be continuing to add high level 2way, Team Oriented players around them. They are both smart and capable of playing any style IMO.Cousins has a ton of talent but he's got some issues that I don't see with Willy and KP. I expect Willy is going to be able to expand his range and KP will improve his post game, which will make them extremely flexible on offense. I see them improving on D as well. I really don't think the negatives of the Traditional Big applies to KP and Willy as much.
So you see Willy, KP and O'Quinn chasing swingmen around on the perimeter for some portion of 48 minutes a game?
You just worried about the stretch 4.... shooting guards playing power fwd like playing nba live online back in the day. Just shoot all the big men in the head and run nothing but swing men all lined up taking 3s
EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:nixluva wrote:Willy and KP are a wonderful tandem that should only grow stronger as they develop and improve their games. IMO the key is going to be continuing to add high level 2way, Team Oriented players around them. They are both smart and capable of playing any style IMO.Cousins has a ton of talent but he's got some issues that I don't see with Willy and KP. I expect Willy is going to be able to expand his range and KP will improve his post game, which will make them extremely flexible on offense. I see them improving on D as well. I really don't think the negatives of the Traditional Big applies to KP and Willy as much.
So you see Willy, KP and O'Quinn chasing swingmen around on the perimeter for some portion of 48 minutes a game?
You just worried about the stretch 4.... shooting guards playing power fwd like playing nba live online back in the day. Just shoot all the big men in the head and run nothing but swing men all lined up taking 3s
Yeah, which is what most playoff teams are increasingly doing.
From what I have read, some think SAC did good on its trade, some not so good.
Cousins is the games most talented big man, but a freaking head case. His talent has given him numerous passes. He eats coaches, and frustrated his owners.
That he is due to earn a $200 mil extension is a scary proposition.
Perhaps paired with the Unibrow he might find the change of scene good and accountable to his behavior going forward.
Naturally we read the implications this has on melo as we would not get nearly the haul in return. No shyt.
As for melo, the reluctant allstar, Im not quite sure what to make of all this now. I admire his devotion to the team. Phil also has a job to do here.
Knicks have to improve.
Nalod wrote:Lets see where SAC is in a few years before we judge too hard.
From what I have read, some think SAC did good on its trade, some not so good.
Cousins is the games most talented big man, but a freaking head case. His talent has given him numerous passes. He eats coaches, and frustrated his owners.
That he is due to earn a $200 mil extension is a scary proposition.
Perhaps paired with the Unibrow he might find the change of scene good and accountable to his behavior going forward.
Naturally we read the implications this has on melo as we would not get nearly the haul in return. No shyt.
As for melo, the reluctant allstar, Im not quite sure what to make of all this now. I admire his devotion to the team. Phil also has a job to do here.
Knicks have to improve.
I'm kind of in this camp. But why does everyone keep repeating DMC is the most talented? Not sure I agree and in fact I think he will be the 2d best on NOP
He is also far from the first center I would build a team around, and I think he's a head case cancer.
As dysfunctional as SAC is people also need to ask do they honestly think this was the only offer? No, of course not, but it happened to be the best because all of the other teams were frightened to death of tying up their cap so much for such a cuckoo bird.
Time will tell. If cousin plays not crazy, he and AD will be a formidable opponent and the opposite of small ball -- but I'm not holding my breath on that
NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:nixluva wrote:Willy and KP are a wonderful tandem that should only grow stronger as they develop and improve their games. IMO the key is going to be continuing to add high level 2way, Team Oriented players around them. They are both smart and capable of playing any style IMO.Cousins has a ton of talent but he's got some issues that I don't see with Willy and KP. I expect Willy is going to be able to expand his range and KP will improve his post game, which will make them extremely flexible on offense. I see them improving on D as well. I really don't think the negatives of the Traditional Big applies to KP and Willy as much.
So you see Willy, KP and O'Quinn chasing swingmen around on the perimeter for some portion of 48 minutes a game?
You just worried about the stretch 4.... shooting guards playing power fwd like playing nba live online back in the day. Just shoot all the big men in the head and run nothing but swing men all lined up taking 3s
Yeah, which is what most playoff teams are increasingly doing.
KP and Willy are not plodding bigs tho! KP can already play away from the basket and Willy is more agile and quick than he looks. They won't be a problem as long as the rest of the roster is upgraded with athletic and quick players!
We already have some roster flexibility and should add more this summer I hope! Getting rid of Rose n Melo would allow better defenders to be brought in and added to the rotation.
nixluva wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:nixluva wrote:Willy and KP are a wonderful tandem that should only grow stronger as they develop and improve their games. IMO the key is going to be continuing to add high level 2way, Team Oriented players around them. They are both smart and capable of playing any style IMO.Cousins has a ton of talent but he's got some issues that I don't see with Willy and KP. I expect Willy is going to be able to expand his range and KP will improve his post game, which will make them extremely flexible on offense. I see them improving on D as well. I really don't think the negatives of the Traditional Big applies to KP and Willy as much.
So you see Willy, KP and O'Quinn chasing swingmen around on the perimeter for some portion of 48 minutes a game?
You just worried about the stretch 4.... shooting guards playing power fwd like playing nba live online back in the day. Just shoot all the big men in the head and run nothing but swing men all lined up taking 3s
Yeah, which is what most playoff teams are increasingly doing.
KP and Willy are not plodding bigs tho! KP can already play away from the basket and Willy is more agile and quick than he looks. They won't be a problem as long as the rest of the roster is upgraded with athletic and quick players!
We already have some roster flexibility and should add more this summer I hope! Getting rid of Rose n Melo would allow better defenders to be brought in and added to the rotation.
Yeah the concept is really simple. With KP and Willy you hope we add a great playmaker at PG and fill the wing positions with elite defenders who can shoot and are athletic. We have a foundation with these 2 guys so at least that gives us a direction.
nixluva wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:nixluva wrote:Willy and KP are a wonderful tandem that should only grow stronger as they develop and improve their games. IMO the key is going to be continuing to add high level 2way, Team Oriented players around them. They are both smart and capable of playing any style IMO.Cousins has a ton of talent but he's got some issues that I don't see with Willy and KP. I expect Willy is going to be able to expand his range and KP will improve his post game, which will make them extremely flexible on offense. I see them improving on D as well. I really don't think the negatives of the Traditional Big applies to KP and Willy as much.
So you see Willy, KP and O'Quinn chasing swingmen around on the perimeter for some portion of 48 minutes a game?
You just worried about the stretch 4.... shooting guards playing power fwd like playing nba live online back in the day. Just shoot all the big men in the head and run nothing but swing men all lined up taking 3s
Yeah, which is what most playoff teams are increasingly doing.
KP and Willy are not plodding bigs tho! KP can already play away from the basket and Willy is more agile and quick than he looks. They won't be a problem as long as the rest of the roster is upgraded with athletic and quick players!
We already have some roster flexibility and should add more this summer I hope! Getting rid of Rose n Melo would allow better defenders to be brought in and added to the rotation.
The game is played on two ends of the floor and defensively, neither project to be good perimeter defenders.
So easy for fans to say "I'd get at least one more first rounder"..........
Trade Impact for knicks? None. Galloway come back home?
Has to clear waivers, then we have to make a spot for him. I think Baker could be better.
I like Langston, but he serves no purpose at this time unless we are making a trade or two.
Sasha has a good roll at little money.
NardDogNation wrote:nixluva wrote:NardDogNation wrote:EnySpree wrote:NardDogNation wrote:nixluva wrote:Willy and KP are a wonderful tandem that should only grow stronger as they develop and improve their games. IMO the key is going to be continuing to add high level 2way, Team Oriented players around them. They are both smart and capable of playing any style IMO.Cousins has a ton of talent but he's got some issues that I don't see with Willy and KP. I expect Willy is going to be able to expand his range and KP will improve his post game, which will make them extremely flexible on offense. I see them improving on D as well. I really don't think the negatives of the Traditional Big applies to KP and Willy as much.
So you see Willy, KP and O'Quinn chasing swingmen around on the perimeter for some portion of 48 minutes a game?
You just worried about the stretch 4.... shooting guards playing power fwd like playing nba live online back in the day. Just shoot all the big men in the head and run nothing but swing men all lined up taking 3s
Yeah, which is what most playoff teams are increasingly doing.
KP and Willy are not plodding bigs tho! KP can already play away from the basket and Willy is more agile and quick than he looks. They won't be a problem as long as the rest of the roster is upgraded with athletic and quick players!
We already have some roster flexibility and should add more this summer I hope! Getting rid of Rose n Melo would allow better defenders to be brought in and added to the rotation.
The game is played on two ends of the floor and defensively, neither project to be good perimeter defenders.
So you build around them with that in mind. Load up with strong perimeter defenders and balance out their weaknesses. KP is an elite rim protector and Willy has the base to be a good post defender. Perimeter defense may always be an issue for both, but they may end up being so good together offensively, that teams may be forced to play bigger when playing against them, which would lessen the concern on the defensive end.