corvetteknick wrote:Not trading Rose at the deadline is all you need to know as to how little Phil cares and how over-matched in this job he is. The fact that you had a shot to dump him for a pass-first PG at a reasonable rate (i.e cheaper than Noah) for 2 years and to see how he could work with KP, Willy, and even Melo vs. keeping a guy who you KNOW can't work with those 3 guys, and who seems to be a day-to-day mood swing from going AWOL at any time - mind-boggling that he is still on this team. If the Knicks re-sign Rose - you can write off this team off until 2023 at least.
You do realize that by keeping him until his salary expires, we gain cap space when he goes- $21mil worth, that you can then use to take on salary for picks. If we trade melo in the offseason to the Clips, we would end up with Rivers, and as I've said a few times, Rivers and Rubio (plus a drafted PG) makes little sense and takes up too much salary.
Knicks have on contact or early bird rights for next year
Hernangomez/OQuinn/Noah
Porzingis/Thomas
Melo/Kuzminskas
Lee/Holiday
Rose
Have about $22M to spend on a point guard if they let Rose walk, plus the lottery pick.
If they had traded for Rubio, the only move they could make in free agency was a $10M type of role player signing.
Now I was for Rubio, but right now the Knicks can easily clear a contract like Thomas or OQuinn and create a big chunk for a player like Jrue Holiday or sign two quality role players like George Hill and JJ Redick.
But the truth is our roster is sort of set for another year unless we make a Melo trade. The improvement has to come within internally through drafting well in lotto 2017, KP and Willy improving. I'd love to sign two quality free agents who can defend. We need to add an assistant coach who is in charge of the defense.
Who is the right point guard for this team? I don't know. Rubio would have been nice but teams would have sagged off him and Noah so much and added all kinds of pressure on KP, Melo and Lee.
I'm not sure who we will sign but let's wait until mid July. Let's see what happens with Melo, who we draft, and who we sign with the cap space opened up in keeping Rose the entire year. This is a 35 win team that really played below its standards. With a good PG, some better defense, young player development and better defensive coaching I could see us 6-8 wins better next year. 6-8 wins where we are in the standings is the difference from a 11th spot or a 6th seed playoff team.
Phil needs to draft extremely well and we need to be smart in how we use the cap money. We need to add defensive talent with the FA money. We need to get a coach in who knows defense. Most important our young players like KP, Willy and the lottery pick need to work their ass off in the offseason to be ready to play big roles.
A sign and trade of Rose is NY's best option. Second best is letting him walk. Worse thing they can do is resign him. I would be shocked if that happens.
Rose is not making himself look good with any of this crap and it is likely that he will have a tough time finding a team next year.
You do realize that by keeping him until his salary expires, we gain cap space when he goes- $21mil worth, that you can then use to take on salary for picks. If we trade melo in the offseason to the Clips, we would end up with Rivers, and as I've said a few times, Rivers and Rubio (plus a drafted PG) makes little sense and takes up too much salary.Yes - I'm aware of that, but have to wonder if there is a better PG solution out there for the next 2 years than Rubio. At best - the Knicks could have Rubio for 2 years at a reasonable rate, draft a PG/SG with their 1st rounder and see how Rubio meshes with Melo, KP, et al, and then adjust again in 2 years
As for cap space - it means very little for the Knicks, seeing that: 1) They don't know how to use it (Noah for $18M/yr, Thomas for $7M/yr), and 2) Anyone of quality (better than Rubio) is not going to come here. I have watched the Knicks for years butcher cap space chasing something that is not there. And it's just not a Phil thing - consider this - both Zach Randolph and Jamaal Crawford are still productive players on good teams 8 YEARS AFTER the Knicks trade them to create cap space to sign a big FA in 2010, and all the ended up with was a an overpaid bum like Amare (not even half the player Zack has been during that time). The Knicks and cap space do not mesh - good players want nothing to do with this place until Phil leaves.
corvetteknick wrote:You do realize that by keeping him until his salary expires, we gain cap space when he goes- $21mil worth, that you can then use to take on salary for picks. If we trade melo in the offseason to the Clips, we would end up with Rivers, and as I've said a few times, Rivers and Rubio (plus a drafted PG) makes little sense and takes up too much salary.Yes - I'm aware of that, but have to wonder if there is a better PG solution out there for the next 2 years than Rubio. At best - the Knicks could have Rubio for 2 years at a reasonable rate, draft a PG/SG with their 1st rounder and see how Rubio meshes with Melo, KP, et al, and then adjust again in 2 years
As for cap space - it means very little for the Knicks, seeing that: 1) They don't know how to use it (Noah for $18M/yr, Thomas for $7M/yr), and 2) Anyone of quality (better than Rubio) is not going to come here. I have watched the Knicks for years butcher cap space chasing something that is not there. And it's just not a Phil thing - consider this - both Zach Randolph and Jamaal Crawford are still productive players on good teams 8 YEARS AFTER the Knicks trade them to create cap space to sign a big FA in 2010, and all the ended up with was a an overpaid bum like Amare (not even half the player Zack has been during that time). The Knicks and cap space do not mesh - good players want nothing to do with this place until Phil leaves.
Agree, except that I think good players would want Dolan gone, too.
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:A sign and trade of Rose is NY's best option. Second best is letting him walk. Worse thing they can do is resign him. I would be shocked if that happens. Rose is not making himself look good with any of this crap and it is likely that he will have a tough time finding a team next year.
I'm pretty sure you can't do sign and trades anymore under the new CBA (and the past one too)
nyknickzingis wrote:Knicks have on contact or early bird rights for next yearHernangomez/OQuinn/Noah
Porzingis/Thomas
Melo/Kuzminskas
Lee/Holiday
Rose
Have about $22M to spend on a point guard if they let Rose walk, plus the lottery pick.
If they had traded for Rubio, the only move they could make in free agency was a $10M type of role player signing.
Now I was for Rubio, but right now the Knicks can easily clear a contract like Thomas or OQuinn and create a big chunk for a player like Jrue Holiday or sign two quality role players like George Hill and JJ Redick.
But the truth is our roster is sort of set for another year unless we make a Melo trade. The improvement has to come within internally through drafting well in lotto 2017, KP and Willy improving. I'd love to sign two quality free agents who can defend. We need to add an assistant coach who is in charge of the defense.
Who is the right point guard for this team? I don't know. Rubio would have been nice but teams would have sagged off him and Noah so much and added all kinds of pressure on KP, Melo and Lee.
I'm not sure who we will sign but let's wait until mid July. Let's see what happens with Melo, who we draft, and who we sign with the cap space opened up in keeping Rose the entire year. This is a 35 win team that really played below its standards. With a good PG, some better defense, young player development and better defensive coaching I could see us 6-8 wins better next year. 6-8 wins where we are in the standings is the difference from a 11th spot or a 6th seed playoff team.
Phil needs to draft extremely well and we need to be smart in how we use the cap money. We need to add defensive talent with the FA money. We need to get a coach in who knows defense. Most important our young players like KP, Willy and the lottery pick need to work their ass off in the offseason to be ready to play big roles.
I'm kind of glad most of the players are staying- we need some continuity, it's stupid turning the roster over and over again. Get rid of Rose, Jennings is gone, there's no one else I'm desperate to get rid of (except for Melo!)
corvetteknick wrote:You do realize that by keeping him until his salary expires, we gain cap space when he goes- $21mil worth, that you can then use to take on salary for picks. If we trade melo in the offseason to the Clips, we would end up with Rivers, and as I've said a few times, Rivers and Rubio (plus a drafted PG) makes little sense and takes up too much salary.Yes - I'm aware of that, but have to wonder if there is a better PG solution out there for the next 2 years than Rubio. At best - the Knicks could have Rubio for 2 years at a reasonable rate, draft a PG/SG with their 1st rounder and see how Rubio meshes with Melo, KP, et al, and then adjust again in 2 years
As for cap space - it means very little for the Knicks, seeing that: 1) They don't know how to use it (Noah for $18M/yr, Thomas for $7M/yr), and 2) Anyone of quality (better than Rubio) is not going to come here. I have watched the Knicks for years butcher cap space chasing something that is not there. And it's just not a Phil thing - consider this - both Zach Randolph and Jamaal Crawford are still productive players on good teams 8 YEARS AFTER the Knicks trade them to create cap space to sign a big FA in 2010, and all the ended up with was a an overpaid bum like Amare (not even half the player Zack has been during that time). The Knicks and cap space do not mesh - good players want nothing to do with this place until Phil leaves.
Phil asking for more assets was more then reasonable.
Rubio with Towns, Wiggins, Lavine, Dieng is on a 23win team out west right now. I don't see his impact on this squad. He may be easier on the eyes then Rose but the win/lose record will remain the same. Id rather have the cap space and someone like MCW on a Jennings contract for a year while we give heavy mins to our lotto pick.
The goal at this point should be to add as much assets as possible for the future. And the 21 mil in cap space should be used in that respect. Meaning id rather eat a contract that a team wants to dump that has a yr left on it and get a draft pick out of it then just eat Rubio's contract with no asset attached to it. I don't think there is any more illusion of competing next year. Or any realistic available options other then drafting. Since Rubio doesn't bring assets with him, he isn't really necessary. Odds are he would turn out like Rose and Calderon and we are going to begging to get rid of him due to the flaws he displays. .
You guys realize that minny wanted MORE than just Rose in that potential Rubio deal, right? You're killing Jackson for messing up the trade when in reality minny wanted the Knicks to part with rose andnother assets. Phil would have driven rose to minnesota if it brought back Rubio. Minny wanted more. Other reports speculate that thibs pulled out beczuse he feels he can sign rose in offseason as a free agent.
phil needs to cut his ass 1 day after no FA signings are allowed by playoff teams.
Cartman718 wrote:phil needs to cut his ass 1 day after no FA signings are allowed by playoff teams.
That would be tomorrow. Sounds like we're keeping him as Hornacek said we cut Jennings because there were no minutes for him because of Rose (total BS, but he's unlikely to use Rose as his cover story if he was about to be cut also)
Phil needs to build a wall and make Chicago pay for it
CrushAlot wrote:
He is showcasing good PR heading into FA.
He will not play poor or bad or do something stupid in heading to free agency so close.
He wants that 100 million contract.
I think he is still a good player when he passes the ball, but I don't want any part of him on a big deal. If we can not sign a better point guard, and we trade Melo, I am open to keeping Rose if the money is right (for me $70M/3years is the max I'd go, maybe a 4th year team option).
A PG that can not shoot outside shots is a liability on offense. Most likely the DRose experiment is winding down.
CrushAlot wrote:
i'd like to know if both were excused. i could see kp getting treatment on his ankle, since he was just injured.
nyk4ever wrote:CrushAlot wrote:
i'd like to know if both were excused. i could see kp getting treatment on his ankle, since he was just injured.
it was an optional practice, so by nature they were excused.
martin wrote:nyk4ever wrote:CrushAlot wrote:
i'd like to know if both were excused. i could see kp getting treatment on his ankle, since he was just injured.
it was an optional practice, so by nature they were excused.
Yeah i would think both Melo and KP determined they get more value from resting their bodies.
martin wrote:nyk4ever wrote:CrushAlot wrote:
i'd like to know if both were excused. i could see kp getting treatment on his ankle, since he was just injured.
it was an optional practice, so by nature they were excused.
No excuse until Fans say they are!
Nalod wrote:martin wrote:nyk4ever wrote:CrushAlot wrote:
i'd like to know if both were excused. i could see kp getting treatment on his ankle, since he was just injured.
it was an optional practice, so by nature they were excused.
No excuse until Fans say they are!
I would expect those guys to miss. I think Rose is trying to get a contract. He was set to be resigned in ny before the awol.
