Knicks · Can we man up and acknowledge that Phil messed up this past summer (2016)? (page 1)
Jennings, released.
Rose, about to be cut.
Meanwhile, back in reality, Robin Lopez has started every game this year, after playing all 82 for us.
We essentially traded him for nothing and an injured player who should retire.
How do you mess up this badly? And keep your job?
Noah looked very good and is made for the system. if he has helped Willy, its worth it.
Oh wait, Willy joined in the summer of 2016.
And KOQ got it together in the summer of 2016.
And KP is progressoing nicely.
And he got Baker.
Ropez was the price. Holiday for grant was a wash.
Willy will be better then Ropez. What a great pick he was!!!!!!!
How do you fire a guy for creating cap space while auditioning two very good talents?
and for the first time since eddie donovan was GM we have all our no. 1 picks going forward!!!
franco12 wrote:Noah, done for the season. He played 46 games this year, off a year he played 29. Age 31.how badly? Lopez is not having a good year. Grant has not had a good year. What was Lopez's future with the Knicks? Was he a building block cornerstone player? Was Grant? Lopez was a stop gap, traded to bring in more firepower for Melo.Jennings, released.
Rose, about to be cut.
Meanwhile, back in reality, Robin Lopez has started every game this year, after playing all 82 for us.
We essentially traded him for nothing and an injured player who should retire.
How do you mess up this badly? And keep your job?
The Rose/Jennings/Noah additions where done so to give this thing a shot with Melo one more time. The downside if it failed is we lose Grant and a serviceable big. Phil keeps his job because those moves did not work out, but we continue flexible moving forward.
Its a process. Every GM and franchise deals with this and these stretches. We need to build up this core and that should continue this offseason. If the goal was to win games you are right. Phil's moves have failed. However future assets remain intact so this just continues to be part of the purge.
Also Lee has been good and is a keeper. KOQ took a nice step forward this year. KP took a step forward. Willy has emerged as a promising young big.
People are so worried about holding Phil accountable. To what end? Whats the goal? He's made mistakes. He's made some good moves. I am mostly facinated with what we see when we hand this coach a younger team with no stars to cater to. I think then it gets interesting. While Melo is still here chasing his milestones its more of Dolan's Knicks. Hopefully we see what happens next with Phil. I am good with him getting his time and chances to make mistakes, so long as they dont set us back a decade as Isiah's did.
Just one Knick fan's 2c
Somehow phil and his 11 rings came with huge expectations. I get it.
With that, we just assume any alternative decision is "Better than the one he made" and thus we can call him out on each one.
We yelled about Greg Monroe too.
fishmike wrote:franco12 wrote:Noah, done for the season. He played 46 games this year, off a year he played 29. Age 31.how badly? Lopez is not having a good year. Grant has not had a good year. What was Lopez's future with the Knicks? Was he a building block cornerstone player? Was Grant? Lopez was a stop gap, traded to bring in more firepower for Melo.Jennings, released.
Rose, about to be cut.
Meanwhile, back in reality, Robin Lopez has started every game this year, after playing all 82 for us.
We essentially traded him for nothing and an injured player who should retire.
How do you mess up this badly? And keep your job?
The Rose/Jennings/Noah additions where done so to give this thing a shot with Melo one more time. The downside if it failed is we lose Grant and a serviceable big. Phil keeps his job because those moves did not work out, but we continue flexible moving forward.
Its a process. Every GM and franchise deals with this and these stretches. We need to build up this core and that should continue this offseason. If the goal was to win games you are right. Phil's moves have failed. However future assets remain intact so this just continues to be part of the purge.
Also Lee has been good and is a keeper. KOQ took a nice step forward this year. KP took a step forward. Willy has emerged as a promising young big.
People are so worried about holding Phil accountable. To what end? Whats the goal? He's made mistakes. He's made some good moves. I am mostly facinated with what we see when we hand this coach a younger team with no stars to cater to. I think then it gets interesting. While Melo is still here chasing his milestones its more of Dolan's Knicks. Hopefully we see what happens next with Phil. I am good with him getting his time and chances to make mistakes, so long as they dont set us back a decade as Isiah's did.
Just one Knick fan's 2c
I'm not calling for Phil's job. The alternative is disaster with a capital D.
But, just reflecting on Rose, Jennings - released. Noah down for the season - basically what, played a handful of games well? Yes there are positives. And yes GM's need time, and we were in a deep hole.
Robin Lopez was awesome. He was 10 & 7 every night. He was a plug - solid.
Did things maybe not fit with Lopez & KP? Do we have Willy? Yes, but then why sign Noah? Why not keep your cash.
Killa4luv wrote:there just was no logic or justification for signing Noah to so much money. It didn't make any sense at all.
Look at what some other guys got. He's better than some guys making the same money. He would have got it somewhere else, but it never got to that point. In general, i agree, it was an overpay, but it was a seller's market in free agency.
franco12 wrote:Noah, done for the season. He played 46 games this year, off a year he played 29. Age 31.Jennings, released.
Rose, about to be cut.
Meanwhile, back in reality, Robin Lopez has started every game this year, after playing all 82 for us.
We essentially traded him for nothing and an injured player who should retire.
How do you mess up this badly? And keep your job?
He took a shot trying to put something around Melo but at least the damage is minimal given Rose n BJ are expiring. Can't really get too upset given Melo wanted this. Phil gave Melo some vets to try and get to the playoffs with but it didn't work. Can't really fault Phil for trying.
The key to me is that Phil did leave himself an out with regard to Rose n BJ. CLee is fine and Noah can transition to a backup. Minimal damage overall.
Man up and see what's really going on
franco12 wrote:Lopez was solid... we had give something up. As for Noah thats pretty easy. They were trying to make the playoffs and needed a big. KOQ and Willy were much better than we thought. That is a positive but it has also made Noah's deal look worse than reality. We needed an NBA center, and Noah played much better than given credit for. Noah also had other offers.fishmike wrote:franco12 wrote:Noah, done for the season. He played 46 games this year, off a year he played 29. Age 31.how badly? Lopez is not having a good year. Grant has not had a good year. What was Lopez's future with the Knicks? Was he a building block cornerstone player? Was Grant? Lopez was a stop gap, traded to bring in more firepower for Melo.Jennings, released.
Rose, about to be cut.
Meanwhile, back in reality, Robin Lopez has started every game this year, after playing all 82 for us.
We essentially traded him for nothing and an injured player who should retire.
How do you mess up this badly? And keep your job?
The Rose/Jennings/Noah additions where done so to give this thing a shot with Melo one more time. The downside if it failed is we lose Grant and a serviceable big. Phil keeps his job because those moves did not work out, but we continue flexible moving forward.
Its a process. Every GM and franchise deals with this and these stretches. We need to build up this core and that should continue this offseason. If the goal was to win games you are right. Phil's moves have failed. However future assets remain intact so this just continues to be part of the purge.
Also Lee has been good and is a keeper. KOQ took a nice step forward this year. KP took a step forward. Willy has emerged as a promising young big.
People are so worried about holding Phil accountable. To what end? Whats the goal? He's made mistakes. He's made some good moves. I am mostly facinated with what we see when we hand this coach a younger team with no stars to cater to. I think then it gets interesting. While Melo is still here chasing his milestones its more of Dolan's Knicks. Hopefully we see what happens next with Phil. I am good with him getting his time and chances to make mistakes, so long as they dont set us back a decade as Isiah's did.
Just one Knick fan's 2c
I'm not calling for Phil's job. The alternative is disaster with a capital D.
But, just reflecting on Rose, Jennings - released. Noah down for the season - basically what, played a handful of games well? Yes there are positives. And yes GM's need time, and we were in a deep hole.
Robin Lopez was awesome. He was 10 & 7 every night. He was a plug - solid.
Did things maybe not fit with Lopez & KP? Do we have Willy? Yes, but then why sign Noah? Why not keep your cash.
Phil has made mistakes. Every GM makes em. The good ones dont pay for long and move on. If Phil used #1s, KP or other future assets to "get Melo back to the playoffs" we would just have another Isiah on our hands.
EnySpree wrote:He messed up trying to satisfy Melo with a win now approach....... but he didn't mortgage the future by doing so. Noah is the only bad contact, but to his defense he wanted him regardless for his leadership. Rose and Jennings are of the books after this year. Lee and Lance are on cap friendly deals. We have plenty of promising young players. We have all our future picks. We have cap space....Man up and see what's really going on
THIS!!!
franco12 wrote:fishmike wrote:franco12 wrote:Noah, done for the season. He played 46 games this year, off a year he played 29. Age 31.how badly? Lopez is not having a good year. Grant has not had a good year. What was Lopez's future with the Knicks? Was he a building block cornerstone player? Was Grant? Lopez was a stop gap, traded to bring in more firepower for Melo.Jennings, released.
Rose, about to be cut.
Meanwhile, back in reality, Robin Lopez has started every game this year, after playing all 82 for us.
We essentially traded him for nothing and an injured player who should retire.
How do you mess up this badly? And keep your job?
The Rose/Jennings/Noah additions where done so to give this thing a shot with Melo one more time. The downside if it failed is we lose Grant and a serviceable big. Phil keeps his job because those moves did not work out, but we continue flexible moving forward.
Its a process. Every GM and franchise deals with this and these stretches. We need to build up this core and that should continue this offseason. If the goal was to win games you are right. Phil's moves have failed. However future assets remain intact so this just continues to be part of the purge.
Also Lee has been good and is a keeper. KOQ took a nice step forward this year. KP took a step forward. Willy has emerged as a promising young big.
People are so worried about holding Phil accountable. To what end? Whats the goal? He's made mistakes. He's made some good moves. I am mostly facinated with what we see when we hand this coach a younger team with no stars to cater to. I think then it gets interesting. While Melo is still here chasing his milestones its more of Dolan's Knicks. Hopefully we see what happens next with Phil. I am good with him getting his time and chances to make mistakes, so long as they dont set us back a decade as Isiah's did.
Just one Knick fan's 2c
I'm not calling for Phil's job. The alternative is disaster with a capital D.
But, just reflecting on Rose, Jennings - released. Noah down for the season - basically what, played a handful of games well? Yes there are positives. And yes GM's need time, and we were in a deep hole.
Robin Lopez was awesome. He was 10 & 7 every night. He was a plug - solid.
Did things maybe not fit with Lopez & KP? Do we have Willy? Yes, but then why sign Noah? Why not keep your cash.
at 14-10 this team was showing a lot of promise. Thats a 47 win team that seemed to be improving. If Noah could play, he was passing and rebounding. He dunks in traffic, and he grabs a rebound and LEADS A FAST BREAK!!!
He does what few in the league can do.
Rose and Jennings were given limited Triangle duty and showed they could win.
So there was a vision. KOQ and Willy stepped up making RoPez expendible (in hindsight) and Noah in hindsight was also a mistake.
Hindsight. What a wonderful thing hindsight is to have! What was to be expected after last season? On the surface to fans not much different and it leaves us scratching our heads.
It got us CLee. It might have helped Willy. It might have helped Rose deal with being wacky. Rose has been a failure. Funny, we all thought it would be his health. His Knees.
His Mental health is a different story!!!!!
For all this disaster, only Noah's contract is the lasting disaster. Shyt happens. Rose had huge upside. He has been healthy. Remember when.........
Even Isola was cautiously optimistic........I said "Cautiously"!
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basket...
Greg Monroe says hello!
Nalod wrote:Jennings and Rose, short term audition. They were asked to run the system and can't.
Noah looked very good and is made for the system. if he has helped Willy, its worth it.
Oh wait, Willy joined in the summer of 2016.
And KOQ got it together in the summer of 2016.
And KP is progressoing nicely.
And he got Baker.
Ropez was the price. Holiday for grant was a wash.
Willy will be better then Ropez. What a great pick he was!!!!!!!How do you fire a guy for creating cap space while auditioning two very good talents?
and for the first time since eddie donovan was GM we have all our no. 1 picks going forward!!!
I agree. Add Kuz to the positive list. We have 3 picks this coming draft. I like our chances.
Nalod wrote:Jennings and Rose, short term audition. They were asked to run the system and can't.
Honestly, can you think of any PGs who would be well-suited to run the Triangle? It's not a system made for PGs and this is a PG driven league. Lebron is the lone exception as a point forward.
I maintain that we will struggle mightily and lose games we should win until we ditch the Triangle completely and fully embrace a new system. This year we had problems because they tried to half step between the triangle and Hornacek's offense, using pick and roll PGs.
crzymdups wrote:Nalod wrote:Jennings and Rose, short term audition. They were asked to run the system and can't.Honestly, can you think of any PGs who would be well-suited to run the Triangle? It's not a system made for PGs and this is a PG driven league. Lebron is the lone exception as a point forward.
I maintain that we will struggle mightily and lose games we should win until we ditch the Triangle completely and fully embrace a new system. This year we had problems because they tried to half step between the triangle and Hornacek's offense, using pick and roll PGs.
I actually think the blend is getting better. What really hurt was the neither Rose nor BJ can hit the 3 so that is a major disadvantage. Willy can pass out of the post so if you run Triangle he would fit well.
IMO a smart well rounded PG and an attacking SG is what is missing. Holiday and CLee don't seem to have any problems playing in the Triangle. The issue is Rose and BJ struggle with it. I actually think Lonzo Ball would have no problem with the Triangle. There are guards who have the right mental ability to run Triangle. I have to do some research on this draft and see which PG/SG's have the BBIQ we need.
nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:Nalod wrote:Jennings and Rose, short term audition. They were asked to run the system and can't.Honestly, can you think of any PGs who would be well-suited to run the Triangle? It's not a system made for PGs and this is a PG driven league. Lebron is the lone exception as a point forward.
I maintain that we will struggle mightily and lose games we should win until we ditch the Triangle completely and fully embrace a new system. This year we had problems because they tried to half step between the triangle and Hornacek's offense, using pick and roll PGs.
I actually think the blend is getting better. What really hurt was the neither Rose nor BJ can hit the 3 so that is a major disadvantage. Willy can pass out of the post so if you run Triangle he would fit well.
IMO a smart well rounded PG and an attacking SG is what is missing. Holiday and CLee don't seem to have any problems playing in the Triangle. The issue is Rose and BJ struggle with it. I actually think Lonzo Ball would have no problem with the Triangle. There are guards who have the right mental ability to run Triangle. I have to do some research on this draft and see which PG/SG's have the BBIQ we need.
They've abandoned the blend and gone back to installing the Triangle.
crzymdups wrote:nixluva wrote:crzymdups wrote:Nalod wrote:Jennings and Rose, short term audition. They were asked to run the system and can't.Honestly, can you think of any PGs who would be well-suited to run the Triangle? It's not a system made for PGs and this is a PG driven league. Lebron is the lone exception as a point forward.
I maintain that we will struggle mightily and lose games we should win until we ditch the Triangle completely and fully embrace a new system. This year we had problems because they tried to half step between the triangle and Hornacek's offense, using pick and roll PGs.
I actually think the blend is getting better. What really hurt was the neither Rose nor BJ can hit the 3 so that is a major disadvantage. Willy can pass out of the post so if you run Triangle he would fit well.
IMO a smart well rounded PG and an attacking SG is what is missing. Holiday and CLee don't seem to have any problems playing in the Triangle. The issue is Rose and BJ struggle with it. I actually think Lonzo Ball would have no problem with the Triangle. There are guards who have the right mental ability to run Triangle. I have to do some research on this draft and see which PG/SG's have the BBIQ we need.
They've abandoned the blend and gone back to installing the Triangle.
No they're still blending but with more of a base Triangle so that there's better execution and a deeper use of all the aspects of the Triangle Options. Hornacek still wants to keep a higher pace but with better structure and floor balance.
If we kept Rose and BJ I would want more Spread PnR. If they're gonna be gone and you can replace them with higher IQ guards that can defend then you should be able to run the Updated Triangle Hornacek wants to run.
Noah was a good player on paper money was bad and he came out of shape all season.
So yeah horrible offseason for himX
Let's see what he can do this summer it's a make or break season for him.