You can't build around Melo.
An article from last summer
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basket...
So Phil Jackson reached the correct conclusion after a recent meeting with an increasingly impatient Carmelo Anthony: As long as Anthony is here and All-Star capable, the 31-year-old’s career timeline should be placated. If not, what’s the point of paying him $124 million with a no-trade clause?“One of my questions to Carmelo was, you know, we haven’t made the playoffs and now this is three years, two years, since I’ve been here — are we moving quickly enough for you and your anticipation of trying to be into a competitive playoff situation?” Jackson said. “I think that was our conversation and established the fact of his desire, the idea that he is getting into an age where things have to happen for him. So we decided to activate ourselves.
This is Anthony’s responsibility now. His burden to win games. No more excuses or demands through the media. That was the implication Friday from Jackson, who reversed the roles after a year of Anthony publicly pleading that the team president be better at his job.
Jackson revealed Anthony asked for a point guard in their meeting, and how he, Jackson, quickly turned that request into Derrick Rose. Once the deal was completed, the Knicks were “activated,” to steal Jackson’s buzzword, into their win-now plan that aligns more with Anthony’s desires. Aside from the presence of Kristaps Porzingis — which should never be underestimated — it’s like the first two years under Jackson don’t exist. A waste of time and triangle seminars.”
Phil made some mistakes as well but the root of the problem is Melo
The mistake of Phil is to insist the traingle.
Does it make any difference, though? we have arrived at the same place- if he had decided to stick with rebuilding in the offseason we'd be looking at cap space and a high pick, and we're still looking at cap space and a high pick- only thing we've done is add about $4mil per year in salary (Noah is on $17mil, Lopez is on $13mil)
smackeddog wrote:Does it make any difference, though? we have arrived at the same place- if he had decided to stick with rebuilding in the offseason we'd be looking at cap space and a high pick, and we're still looking at cap space and a high pick- only thing we've done is add about $4mil per year in salary (Noah is on $17mil, Lopez is on $13mil)
But Lopez is younger and plays every game, Noah not so much.
I was upset when we traded Rolo for Rose and I still think it was a bad trade. I also think the emergence of Willy as the center of the future had mitigated the damage from that trace. Neither Rolo nor Noah are realistic future options.
smackeddog wrote:Does it make any difference, though? we have arrived at the same place- if he had decided to stick with rebuilding in the offseason we'd be looking at cap space and a high pick, and we're still looking at cap space and a high pick- only thing we've done is add about $4mil per year in salary (Noah is on $17mil, Lopez is on $13mil)
Which is where I give credit to Phil which many knock him for. He took his gambles without doing much damage to the prospects of rebuilding. That is very hard to do.
newyorknewyork wrote:smackeddog wrote:Does it make any difference, though? we have arrived at the same place- if he had decided to stick with rebuilding in the offseason we'd be looking at cap space and a high pick, and we're still looking at cap space and a high pick- only thing we've done is add about $4mil per year in salary (Noah is on $17mil, Lopez is on $13mil)
Which is where I give credit to Phil which many knock him for. He took his gambles without doing much damage to the prospects of rebuilding. That is very hard to do.
Credit??..We suck and is a borderline lottery team after three years..That requires skill these days???
stopstandthere wrote:The mistake of Phil is to insist the traingle.
This is a tired argument. The offensive sets aren't the reason why the team is losing. Enough already
meloshouldgo wrote:I was upset when we traded Rolo for Rose and I still think it was a bad trade. I also think the emergence of Willy as the center of the future had mitigated the damage from that trace. Neither Rolo nor Noah are realistic future options.
Phil tried to get Melo a point guard.... while at the same time not locking us into long term salary. He went out and got two of them in Rose and Jennings. It didn't work out for Melo because we're all losing, but the plan for the future is still in place. Gotta appreciate that foresight at least.
EnySpree wrote:stopstandthere wrote:The mistake of Phil is to insist the traingle.
This is a tired argument. The offensive sets aren't the reason why the team is losing. Enough already
Sure. Somehow it's tired to find reason to explain why this team is losing as well.
EnySpree wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:I was upset when we traded Rolo for Rose and I still think it was a bad trade. I also think the emergence of Willy as the center of the future had mitigated the damage from that trace. Neither Rolo nor Noah are realistic future options.
Phil tried to get Melo a point guard.... while at the same time not locking us into long term salary. He went out and got two of them in Rose and Jennings. It didn't work out for Melo because we're all losing, but the plan for the future is still in place. Gotta appreciate that foresight at least.
This is why I am pretty soft on Phil while others are out with the pitchforks. In the past it has always been one plan, pass or fail. However instead of buying at the deadline (and selling picks probably) Phil has stood put, run young guys out there and take a step back. So while this roster built around Melo has been a clumsy failure can something positive come out of it? Well yes.. we get a nice look at Randle, Baker, Willy and maybe someone else for 20+ games. So the wins wont impress anyone and neither will tanking this CAN be part of the process down the road.
What will REALLY piss off Phil ax grinders is if Willy wins ROY and he's got a real shot. He's close to a double double most nights and could have some big scoring games. Fingers crossed
holfresh wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:smackeddog wrote:Does it make any difference, though? we have arrived at the same place- if he had decided to stick with rebuilding in the offseason we'd be looking at cap space and a high pick, and we're still looking at cap space and a high pick- only thing we've done is add about $4mil per year in salary (Noah is on $17mil, Lopez is on $13mil)
Which is where I give credit to Phil which many knock him for. He took his gambles without doing much damage to the prospects of rebuilding. That is very hard to do.
Credit??..We suck and is a borderline lottery team after three years..That requires skill these days???
You're purposefully ignoring the full story just to try and make your point seem more salient. You can talk about the W/L record but that's not the entire story and you know it. behind all of the win now moves Phil has in fact been continually working to try and provide a future for the franchise. He's kept cap flexibility and there is at least some value to the guys like KOQ, CLee and LT in terms of possible trades. This is not a horrible situation despite what the record might make you think.
It's very clear now what this team needs and what doesn't work. The Lottery is very much an important factor this year since we do have our pick for only the 2nd time in Phil's tenure. The Free Agent moves haven't worked to produce wins but the secondary plan of rebuilding is still very much underway.
fishmike wrote:EnySpree wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:I was upset when we traded Rolo for Rose and I still think it was a bad trade. I also think the emergence of Willy as the center of the future had mitigated the damage from that trace. Neither Rolo nor Noah are realistic future options.
Phil tried to get Melo a point guard.... while at the same time not locking us into long term salary. He went out and got two of them in Rose and Jennings. It didn't work out for Melo because we're all losing, but the plan for the future is still in place. Gotta appreciate that foresight at least.
This is why I am pretty soft on Phil while others are out with the pitchforks. In the past it has always been one plan, pass or fail. However instead of buying at the deadline (and selling picks probably) Phil has stood put, run young guys out there and take a step back. So while this roster built around Melo has been a clumsy failure can something positive come out of it? Well yes.. we get a nice look at Randle, Baker, Willy and maybe someone else for 20+ games. So the wins wont impress anyone and neither will tanking this CAN be part of the process down the road.What will REALLY piss off Phil ax grinders is if Willy wins ROY and he's got a real shot. He's close to a double double most nights and could have some big scoring games. Fingers crossed
This makes no sense to me. Are you suggesting that Knick fans don't want Knick players to be good because it will be a credential for Phil? Can't think Phil has done a ridiculously awful job overall and still root for the guys on the team to do well?
holfresh wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:smackeddog wrote:Does it make any difference, though? we have arrived at the same place- if he had decided to stick with rebuilding in the offseason we'd be looking at cap space and a high pick, and we're still looking at cap space and a high pick- only thing we've done is add about $4mil per year in salary (Noah is on $17mil, Lopez is on $13mil)
Which is where I give credit to Phil which many knock him for. He took his gambles without doing much damage to the prospects of rebuilding. That is very hard to do.
Credit??..We suck and is a borderline lottery team after three years..That requires skill these days???
We could suck with no draft picks and be stuck in cap hell trying to find ways to be a playoff team. Remember thoooose days?
Minnesota Timberwolves traded Love for Wiggins after Love made it clear he wanted out in a move most people agreed with when it comes to Minny. They then won the lottery and drafted Towns which again was a logical choice. They then landed the biggest Free Agent coach out there in TT who has a winning track record. And all these logical decisions have resulted in a sorry season this year for the Wolves.
Its hard to win in this league.
newyorknewyork wrote:holfresh wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:smackeddog wrote:Does it make any difference, though? we have arrived at the same place- if he had decided to stick with rebuilding in the offseason we'd be looking at cap space and a high pick, and we're still looking at cap space and a high pick- only thing we've done is add about $4mil per year in salary (Noah is on $17mil, Lopez is on $13mil)
Which is where I give credit to Phil which many knock him for. He took his gambles without doing much damage to the prospects of rebuilding. That is very hard to do.
Credit??..We suck and is a borderline lottery team after three years..That requires skill these days???
We could suck with no draft picks and be stuck in cap hell trying to find ways to be a playoff team. Remember thoooose days?
Minnesota Timberwolves traded Love for Wiggins after Love made it clear he wanted out in a move most people agreed with when it comes to Minny. They then won the lottery and drafted Towns which again was a logical choice. They then landed the biggest Free Agent coach out there in TT who has a winning track record. And all these logical decisions have resulted in a sorry season this year for the Wolves.
Its hard to win in this league.
Yeah but the first 1st round draft pick Phil could trade is the 2018 pick that almost got moved for Lowry. So the keeping the picks is true but the league wouldn't allow the Knicks to trade this pick or the 2015 pick.
stopstandthere wrote:The mistake of Phil is to insist the traingle.
We barely ran the Triangle this year
Actually running the Triangle has shown to help defensive balance
Mistake was getting point guards who don't play winning basketball
Rose is a complete lateral move. He neither helped or hurt the team. He literally adds almost zero wins moving from one team to another.
holfresh wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:smackeddog wrote:Does it make any difference, though? we have arrived at the same place- if he had decided to stick with rebuilding in the offseason we'd be looking at cap space and a high pick, and we're still looking at cap space and a high pick- only thing we've done is add about $4mil per year in salary (Noah is on $17mil, Lopez is on $13mil)
Which is where I give credit to Phil which many knock him for. He took his gambles without doing much damage to the prospects of rebuilding. That is very hard to do.
Credit??..We suck and is a borderline lottery team after three years..That requires skill these days???
I see that you want you favorite team to win now... but Knicks cannot win now and for another 2-3 years for sure.
Are you sure you are in correct place or state of mind? It can be dangerous for your mental helth... 
arkrud wrote:holfresh wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:smackeddog wrote:Does it make any difference, though? we have arrived at the same place- if he had decided to stick with rebuilding in the offseason we'd be looking at cap space and a high pick, and we're still looking at cap space and a high pick- only thing we've done is add about $4mil per year in salary (Noah is on $17mil, Lopez is on $13mil)
Which is where I give credit to Phil which many knock him for. He took his gambles without doing much damage to the prospects of rebuilding. That is very hard to do.
Credit??..We suck and is a borderline lottery team after three years..That requires skill these days???
I see that you want you favorite team to win now... but Knicks cannot win now and for another 2-3 years for sure.
Are you sure you are in correct place or state of mind? It can be dangerous for your mental helth...
I think the expectation was after three years the team might get back to the pinnacle of 37 wins that the dysfunctional team hit the year before Phil came in to fix things.
nyknickzingis wrote:stopstandthere wrote:The mistake of Phil is to insist the traingle.
We barely ran the Triangle this year
Actually running the Triangle has shown to help defensive balance Mistake was getting point guards who don't play winning basketball
Rose is a complete lateral move. He neither helped or hurt the team. He literally adds almost zero wins moving from one team to another.
Yea with a Melo centric team you need a really good, I mean really good, cerebral, hall of
Fame caliber PG running the show.
Like let's say Jason Kidd
gunsnewing wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:stopstandthere wrote:The mistake of Phil is to insist the traingle.
We barely ran the Triangle this year
Actually running the Triangle has shown to help defensive balance Mistake was getting point guards who don't play winning basketball
Rose is a complete lateral move. He neither helped or hurt the team. He literally adds almost zero wins moving from one team to another.
Yea with a Melo centric team you need a really good, I mean really good, cerebral, hall of
Fame caliber PG running the show.
Like let's say Jason Kidd
except Kidd wasn't a really good, really good... player by then he was just a good role player for the first two months and then turned into one of the worst shooting guards in the league. Age unfortunately caught up with him. He was still smart though.
