newyorker4ever wrote:Uptown wrote:I thought Rambis was the defensive coordinator? SMH.
Well he does know the triangle better than any other coach on the team so he should be having his say during practice.
So if Rambis os coaching the triangle at this point, and he's also the defensive coach, what is Hornaceks role? In the end, this is phil switching plans again. He should have just hired Rambis
Just so we're all clear about KP and the Triangle:
According to one player, the Knicks played the triangle exceptionally well in gaining a 17-point lead on Oklahoma City in the second quarter. But when the Thunder started taking away some of those actions, the Knicks couldn’t counteract. Hence, Hornacek deviated at halftime to more of their standard “early offense.” The club just hasn’t mastered the triangles’s nuances.“We don’t really know it as well as we did last year,’’ Porzingis admitted. “We played it the whole time. We knew it much better than this year. For the triangle to really work, everybody needs to be on the same page and know how to play it. I think we have a lot of places to grow as a team that plays triangle. I love the triangle. It’s a great offense if you execute it well. We’ve been going back and forth playing both.’’
http://nypost.com/2017/02/18/kristaps-po..."Everybody wants to see me play better in the post," Porzingis said. "That's one thing that's going to help us in the triangle. So I'm adding moves to my post game, I'm really working on staying low, I'm working on my strength overall, especially my legs. That's going to help me defensively as well."
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/krista...Except for Rose MOST of this roster is well suited to the Triangle. Having that as the base offense and mixing in some other Hornacek things is fine for this team. If Phil continues to build toward the Triangle with players that actually have the BBIQ and Skills there should be no problem. They've got to learn how to adjust to when teams overplay the pass which is the next level of Triangle that our players have yet to get to. When the Defense gets aggressive there are responses to that but our players aren't yet there.
Uptown wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:Uptown wrote:I thought Rambis was the defensive coordinator? SMH.
Well he does know the triangle better than any other coach on the team so he should be having his say during practice.
So if Rambis os coaching the triangle at this point, and he's also the defensive coach, what is Hornaceks role? In the end, this is phil switching plans again. He should have just hired Rambis
This. Also, the Knicks would have a top 3 pick and Melo would have waived his ntc.
Wait just a while ago everyone was saying that offense is not the problem but now that Phil is incorporating more triangle the offense was the problem. sometimes I wonder if phil said the sky was purple I wonder how many here would believe him.
yellowboy90 wrote:Wait just a while ago everyone was saying that offense is not the problem but now that Phil is incorporating more triangle the offense was the problem. sometimes I wonder if phil said the sky was purple I wonder how many here would believe him.
The defense is clearly worse than the offense but there is a lot of room for improvement offensively.
The focus is being hyped by the media. For all we know the Knicks have been focusing on D in practice but that's not the juicy story. They know mentioning the Triangle is a topic of controversy for this team.
holfresh wrote:Knixkik wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but porzingis and Willy are probably the ideal pf/c combination for the triangle. Also, Ntilikina seems like the ideal phil/triangle pg. He seems to check off all the boxes phil likes. And I do have confidence in Hornacek's ability to develop guards regardless of the system. Point is, it doesn't matter what system we run as long as we get better players that make sense for what they are trying to do. Seems like phil's young players fit a modernized triangle type system.
Since you asked to be corrected..Porzingus and Calderon asked Fisher to run more PnR last year and he did..They might have been responsible for Fisher losing his job..So KP may not feel he is so ideal running the triangle..
A couple of things; KP has said several times that he enjoys playing in the triangle. So his quotes contradict any theory that he doesn't like it. Also, just because the team is running the triangle, i don't think that means no pick and roll play whatsoever. I have to think it will be incorporated from time to time.
I seem to remember how the veterans(Lee in general) said practicing against the triangle hurt the defense. Oh triangle you continue to suck.
Honestly, if I am Hornechek I say forget this and do my own thing. It is highly unlikely that Phil would fire him. Although, I bet he would get some mean tweets and articles by Ding and ROsen if he did his own thing.
HofstraBBall wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:Phil did what he set out to do. He hired a coach and build a team that allowed Melo to compete in his fast closing window. Melo himself said he was happy with Hornacek and Rose signings. The other vets were solid as well except Noah. The team showed why you can't win with Melo and Melo showed why he can't lead. Phil delivrred Melo what everyone considered a potential playoff team at the start of the season. Melo delivered the unmitigated disaster that we have come to expect of him. Now we are moving on, hopefully we focus on young players and stop starfukking for good. Melo can rot on the bench or he can go jump.
Who exactly did he bring over, that you think was a solid NBA player, other than Lee? Please leave out guys that were thought of as at bottom of their careers or coming off bad years with injuries.
And BTW, Lin sucks.
I have no idea how Lin figures into a discussion about Phil. Then again you are just dumping on Phil so I don't really expect anything logical from you. But the fact remains Melo himself expressed satisfaction with the coach and the team at the start of the season. It's not Phil's fault that Melo just isn't a top caliber player and his monumentous career achievement is a second round playoff exit.
Totally agree about Lin not being a part of discussion. Same point I was trying to make when you bring Melo into every discussion. We are talking about the merits or lack there of, for Phil.
3 restarts in 3 years.
Insistence on antiquated system "No One" else uses.
Signing a parenial injury prone player who was in decline to 4 year 17m deal.
Trading a decent Role playing Center for a guy on with one year deal that obviously does not fit his "Criteria" for evaluating players.(Triangle)
How many of his draft picks from first 2 years still in league?
Not being able to salvage any return from multiple assets.
Failing to change perception of inept franchise. Has made it worse in eyes of NBA players.
Three years of negative working relationships with players and coaches. No communication.
Buy yes. Gaines picked KP, so everything else is forgiven.
Totally disagree about your stretch. Lin and Phil NEVER even overlapped. Melo was being held accountable for what he has done, and no you can't talk about Phil without apportioning blame to Melo, as much as you would like to.
First year doesn't even count simply because of garbage inherited - Second year we still had leftover garbage like Bargs and Prigioni. So only one restart
It maybe antiquated but he is a systems person and when we hired him that was going to be what he brings, if you don't like it don't hire him
Never said Noah signing was good, it was his second biggest blooper after the NTC
Somehow you managed to leave out that he first acquired that same decent role playing center didn't you?
How many second rounders stick around for 3 years on average? He had 1 first round pick, what else?
Assets LOL
I am sorry but a couple of Melo's buddies tweeting about him does not equate to ALL NBA players, they'll come here for the money same as before
Nope. He only negative is Melo, no one else has actually complained about Phil (Well Fisher after he got canned, but he got canned, so wasn't expecting praise)
Did Melo say at the start of the season that he was happy with the team and coach or not? But of course you won't answer that.
HofstraBBall wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:I asked in a different thread what impact players were available via trade or FA that had any interest in coming here and playing with Melo? And i couldn't come up with any either.
Not being smart, this time, but do you watch a lot of NBA coverage? You do know there is a bad connotation with the Triangle, NY as a franchise (Dolan), the fan base expecting a chip or they will boo you faster than a 14 year old kid at draft night? You also know that most NBA players know that Melo gets a bad rap and is crazy for wanting to be here?
Aww here we go again poor little misunderstood Melo. Negative connotations? People still signed with the fukking Clippers didn't they? If Melo gets such a bad rap, maybe he should take a hint?
yellowboy90 wrote:I seem to remember how the veterans(Lee in general) said practicing against the triangle hurt the defense. Oh triangle you continue to suck.
Honestly, if I am Hornechek I say forget this and do my own thing. It is highly unlikely that Phil would fire him. Although, I bet he would get some mean tweets and articles by Ding and ROsen if he did his own thing.
Jeff is a grown man. If he was unhappy he could quit. I don't think he's bothered by this. The media is just trying to stir up trouble. As I posted above quotes from KP saying he likes the Triangle so I suggest you read that.
Too much made about offense
We need to find a way to play that suits the team on both ends
The way the team played under Horny's initial offense they just made too many defensive mistakes and couldn't keep pace defensively. On O they were fine when ball moved. D? No.
If they find an offense that allows Noah/Willy at 5, KP/Melo at 4, Melo/Lance at 3 to work, we just gotta roll with it because otherwise it won't be like we can move KP to 5 or abandon two young players like Willy and KP as a 5-4 so early in their development. Melo also has a NTC so he may stay another year until he can opt out for more guaranteed money.
Have some faith Phil is also the one that drafted Willy and KP to play together - he knows their talent and what may work
meloshouldgo wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:Phil did what he set out to do. He hired a coach and build a team that allowed Melo to compete in his fast closing window. Melo himself said he was happy with Hornacek and Rose signings. The other vets were solid as well except Noah. The team showed why you can't win with Melo and Melo showed why he can't lead. Phil delivrred Melo what everyone considered a potential playoff team at the start of the season. Melo delivered the unmitigated disaster that we have come to expect of him. Now we are moving on, hopefully we focus on young players and stop starfukking for good. Melo can rot on the bench or he can go jump.
Who exactly did he bring over, that you think was a solid NBA player, other than Lee? Please leave out guys that were thought of as at bottom of their careers or coming off bad years with injuries.
And BTW, Lin sucks.
I have no idea how Lin figures into a discussion about Phil. Then again you are just dumping on Phil so I don't really expect anything logical from you. But the fact remains Melo himself expressed satisfaction with the coach and the team at the start of the season. It's not Phil's fault that Melo just isn't a top caliber player and his monumentous career achievement is a second round playoff exit.
Totally agree about Lin not being a part of discussion. Same point I was trying to make when you bring Melo into every discussion. We are talking about the merits or lack there of, for Phil.
3 restarts in 3 years.
Insistence on antiquated system "No One" else uses.
Signing a parenial injury prone player who was in decline to 4 year 17m deal.
Trading a decent Role playing Center for a guy on with one year deal that obviously does not fit his "Criteria" for evaluating players.(Triangle)
How many of his draft picks from first 2 years still in league?
Not being able to salvage any return from multiple assets.
Failing to change perception of inept franchise. Has made it worse in eyes of NBA players.
Three years of negative working relationships with players and coaches. No communication.
Buy yes. Gaines picked KP, so everything else is forgiven.
Totally disagree about your stretch. Lin and Phil NEVER even overlapped. Melo was being held accountable for what he has done, and no you can't talk about Phil without apportioning blame to Melo, as much as you would like to.
First year doesn't even count simply because of garbage inherited - Second year we still had leftover garbage like Bargs and Prigioni. So only one restart
It maybe antiquated but he is a systems person and when we hired him that was going to be what he brings, if you don't like it don't hire him
Never said Noah signing was good, it was his second biggest blooper after the NTC
Somehow you managed to leave out that he first acquired that same decent role playing center didn't you?
How many second rounders stick around for 3 years on average? He had 1 first round pick, what else?
Assets LOL
I am sorry but a couple of Melo's buddies tweeting about him does not equate to ALL NBA players, they'll come here for the money same as before
Nope. He only negative is Melo, no one else has actually complained about Phil (Well Fisher after he got canned, but he got canned, so wasn't expecting praise)
Did Melo say at the start of the season that he was happy with the team and coach or not? But of course you won't answer that.
He brought in 11 new players his first year to a 15 man roster. Seven of them were on the opening day roster. And yes he brought in some garbage that he thought would help make the Knicks contend for the playoffs. He has brought in 30 new players in 3 years.
nixluva wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:I seem to remember how the veterans(Lee in general) said practicing against the triangle hurt the defense. Oh triangle you continue to suck.
Honestly, if I am Hornechek I say forget this and do my own thing. It is highly unlikely that Phil would fire him. Although, I bet he would get some mean tweets and articles by Ding and ROsen if he did his own thing.
Jeff is a grown man. If he was unhappy he could quit. I don't think he's bothered by this. The media is just trying to stir up trouble. As I posted above quotes from KP saying he likes the Triangle so I suggest you read that.
So why did Jeff move away from the triangle in the first place?
holfresh wrote:nixluva wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:I seem to remember how the veterans(Lee in general) said practicing against the triangle hurt the defense. Oh triangle you continue to suck.
Honestly, if I am Hornechek I say forget this and do my own thing. It is highly unlikely that Phil would fire him. Although, I bet he would get some mean tweets and articles by Ding and ROsen if he did his own thing.
Jeff is a grown man. If he was unhappy he could quit. I don't think he's bothered by this. The media is just trying to stir up trouble. As I posted above quotes from KP saying he likes the Triangle so I suggest you read that.
So why did Jeff move away from the triangle in the first place?
Probably to fit rose and jennings. Now Jennings is gone and rose doesn't figure to be part of the future. Baker is left and seems to fit the triangle.
Do you guys understand how highly unusual/abnormal this is??..And the blind support no matter where the win blows..
holfresh wrote:Do you guys understand how highly unusual/abnormal this is??..And the blind support no matter where the win blows..
Neither Brandon Jennings or DRose have been winning or playing winning basketball anywhere the last few seasons. Phil took a few 1 year risks to give Melo a chance with a coach who ran more variety than the Triangle.
It didn't work out and it sucks but let's all stop acting like we passed up on a superstar here or that this team with Rose and Jennings playing pick and roll non-stop ends up in the playoffs.
nyknickzingis wrote:holfresh wrote:Do you guys understand how highly unusual/abnormal this is??..And the blind support no matter where the win blows..
Neither Brandon Jennings or DRose have been winning or playing winning basketball anywhere the last few seasons. Phil took a few 1 year risks to give Melo a chance with a coach who ran more variety than the Triangle.It didn't work out and it sucks but let's all stop acting like we passed up on a superstar here or that this team with Rose and Jennings playing pick and roll non-stop ends up in the playoffs.
Sigh... I'm glad I'm not alone here.
nyknickzingis wrote:holfresh wrote:Do you guys understand how highly unusual/abnormal this is??..And the blind support no matter where the win blows..
Neither Brandon Jennings or DRose have been winning or playing winning basketball anywhere the last few seasons. Phil took a few 1 year risks to give Melo a chance with a coach who ran more variety than the Triangle.It didn't work out and it sucks but let's all stop acting like we passed up on a superstar here or that this team with Rose and Jennings playing pick and roll non-stop ends up in the playoffs.
As i've repeatedly pointed out, the entire roster that is left is Triangle Capable except for Rose. Rose mainly because he's refused to even try to learn how to play in the Triangle. Other than Rose, Melo, KP, Willy, CLee, LT, Holiday, Baker, Kuz, KOQ, Randle, Sasha all can play in the Triangle just fine. They need to learn more of the nuances and counters in the system but they have the ability and have been running it fine whenever they actually ran it. It only made sense to move away from the Triangle a lot more when Rose and BJ were at the point.
Even in the games where they went Spread PnR most of the time they still ran some Triangle. Now they're flipping things the other way and if Phil chooses to go back to bringing in players that fit the Triangle and Horny and his staff agree it made sense that's what we are seeing.
Knixkik wrote:holfresh wrote:nixluva wrote:yellowboy90 wrote:I seem to remember how the veterans(Lee in general) said practicing against the triangle hurt the defense. Oh triangle you continue to suck.
Honestly, if I am Hornechek I say forget this and do my own thing. It is highly unlikely that Phil would fire him. Although, I bet he would get some mean tweets and articles by Ding and ROsen if he did his own thing.
Jeff is a grown man. If he was unhappy he could quit. I don't think he's bothered by this. The media is just trying to stir up trouble. As I posted above quotes from KP saying he likes the Triangle so I suggest you read that.
So why did Jeff move away from the triangle in the first place?
Probably to fit rose and jennings. Now Jennings is gone and rose doesn't figure to be part of the future. Baker is left and seems to fit the triangle.
If Baker is our best suited guard to run the offense, we're definitely getting a top three pick next year.
nyknickzingis wrote:holfresh wrote:Do you guys understand how highly unusual/abnormal this is??..And the blind support no matter where the win blows..
Neither Brandon Jennings or DRose have been winning or playing winning basketball anywhere the last few seasons. Phil took a few 1 year risks to give Melo a chance with a coach who ran more variety than the Triangle.It didn't work out and it sucks but let's all stop acting like we passed up on a superstar here or that this team with Rose and Jennings playing pick and roll non-stop ends up in the playoffs.
So you think Phil purposely brought in terrible players to give the appearance of him helping but really he just wanted to set the team up to fail.
nixluva wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:holfresh wrote:Do you guys understand how highly unusual/abnormal this is??..And the blind support no matter where the win blows..
Neither Brandon Jennings or DRose have been winning or playing winning basketball anywhere the last few seasons. Phil took a few 1 year risks to give Melo a chance with a coach who ran more variety than the Triangle.It didn't work out and it sucks but let's all stop acting like we passed up on a superstar here or that this team with Rose and Jennings playing pick and roll non-stop ends up in the playoffs.
As i've repeatedly pointed out, the entire roster that is left is Triangle Capable except for Rose. Rose mainly because he's refused to even try to learn how to play in the Triangle. Other than Rose, Melo, KP, Willy, CLee, LT, Holiday, Baker, Kuz, KOQ, Randle, Sasha all can play in the Triangle just fine. They need to learn more of the nuances and counters in the system but they have the ability and have been running it fine whenever they actually ran it. It only made sense to move away from the Triangle a lot more when Rose and BJ were at the point. Even in the games where they went Spread PnR most of the time they still ran some Triangle. Now they're flipping things the other way and if Phil chooses to go back to bringing in players that fit the Triangle and Horny and his staff agree it made sense that's what we are seeing.
So Hornacek looked at what we're seeing and decided he should coach the team less on offense and defense in practice? Doesn't seem like a great sign.
