In the league.
Yet Phil is awful for wanting him to change his game or get traded?
This is why I want Melo gone.
Doesn't matter what the score is.
Doesn't matter who is on.
Melo will play like Melo in NY.
He sees this as his city, his franchise to lead and his time.
And the fact that we've lost so many close games this season, it could be the difference in a team being 31-31 right now and what we are. If Melo were a more consistent player in the 4th quarter, we would close games better.
Again, the stat was brought up. Melo is one of the worst FG% scorers in the 4th Q.
NY media ignores this about Melo. He's a major problem for the franchise. With the way he plays, he has close games well. He doesn't based on the statistics on his shooting percentage. Not too many teams win in this league at a high rate if their star player is a bottom 5 shooter in the closing quarter. Think about what DeRozan did in that Toronto game. As good as Melo's scoring skill is, we need a closer in the fourth quarter who will take the ball out of Melo's hands and be the alpha in that situation. I'm a big KP fan, but that isn't him. If we keep Melo, we must get that player.
But from the tank perspective, thanks Melo. Thank you for being you in the 4th quarter and having one of your typical "I'm cold, but I'll still shoot the most shots, take the most isolations and hold the ball the longest games".
Phil is absolutely right in wanting this guy traded. I've seen this guy play for almost 7 years now. I've had enough. I wasn't aware of that statistic until tonight. Melo is one of the worst FG shooters in the league in the 4th Quarter. Ask yourself how many games have we lost by a few points or a possession. Melo's lack of ability to close games strong as the star of the team is a huge problem.
We need to either trade Melo or get him to play a secondary role (which he will never do in NY, in my opinion).
I really wanted Melo to waive his NTC, but once he didn't, I pretty much gave up on the idea of drafting another STUD for our future. Then again playing Melo might actually work opposite of how I thought it would work. This team still have the ability to win a few too many of these games down the stretch, but it's also not too late for Phil to call down to Horny and tell him it's time to cut the minutes of the vets and play the kids more. It's time to TANK. I hope this happens cuz the worst thing is to be in between and win meaningless games but fail to make the playoffs.
I think his ineptitude in the 4th is due to minutes played. He plays 34mn per game but he's not 25 anymore. He hasn't got the legs at the end of games. He had several very hot shooting first and second quarters this year.
Well I'd rather they stay the course this season, so that we could draft a better pick but next year. Next year if he's back he should be playing no more 28, 29 mn per game at the 4. Just harness his effectiveness and stick him to the bench when he's cold. In this kind of role, I still think Melo could be an asset to the team.
nyknickzingis wrote:In the league.Yet Phil is awful for wanting him to change his game or get traded?
This is why I want Melo gone.
Doesn't matter what the score is.
Doesn't matter who is on.
Melo will play like Melo in NY.
He sees this as his city, his franchise to lead and his time.
And the fact that we've lost so many close games this season, it could be the difference in a team being 31-31 right now and what we are. If Melo were a more consistent player in the 4th quarter, we would close games better.
Again, the stat was brought up. Melo is one of the worst FG% scorers in the 4th Q.
NY media ignores this about Melo. He's a major problem for the franchise. With the way he plays, he has close games well. He doesn't based on the statistics on his shooting percentage. Not too many teams win in this league at a high rate if their star player is a bottom 5 shooter in the closing quarter. Think about what DeRozan did in that Toronto game. As good as Melo's scoring skill is, we need a closer in the fourth quarter who will take the ball out of Melo's hands and be the alpha in that situation. I'm a big KP fan, but that isn't him. If we keep Melo, we must get that player.
What exactly does that say about the coaching staff.
In that same Toronto game, after a time out, instead of putting Holiday and Lee in the back court in the final seconds up 1, they left rose out there, Toronto ran a screen knowing the knicks would switch, he got the 4 inches shorter rose on him and hit a jumper right over his out stretch hands.
Nobody said you have to go to melo or rose
smackeddog wrote:I thank him for the tank
Yeah, the team is -4.9 points per 48 min with him on the court and +0.9 with him off it. Earlier in the season, I was giving the benefit of the doubt by saying that the numbers might not hold up as the sample increases. But they've actually gotten worse throughout the season.
knicks1248 wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:In the league.Yet Phil is awful for wanting him to change his game or get traded?
This is why I want Melo gone.
Doesn't matter what the score is.
Doesn't matter who is on.
Melo will play like Melo in NY.
He sees this as his city, his franchise to lead and his time.
And the fact that we've lost so many close games this season, it could be the difference in a team being 31-31 right now and what we are. If Melo were a more consistent player in the 4th quarter, we would close games better.
Again, the stat was brought up. Melo is one of the worst FG% scorers in the 4th Q.
NY media ignores this about Melo. He's a major problem for the franchise. With the way he plays, he has close games well. He doesn't based on the statistics on his shooting percentage. Not too many teams win in this league at a high rate if their star player is a bottom 5 shooter in the closing quarter. Think about what DeRozan did in that Toronto game. As good as Melo's scoring skill is, we need a closer in the fourth quarter who will take the ball out of Melo's hands and be the alpha in that situation. I'm a big KP fan, but that isn't him. If we keep Melo, we must get that player.
What exactly does that say about the coaching staff.
In that same Toronto game, after a time out, instead of putting Holiday and Lee in the back court in the final seconds up 1, they left rose out there, Toronto ran a screen knowing the knicks would switch, he got the 4 inches shorter rose on him and hit a jumper right over his out stretch hands.
Nobody said you have to go to melo or rose
Horny could've made the switch tho lots of coaches leave their stars in the game in those situations. Maybe Lee or Holiday makes the shot tougher but DeRozan gets his shot off on just about everyone. It's the height he gets on his jumps. This is why we hope to draft our own STUD SF/SG who can do special things. 
This isn't a minutes issue. Some guys are clutch even when old (e.g. Pierce) and some guys think it's a good idea to force up a contested shot on a cold shooting night a game after missing a wide open one
We're stuck w him fellas. I'll hope we can dump him in the offseason but it'll be tough to do
If he were a FA this summer he'd get 15 mill or so. Who can w expect to give 20-25 mill in assets back
If our coach had any onions he would sit Melo more in the 4th. His poor shooting is compounded by his poor D
If he's on fire a given game maybe u play him. When he's already cold it's foolish to think he'll heat it up w game on the line.
Worst case we get to see how our other guys can handle pressure
Phil needs to tell Melo he'll be the 6th man next year and they're rebuilding. He should cut Rose now.
But the awfulness of Phil has only partially to do with how he's handled the Melo situation. It cannot be stated enough that the situation we're in now with Melo's contract was 100% Phil's choice.
crzymdups wrote:Phil needs to tell Melo he'll be the 6th man next year and they're rebuilding. He should cut Rose now. But the awfulness of Phil has only partially to do with how he's handled the Melo situation. It cannot be stated enough that the situation we're in now with Melo's contract was 100% Phil's choice.
It was his choice, but it's clear we would have lost him without the NTC. For what it's worth, Phil did not want his first move in NY to be letting Melo walk for nothing.
Phil was guilty of optimism and ego. And I don't blame him. Melo was our best opportunity to start a winning program. Melo gave every sign he was hungry for that kind of success and two years ago who else could you build around that you had any hope of getting (putting aside the wrinkle that melo could just walk). It's water under the bridge at this point.
We should not re-sign rose. If there's any hope of a sign and trade we should keep him. Otherwise think hard about cutting him back or cutting him off now so we can see more baker and even randle (side benefit is better draft position)
Knixkik wrote:crzymdups wrote:Phil needs to tell Melo he'll be the 6th man next year and they're rebuilding. He should cut Rose now. But the awfulness of Phil has only partially to do with how he's handled the Melo situation. It cannot be stated enough that the situation we're in now with Melo's contract was 100% Phil's choice.
It was his choice, but it's clear we would have lost him without the NTC. For what it's worth, Phil did not want his first move in NY to be letting Melo walk for nothing.
I have never heard anything about losing Melo without the ntc. Players don't get them. He was paid 35 mil more than he could get any place else. I always wondered if the ntc was negotiated because Melo took less (5 mil) than a full max deal.
crazymdps wrote:Phil needs to tell Melo he'll be the 6th man next year and they're rebuilding. He should cut Rose now.
But the awfulness of Phil has only partially to do with how he's handled the Melo situation. It cannot be stated enough that the situation we're in now with Melo's contract was 100% Phil's choice.
I appreciate you at least see that moving Melo to the 4 does not change who he is
This is not Triangle
Bad coaching
Bad talent around Melo
This is Melo being who he has been.
As he's getting older the gas tank is getting emptier.
In his prime he could play this way and have strong finishes in the 4th. I don't have the stats but I'm sure he was a better FG percentage closer from 2005-2012. He just is not the same player.
Phil has screwed up. Noah contract is all on him. NTC was a bad move. His tweets are uncalled for.
But Melo is a problem. NY media views him as some great player or scorer that helps us, he is a problem. If he played like Dad Melo we would be better. If he let the game come to him in the 4th and took good shots, not worried about trying to take over, again we would be better.
Is that -4.9 stat real?
So with Melo we are -4.9 and also with him in the 4th we have the 5th worst fourth quarter shooter? Unreal. Makes me so sad as a Knicks fan.
This team with a better smarter Melo is a playoff team. Maybe only a 7th seed but still a playoff team. I guess the tanking POV it's good Melo is playing so dumb. He has so much talent. Why does he not understand his career is winding down, time to play smart veteran basketball.
nyknickzingis wrote:crazymdps wrote:Phil needs to tell Melo he'll be the 6th man next year and they're rebuilding. He should cut Rose now.
But the awfulness of Phil has only partially to do with how he's handled the Melo situation. It cannot be stated enough that the situation we're in now with Melo's contract was 100% Phil's choice.
I appreciate you at least see that moving Melo to the 4 does not change who he is
This is not Triangle
Bad coaching
Bad talent around Melo
This is Melo being who he has been.
As he's getting older the gas tank is getting emptier.
In his prime he could play this way and have strong finishes in the 4th. I don't have the stats but I'm sure he was a better FG percentage closer from 2005-2012. He just is not the same player.
Phil has screwed up. Noah contract is all on him. NTC was a bad move. His tweets are uncalled for.
But Melo is a problem. NY media views him as some great player or scorer that helps us, he is a problem. If he played like Dad Melo we would be better. If he let the game come to him in the 4th and took good shots, not worried about trying to take over, again we would be better.
Is that -4.9 stat real?
So with Melo we are -4.9 and also with him in the 4th we have the 5th worst fourth quarter shooter? Unreal. Makes me so sad as a Knicks fan.
This team with a better smarter Melo is a playoff team. Maybe only a 7th seed but still a playoff team. I guess the tanking POV it's good Melo is playing so dumb. He has so much talent. Why does he not understand his career is winding down, time to play smart veteran basketball.
7th seed is the worst place to be. I think they could even be better. But they're not beating the Cavs or the Warriors. Best to just rebuild. The fact that they can't even beat the Sixers is pathetic. Sixers with Embiid is one thing. Sixers with no Embiid? That's terrible.
I honestly don't think we can get a good return for him in a trade. I don't hate Melo obviously. But I'm just so sick of this version of the team. I wish they'd waive Rose and tell him we're tanking. When was the last time this team even won two in a row? I can't remember it.
You know not just Melo but Rose has been mostly AWFUL in closing out games! I can remember a few bad turnovers and in the Sixers loss he blew a GREAT look on a play Horny called after a timeout!!! Melo and Rose can't lay this at the feet of Hornacek or the Triangle!!! Also they once again froze KP OUT in the 4th!!!
Knixkik wrote:crzymdups wrote:Phil needs to tell Melo he'll be the 6th man next year and they're rebuilding. He should cut Rose now. But the awfulness of Phil has only partially to do with how he's handled the Melo situation. It cannot be stated enough that the situation we're in now with Melo's contract was 100% Phil's choice.
It was his choice, but it's clear we would have lost him without the NTC. For what it's worth, Phil did not want his first move in NY to be letting Melo walk for nothing.
That's fair. But supposedly Chicago offered Melo 4yr $79M. We paid him almost $50M more. Phil didn't need to include the no trade. He wasted time trying to get Melo to take a little less in the second year for a free agent haul that never came. He should've maxed him but not included a trade kicker and NTC. That's not really hindsight either. Everyone was shocked he got a no trade clause at the time. Almost no one in the league has those.
The bench scored a total of 7 points last night...7 fckng points, and baker is a 12th man no matter what. I would rather sit his d league as down, and see what Randle can do
Doesn't matter if we are up by 10 or down by 10 in the 4th, we play at the exact same pace, the exact same plays (despite the opposing teams adjustments)
crzymdups wrote:Knixkik wrote:crzymdups wrote:Phil needs to tell Melo he'll be the 6th man next year and they're rebuilding. He should cut Rose now. But the awfulness of Phil has only partially to do with how he's handled the Melo situation. It cannot be stated enough that the situation we're in now with Melo's contract was 100% Phil's choice.
It was his choice, but it's clear we would have lost him without the NTC. For what it's worth, Phil did not want his first move in NY to be letting Melo walk for nothing.
That's fair. But supposedly Chicago offered Melo 4yr $79M. We paid him almost $50M more. Phil didn't need to include the no trade. He wasted time trying to get Melo to take a little less in the second year for a free agent haul that never came. He should've maxed him but not included a trade kicker and NTC. That's not really hindsight either. Everyone was shocked he got a no trade clause at the time. Almost no one in the league has those.
I think only Lebron and Dirk have them besides Melo. There's a ton of rules around them that prevents them from being given out more often. Given the fact that Phil asked Melo to take a little less, and Melo was very close to choosing Chicago, Phil did him the favor with the NTC in exchange for the bit of money he gave back. Maybe he should have just offered the deal he thought was fair without the NTC and risked losing him, but that's the way it goes.
Knixkik wrote:crzymdups wrote:Phil needs to tell Melo he'll be the 6th man next year and they're rebuilding. He should cut Rose now. But the awfulness of Phil has only partially to do with how he's handled the Melo situation. It cannot be stated enough that the situation we're in now with Melo's contract was 100% Phil's choice.
It was his choice, but it's clear we would have lost him without the NTC. For what it's worth, Phil did not want his first move in NY to be letting Melo walk for nothing.
You think if we offered 1 more guaranteed year and about $30 mil more than any other team could, Melo would have walked because we didn't give him the NTC? (And walked to a team that also couldn't give him an NTC?) It's possible but I think he would have looked worse than Phil would have.
