crzymdups wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:Rose doesn't stall the offense like Melo though. He goes right away for his move which is almost always a drive. That's why I have less issue with him, he plays a more attacking high percentage game with the constant drives and it breaks down a defense. I'll never be a big Rose fan. My reasoning in being open to re-sign him is if we don't draft Fultz or Ball which we aren't, then who the hell is our starting PG next year? The PG market is basically Curry, Paul, Hill, Holiday and then it's probably Rose and some other guys. Rose may be the only starting level PG we can sign. Ideally we draft a point guard that is starting level and let Rose walk. I just don't think it will be easy to do that. Additionally I only want him back at certain contract that is movable in trade. You won't see me want to see him stay for 100+ million. If he's willing to take 60-70$M in guaranteed money with a team option after that, I am open to it because the starters do need an attacking guard. Rose has bad games but he also has many good games. We can't rely on Randle/Baker every night.
I'd love to get Holiday but he will be expensive and has a big injury history as well. He may not come either. Same with George Hill very expensive and not coming most likely. Curry/Paul definitely not coming. Not many options unless we want to overpay Darren Collison or someone like that. It's easy to say lets get rid of Rose or cut him now, but who do we sign in free agency to be the starting 1 if we can't draft a NBA ready starting 1 (or we like someone better with more talent at another position, because you always draft best player available)? I'm all ears.
That is just disgusting to watch
I just don't get the Derrick Rose supporters. There are two components to basketball: offense and defense. His defense is just pathetic. I'd rate it a D or F. On offense he is incredible at getting to the basket but misses a lot of lay ups that causes easy transition buckets the other way. He makes nobody around him better. His 20+ point games are pretty hollow because he tends to give up 20+ points on defense
90sKnicks wrote:I just don't get the Derrick Rose supporters. There are two components to basketball: offense and defense. His defense is just pathetic. I'd rate it a D or F. On offense he is incredible at getting to the basket but misses a lot of lay ups that causes easy transition buckets the other way. He makes nobody around him better. His 20+ point games are pretty hollow because he tends to give up 20+ points on defense
It's rare you'll find a PG who can defend in the league. Most PG's in the league are pretty bad defenders.
Look at the Knicks PG's the last few years. Can you honestly say Felton after he got out of shape was a good defender? Calderon?
Rose's effort has changed the last 2.5-3 weeks. Perhaps it's all pretend because he's going to free agency. His agent has also said he wants to stay a Knick. Can we honestly say we'll be able to sign a better free agent than Rose?
With Rose he has the ability to push the ball, go back at you at the other end. The Warriors are one of the best teams in the league, maybe the best, and Rose was able to keep the game competitive with KP and our bench playing well. We had a lead multiple times in that game. He had an off night yesterday and he's no longer in his peak, but he can still do things that I think we absolutely need to be a good team on offense.
Now it's a great point you made about that his misses as layups can lead to easy baskets for our opponents. But that's not on Rose. That's on the team not being set up right. That's actually why the Triangle is coming back, it has 2 players always at the top so they should be first line of defense. What I hate about Rose is how we was going under every screen and not fighting hard off the screen rolls. That has actually changed. If anyone wants to disagree that's fine but I have seen a significant change in his defensive effort and recognition of the open man on drives the last few weeks.
I'm not a fan of Rose. I just don't see many other solutions. I honestly see him pricing himself high and us passing on keeping him. He will want money that I hope we don't agree to pay to him. What I'm saying is IF the money is ok, and if the length of the contract is guaranteed no more than 3 years, and IF we can't sign a better PG in free agency (Or draft a PG in the lottery) then having a teammate like Rose for KP/Willy/Our lottery pick will be good. Without a guard that can break down the defense off the dribble, we'd be a pretty easy team to defend. No good offense is without a player that can constantly get to the basket off the dribble. Probably the one thing we made some development it from last season was the team's offense. There was no way unde Fisher we average 106 as a team for the season. Don't want to lose that. We need to get a starting level PG and while Rose is my 5th or 6th choice, he should be in consideration if the money is right. Don't confuse that with support for him or being a fan of his. I much rather have 20 other PG's in the league that are either not coming here as free agents or we won't be able to trade for them. I'd love to draft Ball or Fultz. However if that is not available, I consider Rose on a 3 year deal. If the deal is right, then you can always move him in trade and not lose him as an asset for nothing. Another reason why I say "money has to be right". I think on a 3 year $70 M type of deal he is very tradable in a future deal.
NYKBocker wrote:nixluva wrote:The win was worth it to see the kids shine in particular Randle!!! We all wanted this kid to make the team and now that with a bit of luck he's back where he should've been all along, it feels good. He showed pretty much what we saw in him. So between Willy, Baker, Holiday and Randle that's not a bad development in a lost year.
Add Dr. Crash 2.0 to that list. Also, I am in the minority here but I still like N'Dour.
Me too. I've heard scattered rumors that the staff really likes him and views him as a defensive stopper but needing development and a few more lbs
Interesting contrast. Rose looked explosive blowing past defenders. I was watching Orlando feed and the commentators couldn't stop talking about him. Yet overall he was ineffective. Inefficient poor D careless w ball
Randle was quiet but effective. I was very happy for him. Maybe his stint w philly got whatever yips out of his system
I'll be honest. I'm getting sick of flashy players. Too often they're one dimensionAl ball hogs
Whoever we draft or sign this year I want them to play the right way and respect a system
crzymdups wrote:90sKnicks wrote:I was hoping all game that O'Quinn wasn't going to play because i felt that this is the type of game where his grit and toughness would help us to a win. Putting him together on the floor with Lance who always plays 110% and Randle who was actually playing defense i knew would be trouble for the tank. The irony is if Melo and Rose played that fourth quarter, we likely lose.
Yeah... it was nice to see Chasson play well, but I winced when KOQ came in. He was playing against his old team, you knew he'd do well. Every win hurts right now. It sucks to be in that position, but they're essentially doubling the pain of this terrible season by winning these games.
I think it'd hurt worse to be #6 on that board and knowing you took Johnny freaking Flynn over Curry.
MaTT4281 wrote:crzymdups wrote:90sKnicks wrote:I was hoping all game that O'Quinn wasn't going to play because i felt that this is the type of game where his grit and toughness would help us to a win. Putting him together on the floor with Lance who always plays 110% and Randle who was actually playing defense i knew would be trouble for the tank. The irony is if Melo and Rose played that fourth quarter, we likely lose.
Yeah... it was nice to see Chasson play well, but I winced when KOQ came in. He was playing against his old team, you knew he'd do well. Every win hurts right now. It sucks to be in that position, but they're essentially doubling the pain of this terrible season by winning these games.
I think it'd hurt worse to be #6 on that board and knowing you took Johnny freaking Flynn over Curry.
True. That's David Kahn... they actually took Rubio at 5 and Flynn at 6 in that draft. Rubio's a decent pick... but Flynn was terrible.
It just hurt because almost all Knicks fans thought we'd get Curry and he then became a two-time MVP
fitzfarm wrote:Again who thought randle was a bad defender? Lol the guy is a goood defender and a very good shooter... more minutes please
One 20 minute game may not expose a player but a whole lot of them could. In the DLeague he was not a good defender, nor for that matter a good shooter outside of the 3pt area. Hopefully he works those out.
crzymdups wrote:MaTT4281 wrote:crzymdups wrote:90sKnicks wrote:I was hoping all game that O'Quinn wasn't going to play because i felt that this is the type of game where his grit and toughness would help us to a win. Putting him together on the floor with Lance who always plays 110% and Randle who was actually playing defense i knew would be trouble for the tank. The irony is if Melo and Rose played that fourth quarter, we likely lose.
Yeah... it was nice to see Chasson play well, but I winced when KOQ came in. He was playing against his old team, you knew he'd do well. Every win hurts right now. It sucks to be in that position, but they're essentially doubling the pain of this terrible season by winning these games.
I think it'd hurt worse to be #6 on that board and knowing you took Johnny freaking Flynn over Curry.
True. That's David Kahn... they actually took Rubio at 5 and Flynn at 6 in that draft. Rubio's a decent pick... but Flynn was terrible.
It just hurt because almost all Knicks fans thought we'd get Curry and he then became a two-time MVP
Kahn was honestly one of the worst GMs of all time- he took THREE pg's that draft. What an idiot.
crzymdups wrote:MaTT4281 wrote:
True. That's David Kahn... they actually took Rubio at 5 and Flynn at 6 in that draft. Rubio's a decent pick... but Flynn was terrible. It just hurt because almost all Knicks fans thought we'd get Curry and he then became a two-time MVP
I think we will get similarly disappointed if we lose out on Monk this year
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I think we will get similarly disappointed if we lose out on Monk this year
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The 76ers are going to take Monk and there really is nothing we can do to stop that. We won't finish with a worse record then them and they have a franchise center, and a small forward who will serve as a point forward. Think about it...all they need is a guard who can light it up scoring
martin wrote:fitzfarm wrote:Again who thought randle was a bad defender? Lol the guy is a goood defender and a very good shooter... more minutes please
One 20 minute game may not expose a player but a whole lot of them could. In the DLeague he was not a good defender, nor for that matter a good shooter outside of the 3pt area. Hopefully he works those out.
I'm gonna cut the kid a bit of a break in that he was working his way back after an injury. Perhaps it took him a while to get his game back. We've got some good games left to see just what Randle can do. Hopefully he steps up and continues to play well.
