Knicks · In Randle We Trust... (page 5)
fishmike wrote:nixluva wrote:I think I am getting the point just fine. His last 2 years of college his shooting %s went DOWN. That trend has continued in the NBA. We have a 3+ year sample size that tells us Baker isnt going to be a good offensive player. Also lets not confuse playing hard on D with being an elite defender. Baker's effort is there, but his impact is not very high. Can Baker fill a role or a need short term? That is why he's here. He's a warm body holding a spot.fishmike wrote:nixluva wrote:fishmike wrote:nixluva wrote:Just so we're clear here, Baker has offensive ability. He's trying to adjust to the NBA level as a PG which he hasn't technically been. He's learned the Triangle fairly quickly and if his shots were dropping as they should he'd be doing great. Baker is long for his height and tho he's not explosive he is strong. He does just about everything at a good level and shooting was NEVER his problem.This is fluff. Baker last 2 years in college he was a 42% shooter. There has never been anything about him that says he's a good offensive player. He was utterly average at the college level and well below at the NBA level. Baker certainly does not "do everything well" on offense. He's high effort and low skill. I get he is likable, but he's an undrafted rookie with a well below average NBA skill set. His numbers seem to back that up.Shooting Guardhttp://www.midmajormadness.com/2016/6/21...
Wichita State, Sr., 23
6'4, 220 pounds
6'9.75 wingspan, 35.5'' max vert2015-16 Statistics: 14.0 PPG, 4.8 RPG, 3.2 APG, 1.5 SPG, 0.6 BPG, 1.6 TOPG, 42.4% FG, 79.3% FT, 35.0% 3P
Summary: Ron Baker is a solid outside shooter with a high basketball IQ. He went from a virtually unknown walk-on to one of the best college players in the country in just a few short years. The biggest turn-off for NBA teams will be his age; at 23, Baker is one of the oldest players in the draft. For reference, Baker is three months older than Wizards guard Bradley Beal, who is about to enter his fifth NBA season. In an era where NBA teams tend to target 18-20 year-olds who they can develop for the first few years of their career, Baker's age definitely does not do him any favors.
Offensive Breakdown: He does everything well, but does not have any singular standout skill that jumps off the page. His greatest strength is his ability to knock down mid- to long-range jump shots. Baker is also a solid distributor with one of the lowest turnover rates of any guard in the nation throughout his career. If he can continue to improve his three-point shooting, he could potentially find a role as an instant offense guy coming off the bench for an NBA team.
Defensive Breakdown: Baker was a decent on-ball defender in college, but that should be taken with a grain of salt when you compare the talent levels of the Missouri Valley to the players he will be asked to guard in the NBA. He is undersized for a shooting guard, and he will often give up 4-6 inches on opposing shooting guards. He also doesn't have great lateral quickness by NBA guard standards.
Turns out Baker has more than enough lateral quickness for the NBA!!! So once his shot comes around as it should he's going to be a very nice player for this team off the bench. The Knicks aren't worried that somehow Baker has lost the ability to shoot!
I disagree
what did you just show me? That Baker's shooting dropped for 3 years in a row in college?
Year League Team GP Min Pts FG FGA FG% 2Pt 2PtA 2P% 3Pt 3PtA 3P% FTM FTA FT%
2012/13 NCAA Wichita St 18 26.1 8.7 2.5 6.3 39.8 0.8 1.6 51.7 1.7 4.7 35.7 2.1 2.5 82.2
2013/14 NCAA Wichita St 35 30.0 13.0 4.0 8.9 44.7 2.1 3.9 54.1 1.9 5.0 37.5 3.2 3.7 84.7
2014/15 NCAA Wichita St 34 33.0 14.6 4.9 11.4 42.7 2.6 5.4 48.6 2.2 6.0 37.4 2.7 3.6 76.0
2015/16 NCAA Wichita St 34 31.6 13.8 4.5 10.7 42.3 2.7 5.5 49.5 1.8 5.2 34.8 2.9 3.7 78.4Season School Conf ORtg DRtg
2012-13 Wichita State 121.3 99.5
2013-14 Wichita State 125.2 92.7
2014-15 Wichita State 123.3 92.7
2015-16 Wichita State 116.0 87.9
Career Wichita State 121.3 92.1You seem to miss the point. Good defender. Decent shooter. Now I'm not saying he is some star but he certainly can be a solid reserve guard and he CAN shoot better than he has this year. No one should expect Baker to light the world on fire but he deserves more than the small sample he's had so far to just assume he won't get his offense going.
IMO Baker is a guy who could be like Dellvadova. Teams can use those kinds of players that give MAX EFFORT and play TEAM BALL. Time will tell what he does at this level.
What would it take for Baker to be an effective rotation player? He's either got to shoot much better or facilitate much better. Which one of those that we havent seen in a few years is going to pop now that he's in the NBA?
I applaud Phil for looking at this talent pool. I will be thrilled to be wrong about Baker, but your argument that he's good isnt based on anything that has actually happened in this reality. He actually had some buzz after his sophomore season and did nothing to stand out or help himself as senior classman. I like that we are looking at guys like Baker instead of guys like Moochie Norris, but lets keep it in perspective.
Baker had ONE season where his 3pt shooting dipped slightly and really that is the area I expect him to have to improve. I think perhaps you're assuming that my statements are made in a vacuum. There's ALWAYS perspective in how I look at players. For an Undrafted rookie like Baker I'm not grading him like a guy that has a higher upside. He's headed towards being a role player and an example is LT. He showed very little aptitude for doing what he has since joining the Knicks but he improved with hard work.
nixluva wrote:Cartman718 wrote:nixluva wrote:Just so we're clear here, Baker has offensive ability. He's trying to adjust to the NBA level as a PG which he hasn't technically been.i can probably show you similar youtube videos for ANY undrafted players who now play in the NBA.
but listen to your own above statement...about adjustment. sounds like he needs more time...in the d-league.
Dude is just missing wide open 3's. Really that's the area that he's been off the mark with. That's not exactly something i'd be worried about with him. Dude can shoot. For whatever reason his shots have been just a little bit off. Not way off. Just not quite right and that is probably just a technical issue with his shot that can be fixed. Now perhaps you should look at all the other things he's doing right and consider that once he fixes his jump shot he'll be a good role player for this team. I'd be more worried if he wasn't a decent shooter for his career in college but he was. Now are you willing to bet that he will not be able to get his shot going again???
i am willing to bet its not worth our time giving him a shot on the NY Knicks until it is fixed.