can we get tony wroten back too :) just playing but that would be one energetic backcourt. ron ron doesn't look very enthusiastic and doesn't inspire his teammates. read my siggy.
nixluva@ 3/8/2017 1:09 PM
Cartman718 wrote:
nixluva wrote:This is a really nice article on Randle with short video clips.
can we get tony wroten back too :) just playing but that would be one energetic backcourt. ron ron doesn't look very enthusiastic and doesn't inspire his teammates. read my siggy.
Who is Ron Ron? Are you talking about Ron Baker? I think Ron is fine as a tough reserve guard. He's had far less experience as a PG and still he does help this team when he's on the floor. He's got to gain more confidence and fix his shot. He's a capable scorer so I suspect he'll get that going with more work. Still we are talking about a UDFA role player. Besides his teammates love him.
CrushAlot@ 3/8/2017 4:38 PM
NYKBocker wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
BigRedDog wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:I couldn't watch yesterday, anyone care to comment on his defense?
Come on man record the game and watch it. No other reason to have cable
Wish I could but they don't show Knicks games out here in Ohio. Even the national TV ones sometimes get overrode by Cavaliers games.
Get Apple tv and then buy the NBA package only for the Knicks. Maybe $100 for the season. Not a bad buy
Wife won't let me cut cable. And that's pretty expensive to start with. I'll buy NBA package when the Knicks are finally worth watching.
My wife was also hesitant about cutting the cord so I just did it but made sure everything is in place for the transition to streaming and only having basic TV. NBA League Pass for only Knicks is great.
I love this topic. We are having a major wind storm in western NY and we don't have power. I will share smoe things I have done when we get are power back. Estimate is for 3:15 tomorrow.
knickstorrents@ 3/8/2017 6:12 PM
Wow Randle seems like a sharp guy. Check out this quote from a Post article:
“The triangle itself is just a name. Some of the actions you get out of the triangle, you see in other offenses,” Randle said. “Two-man game where you get a triangle on the side. Cut off the post, things like that. I think there are similarities with other systems.”
We need more players like him and Ron Baker and fewer players like Rose.
nixluva@ 3/8/2017 6:20 PM
knickstorrents wrote:Wow Randle seems like a sharp guy. Check out this quote from a Post article:
“The triangle itself is just a name. Some of the actions you get out of the triangle, you see in other offenses,” Randle said. “Two-man game where you get a triangle on the side. Cut off the post, things like that. I think there are similarities with other systems.”
We need more players like him and Ron Baker and fewer players like Rose.
This is the difference between what people call a Triangle player and a non Triangle player. Just being able to understand basketball from a deeper level. It's like a QB in Football that can read defenses. You want a QB that can read a defense and see the play before it happens.
Cartman718@ 3/9/2017 8:40 AM
nixluva wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
nixluva wrote:This is a really nice article on Randle with short video clips.
can we get tony wroten back too :) just playing but that would be one energetic backcourt. ron ron doesn't look very enthusiastic and doesn't inspire his teammates. read my siggy.
Who is Ron Ron? Are you talking about Ron Baker? I think Ron is fine as a tough reserve guard. He's had far less experience as a PG and still he does help this team when he's on the floor. He's got to gain more confidence and fix his shot. He's a capable scorer so I suspect he'll get that going with more work. Still we are talking about a UDFA role player. Besides his teammates love him.
Ron Ron is your second cousin's nephew's half brother. Ron Baker does not belong in the NBA...only his defense does. His offense and shot making is just about as bad as Jerian Grant's...who in my opinion still doesn't belong in NBA.
Yes his teammates love him and thats why we should keep him (sarcasm).
nixluva@ 3/9/2017 8:49 AM
Cartman718 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
nixluva wrote:This is a really nice article on Randle with short video clips.
can we get tony wroten back too :) just playing but that would be one energetic backcourt. ron ron doesn't look very enthusiastic and doesn't inspire his teammates. read my siggy.
Who is Ron Ron? Are you talking about Ron Baker? I think Ron is fine as a tough reserve guard. He's had far less experience as a PG and still he does help this team when he's on the floor. He's got to gain more confidence and fix his shot. He's a capable scorer so I suspect he'll get that going with more work. Still we are talking about a UDFA role player. Besides his teammates love him.
Ron Ron is your second cousin's nephew's half brother. Ron Baker does not belong in the NBA...only his defense does. His offense and shot making is just about as bad as Jerian Grant's...who in my opinion still doesn't belong in NBA.
Yes his teammates love him and thats why we should keep him (sarcasm).
We're talking about a rookie who wasn't drafted. I think the Knicks want to continue to develop him and aren't taking a shortsighted view of him. Teams actually do invest time in prospects and I see no reason they can't do that with Baker. They know he's more than capable of getting his shot going. It's not like he can't shoot at all.
Cartman718@ 3/9/2017 9:22 AM
nixluva wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
nixluva wrote:This is a really nice article on Randle with short video clips.
can we get tony wroten back too :) just playing but that would be one energetic backcourt. ron ron doesn't look very enthusiastic and doesn't inspire his teammates. read my siggy.
Who is Ron Ron? Are you talking about Ron Baker? I think Ron is fine as a tough reserve guard. He's had far less experience as a PG and still he does help this team when he's on the floor. He's got to gain more confidence and fix his shot. He's a capable scorer so I suspect he'll get that going with more work. Still we are talking about a UDFA role player. Besides his teammates love him.
Ron Ron is your second cousin's nephew's half brother. Ron Baker does not belong in the NBA...only his defense does. His offense and shot making is just about as bad as Jerian Grant's...who in my opinion still doesn't belong in NBA.
Yes his teammates love him and thats why we should keep him (sarcasm).
We're talking about a rookie who wasn't drafted. I think the Knicks want to continue to develop him and aren't taking a shortsighted view of him. Teams actually do invest time in prospects and I see no reason they can't do that with Baker. They know he's more than capable of getting his shot going. It's not like he can't shoot at all.
send him to the d-league then. he clearly should be learning how to shoot OUTSIDE of the nba.
nixluva@ 3/9/2017 9:33 AM
Cartman718 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
nixluva wrote:This is a really nice article on Randle with short video clips.
can we get tony wroten back too :) just playing but that would be one energetic backcourt. ron ron doesn't look very enthusiastic and doesn't inspire his teammates. read my siggy.
Who is Ron Ron? Are you talking about Ron Baker? I think Ron is fine as a tough reserve guard. He's had far less experience as a PG and still he does help this team when he's on the floor. He's got to gain more confidence and fix his shot. He's a capable scorer so I suspect he'll get that going with more work. Still we are talking about a UDFA role player. Besides his teammates love him.
Ron Ron is your second cousin's nephew's half brother. Ron Baker does not belong in the NBA...only his defense does. His offense and shot making is just about as bad as Jerian Grant's...who in my opinion still doesn't belong in NBA.
Yes his teammates love him and thats why we should keep him (sarcasm).
We're talking about a rookie who wasn't drafted. I think the Knicks want to continue to develop him and aren't taking a shortsighted view of him. Teams actually do invest time in prospects and I see no reason they can't do that with Baker. They know he's more than capable of getting his shot going. It's not like he can't shoot at all.
send him to the d-league then. he clearly should be learning how to shoot OUTSIDE of the nba.
This makes no sense given the experience he's gaining from playing at the NBA level. I think Baker made good progress on all the other parts of the game that are VERY important. Baker wasn't a PG and he's come a long way. I'm not worried about his shooting to be honest. I think it's just one of those slumps that can happen to players. Baker is a good shooter for his career and I expect him to get it going again at some point.
martin@ 3/9/2017 10:14 AM
Cartman718 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
nixluva wrote:This is a really nice article on Randle with short video clips.
can we get tony wroten back too :) just playing but that would be one energetic backcourt. ron ron doesn't look very enthusiastic and doesn't inspire his teammates. read my siggy.
Who is Ron Ron? Are you talking about Ron Baker? I think Ron is fine as a tough reserve guard. He's had far less experience as a PG and still he does help this team when he's on the floor. He's got to gain more confidence and fix his shot. He's a capable scorer so I suspect he'll get that going with more work. Still we are talking about a UDFA role player. Besides his teammates love him.
Ron Ron is your second cousin's nephew's half brother. Ron Baker does not belong in the NBA...only his defense does. His offense and shot making is just about as bad as Jerian Grant's...who in my opinion still doesn't belong in NBA.
Yes his teammates love him and thats why we should keep him (sarcasm).
I don't get this statement. Most PGs - starting PGs - can't stay in front of their man, and yet we have seen Ron do this on more than one occasion. He fights over picks, he kinda sorta stayed in front of Steph Curry quite nicely throughout the GS game. Baker doesn't shut anyone down but he is a tough defender, sets very nice picks, helps out, screens, get steals, moves the ball, makes some nice passes.... and we don't want him on the team? Send him to the D-League cause he doesn't shoot well enough? We don't like guys because they JUST play defense?
What is this about?
fishmike@ 3/9/2017 10:51 AM
martin wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
nixluva wrote:This is a really nice article on Randle with short video clips.
can we get tony wroten back too :) just playing but that would be one energetic backcourt. ron ron doesn't look very enthusiastic and doesn't inspire his teammates. read my siggy.
Who is Ron Ron? Are you talking about Ron Baker? I think Ron is fine as a tough reserve guard. He's had far less experience as a PG and still he does help this team when he's on the floor. He's got to gain more confidence and fix his shot. He's a capable scorer so I suspect he'll get that going with more work. Still we are talking about a UDFA role player. Besides his teammates love him.
Ron Ron is your second cousin's nephew's half brother. Ron Baker does not belong in the NBA...only his defense does. His offense and shot making is just about as bad as Jerian Grant's...who in my opinion still doesn't belong in NBA.
Yes his teammates love him and thats why we should keep him (sarcasm).
I don't get this statement. Most PGs - starting PGs - can't stay in front of their man, and yet we have seen Ron do this on more than one occasion. He fights over picks, he kinda sorta stayed in front of Steph Curry quite nicely throughout the GS game. Baker doesn't shut anyone down but he is a tough defender, sets very nice picks, helps out, screens, get steals, moves the ball, makes some nice passes.... and we don't want him on the team? Send him to the D-League cause he doesn't shoot well enough? We don't like guys because they JUST play defense?
What is this about?
Baker is a nice transition player... and I mean that as we transition from one era to another. You cant get the players overnight. There is going to be process. Martin I think all those things you mentioned means he stays around, but as a coaching staff you really want him to lose his job. He's really limited. He's a very poor offensive player. He creates very little space, doesnt get past his man with the dribble, isnt a knockdown shooter, and doesnt have a world class handle, so as a guard in this NBA does he really belong? I dont really see it unless he develops one of those 3 key skills on offense. I always thought Randle was the better prospect anyway and I am glad he's back. The things I see in Randle IMO make him a much better prospect. He can score. Has a nice shot from all over the court. He dribbles into the paint with a plan and he's got some real court vision.
Baker strikes me as a guy getting his NBA cup of coffee and he's playing his arse off while here. Thats good and a guy the coaches will want around for the practice culture and hard work. However on the floor I just think Baker is very low impact and lacking some foundation skills that are required to be a good rotation guy in this league. I hope Baker proves me dead wrong!
Cartman718@ 3/9/2017 10:59 AM
martin wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
nixluva wrote:This is a really nice article on Randle with short video clips.
can we get tony wroten back too :) just playing but that would be one energetic backcourt. ron ron doesn't look very enthusiastic and doesn't inspire his teammates. read my siggy.
Who is Ron Ron? Are you talking about Ron Baker? I think Ron is fine as a tough reserve guard. He's had far less experience as a PG and still he does help this team when he's on the floor. He's got to gain more confidence and fix his shot. He's a capable scorer so I suspect he'll get that going with more work. Still we are talking about a UDFA role player. Besides his teammates love him.
Ron Ron is your second cousin's nephew's half brother. Ron Baker does not belong in the NBA...only his defense does. His offense and shot making is just about as bad as Jerian Grant's...who in my opinion still doesn't belong in NBA.
Yes his teammates love him and thats why we should keep him (sarcasm).
I don't get this statement. Most PGs - starting PGs - can't stay in front of their man, and yet we have seen Ron do this on more than one occasion. He fights over picks, he kinda sorta stayed in front of Steph Curry quite nicely throughout the GS game. Baker doesn't shut anyone down but he is a tough defender, sets very nice picks, helps out, screens, get steals, moves the ball, makes some nice passes.... and we don't want him on the team? Send him to the D-League cause he doesn't shoot well enough? We don't like guys because they JUST play defense?
What is this about?
correct...we should not like guys who just play defense. we need two way players...baker is a one-way player. same reason why we cant wait to get rose off this team. rose was at least great on offense. baker is not great on defense...just serviceable.
justin holiday came in with the same rep (defensive guy) and over the course of the season has shown he can shoot too.
nixluva@ 3/9/2017 11:32 AM
Just so we're clear here, Baker has offensive ability. He's trying to adjust to the NBA level as a PG which he hasn't technically been. He's learned the Triangle fairly quickly and if his shots were dropping as they should he'd be doing great. Baker is long for his height and tho he's not explosive he is strong. He does just about everything at a good level and shooting was NEVER his problem.
Shooting Guard Wichita State, Sr., 23 6'4, 220 pounds 6'9.75 wingspan, 35.5'' max vert
Summary: Ron Baker is a solid outside shooter with a high basketball IQ. He went from a virtually unknown walk-on to one of the best college players in the country in just a few short years. The biggest turn-off for NBA teams will be his age; at 23, Baker is one of the oldest players in the draft. For reference, Baker is three months older than Wizards guard Bradley Beal, who is about to enter his fifth NBA season. In an era where NBA teams tend to target 18-20 year-olds who they can develop for the first few years of their career, Baker's age definitely does not do him any favors.
Offensive Breakdown: He does everything well, but does not have any singular standout skill that jumps off the page. His greatest strength is his ability to knock down mid- to long-range jump shots. Baker is also a solid distributor with one of the lowest turnover rates of any guard in the nation throughout his career. If he can continue to improve his three-point shooting, he could potentially find a role as an instant offense guy coming off the bench for an NBA team.
Defensive Breakdown: Baker was a decent on-ball defender in college, but that should be taken with a grain of salt when you compare the talent levels of the Missouri Valley to the players he will be asked to guard in the NBA. He is undersized for a shooting guard, and he will often give up 4-6 inches on opposing shooting guards. He also doesn't have great lateral quickness by NBA guard standards.
Turns out Baker has more than enough lateral quickness for the NBA!!! So once his shot comes around as it should he's going to be a very nice player for this team off the bench. The Knicks aren't worried that somehow Baker has lost the ability to shoot!
Cartman718@ 3/9/2017 11:43 AM
nixluva wrote:Just so we're clear here, Baker has offensive ability. He's trying to adjust to the NBA level as a PG which he hasn't technically been.
i can probably show you similar youtube videos for ANY undrafted players who now play in the NBA. but listen to your own above statement...about adjustment. sounds like he needs more time...in the d-league.
nixluva@ 3/9/2017 12:01 PM
Cartman718 wrote:
nixluva wrote:Just so we're clear here, Baker has offensive ability. He's trying to adjust to the NBA level as a PG which he hasn't technically been.
i can probably show you similar youtube videos for ANY undrafted players who now play in the NBA. but listen to your own above statement...about adjustment. sounds like he needs more time...in the d-league.
Dude is just missing wide open 3's. Really that's the area that he's been off the mark with. That's not exactly something i'd be worried about with him. Dude can shoot. For whatever reason his shots have been just a little bit off. Not way off. Just not quite right and that is probably just a technical issue with his shot that can be fixed. Now perhaps you should look at all the other things he's doing right and consider that once he fixes his jump shot he'll be a good role player for this team. I'd be more worried if he wasn't a decent shooter for his career in college but he was. Now are you willing to bet that he will not be able to get his shot going again???
fishmike@ 3/9/2017 12:07 PM
nixluva wrote:Just so we're clear here, Baker has offensive ability. He's trying to adjust to the NBA level as a PG which he hasn't technically been. He's learned the Triangle fairly quickly and if his shots were dropping as they should he'd be doing great. Baker is long for his height and tho he's not explosive he is strong. He does just about everything at a good level and shooting was NEVER his problem.
Shooting Guard Wichita State, Sr., 23 6'4, 220 pounds 6'9.75 wingspan, 35.5'' max vert
Summary: Ron Baker is a solid outside shooter with a high basketball IQ. He went from a virtually unknown walk-on to one of the best college players in the country in just a few short years. The biggest turn-off for NBA teams will be his age; at 23, Baker is one of the oldest players in the draft. For reference, Baker is three months older than Wizards guard Bradley Beal, who is about to enter his fifth NBA season. In an era where NBA teams tend to target 18-20 year-olds who they can develop for the first few years of their career, Baker's age definitely does not do him any favors.
Offensive Breakdown: He does everything well, but does not have any singular standout skill that jumps off the page. His greatest strength is his ability to knock down mid- to long-range jump shots. Baker is also a solid distributor with one of the lowest turnover rates of any guard in the nation throughout his career. If he can continue to improve his three-point shooting, he could potentially find a role as an instant offense guy coming off the bench for an NBA team.
Defensive Breakdown: Baker was a decent on-ball defender in college, but that should be taken with a grain of salt when you compare the talent levels of the Missouri Valley to the players he will be asked to guard in the NBA. He is undersized for a shooting guard, and he will often give up 4-6 inches on opposing shooting guards. He also doesn't have great lateral quickness by NBA guard standards.
Turns out Baker has more than enough lateral quickness for the NBA!!! So once his shot comes around as it should he's going to be a very nice player for this team off the bench. The Knicks aren't worried that somehow Baker has lost the ability to shoot!
This is fluff. Baker last 2 years in college he was a 42% shooter. There has never been anything about him that says he's a good offensive player. He was utterly average at the college level and well below at the NBA level. Baker certainly does not "do everything well" on offense. He's high effort and low skill. I get he is likable, but he's an undrafted rookie with a well below average NBA skill set. His numbers seem to back that up.
nixluva@ 3/9/2017 12:20 PM
fishmike wrote:
nixluva wrote:Just so we're clear here, Baker has offensive ability. He's trying to adjust to the NBA level as a PG which he hasn't technically been. He's learned the Triangle fairly quickly and if his shots were dropping as they should he'd be doing great. Baker is long for his height and tho he's not explosive he is strong. He does just about everything at a good level and shooting was NEVER his problem.
Shooting Guard Wichita State, Sr., 23 6'4, 220 pounds 6'9.75 wingspan, 35.5'' max vert
Summary: Ron Baker is a solid outside shooter with a high basketball IQ. He went from a virtually unknown walk-on to one of the best college players in the country in just a few short years. The biggest turn-off for NBA teams will be his age; at 23, Baker is one of the oldest players in the draft. For reference, Baker is three months older than Wizards guard Bradley Beal, who is about to enter his fifth NBA season. In an era where NBA teams tend to target 18-20 year-olds who they can develop for the first few years of their career, Baker's age definitely does not do him any favors.
Offensive Breakdown: He does everything well, but does not have any singular standout skill that jumps off the page. His greatest strength is his ability to knock down mid- to long-range jump shots. Baker is also a solid distributor with one of the lowest turnover rates of any guard in the nation throughout his career. If he can continue to improve his three-point shooting, he could potentially find a role as an instant offense guy coming off the bench for an NBA team.
Defensive Breakdown: Baker was a decent on-ball defender in college, but that should be taken with a grain of salt when you compare the talent levels of the Missouri Valley to the players he will be asked to guard in the NBA. He is undersized for a shooting guard, and he will often give up 4-6 inches on opposing shooting guards. He also doesn't have great lateral quickness by NBA guard standards.
Turns out Baker has more than enough lateral quickness for the NBA!!! So once his shot comes around as it should he's going to be a very nice player for this team off the bench. The Knicks aren't worried that somehow Baker has lost the ability to shoot!
This is fluff. Baker last 2 years in college he was a 42% shooter. There has never been anything about him that says he's a good offensive player. He was utterly average at the college level and well below at the NBA level. Baker certainly does not "do everything well" on offense. He's high effort and low skill. I get he is likable, but he's an undrafted rookie with a well below average NBA skill set. His numbers seem to back that up.
Season School Conf ORtg DRtg 2012-13 Wichita State 121.3 99.5 2013-14 Wichita State 125.2 92.7 2014-15 Wichita State 123.3 92.7 2015-16 Wichita State 116.0 87.9 Career Wichita State 121.3 92.1
nixluva wrote:Just so we're clear here, Baker has offensive ability. He's trying to adjust to the NBA level as a PG which he hasn't technically been. He's learned the Triangle fairly quickly and if his shots were dropping as they should he'd be doing great. Baker is long for his height and tho he's not explosive he is strong. He does just about everything at a good level and shooting was NEVER his problem.
Shooting Guard Wichita State, Sr., 23 6'4, 220 pounds 6'9.75 wingspan, 35.5'' max vert
Summary: Ron Baker is a solid outside shooter with a high basketball IQ. He went from a virtually unknown walk-on to one of the best college players in the country in just a few short years. The biggest turn-off for NBA teams will be his age; at 23, Baker is one of the oldest players in the draft. For reference, Baker is three months older than Wizards guard Bradley Beal, who is about to enter his fifth NBA season. In an era where NBA teams tend to target 18-20 year-olds who they can develop for the first few years of their career, Baker's age definitely does not do him any favors.
Offensive Breakdown: He does everything well, but does not have any singular standout skill that jumps off the page. His greatest strength is his ability to knock down mid- to long-range jump shots. Baker is also a solid distributor with one of the lowest turnover rates of any guard in the nation throughout his career. If he can continue to improve his three-point shooting, he could potentially find a role as an instant offense guy coming off the bench for an NBA team.
Defensive Breakdown: Baker was a decent on-ball defender in college, but that should be taken with a grain of salt when you compare the talent levels of the Missouri Valley to the players he will be asked to guard in the NBA. He is undersized for a shooting guard, and he will often give up 4-6 inches on opposing shooting guards. He also doesn't have great lateral quickness by NBA guard standards.
Turns out Baker has more than enough lateral quickness for the NBA!!! So once his shot comes around as it should he's going to be a very nice player for this team off the bench. The Knicks aren't worried that somehow Baker has lost the ability to shoot!
This is fluff. Baker last 2 years in college he was a 42% shooter. There has never been anything about him that says he's a good offensive player. He was utterly average at the college level and well below at the NBA level. Baker certainly does not "do everything well" on offense. He's high effort and low skill. I get he is likable, but he's an undrafted rookie with a well below average NBA skill set. His numbers seem to back that up.
Season School Conf ORtg DRtg 2012-13 Wichita State 121.3 99.5 2013-14 Wichita State 125.2 92.7 2014-15 Wichita State 123.3 92.7 2015-16 Wichita State 116.0 87.9 Career Wichita State 121.3 92.1
what did you just show me? That Baker's shooting dropped for 3 years in a row in college?
nixluva@ 3/9/2017 12:35 PM
fishmike wrote:
nixluva wrote:
fishmike wrote:
nixluva wrote:Just so we're clear here, Baker has offensive ability. He's trying to adjust to the NBA level as a PG which he hasn't technically been. He's learned the Triangle fairly quickly and if his shots were dropping as they should he'd be doing great. Baker is long for his height and tho he's not explosive he is strong. He does just about everything at a good level and shooting was NEVER his problem.
Shooting Guard Wichita State, Sr., 23 6'4, 220 pounds 6'9.75 wingspan, 35.5'' max vert
Summary: Ron Baker is a solid outside shooter with a high basketball IQ. He went from a virtually unknown walk-on to one of the best college players in the country in just a few short years. The biggest turn-off for NBA teams will be his age; at 23, Baker is one of the oldest players in the draft. For reference, Baker is three months older than Wizards guard Bradley Beal, who is about to enter his fifth NBA season. In an era where NBA teams tend to target 18-20 year-olds who they can develop for the first few years of their career, Baker's age definitely does not do him any favors.
Offensive Breakdown: He does everything well, but does not have any singular standout skill that jumps off the page. His greatest strength is his ability to knock down mid- to long-range jump shots. Baker is also a solid distributor with one of the lowest turnover rates of any guard in the nation throughout his career. If he can continue to improve his three-point shooting, he could potentially find a role as an instant offense guy coming off the bench for an NBA team.
Defensive Breakdown: Baker was a decent on-ball defender in college, but that should be taken with a grain of salt when you compare the talent levels of the Missouri Valley to the players he will be asked to guard in the NBA. He is undersized for a shooting guard, and he will often give up 4-6 inches on opposing shooting guards. He also doesn't have great lateral quickness by NBA guard standards.
Turns out Baker has more than enough lateral quickness for the NBA!!! So once his shot comes around as it should he's going to be a very nice player for this team off the bench. The Knicks aren't worried that somehow Baker has lost the ability to shoot!
This is fluff. Baker last 2 years in college he was a 42% shooter. There has never been anything about him that says he's a good offensive player. He was utterly average at the college level and well below at the NBA level. Baker certainly does not "do everything well" on offense. He's high effort and low skill. I get he is likable, but he's an undrafted rookie with a well below average NBA skill set. His numbers seem to back that up.
Season School Conf ORtg DRtg 2012-13 Wichita State 121.3 99.5 2013-14 Wichita State 125.2 92.7 2014-15 Wichita State 123.3 92.7 2015-16 Wichita State 116.0 87.9 Career Wichita State 121.3 92.1
what did you just show me? That Baker's shooting dropped for 3 years in a row in college?
You seem to miss the point. Good defender. Decent shooter. Now I'm not saying he is some star but he certainly can be a solid reserve guard and he CAN shoot better than he has this year. No one should expect Baker to light the world on fire but he deserves more than the small sample he's had so far to just assume he won't get his offense going.
IMO Baker is a guy who could be like Dellvadova. Teams can use those kinds of players that give MAX EFFORT and play TEAM BALL. Time will tell what he does at this level.
fishmike@ 3/9/2017 1:06 PM
nixluva wrote:
fishmike wrote:
nixluva wrote:
fishmike wrote:
nixluva wrote:Just so we're clear here, Baker has offensive ability. He's trying to adjust to the NBA level as a PG which he hasn't technically been. He's learned the Triangle fairly quickly and if his shots were dropping as they should he'd be doing great. Baker is long for his height and tho he's not explosive he is strong. He does just about everything at a good level and shooting was NEVER his problem.
Shooting Guard Wichita State, Sr., 23 6'4, 220 pounds 6'9.75 wingspan, 35.5'' max vert
Summary: Ron Baker is a solid outside shooter with a high basketball IQ. He went from a virtually unknown walk-on to one of the best college players in the country in just a few short years. The biggest turn-off for NBA teams will be his age; at 23, Baker is one of the oldest players in the draft. For reference, Baker is three months older than Wizards guard Bradley Beal, who is about to enter his fifth NBA season. In an era where NBA teams tend to target 18-20 year-olds who they can develop for the first few years of their career, Baker's age definitely does not do him any favors.
Offensive Breakdown: He does everything well, but does not have any singular standout skill that jumps off the page. His greatest strength is his ability to knock down mid- to long-range jump shots. Baker is also a solid distributor with one of the lowest turnover rates of any guard in the nation throughout his career. If he can continue to improve his three-point shooting, he could potentially find a role as an instant offense guy coming off the bench for an NBA team.
Defensive Breakdown: Baker was a decent on-ball defender in college, but that should be taken with a grain of salt when you compare the talent levels of the Missouri Valley to the players he will be asked to guard in the NBA. He is undersized for a shooting guard, and he will often give up 4-6 inches on opposing shooting guards. He also doesn't have great lateral quickness by NBA guard standards.
Turns out Baker has more than enough lateral quickness for the NBA!!! So once his shot comes around as it should he's going to be a very nice player for this team off the bench. The Knicks aren't worried that somehow Baker has lost the ability to shoot!
This is fluff. Baker last 2 years in college he was a 42% shooter. There has never been anything about him that says he's a good offensive player. He was utterly average at the college level and well below at the NBA level. Baker certainly does not "do everything well" on offense. He's high effort and low skill. I get he is likable, but he's an undrafted rookie with a well below average NBA skill set. His numbers seem to back that up.
Season School Conf ORtg DRtg 2012-13 Wichita State 121.3 99.5 2013-14 Wichita State 125.2 92.7 2014-15 Wichita State 123.3 92.7 2015-16 Wichita State 116.0 87.9 Career Wichita State 121.3 92.1
what did you just show me? That Baker's shooting dropped for 3 years in a row in college?
You seem to miss the point. Good defender. Decent shooter. Now I'm not saying he is some star but he certainly can be a solid reserve guard and he CAN shoot better than he has this year. No one should expect Baker to light the world on fire but he deserves more than the small sample he's had so far to just assume he won't get his offense going.
IMO Baker is a guy who could be like Dellvadova. Teams can use those kinds of players that give MAX EFFORT and play TEAM BALL. Time will tell what he does at this level.
I think I am getting the point just fine. His last 2 years of college his shooting %s went DOWN. That trend has continued in the NBA. We have a 3+ year sample size that tells us Baker isnt going to be a good offensive player. Also lets not confuse playing hard on D with being an elite defender. Baker's effort is there, but his impact is not very high. Can Baker fill a role or a need short term? That is why he's here. He's a warm body holding a spot.
What would it take for Baker to be an effective rotation player? He's either got to shoot much better or facilitate much better. Which one of those that we havent seen in a few years is going to pop now that he's in the NBA?
I applaud Phil for looking at this talent pool. I will be thrilled to be wrong about Baker, but your argument that he's good isnt based on anything that has actually happened in this reality. He actually had some buzz after his sophomore season and did nothing to stand out or help himself as senior classman. I like that we are looking at guys like Baker instead of guys like Moochie Norris, but lets keep it in perspective.
nixluva@ 3/9/2017 1:18 PM
fishmike wrote:
nixluva wrote:
fishmike wrote:
nixluva wrote:
fishmike wrote:
nixluva wrote:Just so we're clear here, Baker has offensive ability. He's trying to adjust to the NBA level as a PG which he hasn't technically been. He's learned the Triangle fairly quickly and if his shots were dropping as they should he'd be doing great. Baker is long for his height and tho he's not explosive he is strong. He does just about everything at a good level and shooting was NEVER his problem.
Shooting Guard Wichita State, Sr., 23 6'4, 220 pounds 6'9.75 wingspan, 35.5'' max vert
Summary: Ron Baker is a solid outside shooter with a high basketball IQ. He went from a virtually unknown walk-on to one of the best college players in the country in just a few short years. The biggest turn-off for NBA teams will be his age; at 23, Baker is one of the oldest players in the draft. For reference, Baker is three months older than Wizards guard Bradley Beal, who is about to enter his fifth NBA season. In an era where NBA teams tend to target 18-20 year-olds who they can develop for the first few years of their career, Baker's age definitely does not do him any favors.
Offensive Breakdown: He does everything well, but does not have any singular standout skill that jumps off the page. His greatest strength is his ability to knock down mid- to long-range jump shots. Baker is also a solid distributor with one of the lowest turnover rates of any guard in the nation throughout his career. If he can continue to improve his three-point shooting, he could potentially find a role as an instant offense guy coming off the bench for an NBA team.
Defensive Breakdown: Baker was a decent on-ball defender in college, but that should be taken with a grain of salt when you compare the talent levels of the Missouri Valley to the players he will be asked to guard in the NBA. He is undersized for a shooting guard, and he will often give up 4-6 inches on opposing shooting guards. He also doesn't have great lateral quickness by NBA guard standards.
Turns out Baker has more than enough lateral quickness for the NBA!!! So once his shot comes around as it should he's going to be a very nice player for this team off the bench. The Knicks aren't worried that somehow Baker has lost the ability to shoot!
This is fluff. Baker last 2 years in college he was a 42% shooter. There has never been anything about him that says he's a good offensive player. He was utterly average at the college level and well below at the NBA level. Baker certainly does not "do everything well" on offense. He's high effort and low skill. I get he is likable, but he's an undrafted rookie with a well below average NBA skill set. His numbers seem to back that up.
Season School Conf ORtg DRtg 2012-13 Wichita State 121.3 99.5 2013-14 Wichita State 125.2 92.7 2014-15 Wichita State 123.3 92.7 2015-16 Wichita State 116.0 87.9 Career Wichita State 121.3 92.1
what did you just show me? That Baker's shooting dropped for 3 years in a row in college?
You seem to miss the point. Good defender. Decent shooter. Now I'm not saying he is some star but he certainly can be a solid reserve guard and he CAN shoot better than he has this year. No one should expect Baker to light the world on fire but he deserves more than the small sample he's had so far to just assume he won't get his offense going.
IMO Baker is a guy who could be like Dellvadova. Teams can use those kinds of players that give MAX EFFORT and play TEAM BALL. Time will tell what he does at this level.
I think I am getting the point just fine. His last 2 years of college his shooting %s went DOWN. That trend has continued in the NBA. We have a 3+ year sample size that tells us Baker isnt going to be a good offensive player. Also lets not confuse playing hard on D with being an elite defender. Baker's effort is there, but his impact is not very high. Can Baker fill a role or a need short term? That is why he's here. He's a warm body holding a spot.
What would it take for Baker to be an effective rotation player? He's either got to shoot much better or facilitate much better. Which one of those that we havent seen in a few years is going to pop now that he's in the NBA?
I applaud Phil for looking at this talent pool. I will be thrilled to be wrong about Baker, but your argument that he's good isnt based on anything that has actually happened in this reality. He actually had some buzz after his sophomore season and did nothing to stand out or help himself as senior classman. I like that we are looking at guys like Baker instead of guys like Moochie Norris, but lets keep it in perspective.
Baker had ONE season where his 3pt shooting dipped slightly and really that is the area I expect him to have to improve. I think perhaps you're assuming that my statements are made in a vacuum. There's ALWAYS perspective in how I look at players. For an Undrafted rookie like Baker I'm not grading him like a guy that has a higher upside. He's headed towards being a role player and an example is LT. He showed very little aptitude for doing what he has since joining the Knicks but he improved with hard work.
