Knicks · Begley: PJax teaching some Knicks guards the triangle yesterday (page 3)

The NYPost and NYDailyNew have some of you sooooo jaded. Anything and everything the Knicks do is to undermined someone, especially Phil undermining either Melo or Jeff.

The Knicks second unit turning a 14 point deficit into a tie game... AHHHH the Knicks are undermining Melo! LOOK AT HIS MINUTES, THEY ARE SITTING HIM TOO LONG!!! (in a game where he played 35 minutes). This is something the the NY Daily News wrote about... while also admitting it was the smart thing to do.

It's insane.

BTW:
http://www.newsday.com/sports/basketball...

Knicks coach Jeff Hornacek said Jackson will “pop out there” and show the players different things “once a month.” But Hornacek said this was a pre-planned session with all the Knicks guards, including Derrick Rose, to look for different reads within the triangle.

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:this is like when I tell my wife what to cook for dinner- she says, you want that, you cook it.

I'm not convinced Jeff wants to coach the triangle.

Yes, he took the job. And yes, being around Phil is probably great.

Could Picasso teach me to paint like Picasso? Maybe.

But would I be a better painter if I tried to paint the way I wanted to?

And yes, Phil should be out watching college B Ball - in person because while the scouts can suggest, the choice is his and he better pick someone he is happy with so we're not trading them for the next Derrick Rose in 2 years.

No its like your wife buying you groceries to cook. You have to cook with what she bought you. Now she also happens to be a world class chef, so every now and then she may mention best practices. You can do it your way and that would be probably fine, but if you want to be sure not to burn the sauce maybe you ask for a little help. If you ask for help or accept her unsolicited help it doesnt mean you have been interfered with or undermined.

if she buys the groceries, then she can cook it!

I'm good at frying eggs & bacon. I make breakfast. And I grill.

Bring me chicken breast or ask me to do pasta - no can do.

“Honestly, [it was] amazing,” Vujacic said. “It was a really good session. We were told the right things, we were taught the right way and it felt good.

“We’re talking about Phil. His record speaks for itself. Just to have him there and seeing the young guys and the other guys just being amazed by it. The way he talked to them, for me I’ve seen that before.

“You can take someone trying to teach you something for years, months, whatever and then you have someone like that, that in half an hour explains things that might be a spaceship to other people. So it was amazing.”

Never seen a player say the offense is not being taught the right way by the coach before. The above is a direct quote from the same article you just posted above Martin. Not sure what he is saying about spaceships, but it sounds like Phil speak to me. Maybe he is trying to say that only Phil can explain the offense so it doesn't seem as complicated as teaching piloting a spaceship...ya'know, with all that math junk and stuff?

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:PHIL LEARNED THE TRIANGLE FROM TEX!!! TEX WAS COACHING THE OFFENSE WHILE PHIL RAN THE TEAM! This is not a big deal. Krause already had Tex on his Bulls staff and believed in him. Phil talked basketball with Tex and came to respect his BB Knowledge and chose to run Tex's Triangle offense which Phil was not a master of at first. Jeff is quite capable of learning the Triangle inside and out like Phil eventually did.

It's funny you mention Krause, a guy who hates Phil Jackson and thinks he's a fraud who took too much credit for what Krause assembled in Chicago.

Krause actually respects Phil tho. He was the one that 1st saw the potential in Phil to be a coach. Tex was the one who ran the offense in practice and Phil absorbed over the years and became a Master of the Triangle. There's nothing wrong with a MASTER teaching his coaches and team about the game. It's blatantly obvious that there are many more levels that these players can take their understanding of the game and how to manipulate teams in the Triangle.

Jeff still has the task of modernizing how the Triangle is implemented as Phil requested. That has to do with greater spacing, the pace of the game and adding in more PnR etc. Coming in once in awhile and enhancing player's understanding is not a bad thing.

Sasha's interview.
http://www.msgnetworks.com/videos/vujaci...

nixluva wrote:PHIL LEARNED THE TRIANGLE FROM TEX!!! TEX WAS COACHING THE OFFENSE WHILE PHIL RAN THE TEAM! This is not a big deal. Krause already had Tex on his Bulls staff and believed in him. Phil talked basketball with Tex and came to respect his BB Knowledge and chose to run Tex's Triangle offense which Phil was not a master of at first. Jeff is quite capable of learning the Triangle inside and out like Phil eventually did.

Was Tex also the president?

Ask yourself this, when Riley came form the lakers, did he try to turn the knicks into the showtime lakers. No he adjusted to his roster and made them the toughest team in the league.

phil can coach, He is not suited to be in the position he is in. He tries and fools everyone about his health being the #1 reason, but it's just a small part of it. It's the fact that although young players respect what he's done, he can't relate to them, that's why he picks young coaches instead of establish Ones.

KOBE SAID, IM PLAYING WITH SOME REALLY HIGH IQ PLAYERS and that makes my JOB EASIER. We don't even have a HIGH IQ coach, let alone players. Ya'll give phil wayyyy too much credit as if his system is bullet proof. The same peopel who said MDA system was a gimmick

Take a look at a small segment of this vid at the 6:11 mark.

listen to kobe, just his leadership, and his through-the fckg roof-IQ, Listen to phil.

Melo and Rose IQ would be next level if phil was coaching, Those 2 guys want to win, but just don't know how, creatures of habit just like phil. Jh maybe cool with Phil chiming in and running some of his system because he's a young cacch.

The Young guys are going to be ok with that, they are going to play hard because they are trying to establish themselves, and stay in the league, but you can't win consistent with them. Veterans are not going to be as receptive to presidents undermining the coach, they know jordan and kobe, shaq and PIP...Its a different perception, and if you guys aren't recognizing how foolish that looks, you are just Homers and will back any management dolan hires.

Anything you say about dolan is a reflection on the current state of the knicks, from the president, GM, Coach and player, it's trickle down effect

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:So if Randle Baker Lee and guys like that are likely back next year know the offense well it's a bad thing?

I guess it depends on your perspective. Should Jeff be coaching the team without interference? Is Rambis coaching the triangle in practice and the defense not enough for Phil? Should Phil be scouting college players in March instead of teaching the triangle when he has a coach in place and he put his best friend on the staff as the top assistant?

How many GMs have 11 rings? Interference? What if JH asked? What if Phil just wanted to be around his players? What is the point in having a BB guy like Phil Jackson if any time he interacts with players people cry "interference???"

I guess if Phil is doing it it must be a bad thing.

Phil is undermining the coach he hired and forcing an outdated system on players who don't want to play it.

What is with the undying support of Phil Jackson?

Who cares about 11 rings? He has 0 as GM. If he wants to coach he should fire Hornacek and take over. These little practice sessions accomplish nothing.

martin wrote:The NYPost and NYDailyNew have some of you sooooo jaded. Anything and everything the Knicks do is to undermined someone, especially Phil undermining either Melo or Jeff.

The Knicks second unit turning a 14 point deficit into a tie game... AHHHH the Knicks are undermining Melo! LOOK AT HIS MINUTES, THEY ARE SITTING HIM TOO LONG!!! (in a game where he played 35 minutes). This is something the the NY Daily News wrote about... while also admitting it was the smart thing to do.

It's insane.

Phil IS undermining his head coach, as he undermined Fisher before and then fired him for not listening to him more.

Phil wants to coach without being the coach. You can't have you cake and eat it too.

Also, nobody wants to play the Triangle.

JamesKPolk wrote:

martin wrote:The NYPost and NYDailyNew have some of you sooooo jaded. Anything and everything the Knicks do is to undermined someone, especially Phil undermining either Melo or Jeff.

The Knicks second unit turning a 14 point deficit into a tie game... AHHHH the Knicks are undermining Melo! LOOK AT HIS MINUTES, THEY ARE SITTING HIM TOO LONG!!! (in a game where he played 35 minutes). This is something the the NY Daily News wrote about... while also admitting it was the smart thing to do.

It's insane.

Phil IS undermining his head coach, as he undermined Fisher before and then fired him for not listening to him more.

Phil wants to coach without being the coach. You can't have you cake and eat it too.

Also, nobody wants to play the Triangle.

KP loves the Triangle!
Chasson Randle ran Triangle in College!
Willy, CLee, Noah, LT, KOQ, Holiday, Baker, Sasha all seem comfortable in the Triangle!
The D League team is running Triangle.

Seems to me that there isn't much of a problem with the majority of the organization.

I so love how this works across the board with the Knicks these days from the fans and media.

Fans and Media: Dolan get your hands out of operations.

Dolan: No.

Fans and Media; we gonna protest.

Dolan: Ok Here's Phil Jackson.

Fans and Media: Thank goodness. A basketball guy.

......
(Melo gets no trade clause)Fans and Media: This is Dolan getting involved. STOP GETTING INVOLVED!

Dolan: I'm not involved.

Fans and Media: Phil sucks. Dolan needs to get involved.

Dolan: This is Phil's team. I'm not involved. Ask Phil.

Fans and Media:How can you not be involved? Franchise Malpractice!

.........Same song with Jackson......

Fans and Media: You need to coach.

Jax: No.

Fans and Media: You. Coach.

Jax: No Im here to support if i need to but I won't coach.

Fans and Media: You want the triangle you teach it.

Jax:I talk to my coaches.

....Jax shows up to try and teach triangle in a preplanned 30 minute session....

Fans and Media: He's undermining the coach! He always gets involved! The coach is a puppet!

This getting so old. I listen to 90% sports radio and this is all I here so far (Michael Kay, Hahn and Humpty). And I love these shows but the need to just transparently rile people up by going contrary to whatever the Knicks do is getting old. And this is nothing compared to podcasts like NBA today and NBA Lockdown. Been seriously thinking of switching off the dial.

This is why people say you cant rebuild in NY. I'm a 90's Knicks guy to the bone but the league is not built that way anymore. Sure you can defend but you are not defending like the Knicks or Heat or Pacers did then. You are defending like the Warriors do now. The league has changed the rules to benefit the offense that is whe we hear about so many offensive systems now and no defensive strategies. I get Phil has had his time here, he also made his mistakes. Personally he never ahould have let Kerr out of that verbal commitment. But my point is not everything these guys are doing is wrong. Its just constantly portrayed that way.

Sorry for the rant. All this negativity no matter what this team does-even when they do what the moral majority demands it gets turned on its freaking ear-is getting old to me.

#RantOver

joec32033 wrote:I so love how this works across the board with the Knicks these days from the fans and media.

Fans and Media: Dolan get your hands out of operations.

Dolan: No.

Fans and Media; we gonna protest.

Dolan: Ok Here's Phil Jackson.

Fans and Media: Thank goodness. A basketball guy.

......
(Melo gets no trade clause)Fans and Media: This is Dolan getting involved. STOP GETTING INVOLVED!

Dolan: I'm not involved.

Fans and Media: Phil sucks. Dolan needs to get involved.

Dolan: This is Phil's team. I'm not involved. Ask Phil.

Fans and Media:How can you not be involved? Franchise Malpractice!

.........Same song with Jackson......

Fans and Media: You need to coach.

Jax: No.

Fans and Media: You. Coach.

Jax: No Im here to support if i need to but I won't coach.

Fans and Media: You want the triangle you teach it.

Jax:I talk to my coaches.

....Jax shows up to try and teach triangle in a preplanned 30 minute session....

Fans and Media: He's undermining the coach! He always gets involved! The coach is a puppet!

This getting so old. I listen to 90% sports radio and this is all I here so far (Michael Kay, Hahn and Humpty). And I love these shows but the need to just transparently rile people up by going contrary to whatever the Knicks do is getting old. And this is nothing compared to podcasts like NBA today and NBA Lockdown. Been seriously thinking of switching off the dial.

This is why people say you cant rebuild in NY. I'm a 90's Knicks guy to the bone but the league is not built that way anymore. Sure you can defend but you are not defending like the Knicks or Heat or Pacers did then. You are defending like the Warriors do now. The league has changed the rules to benefit the offense that is whe we hear about so many offensive systems now and no defensive strategies. I get Phil has had his time here, he also made his mistakes. Personally he never ahould have let Kerr out of that verbal commitment. But my point is not everything these guys are doing is wrong. Its just constantly portrayed that way.

Sorry for the rant. All this negativity no matter what this team does-even when they do what the moral majority demands it gets turned on its freaking ear-is getting old to me.

#RantOver

GREAT POST!

martin wrote:BTW:
http://www.newsday.com/sports/basketball...

Knicks coach Jeff Hornacek said Jackson will “pop out there” and show the players different things “once a month.” But Hornacek said this was a pre-planned session with all the Knicks guards, including Derrick Rose, to look for different reads within the triangle.

I tried to find the actual interview with Hornacek. He seems to be tiring of answering triangle/Phil questions but seeing and hearing it as opposed to reading with someone sharing their opinion on his statement would be better.

The coach said he welcomes the input, but he bristled when he was asked about Jackson “installing” things in the offense.
“You keep using the word install,” Hornacek said. “Nobody installed anything yesterday. Showed a couple of options.

martin wrote:The NYPost and NYDailyNew have some of you sooooo jaded. Anything and everything the Knicks do is to undermined someone, especially Phil undermining either Melo or Jeff.

The Knicks second unit turning a 14 point deficit into a tie game... AHHHH the Knicks are undermining Melo! LOOK AT HIS MINUTES, THEY ARE SITTING HIM TOO LONG!!! (in a game where he played 35 minutes). This is something the the NY Daily News wrote about... while also admitting it was the smart thing to do.

It's insane.

Yeah, right. It's the newspapers that are jading us. Not the team. The Knicks are actually 50-15 and the papers say the Knicks are 26-39. Typical made up lies only the real fans can see through. If only Knicks fans would stop reading the Post and the Daily News and WATCH THE GAMES. THEN THEY WOULD SEE NOTHING IS WRONG.

crzymdups wrote:

martin wrote:The NYPost and NYDailyNew have some of you sooooo jaded. Anything and everything the Knicks do is to undermined someone, especially Phil undermining either Melo or Jeff.

The Knicks second unit turning a 14 point deficit into a tie game... AHHHH the Knicks are undermining Melo! LOOK AT HIS MINUTES, THEY ARE SITTING HIM TOO LONG!!! (in a game where he played 35 minutes). This is something the the NY Daily News wrote about... while also admitting it was the smart thing to do.

It's insane.

Yeah, right. It's the newspapers that are jading us. Not the team. The Knicks are actually 50-15 and the papers say the Knicks are 26-39. Typical made up lies only the real fans can see through. If only Knicks fans would stop reading the Post and the Daily News and WATCH THE GAMES. THEN THEY WOULD SEE NOTHING IS WRONG.

No they would see the team does have some positive things going on. The franchise is very much involved in developing young talent like Willy and Nikola Jovanovic in the DL. The losing sucks but there's more going on besides the losing.

crzymdups wrote:

martin wrote:The NYPost and NYDailyNew have some of you sooooo jaded. Anything and everything the Knicks do is to undermined someone, especially Phil undermining either Melo or Jeff.

The Knicks second unit turning a 14 point deficit into a tie game... AHHHH the Knicks are undermining Melo! LOOK AT HIS MINUTES, THEY ARE SITTING HIM TOO LONG!!! (in a game where he played 35 minutes). This is something the the NY Daily News wrote about... while also admitting it was the smart thing to do.

It's insane.

Yeah, right. It's the newspapers that are jading us. Not the team. The Knicks are actually 50-15 and the papers say the Knicks are 26-39. Typical made up lies only the real fans can see through. If only Knicks fans would stop reading the Post and the Daily News and WATCH THE GAMES. THEN THEY WOULD SEE NOTHING IS WRONG.

The daily news and the post suck. I think most posters here understand that and try to use other sources and watch actual interviews before forming an opinion. I know that is my approach. I just wish Phil would work on being a gm. He was a great coach and doesn't have many peers but that isn't his role now. I listen to a lot of podcasts. The Sloan Analytics Conference took place recently and a bunch of gms that were there, Morey, Griffen, and Meyers did podcasts with Zach Lowe. I believe I heard a podcast with Masai while he was there but I don't remember the host or might have been a radio interview. Phil doesn't have to do a podcast. He doesn't even have to attend but I am not aware of any representation at the conference from the KNicks. It is the type of event that a gm or someone from the team attends. Most nba teams were represented there. Gms are scouting and preparing for the draft in March. Phil coaching the triangle for a day isn't awful and he certainly has more knowledge about basketball than most of the planet. Phil was a great coach but he hasn't been a great gm/pres. Three years in and the Knicks are a long way from the playoffs. I believe Phil Working on making the Knicks better in his role as the gm/pres and becoming a better gm/pres is a lot more important than an hour of triangle instruction with a quarter of the season left for a roster that probably has a lot of turnover again.

CrushAlot wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

martin wrote:The NYPost and NYDailyNew have some of you sooooo jaded. Anything and everything the Knicks do is to undermined someone, especially Phil undermining either Melo or Jeff.

The Knicks second unit turning a 14 point deficit into a tie game... AHHHH the Knicks are undermining Melo! LOOK AT HIS MINUTES, THEY ARE SITTING HIM TOO LONG!!! (in a game where he played 35 minutes). This is something the the NY Daily News wrote about... while also admitting it was the smart thing to do.

It's insane.

Yeah, right. It's the newspapers that are jading us. Not the team. The Knicks are actually 50-15 and the papers say the Knicks are 26-39. Typical made up lies only the real fans can see through. If only Knicks fans would stop reading the Post and the Daily News and WATCH THE GAMES. THEN THEY WOULD SEE NOTHING IS WRONG.

The daily news and the post suck. I think most posters here understand that and try to use other sources and watch actual interviews before forming an opinion. I know that is my approach. I just wish Phil would work on being a gm. He was a great coach and doesn't have many peers but that isn't his role now. I listen to a lot of podcasts. The Sloan Analytics Conference took place recently and a bunch of gms that were there, Morey, Griffen, and Meyers did podcasts with Zach Lowe. I believe I heard a podcast with Masai while he was there but I don't remember the host or might have been a radio interview. Phil doesn't have to do a podcast. He doesn't even have to attend but I am not aware of any representation at the conference from the KNicks. It is the type of event that a gm or someone from the team attends. Most nba teams were represented there. Gms are scouting and preparing for the draft in March. Phil coaching the triangle for a day isn't awful and he certainly has more knowledge about basketball than most of the planet. Phil was a great coach but he hasn't been a great gm/pres. Three years in and the Knicks are a long way from the playoffs. I believe Phil Working on making the Knicks better in his role as the gm/pres and becoming a better gm/pres is a lot more important than an hour of triangle instruction with a quarter of the season left for a roster that probably has a lot of turnover again.

Phil is here to teach the world the triangle, he could careless about linking up with other presidents and GM around the league. His circle is like 4 guys, you already know this.

Look who he's made deals with, A Dallas team that wanted TYSON back really bad, gift wrap shump and Jr to the cavs, and well, the bulls, the team he brought 6 championships to.
I seriously doubt that was Mills

This is from 2014 just before Phil was hired.
http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2014/3...

Phil is not the DEALS guy on the Knicks. He stated from the jump that Mills is the GM and he would PRESIDE over the team and guide the overall plan. I actually think Phil was in a tough spot from day one cuz every team looks to try and rip the Knicks off!!! No teams ever deal with NY in a straight up manner. Phil can only change that by building this team up thru the Draft and Free Agency!!!

DEALS aren't going to be how this team gets built. We were never dealing from a position of strength. The team was losing when he got here and players were underperforming. You can't make great deals under those circumstances in NY.

In any event things will start to change as we can now build from within and not have to rely on DEALS to improve this team!!!

fishmike wrote:

martin wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:So if Randle Baker Lee and guys like that are likely back next year know the offense well it's a bad thing?

I guess it depends on your perspective. Should Jeff be coaching the team without interference? Is Rambis coaching the triangle in practice and the defense not enough for Phil? Should Phil be scouting college players in March instead of teaching the triangle when he has a coach in place and he put his best friend on the staff as the top assistant?

What if Jeff asked Phil? What if Phil and Jeff were talking and the topic came up and Phil volunteered?

One of the best fucking coaches of all time and people have a problem with him dipping into practice to run a few sets? What is wrong with this? Are we so jaded?

yea.. see my comment. Guy's one of the best coaches in pro sports ever and people are worried about him talking to the players. Yes.. its come to this.

Yea let Phil do his thing. Some folks make it sound like it is a bad thing. This is Phil, anyone seen this man coach before? He got any rings?

KNICKSdom wrote:

fishmike wrote:

martin wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:So if Randle Baker Lee and guys like that are likely back next year know the offense well it's a bad thing?

I guess it depends on your perspective. Should Jeff be coaching the team without interference? Is Rambis coaching the triangle in practice and the defense not enough for Phil? Should Phil be scouting college players in March instead of teaching the triangle when he has a coach in place and he put his best friend on the staff as the top assistant?

What if Jeff asked Phil? What if Phil and Jeff were talking and the topic came up and Phil volunteered?

One of the best fucking coaches of all time and people have a problem with him dipping into practice to run a few sets? What is wrong with this? Are we so jaded?

yea.. see my comment. Guy's one of the best coaches in pro sports ever and people are worried about him talking to the players. Yes.. its come to this.

Yea let Phil do his thing. Some folks make it sound like it is a bad thing. This is Phil, anyone seen this man coach before? He got any rings?

I have no problem with him coaching. I would like for him to work on his gm game. Seventy five wins in three years so far, three coaches and 46 players isn't a great start.