Knicks · Brandon Jennings: Carmelo Anthony trade talks 'took a toll' on Knicks.. (page 1)

"We were trying to learn an offense that guys didn't really know," ex-Knick Brandon Jennings said Thursday night, after his Wizards handed the Knicks their 49th loss of the season.

Jennings also offered another interesting theory as to why this Knicks team fell so far short of its goals this season: the Carmelo Anthony trade rumors fueled by Phil Jackson in late January and February.

"It definitely took a toll, I think, on the team. Because it wasn't even about basketball anymore, it was more about what was going on with Melo," Jennings said, adding that it was one of the wildest situations he has been in during his eight seasons in the league.

Jennings said it was "cool" playing with Anthony, but noted that Anthony had "a lot of pressure on him dealing with stuff with Phil."

The Knicks, at Jackson's behest, talked to at least three teams about trades involving Anthony before the trade deadline. Anthony has a no-trade clause and said the club never came to him with any specific offers. Jennings said the trade talks weren't fair to Anthony.

"I think it was just a roller coaster, an emotional roller coaster for him this year with everything he had to deal with, which isn't fair," Jennings said. "For a player to wake up every day and you're hearing trade rumors and you might be gone and this and that. It was like a two-week span where everybody was hitting your phone, (reading reports) about Melo leaving."

The Knicks might look to move Anthony this summer, and he has hinted that he'd be open to a trade at that point. Jennings left the team shortly after the trade deadline. He was waived as a mutual parting because the 28-year-old was looking for more minutes and a chance to make the playoffs. He ended up signing with the Wizards.

"I'm on my contract year so I didn't want to go home in April," Jennings said. "I have a chance to go to the playoffs, so I'm really excited about that."

Jennings: "I’m in the same position I was in New York... with a team that actually plays together."

Jennings says lots of things.

That being said you can see the agenda driven holfresh thinking. Chicken and the egg.. if Melo played better think there are any trade discussions? When you are the star player, the team isnt playing well and you are among career lows in points, rebs, assists and FG% you are going to hear trade trade rumors. Thats how pro sports works.

Hey holfresh... if you suck at your job your probably going to get fired. If you get fired its because you suck, not because the impending doom of being fired hurt your performance.

crzymdups wrote:Don't expect too many responses from Team Phil on this one.

fishmike wrote:Jennings: "Willy is the next Marc Gasol"

Jennings: "I’m in the same position I was in New York... with a team that actually plays together."

Jennings says lots of things.

That being said you can see the agenda driven holfresh thinking. Chicken and the egg.. if Melo played better think there are any trade discussions? When you are the star player, the team isnt playing well and you are among career lows in points, rebs, assists and FG% you are going to hear trade trade rumors. Thats how pro sports works.

Hey holfresh... if you suck at your job your probably going to get fired. If you get fired its because you suck, not because the impending doom of being fired hurt your performance.

You've quoted Jennings say Willy is Marc Gasol jr. like ten times on this board as proof that Willy was legit.

But now when Jennings says something you don't like "he may have an agenda".

Anyone who watched the team saw the effect Phil had on Melo as soon as Phil did his thing in mid-December. Team was 14-10, Knicks were in LA and Melo met with Phil. Melo was clearly pissed after the meeting. The team is 16-40 since the meeting. As the trade talk got louder and the Rosen columns dropped, so did the Knicks defensive effort.

For someone whose all about "trust" and "team play" and "culture" Phil sure doesn't hold himself to those standards. He's a massive failure on the culture front here. People here are rolling around with delight that the Knicks only lost by 3 to a Washington team that clearly gave zero fucks last night - because they knew they didn't have to be engaged to beat us. They could've beaten us by 40pts if they wanted to. When it was close in the final two minutes, Wall just calmly drove down the lane for a WIDE OPEN DUNK.

I saw some sad posts saying Baker outplayed John Wall. Dear god, it's sad. Wall was taking the night off, while on the court. It was an exhibition game for Washington.

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:Jennings: "Willy is the next Marc Gasol"

Jennings: "I’m in the same position I was in New York... with a team that actually plays together."

Jennings says lots of things.

That being said you can see the agenda driven holfresh thinking. Chicken and the egg.. if Melo played better think there are any trade discussions? When you are the star player, the team isnt playing well and you are among career lows in points, rebs, assists and FG% you are going to hear trade trade rumors. Thats how pro sports works.

Hey holfresh... if you suck at your job your probably going to get fired. If you get fired its because you suck, not because the impending doom of being fired hurt your performance.

You've quoted Jennings say Willy is Marc Gasol jr. like ten times on this board as proof that Willy was legit.

But now when Jennings says something you don't like "he may have an agenda".

Anyone who watched the team saw the effect Phil had on Melo as soon as Phil did his thing in mid-December. Team was 14-10, Knicks were in LA and Melo met with Phil. Melo was clearly pissed after the meeting. The team is 16-40 since the meeting. As the trade talk got louder and the Rosen columns dropped, so did the Knicks defensive effort.

For someone whose all about "trust" and "team play" and "culture" Phil sure doesn't hold himself to those standards. He's a massive failure on the culture front here. People here are rolling around with delight that the Knicks only lost by 3 to a Washington team that clearly gave zero fucks last night - because they knew they didn't have to be engaged to beat us. They could've beaten us by 40pts if they wanted to. When it was close in the final two minutes, Wall just calmly drove down the lane for a WIDE OPEN DUNK.

I saw some sad posts saying Baker outplayed John Wall. Dear god, it's sad. Wall was taking the night off, while on the court. It was an exhibition game for Washington.

Phil camp. Thats me. Tent is up and the fire is on. Come have some 11 ring chili. It may be slow to cook but history shows its a good recipe. I think you have been eating a brand that has left a bad taste in your mouth. As for Phil if he keeps turning this thing over and drafting well while he figures out how to get the type of players in he wants to build around fine. Back into a rebuild? OK. Horrible Noah signing? Sure. Pump up the volume. Willing to be patient with a guy like Phil vs. a like Melo? Ill take Phil. Ive seen Melo's brand for 7 years. Im ready to let Phil fumble around until he finds the right mix.

So yea. Phil camp.

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:Jennings: "Willy is the next Marc Gasol"

Jennings: "I’m in the same position I was in New York... with a team that actually plays together."

Jennings says lots of things.

That being said you can see the agenda driven holfresh thinking. Chicken and the egg.. if Melo played better think there are any trade discussions? When you are the star player, the team isnt playing well and you are among career lows in points, rebs, assists and FG% you are going to hear trade trade rumors. Thats how pro sports works.

Hey holfresh... if you suck at your job your probably going to get fired. If you get fired its because you suck, not because the impending doom of being fired hurt your performance.

You've quoted Jennings say Willy is Marc Gasol jr. like ten times on this board as proof that Willy was legit.

But now when Jennings says something you don't like "he may have an agenda".

Anyone who watched the team saw the effect Phil had on Melo as soon as Phil did his thing in mid-December. Team was 14-10, Knicks were in LA and Melo met with Phil. Melo was clearly pissed after the meeting. The team is 16-40 since the meeting. As the trade talk got louder and the Rosen columns dropped, so did the Knicks defensive effort.

For someone whose all about "trust" and "team play" and "culture" Phil sure doesn't hold himself to those standards. He's a massive failure on the culture front here. People here are rolling around with delight that the Knicks only lost by 3 to a Washington team that clearly gave zero fucks last night - because they knew they didn't have to be engaged to beat us. They could've beaten us by 40pts if they wanted to. When it was close in the final two minutes, Wall just calmly drove down the lane for a WIDE OPEN DUNK.

I saw some sad posts saying Baker outplayed John Wall. Dear god, it's sad. Wall was taking the night off, while on the court. It was an exhibition game for Washington.

exactly. Its just a quote. I dont think Willy is legit because Jennings says he is. I think he's legit for about 40 other reasons. I posted the Willy quote for the exact reason you called me out. Holfresh would never acknowledge Willy's potential. Phil draft someone good in round 2? Naaaaahhh... but if Jennings said Phil phucked things up lets start a thread.

Phil camp. Thats me. Tent is up and the fire is on. Come have some 11 ring chili. It may be slow to cook but history shows its a good recipe. I think you have been eating a brand that has left a bad taste in your mouth. As for Phil if he keeps turning this thing over and drafting well while he figures out how to get the type of players in he wants to build around fine. Back into a rebuild? OK. Horrible Noah signing? Sure. Pump up the volume. Willing to be patient with a guy like Phil vs. a like Melo? Ill take Phil. Ive seen Melo's brand for 7 years. Im ready to let Phil fumble around until he finds the right mix.

So yea. Phil camp.

Well, unless Phil has plans to re-up another five years and do this til he's 80, he's only got two years left before Dolan brings Isiah back. I'm sure the Knicks will be really great once Melo is gone! What have we won in the last 16 years with Melo anyway?

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:Jennings: "Willy is the next Marc Gasol"

Jennings: "I’m in the same position I was in New York... with a team that actually plays together."

Jennings says lots of things.

That being said you can see the agenda driven holfresh thinking. Chicken and the egg.. if Melo played better think there are any trade discussions? When you are the star player, the team isnt playing well and you are among career lows in points, rebs, assists and FG% you are going to hear trade trade rumors. Thats how pro sports works.

Hey holfresh... if you suck at your job your probably going to get fired. If you get fired its because you suck, not because the impending doom of being fired hurt your performance.

You've quoted Jennings say Willy is Marc Gasol jr. like ten times on this board as proof that Willy was legit.

But now when Jennings says something you don't like "he may have an agenda".

Anyone who watched the team saw the effect Phil had on Melo as soon as Phil did his thing in mid-December. Team was 14-10, Knicks were in LA and Melo met with Phil. Melo was clearly pissed after the meeting. The team is 16-40 since the meeting. As the trade talk got louder and the Rosen columns dropped, so did the Knicks defensive effort.

For someone whose all about "trust" and "team play" and "culture" Phil sure doesn't hold himself to those standards. He's a massive failure on the culture front here. People here are rolling around with delight that the Knicks only lost by 3 to a Washington team that clearly gave zero fucks last night - because they knew they didn't have to be engaged to beat us. They could've beaten us by 40pts if they wanted to. When it was close in the final two minutes, Wall just calmly drove down the lane for a WIDE OPEN DUNK.

I saw some sad posts saying Baker outplayed John Wall. Dear god, it's sad. Wall was taking the night off, while on the court. It was an exhibition game for Washington.

exactly. Its just a quote. I dont think Willy is legit because Jennings says he is. I think he's legit for about 40 other reasons. I posted the Willy quote for the exact reason you called me out. Holfresh would never acknowledge Willy's potential. Phil draft someone good in round 2? Naaaaahhh... but if Jennings said Phil phucked things up lets start a thread.

Phil camp. Thats me. Tent is up and the fire is on. Come have some 11 ring chili. It may be slow to cook but history shows its a good recipe. I think you have been eating a brand that has left a bad taste in your mouth. As for Phil if he keeps turning this thing over and drafting well while he figures out how to get the type of players in he wants to build around fine. Back into a rebuild? OK. Horrible Noah signing? Sure. Pump up the volume. Willing to be patient with a guy like Phil vs. a like Melo? Ill take Phil. Ive seen Melo's brand for 7 years. Im ready to let Phil fumble around until he finds the right mix.

So yea. Phil camp.

Well, unless Phil has plans to re-up another five years and do this til he's 80, he's only got two years left before Dolan brings Isiah back. I'm sure the Knicks will be really great once Melo is gone! What have we won in the last 16 years with Melo anyway?

Here's the thing... Phil doesnt trade picks and has drafted well. I fully recognize that the Phil era may simply be a house cleaning. 4-5 years of losing seasons, Melo drama, Dolan cussing at fans... but during that stretch of losing we build up a sustainable young base of quality talent. IF we do nothing but more of same while adding some high end draft talent than when Phil leaves we will have a flexible roster loaded with young talent. I can live with that. I see that as the downside. The upside is he gets the guys together that he envisioned when took this job, we play system basketball and are built around a foundation of young talent led by KP. I am willing to wait and see. Thats really all I am saying. The Phil camp response is tongue and cheek as for some reason some really need to establish factions.

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:Jennings: "Willy is the next Marc Gasol"

Jennings: "I’m in the same position I was in New York... with a team that actually plays together."

Jennings says lots of things.

That being said you can see the agenda driven holfresh thinking. Chicken and the egg.. if Melo played better think there are any trade discussions? When you are the star player, the team isnt playing well and you are among career lows in points, rebs, assists and FG% you are going to hear trade trade rumors. Thats how pro sports works.

Hey holfresh... if you suck at your job your probably going to get fired. If you get fired its because you suck, not because the impending doom of being fired hurt your performance.

You've quoted Jennings say Willy is Marc Gasol jr. like ten times on this board as proof that Willy was legit.

But now when Jennings says something you don't like "he may have an agenda".

Anyone who watched the team saw the effect Phil had on Melo as soon as Phil did his thing in mid-December. Team was 14-10, Knicks were in LA and Melo met with Phil. Melo was clearly pissed after the meeting. The team is 16-40 since the meeting. As the trade talk got louder and the Rosen columns dropped, so did the Knicks defensive effort.

For someone whose all about "trust" and "team play" and "culture" Phil sure doesn't hold himself to those standards. He's a massive failure on the culture front here. People here are rolling around with delight that the Knicks only lost by 3 to a Washington team that clearly gave zero fucks last night - because they knew they didn't have to be engaged to beat us. They could've beaten us by 40pts if they wanted to. When it was close in the final two minutes, Wall just calmly drove down the lane for a WIDE OPEN DUNK.

I saw some sad posts saying Baker outplayed John Wall. Dear god, it's sad. Wall was taking the night off, while on the court. It was an exhibition game for Washington.

exactly. Its just a quote. I dont think Willy is legit because Jennings says he is. I think he's legit for about 40 other reasons. I posted the Willy quote for the exact reason you called me out. Holfresh would never acknowledge Willy's potential. Phil draft someone good in round 2? Naaaaahhh... but if Jennings said Phil phucked things up lets start a thread.

Phil camp. Thats me. Tent is up and the fire is on. Come have some 11 ring chili. It may be slow to cook but history shows its a good recipe. I think you have been eating a brand that has left a bad taste in your mouth. As for Phil if he keeps turning this thing over and drafting well while he figures out how to get the type of players in he wants to build around fine. Back into a rebuild? OK. Horrible Noah signing? Sure. Pump up the volume. Willing to be patient with a guy like Phil vs. a like Melo? Ill take Phil. Ive seen Melo's brand for 7 years. Im ready to let Phil fumble around until he finds the right mix.

So yea. Phil camp.

Well, unless Phil has plans to re-up another five years and do this til he's 80, he's only got two years left before Dolan brings Isiah back. I'm sure the Knicks will be really great once Melo is gone! What have we won in the last 16 years with Melo anyway?

So you think the Knicks simply won't win without Melo??? PLEASE! It's not just about Melo not being here but also replacing him with a new talent. Hopefully someone who defends and plays team ball. If Melo stays he's going to have to reduce his role cuz he can't hold up for 82 anymore. He needs rest periodically.

BJ wasn't good here either. He STUNK defensively and tho he started the season well he couldn't sustain it. Minus BJ and Rose this team actually looks much better and should continue to improve as the younger players develop and we add new talent to the roster.

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:Jennings: "Willy is the next Marc Gasol"

Jennings: "I’m in the same position I was in New York... with a team that actually plays together."

Jennings says lots of things.

That being said you can see the agenda driven holfresh thinking. Chicken and the egg.. if Melo played better think there are any trade discussions? When you are the star player, the team isnt playing well and you are among career lows in points, rebs, assists and FG% you are going to hear trade trade rumors. Thats how pro sports works.

Hey holfresh... if you suck at your job your probably going to get fired. If you get fired its because you suck, not because the impending doom of being fired hurt your performance.

You've quoted Jennings say Willy is Marc Gasol jr. like ten times on this board as proof that Willy was legit.

But now when Jennings says something you don't like "he may have an agenda".

Anyone who watched the team saw the effect Phil had on Melo as soon as Phil did his thing in mid-December. Team was 14-10, Knicks were in LA and Melo met with Phil. Melo was clearly pissed after the meeting. The team is 16-40 since the meeting. As the trade talk got louder and the Rosen columns dropped, so did the Knicks defensive effort.

For someone whose all about "trust" and "team play" and "culture" Phil sure doesn't hold himself to those standards. He's a massive failure on the culture front here. People here are rolling around with delight that the Knicks only lost by 3 to a Washington team that clearly gave zero fucks last night - because they knew they didn't have to be engaged to beat us. They could've beaten us by 40pts if they wanted to. When it was close in the final two minutes, Wall just calmly drove down the lane for a WIDE OPEN DUNK.

I saw some sad posts saying Baker outplayed John Wall. Dear god, it's sad. Wall was taking the night off, while on the court. It was an exhibition game for Washington.

exactly. Its just a quote. I dont think Willy is legit because Jennings says he is. I think he's legit for about 40 other reasons. I posted the Willy quote for the exact reason you called me out. Holfresh would never acknowledge Willy's potential. Phil draft someone good in round 2? Naaaaahhh... but if Jennings said Phil phucked things up lets start a thread.

Phil camp. Thats me. Tent is up and the fire is on. Come have some 11 ring chili. It may be slow to cook but history shows its a good recipe. I think you have been eating a brand that has left a bad taste in your mouth. As for Phil if he keeps turning this thing over and drafting well while he figures out how to get the type of players in he wants to build around fine. Back into a rebuild? OK. Horrible Noah signing? Sure. Pump up the volume. Willing to be patient with a guy like Phil vs. a like Melo? Ill take Phil. Ive seen Melo's brand for 7 years. Im ready to let Phil fumble around until he finds the right mix.

So yea. Phil camp.

Well, unless Phil has plans to re-up another five years and do this til he's 80, he's only got two years left before Dolan brings Isiah back. I'm sure the Knicks will be really great once Melo is gone! What have we won in the last 16 years with Melo anyway?

it would be hard to imagine Isiah. I would assume if Phil doesnt re-up in some capacity that Mills would take it over, or possible Houston. Maybe they promote Gaines in some capacity to keep him around. Maybe Phil takes a 2-3 year extension.

Here's the thing... Phil doesnt trade picks and has drafted well. I fully recognize that the Phil era may simply be a house cleaning. 4-5 years of losing seasons, Melo drama, Dolan cussing at fans... but during that stretch of losing we build up a sustainable young base of quality talent. IF we do nothing but more of same while adding some high end draft talent than when Phil leaves we will have a flexible roster loaded with young talent. I can live with that. I see that as the downside. The upside is he gets the guys together that he envisioned when took this job, we play system basketball and are built around a foundation of young talent led by KP. I am willing to wait and see. Thats really all I am saying. The Phil camp response is tongue and cheek as for some reason some really need to establish factions.

What you guys fail to acknowledge again and again and again and again and again - PHIL COULD NOT TRADE THE PICKS.

The 2015 pick could NOT be traded until the draft day.

The 2017 pick COULD NOT BE TRADED until draft day.

The earliest pick he could ever trade was 2018 from the day he took the job. And guess what, he tried to offer it for at least Jeff Teague back in 2015, but Atlanta wasn't interested because it was too far out.

He drafted Jerian Grant and traded him less than a year later. Does that count as trading a pick? He traded his only young chip at the time, Tim Hardaway Jr to get Grant.

I guess I'm just a jaded old Knicks fan at this point, but I'm pretty tired of the entire dysfunctional organization being blamed on one player. At this point I really really really cannot fucking wait for Melo to be traded. Because guess what? Then Phil has no excuses left.

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:Jennings: "Willy is the next Marc Gasol"

Jennings: "I’m in the same position I was in New York... with a team that actually plays together."

Jennings says lots of things.

That being said you can see the agenda driven holfresh thinking. Chicken and the egg.. if Melo played better think there are any trade discussions? When you are the star player, the team isnt playing well and you are among career lows in points, rebs, assists and FG% you are going to hear trade trade rumors. Thats how pro sports works.

Hey holfresh... if you suck at your job your probably going to get fired. If you get fired its because you suck, not because the impending doom of being fired hurt your performance.

You've quoted Jennings say Willy is Marc Gasol jr. like ten times on this board as proof that Willy was legit.

But now when Jennings says something you don't like "he may have an agenda".

Anyone who watched the team saw the effect Phil had on Melo as soon as Phil did his thing in mid-December. Team was 14-10, Knicks were in LA and Melo met with Phil. Melo was clearly pissed after the meeting. The team is 16-40 since the meeting. As the trade talk got louder and the Rosen columns dropped, so did the Knicks defensive effort.

For someone whose all about "trust" and "team play" and "culture" Phil sure doesn't hold himself to those standards. He's a massive failure on the culture front here. People here are rolling around with delight that the Knicks only lost by 3 to a Washington team that clearly gave zero fucks last night - because they knew they didn't have to be engaged to beat us. They could've beaten us by 40pts if they wanted to. When it was close in the final two minutes, Wall just calmly drove down the lane for a WIDE OPEN DUNK.

I saw some sad posts saying Baker outplayed John Wall. Dear god, it's sad. Wall was taking the night off, while on the court. It was an exhibition game for Washington.

exactly. Its just a quote. I dont think Willy is legit because Jennings says he is. I think he's legit for about 40 other reasons. I posted the Willy quote for the exact reason you called me out. Holfresh would never acknowledge Willy's potential. Phil draft someone good in round 2? Naaaaahhh... but if Jennings said Phil phucked things up lets start a thread.

Phil camp. Thats me. Tent is up and the fire is on. Come have some 11 ring chili. It may be slow to cook but history shows its a good recipe. I think you have been eating a brand that has left a bad taste in your mouth. As for Phil if he keeps turning this thing over and drafting well while he figures out how to get the type of players in he wants to build around fine. Back into a rebuild? OK. Horrible Noah signing? Sure. Pump up the volume. Willing to be patient with a guy like Phil vs. a like Melo? Ill take Phil. Ive seen Melo's brand for 7 years. Im ready to let Phil fumble around until he finds the right mix.

So yea. Phil camp.

Well, unless Phil has plans to re-up another five years and do this til he's 80, he's only got two years left before Dolan brings Isiah back. I'm sure the Knicks will be really great once Melo is gone! What have we won in the last 16 years with Melo anyway?

it would be hard to imagine Isiah. I would assume if Phil doesnt re-up in some capacity that Mills would take it over, or possible Houston. Maybe they promote Gaines in some capacity to keep him around. Maybe Phil takes a 2-3 year extension.

Here's the thing... Phil doesnt trade picks and has drafted well. I fully recognize that the Phil era may simply be a house cleaning. 4-5 years of losing seasons, Melo drama, Dolan cussing at fans... but during that stretch of losing we build up a sustainable young base of quality talent. IF we do nothing but more of same while adding some high end draft talent than when Phil leaves we will have a flexible roster loaded with young talent. I can live with that. I see that as the downside. The upside is he gets the guys together that he envisioned when took this job, we play system basketball and are built around a foundation of young talent led by KP. I am willing to wait and see. Thats really all I am saying. The Phil camp response is tongue and cheek as for some reason some really need to establish factions.

What you guys fail to acknowledge again and again and again and again and again - PHIL COULD NOT TRADE THE PICKS.

The 2015 pick could NOT be traded until the draft day.

The 2017 pick COULD NOT BE TRADED until draft day.

The earliest pick he could ever trade was 2018 from the day he took the job. And guess what, he tried to offer it for at least Jeff Teague back in 2015, but Atlanta wasn't interested because it was too far out.

He drafted Jerian Grant and traded him less than a year later. Does that count as trading a pick? He traded his only young chip at the time, Tim Hardaway Jr to get Grant.

I guess I'm just a jaded old Knicks fan at this point, but I'm pretty tired of the entire dysfunctional organization being blamed on one player. At this point I really really really cannot fucking wait for Melo to be traded. Because guess what? Then Phil has no excuses left.

I fail to see your point since it doesn't matter if he trades the pick before the draft or after. Just look at how many players Phil drafted even tho he started with just on pick in 3 years. Phil is at least trying to refresh the roster with young players.

The Melo Drama is partly due to Melo not doing what he's been asked to do. Everyone can see when he's dogging it on D and holding the ball too much. Also it wasn't just him but the other vets too. Rose, BJ, Noah and CLee did not perform up to the level we needed.

Now you should be heartened by the way the younger players have been playing recently. It's an indication that we need to keep going in that direction. The future is not Melo.

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:Jennings: "Willy is the next Marc Gasol"

Jennings: "I’m in the same position I was in New York... with a team that actually plays together."

Jennings says lots of things.

That being said you can see the agenda driven holfresh thinking. Chicken and the egg.. if Melo played better think there are any trade discussions? When you are the star player, the team isnt playing well and you are among career lows in points, rebs, assists and FG% you are going to hear trade trade rumors. Thats how pro sports works.

Hey holfresh... if you suck at your job your probably going to get fired. If you get fired its because you suck, not because the impending doom of being fired hurt your performance.

You've quoted Jennings say Willy is Marc Gasol jr. like ten times on this board as proof that Willy was legit.

But now when Jennings says something you don't like "he may have an agenda".

Anyone who watched the team saw the effect Phil had on Melo as soon as Phil did his thing in mid-December. Team was 14-10, Knicks were in LA and Melo met with Phil. Melo was clearly pissed after the meeting. The team is 16-40 since the meeting. As the trade talk got louder and the Rosen columns dropped, so did the Knicks defensive effort.

For someone whose all about "trust" and "team play" and "culture" Phil sure doesn't hold himself to those standards. He's a massive failure on the culture front here. People here are rolling around with delight that the Knicks only lost by 3 to a Washington team that clearly gave zero fucks last night - because they knew they didn't have to be engaged to beat us. They could've beaten us by 40pts if they wanted to. When it was close in the final two minutes, Wall just calmly drove down the lane for a WIDE OPEN DUNK.

I saw some sad posts saying Baker outplayed John Wall. Dear god, it's sad. Wall was taking the night off, while on the court. It was an exhibition game for Washington.

exactly. Its just a quote. I dont think Willy is legit because Jennings says he is. I think he's legit for about 40 other reasons. I posted the Willy quote for the exact reason you called me out. Holfresh would never acknowledge Willy's potential. Phil draft someone good in round 2? Naaaaahhh... but if Jennings said Phil phucked things up lets start a thread.

Phil camp. Thats me. Tent is up and the fire is on. Come have some 11 ring chili. It may be slow to cook but history shows its a good recipe. I think you have been eating a brand that has left a bad taste in your mouth. As for Phil if he keeps turning this thing over and drafting well while he figures out how to get the type of players in he wants to build around fine. Back into a rebuild? OK. Horrible Noah signing? Sure. Pump up the volume. Willing to be patient with a guy like Phil vs. a like Melo? Ill take Phil. Ive seen Melo's brand for 7 years. Im ready to let Phil fumble around until he finds the right mix.

So yea. Phil camp.

When do you draw the line and say enough is enough for phil, maybe after 7 non playoff seasons.

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:Jennings: "Willy is the next Marc Gasol"

Jennings: "I’m in the same position I was in New York... with a team that actually plays together."

Jennings says lots of things.

That being said you can see the agenda driven holfresh thinking. Chicken and the egg.. if Melo played better think there are any trade discussions? When you are the star player, the team isnt playing well and you are among career lows in points, rebs, assists and FG% you are going to hear trade trade rumors. Thats how pro sports works.

Hey holfresh... if you suck at your job your probably going to get fired. If you get fired its because you suck, not because the impending doom of being fired hurt your performance.

You've quoted Jennings say Willy is Marc Gasol jr. like ten times on this board as proof that Willy was legit.

But now when Jennings says something you don't like "he may have an agenda".

Anyone who watched the team saw the effect Phil had on Melo as soon as Phil did his thing in mid-December. Team was 14-10, Knicks were in LA and Melo met with Phil. Melo was clearly pissed after the meeting. The team is 16-40 since the meeting. As the trade talk got louder and the Rosen columns dropped, so did the Knicks defensive effort.

For someone whose all about "trust" and "team play" and "culture" Phil sure doesn't hold himself to those standards. He's a massive failure on the culture front here. People here are rolling around with delight that the Knicks only lost by 3 to a Washington team that clearly gave zero fucks last night - because they knew they didn't have to be engaged to beat us. They could've beaten us by 40pts if they wanted to. When it was close in the final two minutes, Wall just calmly drove down the lane for a WIDE OPEN DUNK.

I saw some sad posts saying Baker outplayed John Wall. Dear god, it's sad. Wall was taking the night off, while on the court. It was an exhibition game for Washington.

exactly. Its just a quote. I dont think Willy is legit because Jennings says he is. I think he's legit for about 40 other reasons. I posted the Willy quote for the exact reason you called me out. Holfresh would never acknowledge Willy's potential. Phil draft someone good in round 2? Naaaaahhh... but if Jennings said Phil phucked things up lets start a thread.

Phil camp. Thats me. Tent is up and the fire is on. Come have some 11 ring chili. It may be slow to cook but history shows its a good recipe. I think you have been eating a brand that has left a bad taste in your mouth. As for Phil if he keeps turning this thing over and drafting well while he figures out how to get the type of players in he wants to build around fine. Back into a rebuild? OK. Horrible Noah signing? Sure. Pump up the volume. Willing to be patient with a guy like Phil vs. a like Melo? Ill take Phil. Ive seen Melo's brand for 7 years. Im ready to let Phil fumble around until he finds the right mix.

So yea. Phil camp.

When do you draw the line and say enough is enough for phil, maybe after 7 non playoff seasons.

What's more important to you? Meaningless playoff games or building a team that has a legit shot to contend for a Title? We have to build a real team at some point. Melo is on the downside of his career and we're nowhere near a Title Contender!!! We had very little chance of getting there via trades and free agency as we just saw the last two years.

Why don't you tell us all what deals Phil could've made to make this a Title Contender in either of the last two offseasons?

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:Jennings: "Willy is the next Marc Gasol"

Jennings: "I’m in the same position I was in New York... with a team that actually plays together."

Jennings says lots of things.

That being said you can see the agenda driven holfresh thinking. Chicken and the egg.. if Melo played better think there are any trade discussions? When you are the star player, the team isnt playing well and you are among career lows in points, rebs, assists and FG% you are going to hear trade trade rumors. Thats how pro sports works.

Hey holfresh... if you suck at your job your probably going to get fired. If you get fired its because you suck, not because the impending doom of being fired hurt your performance.

You've quoted Jennings say Willy is Marc Gasol jr. like ten times on this board as proof that Willy was legit.

But now when Jennings says something you don't like "he may have an agenda".

Anyone who watched the team saw the effect Phil had on Melo as soon as Phil did his thing in mid-December. Team was 14-10, Knicks were in LA and Melo met with Phil. Melo was clearly pissed after the meeting. The team is 16-40 since the meeting. As the trade talk got louder and the Rosen columns dropped, so did the Knicks defensive effort.

For someone whose all about "trust" and "team play" and "culture" Phil sure doesn't hold himself to those standards. He's a massive failure on the culture front here. People here are rolling around with delight that the Knicks only lost by 3 to a Washington team that clearly gave zero fucks last night - because they knew they didn't have to be engaged to beat us. They could've beaten us by 40pts if they wanted to. When it was close in the final two minutes, Wall just calmly drove down the lane for a WIDE OPEN DUNK.

I saw some sad posts saying Baker outplayed John Wall. Dear god, it's sad. Wall was taking the night off, while on the court. It was an exhibition game for Washington.

exactly. Its just a quote. I dont think Willy is legit because Jennings says he is. I think he's legit for about 40 other reasons. I posted the Willy quote for the exact reason you called me out. Holfresh would never acknowledge Willy's potential. Phil draft someone good in round 2? Naaaaahhh... but if Jennings said Phil phucked things up lets start a thread.

Phil camp. Thats me. Tent is up and the fire is on. Come have some 11 ring chili. It may be slow to cook but history shows its a good recipe. I think you have been eating a brand that has left a bad taste in your mouth. As for Phil if he keeps turning this thing over and drafting well while he figures out how to get the type of players in he wants to build around fine. Back into a rebuild? OK. Horrible Noah signing? Sure. Pump up the volume. Willing to be patient with a guy like Phil vs. a like Melo? Ill take Phil. Ive seen Melo's brand for 7 years. Im ready to let Phil fumble around until he finds the right mix.

So yea. Phil camp.

Well, unless Phil has plans to re-up another five years and do this til he's 80, he's only got two years left before Dolan brings Isiah back. I'm sure the Knicks will be really great once Melo is gone! What have we won in the last 16 years with Melo anyway?

it would be hard to imagine Isiah. I would assume if Phil doesnt re-up in some capacity that Mills would take it over, or possible Houston. Maybe they promote Gaines in some capacity to keep him around. Maybe Phil takes a 2-3 year extension.

Here's the thing... Phil doesnt trade picks and has drafted well. I fully recognize that the Phil era may simply be a house cleaning. 4-5 years of losing seasons, Melo drama, Dolan cussing at fans... but during that stretch of losing we build up a sustainable young base of quality talent. IF we do nothing but more of same while adding some high end draft talent than when Phil leaves we will have a flexible roster loaded with young talent. I can live with that. I see that as the downside. The upside is he gets the guys together that he envisioned when took this job, we play system basketball and are built around a foundation of young talent led by KP. I am willing to wait and see. Thats really all I am saying. The Phil camp response is tongue and cheek as for some reason some really need to establish factions.

What you guys fail to acknowledge again and again and again and again and again - PHIL COULD NOT TRADE THE PICKS.

The 2015 pick could NOT be traded until the draft day.

The 2017 pick COULD NOT BE TRADED until draft day.

The earliest pick he could ever trade was 2018 from the day he took the job. And guess what, he tried to offer it for at least Jeff Teague back in 2015, but Atlanta wasn't interested because it was too far out.

He drafted Jerian Grant and traded him less than a year later. Does that count as trading a pick? He traded his only young chip at the time, Tim Hardaway Jr to get Grant.

I guess I'm just a jaded old Knicks fan at this point, but I'm pretty tired of the entire dysfunctional organization being blamed on one player. At this point I really really really cannot fucking wait for Melo to be traded. Because guess what? Then Phil has no excuses left.

Also Phil certainly could have used KP himself (or Willy perhaps) to bolster to roster around Melo and he did not.

You can be jaded and frustrated. I am not the guy who is going to defend Phil from anything from what I see. But if you think Phil hasnt been active in getting younger and building a pipeline from DAY ONE than you just havent been paying attention. All I am saying is Phil has been very active in bringing in young talent to look at. We see young fringe talent blossom and help teams all the time but in the past never commited to developing those types of players. That is happening as well.

If you need to tell yourself that everything Phil does is terrible and he's got no clue have at it. I dont see it that and I have stated my reasons. We had 5 rookies on the roster and added more later. Did Phil make moves to win now that failed? Sure did. Do we have young players to develop and evaluate instead? Sure do. Im ok with seeing this through.

crzymdups wrote:Don't expect too many responses from Team Phil on this one.

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:Jennings: "Willy is the next Marc Gasol"

Jennings: "I’m in the same position I was in New York... with a team that actually plays together."

Jennings says lots of things.

That being said you can see the agenda driven holfresh thinking. Chicken and the egg.. if Melo played better think there are any trade discussions? When you are the star player, the team isnt playing well and you are among career lows in points, rebs, assists and FG% you are going to hear trade trade rumors. Thats how pro sports works.

Hey holfresh... if you suck at your job your probably going to get fired. If you get fired its because you suck, not because the impending doom of being fired hurt your performance.

You've quoted Jennings say Willy is Marc Gasol jr. like ten times on this board as proof that Willy was legit.

But now when Jennings says something you don't like "he may have an agenda".

Anyone who watched the team saw the effect Phil had on Melo as soon as Phil did his thing in mid-December. Team was 14-10, Knicks were in LA and Melo met with Phil. Melo was clearly pissed after the meeting. The team is 16-40 since the meeting. As the trade talk got louder and the Rosen columns dropped, so did the Knicks defensive effort.

For someone whose all about "trust" and "team play" and "culture" Phil sure doesn't hold himself to those standards. He's a massive failure on the culture front here. People here are rolling around with delight that the Knicks only lost by 3 to a Washington team that clearly gave zero fucks last night - because they knew they didn't have to be engaged to beat us. They could've beaten us by 40pts if they wanted to. When it was close in the final two minutes, Wall just calmly drove down the lane for a WIDE OPEN DUNK.

I saw some sad posts saying Baker outplayed John Wall. Dear god, it's sad. Wall was taking the night off, while on the court. It was an exhibition game for Washington.

exactly. Its just a quote. I dont think Willy is legit because Jennings says he is. I think he's legit for about 40 other reasons. I posted the Willy quote for the exact reason you called me out. Holfresh would never acknowledge Willy's potential. Phil draft someone good in round 2? Naaaaahhh... but if Jennings said Phil phucked things up lets start a thread.

Phil camp. Thats me. Tent is up and the fire is on. Come have some 11 ring chili. It may be slow to cook but history shows its a good recipe. I think you have been eating a brand that has left a bad taste in your mouth. As for Phil if he keeps turning this thing over and drafting well while he figures out how to get the type of players in he wants to build around fine. Back into a rebuild? OK. Horrible Noah signing? Sure. Pump up the volume. Willing to be patient with a guy like Phil vs. a like Melo? Ill take Phil. Ive seen Melo's brand for 7 years. Im ready to let Phil fumble around until he finds the right mix.

So yea. Phil camp.

When do you draw the line and say enough is enough for phil, maybe after 7 non playoff seasons.

How many playoffs happened before Phil?

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:Jennings: "Willy is the next Marc Gasol"

Jennings: "I’m in the same position I was in New York... with a team that actually plays together."

Jennings says lots of things.

That being said you can see the agenda driven holfresh thinking. Chicken and the egg.. if Melo played better think there are any trade discussions? When you are the star player, the team isnt playing well and you are among career lows in points, rebs, assists and FG% you are going to hear trade trade rumors. Thats how pro sports works.

Hey holfresh... if you suck at your job your probably going to get fired. If you get fired its because you suck, not because the impending doom of being fired hurt your performance.

You've quoted Jennings say Willy is Marc Gasol jr. like ten times on this board as proof that Willy was legit.

But now when Jennings says something you don't like "he may have an agenda".

Anyone who watched the team saw the effect Phil had on Melo as soon as Phil did his thing in mid-December. Team was 14-10, Knicks were in LA and Melo met with Phil. Melo was clearly pissed after the meeting. The team is 16-40 since the meeting. As the trade talk got louder and the Rosen columns dropped, so did the Knicks defensive effort.

For someone whose all about "trust" and "team play" and "culture" Phil sure doesn't hold himself to those standards. He's a massive failure on the culture front here. People here are rolling around with delight that the Knicks only lost by 3 to a Washington team that clearly gave zero fucks last night - because they knew they didn't have to be engaged to beat us. They could've beaten us by 40pts if they wanted to. When it was close in the final two minutes, Wall just calmly drove down the lane for a WIDE OPEN DUNK.

I saw some sad posts saying Baker outplayed John Wall. Dear god, it's sad. Wall was taking the night off, while on the court. It was an exhibition game for Washington.

exactly. Its just a quote. I dont think Willy is legit because Jennings says he is. I think he's legit for about 40 other reasons. I posted the Willy quote for the exact reason you called me out. Holfresh would never acknowledge Willy's potential. Phil draft someone good in round 2? Naaaaahhh... but if Jennings said Phil phucked things up lets start a thread.

Phil camp. Thats me. Tent is up and the fire is on. Come have some 11 ring chili. It may be slow to cook but history shows its a good recipe. I think you have been eating a brand that has left a bad taste in your mouth. As for Phil if he keeps turning this thing over and drafting well while he figures out how to get the type of players in he wants to build around fine. Back into a rebuild? OK. Horrible Noah signing? Sure. Pump up the volume. Willing to be patient with a guy like Phil vs. a like Melo? Ill take Phil. Ive seen Melo's brand for 7 years. Im ready to let Phil fumble around until he finds the right mix.

So yea. Phil camp.

Well, unless Phil has plans to re-up another five years and do this til he's 80, he's only got two years left before Dolan brings Isiah back. I'm sure the Knicks will be really great once Melo is gone! What have we won in the last 16 years with Melo anyway?

it would be hard to imagine Isiah. I would assume if Phil doesnt re-up in some capacity that Mills would take it over, or possible Houston. Maybe they promote Gaines in some capacity to keep him around. Maybe Phil takes a 2-3 year extension.

Here's the thing... Phil doesnt trade picks and has drafted well. I fully recognize that the Phil era may simply be a house cleaning. 4-5 years of losing seasons, Melo drama, Dolan cussing at fans... but during that stretch of losing we build up a sustainable young base of quality talent. IF we do nothing but more of same while adding some high end draft talent than when Phil leaves we will have a flexible roster loaded with young talent. I can live with that. I see that as the downside. The upside is he gets the guys together that he envisioned when took this job, we play system basketball and are built around a foundation of young talent led by KP. I am willing to wait and see. Thats really all I am saying. The Phil camp response is tongue and cheek as for some reason some really need to establish factions.

What you guys fail to acknowledge again and again and again and again and again - PHIL COULD NOT TRADE THE PICKS.

The 2015 pick could NOT be traded until the draft day.

The 2017 pick COULD NOT BE TRADED until draft day.

The earliest pick he could ever trade was 2018 from the day he took the job. And guess what, he tried to offer it for at least Jeff Teague back in 2015, but Atlanta wasn't interested because it was too far out.

He drafted Jerian Grant and traded him less than a year later. Does that count as trading a pick? He traded his only young chip at the time, Tim Hardaway Jr to get Grant.

I guess I'm just a jaded old Knicks fan at this point, but I'm pretty tired of the entire dysfunctional organization being blamed on one player. At this point I really really really cannot fucking wait for Melo to be traded. Because guess what? Then Phil has no excuses left.

Phil could have trade the KP pick. Orlando would have offered their pick and Olidepo as they did for Ibaka. Orlando absolutely coveted KP and tried to get him the year before.

Also Phil certainly could have used KP himself (or Willy perhaps) to bolster to roster around Melo and he did not.

You can be jaded and frustrated. I am not the guy who is going to defend Phil from anything from what I see. But if you think Phil hasnt been active in getting younger and building a pipeline from DAY ONE than you just havent been paying attention. All I am saying is Phil has been very active in bringing in young talent to look at. We see young fringe talent blossom and help teams all the time but in the past never commited to developing those types of players. That is happening as well.

If you need to tell yourself that everything Phil does is terrible and he's got no clue have at it. I dont see it that and I have stated my reasons. We had 5 rookies on the roster and added more later. Did Phil make moves to win now that failed? Sure did. Do we have young players to develop and evaluate instead? Sure do. Im ok with seeing this through.

The young talent he's brought in outside of KP and maybe Willy is mediocre and not rotation caliber for a playoffs team. Last year at this time Langston Galloway and Jerian Grant were great young triangle guards... or so we were told. Now it's Baker and Randle. Don't stop believing. Hold on to that feeeeling.

Tim Hardaway Jr is a better young guard than any guard Phil has brought in.

Most of the hot young players Phil has brought in are shooting under 40% from the field. I'm sorry, man. None of these guys outside of KP and maybe Willy will be on the team in three years. Tim Hardaway will still be starting for the Hawks though.

23pts 5reb 5ast 10-17fg 2-3 from 3pt

Come to think of it, he was one of the Phil's scape goats for the 2014-5 season.