Knicks · Screw getting a starting pg we already have one in Ron baker we need a starting shooting guard (page 3)

TPercy wrote:We better get a star SG because Baker/Lee is not going to cut it. Ever. He looks like a potential back up player which would be a bless at this point.

The best SG prospects seems to be Fultz, Monk, Ferguson, Kennard and Hart. Yes Fultz is also a PG and Monk is PG size but the great thing about Baker is he can play next to ANYONE! Also if we can't draft a PG or SG then SF is just as good. Phil can do just fine with a kid like Isaac. We should be fine at PG either way.

WaltLongmire wrote:

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:Nothing against Baker - but honest, he should not be getting minutes on a team that plays 500 or above ball. And not because he can't contribute - sure, he can. But it's hard to imagine us not being able to wildly upgrade the PG position.

He is stop gap. Does he have grit, yes.

Not for me. Dude has shown something this year at one of the harder positions to understand in an offense that is not dumbed down to PnR over and over and over again.

And he plays some tough D.

Have a feeling that Jackson loves Baker...he'll be able to let Sasha go next year because Baker has bought into the Triangle and seems to be able to run it.

Not unlike Galloway, who also seemed to pick it up quickly...and played hardnosed D.

Never understood why everyone is against having Sasha as a 15th man. When he doesn't play he stays on the court and takes extra shots to get a workout in. His diet, warmup, stretching, and off-day and off-season workouts are probably second to none. He makes the rookies work out with him - this has been shown on MSG after games.

Every blue moon when the team is just off, you throw this guy out there and hit gold. And he brings the energy every single time even if he doesn't produce.

This is EXACTLY the type of 15th man you want on the team each and every day. Playoff team, team with rookies, lottery bound team.

newyorker4ever wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:Please find and watch the U.K. Vs. Florida game where Fox was hurt and Monk started off very slow/sloppy but ABSOLUTELY EXPLODED in the 2nd half scoring, passing, shooting, attacking the rim and tell me we can't use a guard like this taking some scoring load off KP.

What I particularly like about Monk is when the game gets late/tight this kid will be able to find, take and make shots and he is fearless.

I see Monk, Jackson and Tatum as cleanest triangle fits...Fox is questionable and DSJ is NOT a triangle fit IMO.

Just remember that when people compare Monk to JR Smith they're right cause the kid is pretty streaky with his shooting. I don't think being compared to JR is a bad thing and is actually a good thing cause the comparisons aren't for the dumb shyt JR does on and off the court, it's compared to his game play only which if you took away all the dumb shyt JR does he'd probably still be a Knick.

Why do I need to remember why people compare Monk to JR?

JR is a tard --- Monk is a gamer and could play some with the ball on the Knicks...in triangle.

EnySpree wrote:

nixluva wrote:Just look at how far Baker has come since the start of the year! The confidence and how smooth he looks now!
He's an NBA player for sure. IMO he's another Knicks Scouts success. A 2 way player that is smart enough to run the offense and tough. You can play him with a PG or SG.

He played a very good game today. I keep hearing triangle pg and Ron Harper and Fisher.... come on man get off that. Fisher and Ron Harper never played the way Baker played today. Totally different games. Basketball is basketball. We can give the triangle bullshit a rest now. Ron Baker is proving to be a better point guard tan any of us expected. I think we can leave it at that.

I can totally see Monk or Fultz playing along side Baker. At pick #6 we'd definitely have a shot at both

Nope. It (the triangle) is very relevant when/if talking about Baker as a PG. He doesn't work in most systems but here in triangle he fits very well and I'm as big a Baker fan as any. Wanted him in the draft.

martin wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:Nothing against Baker - but honest, he should not be getting minutes on a team that plays 500 or above ball. And not because he can't contribute - sure, he can. But it's hard to imagine us not being able to wildly upgrade the PG position.

He is stop gap. Does he have grit, yes.

Not for me. Dude has shown something this year at one of the harder positions to understand in an offense that is not dumbed down to PnR over and over and over again.

And he plays some tough D.

Have a feeling that Jackson loves Baker...he'll be able to let Sasha go next year because Baker has bought into the Triangle and seems to be able to run it.

Not unlike Galloway, who also seemed to pick it up quickly...and played hardnosed D.

Never understood why everyone is against having Sasha as a 15th man. When he doesn't play he stays on the court and takes extra shots to get a workout in. His diet, warmup, stretching, and off-day and off-season workouts are probably second to none. He makes the rookies work out with him - this has been shown on MSG after games.

Every blue moon when the team is just off, you throw this guy out there and hit gold. And he brings the energy every single time even if he doesn't produce.

This is EXACTLY the type of 15th man you want on the team each and every day. Playoff team, team with rookies, lottery bound team.

Like Sasha and all the things he brings to the team. But he takes up,a roster spot that can go towards developing a yoot for the future. And what you just mentioned, can be had by hiring a recently recently retired vet.

As for the thread. Like Baker but he is not a playoff starting PG. With that said, he can be a glue bench guy for sure. Think today's NBA needs shooters. Like Monk in first round and Kennard in second. Although Monk is a smaller version of JR. Which we Know Phil did not like. Think drafting a freshman PG will be a risk. Except for Ball and Fultz. And we are not getting them. P

martin wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:Nothing against Baker - but honest, he should not be getting minutes on a team that plays 500 or above ball. And not because he can't contribute - sure, he can. But it's hard to imagine us not being able to wildly upgrade the PG position.

He is stop gap. Does he have grit, yes.

Not for me. Dude has shown something this year at one of the harder positions to understand in an offense that is not dumbed down to PnR over and over and over again.

And he plays some tough D.

Have a feeling that Jackson loves Baker...he'll be able to let Sasha go next year because Baker has bought into the Triangle and seems to be able to run it.

Not unlike Galloway, who also seemed to pick it up quickly...and played hardnosed D.

Never understood why everyone is against having Sasha as a 15th man. When he doesn't play he stays on the court and takes extra shots to get a workout in. His diet, warmup, stretching, and off-day and off-season workouts are probably second to none. He makes the rookies work out with him - this has been shown on MSG after games.

Every blue moon when the team is just off, you throw this guy out there and hit gold. And he brings the energy every single time even if he doesn't produce.

This is EXACTLY the type of 15th man you want on the team each and every day. Playoff team, team with rookies, lottery bound team.

He is also making very little money.

When his shooting is on, he is actually a pretty good player. Moves without the ball, defends, looks to distribute. At the very least it looks like he still belongs in the NBA, and if we don't keep him next season, I would think he has a shot to latch on to another team in the league.

Early in the year I think folks were looking at this or that DL player who we didn't pick up.

For what it is worth...I personally believe Sasha is on the team to model the Triangle in practice and to be a veteran influence on some players. We all know that he and KP have a bond...and this is always important for a young player, but I see his expertise with the Triangle as his most important role.

TheGame wrote:LOL. Ron Baker if he takes his game up about five more levels, might be a solid backup point guard but he is not even that now. The idea that he would stop use from drafting a PG is ridiculous. He should be on the team but beyond that, he is not a starting pg.

reub wrote:

TheGame wrote:LOL. Ron Baker if he takes his game up about five more levels, might be a solid backup point guard but he is not even that now. The idea that he would stop use from drafting a PG is ridiculous. He should be on the team but beyond that, he is not a starting pg.

Phil uses PGs differently. Think Kerr, Fisher, BJ Armstrong. They don't handle the ball all that much and must play hard defense and shoot from the outside. If Baker can improve his shooting he can be our guy.

Yep, same reason why I think Phil wants Austin Rivers so much and the same reason I think he is rumored to be looking at Monk and Ntilkina in the draft. Those are triangle PG's

TheGame wrote:LOL. Ron Baker if he takes his game up about five more levels, might be a solid backup point guard but he is not even that now. The idea that he would stop use from drafting a PG is ridiculous. He should be on the team but beyond that, he is not a starting pg.

What we know with some statistical certainty is that most [players] PGs who stick in the NBA take about 5 years to get good-enough to run a team. In that regard, Baker is ahead of the curve - he can be trusted to do the right thing and do it with conviction and energy.

While I don't imagine Baker being next year's starting PG, like Galloway before him, he and Randle constitute a safety net that allows the Knicks to draft BPA instead of absolutely having to draft a PG with that early pick. In other words, the Knicks *can* start the year with Randle and Baker with the knowledge that an upgrade may be required by mid-season.

In thinking about this thread I took a hard look at this year's roster and broke into three categories; keepers, on the bubble, and likely to be cut loose [somehow].

Porzingis, Hernangomez, and Noah are the keepers (Noah for different reasons and Melo, Sasha, and Rose being the likely cuts.

Given that Melo will bring back someone and the Knicks having [at least] three draft picks that bubble category is going to get shuffled.

I'm guessing six new faces.

That being the case, the lottery will be filled with intrigue as will the aftermath. If Boston drafts a PG they'll need to cut bait on one of their current crop.

Philly too will need to make room for draft picks. So there will be opportunity to trade into a young veteran - think, one of our bubble candidates wrapped with a second-rounder for a first-rounder or available players.

If we couple players by position, at least one of each of the following positional sets will be gone;

Lee or Holiday,
Thomas, Kuz, or NDour,
Randle or Baker,
O'Quinn or Plumlee

buddapaw wrote:LMAO at actual thought process of this post. Baker lol

Yeah, most likely this is the kind of fan-based excitement that fuels the Channing Frye is Tim Duncan threads. Baker is still a 4 PPG, 37% shooter with less than zero win shares. Of course he has some promise and I don't mind him having a roster spot. But I'll give it a 90% chance that this is just unrealistic fan excitement and a 10% chance that he becomes a strong NBA PG.

nixluva wrote:

Panos wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:I like baker BUT lets dial it down. This is one of the better drafts for point guards in recent memory. Take the best player available but dont pass up a good point guard because of baker

Other very recent favorite young PGs that were hyped prematurely or during meaningless seasons:
Jerian Grant
Langston Galloway
Toney Douglas

Let's just chill. I remember people saying they wouldn't trade Channing Frye for Kevin Garnett after his rookie year. Same story every year. Homers projecting rookie players to be starters before they've proven anything.

I actually think Baker has shown a lot already. NEVER did any of Grant, Galloway or TD look as capable of running the team as Baker has. No, Baker isn't a lock to be a star but he has demonstrated he can hold his own on D and he understands how to run Triangle too.

Baker seems to be closer to the ideal PG Phil is looking for. We had hopes Grant would develop along these lines but Baker is a stronger player and doesn't get pushed around. Galloway was never as good at running the offense as Baker.

You're like a battered housewife.
"This time is different! "

yellowboy90 wrote:This brings back Travis Wear = LeBron stopper posts. Oh Knick fans.

LOL. I just want to take a minute to brag about my having more NBA win shares this year than Ron Baker.

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:This brings back Travis Wear = LeBron stopper posts. Oh Knick fans.

LOL. I just want to take a minute to brag about my having more NBA win shares this year than Ron Baker.

I don't see the joke...

LeBron stopper? You guys love to make these "jokes" more than anything. Like who's thinking about travis wear? I had to google him because i forgot about him. He had nba skill set but no drive or desire to get better. He'll never play in the nba again. Baker is actually starting and showing that he belongs... but no lets joke and bash the team constantly until your favorite all-stars decides to leave their situations so you can cup them. It's not about winning to most fans of the Knicks. Its about bashing the team and making stupid jokes. The evidence is these type of threads that get the most hits.... all of the draft threads go one page and disappear.... these troll threads last forever cause of the bukkake festival you guys love to partake in.

Hope our draft pick turns into that kind of franchise changer.

So the way he can run the offense, and be a lock down defender... he's a perfect triangle starting caliber pg... fisher never blew anyone away with his play he had O'Neal and Kobe to give the ball to, and on occasion he'd hit a open three. He came and did what was asked, play defense and set up the offense.

If we draft monk or Isaac ... bakers job is going to be set up the offense (we know he is more then capable of doing this) and get the offense rolling for KP,Willy,monk or Isaac, melo if he's still here...

If we can't win with a starting line up of

KP
Willy
Melo
Monk or Isaac
Baker

We have a melo teamwork problem if we can't win with that. Watching Isaac's highlights he's a 2 or 3 in the NBA guy looks like Greek freak 2.0 ...

fitzfarm wrote:Give me 10 starting pg's that play better defense then Ron. Look at what he did to lowery, rondo, etc ... his size and strength give opposing pg's fits as well as his defensive tenacity... his super high IQ ability to set up the triangle .... he needs to work on his shot form looks great, we know he's a hard working kid he's going to shoot better .

So the way he can run the offense, and be a lock down defender... he's a perfect triangle starting caliber pg... fisher never blew anyone away with his play he had O'Neal and Kobe to give the ball to, and on occasion he'd hit a open three. He came and did what was asked, play defense and set up the offense.

If we draft monk or Isaac ... bakers job is going to be set up the offense (we know he is more then capable of doing this) and get the offense rolling for KP,Willy,monk or Isaac, melo if he's still here...

If we can't win with a starting line up of

KP
Willy
Melo
Monk or Isaac
Baker

We have a melo teamwork problem if we can't win with that. Watching Isaac's highlights he's a 2 or 3 in the NBA guy looks like Greek freak 2.0 ...

franco12 wrote:I guess if the shooting guard was Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant, Baker could work as our starting PG.

Hope our draft pick turns into that kind of franchise changer.

No need to exaggerate. We need more Frontline talent obviously but a kid like Baker can hold down the PG role in this style of ball. He's shown a lot of growth already. Baker has held his own against vastly more talented PG's. But to keep it in perspective he's not only a rookie but learning a new position in one of the hardest systems to learn.

The Knicks need upgrades at PG, SG and SF particularly and I'd like a more athletic PF in the mix. This shouldn't be looked at as a quick fix situation. It's a long term project where we have multiple young players being developed simultaneously.