Knicks · Knicks, Phil Jackson quietly picked up two-year option... (page 3)
crzymdups wrote:Knixkik wrote:Losing aside, Phil has not delivered on the culture-change that he promised at the beginning. His lack of communication with the media, fans, players, and agents is completely unacceptable. But from a basketball perspective, i'm not really sure what else he could have done. He wasn't going to convince top free agents to sign in NY no matter what. Guys like Durant and Aldridge only want to play for championship-ready teams. It's been proven. Not even Boston could land an elite free agent (Horford is great but i don't view him as elite.) And Phil couldn't commit to a full rebuild because he has had 1 1st round pick in 3 years. So what other options were there really? Had he come into a situation with all draft picks, he would have likely let Melo go and rebuild, based on what we have seen. No doubt he values draft picks above everything else here. And the ones he has had, he has made the most of. Now we are in a situation where we no longer owe picks and can actually do a true rebuild. And there's young talent in place. So he is owed the last 2 years of this contract to use his draft picks and build a good, young team, and we will see what it looks like at the end of this.This is a fair assessment. The real failures of the Phil era have been:
1) Obsessing over the Triangle when any efficient offense in the NBA can win. It's defense that is the necessity but he has almost completely ignored it. Noah lost two steps on D, but was given four years because he can pass like a Triangle center. The Knicks have the worst defense in the league since Phil took over.
2) Failure to build through Free Agency. He's had $30 million in cap room two years in a row. The only keeper he signed is Courtney Lee who is 31 and should be a team's fifth best starter. I like Courtney, but he's not really a building block, more a solid rotation guy. Rolo, Afflalo, DWill, Jennings all lasted less than a year here. We're stuck with Noah being useless for three more years.
3) Trades. He's gotten back less talent in every single trade. If you say he got more in the Rose trade, Rose is leaving this off-season while the Bulls will keep Rolo and Grant. Maybe we re-sign Holiday, who should be about the tenth man on a good team.
4) Coaching. He had too much faith in Fish at first, then fired him when he was starting to get it. Hornacek has been thrown under the bus and made to coach a system he doesn't understand. Rambis is an idiot who has been given far too much power. Courtney Lee called Rambis and Hornacek "dumb and dumber" in a post he quickly deleted.
5) as you said - Culture. We were told Phil would change the culture. It's business as usual at the Garden, right down to blaming the star player for a completely dysfunctional organization.
Abd yet people want to blame everything on Melo and sometimes Rose. I really can't wait til Melo is traded and Phil has no more scapegoats. Of course, he'll probably start blaming the coach again at that point.
I seriously doubt melo goes anywhere just because of that exact reason..
who is he and the small list of fans that want him gone going to blame for the 4th 50 loss season
knicks1248 wrote:crzymdups wrote:Knixkik wrote:Losing aside, Phil has not delivered on the culture-change that he promised at the beginning. His lack of communication with the media, fans, players, and agents is completely unacceptable. But from a basketball perspective, i'm not really sure what else he could have done. He wasn't going to convince top free agents to sign in NY no matter what. Guys like Durant and Aldridge only want to play for championship-ready teams. It's been proven. Not even Boston could land an elite free agent (Horford is great but i don't view him as elite.) And Phil couldn't commit to a full rebuild because he has had 1 1st round pick in 3 years. So what other options were there really? Had he come into a situation with all draft picks, he would have likely let Melo go and rebuild, based on what we have seen. No doubt he values draft picks above everything else here. And the ones he has had, he has made the most of. Now we are in a situation where we no longer owe picks and can actually do a true rebuild. And there's young talent in place. So he is owed the last 2 years of this contract to use his draft picks and build a good, young team, and we will see what it looks like at the end of this.This is a fair assessment. The real failures of the Phil era have been:
1) Obsessing over the Triangle when any efficient offense in the NBA can win. It's defense that is the necessity but he has almost completely ignored it. Noah lost two steps on D, but was given four years because he can pass like a Triangle center. The Knicks have the worst defense in the league since Phil took over.
2) Failure to build through Free Agency. He's had $30 million in cap room two years in a row. The only keeper he signed is Courtney Lee who is 31 and should be a team's fifth best starter. I like Courtney, but he's not really a building block, more a solid rotation guy. Rolo, Afflalo, DWill, Jennings all lasted less than a year here. We're stuck with Noah being useless for three more years.
3) Trades. He's gotten back less talent in every single trade. If you say he got more in the Rose trade, Rose is leaving this off-season while the Bulls will keep Rolo and Grant. Maybe we re-sign Holiday, who should be about the tenth man on a good team.
4) Coaching. He had too much faith in Fish at first, then fired him when he was starting to get it. Hornacek has been thrown under the bus and made to coach a system he doesn't understand. Rambis is an idiot who has been given far too much power. Courtney Lee called Rambis and Hornacek "dumb and dumber" in a post he quickly deleted.
5) as you said - Culture. We were told Phil would change the culture. It's business as usual at the Garden, right down to blaming the star player for a completely dysfunctional organization.
Abd yet people want to blame everything on Melo and sometimes Rose. I really can't wait til Melo is traded and Phil has no more scapegoats. Of course, he'll probably start blaming the coach again at that point.I seriously doubt melo goes anywhere just because of that exact reason..
who is he and the small list of fans that want him gone going to blame for the 4th 50 loss season
I think there's a very real danger that Melo will want out now but there might not be a place we can move him. Maybe he'll take a buyout? I can't see the Cavs going for him. Clippers seem like the only realistic option. Maybe Miami? Maybe Chicago?
knicks1248 wrote:crzymdups wrote:Knixkik wrote:Losing aside, Phil has not delivered on the culture-change that he promised at the beginning. His lack of communication with the media, fans, players, and agents is completely unacceptable. But from a basketball perspective, i'm not really sure what else he could have done. He wasn't going to convince top free agents to sign in NY no matter what. Guys like Durant and Aldridge only want to play for championship-ready teams. It's been proven. Not even Boston could land an elite free agent (Horford is great but i don't view him as elite.) And Phil couldn't commit to a full rebuild because he has had 1 1st round pick in 3 years. So what other options were there really? Had he come into a situation with all draft picks, he would have likely let Melo go and rebuild, based on what we have seen. No doubt he values draft picks above everything else here. And the ones he has had, he has made the most of. Now we are in a situation where we no longer owe picks and can actually do a true rebuild. And there's young talent in place. So he is owed the last 2 years of this contract to use his draft picks and build a good, young team, and we will see what it looks like at the end of this.This is a fair assessment. The real failures of the Phil era have been:
1) Obsessing over the Triangle when any efficient offense in the NBA can win. It's defense that is the necessity but he has almost completely ignored it. Noah lost two steps on D, but was given four years because he can pass like a Triangle center. The Knicks have the worst defense in the league since Phil took over.
2) Failure to build through Free Agency. He's had $30 million in cap room two years in a row. The only keeper he signed is Courtney Lee who is 31 and should be a team's fifth best starter. I like Courtney, but he's not really a building block, more a solid rotation guy. Rolo, Afflalo, DWill, Jennings all lasted less than a year here. We're stuck with Noah being useless for three more years.
3) Trades. He's gotten back less talent in every single trade. If you say he got more in the Rose trade, Rose is leaving this off-season while the Bulls will keep Rolo and Grant. Maybe we re-sign Holiday, who should be about the tenth man on a good team.
4) Coaching. He had too much faith in Fish at first, then fired him when he was starting to get it. Hornacek has been thrown under the bus and made to coach a system he doesn't understand. Rambis is an idiot who has been given far too much power. Courtney Lee called Rambis and Hornacek "dumb and dumber" in a post he quickly deleted.
5) as you said - Culture. We were told Phil would change the culture. It's business as usual at the Garden, right down to blaming the star player for a completely dysfunctional organization.
Abd yet people want to blame everything on Melo and sometimes Rose. I really can't wait til Melo is traded and Phil has no more scapegoats. Of course, he'll probably start blaming the coach again at that point.I seriously doubt melo goes anywhere just because of that exact reason..
who is he and the small list of fans that want him gone going to blame for the 4th 50 loss season
I hope and pray Melo can find a new home. I also think this team can only truly grow if they focus on adding 2 Way talent and developing more of a Team game. Things can't truly change with Melo dominating the way the team plays. His style of game works against what the rest of the team is trying to do.
Melo may not be tradeable tho. It's not going to be easy but I'm hopeful that he can be moved. If he stays they have to limit his games to keep him fresh and try to reduce his role a bit to allow the other players a chance to grow.
Lord Darth Melo who seems to have the IQ of a stone trooper. Time to shed this ectoparasite.
meloshouldgo wrote:Good that he is staying. We need continuity in the building through the draft direction. We dont need to see Woody coach Melo to second round exit. That shit is so played out. Now I hope he launches a full twitter tirade on
Lord Darth Melo who seems to have the IQ of a stone trooper. Time to shed this ectoparasite.
LMAO.
nixluva wrote:yeah. I think Melo is willing but his deal is for 30 mil next year and he doesn't want to go many places. NTC and a trade kicker on a near max deal for a thirty something is a pretty awful contract. It will be very difficult for a contender to fit him into their cap.knicks1248 wrote:crzymdups wrote:Knixkik wrote:Losing aside, Phil has not delivered on the culture-change that he promised at the beginning. His lack of communication with the media, fans, players, and agents is completely unacceptable. But from a basketball perspective, i'm not really sure what else he could have done. He wasn't going to convince top free agents to sign in NY no matter what. Guys like Durant and Aldridge only want to play for championship-ready teams. It's been proven. Not even Boston could land an elite free agent (Horford is great but i don't view him as elite.) And Phil couldn't commit to a full rebuild because he has had 1 1st round pick in 3 years. So what other options were there really? Had he come into a situation with all draft picks, he would have likely let Melo go and rebuild, based on what we have seen. No doubt he values draft picks above everything else here. And the ones he has had, he has made the most of. Now we are in a situation where we no longer owe picks and can actually do a true rebuild. And there's young talent in place. So he is owed the last 2 years of this contract to use his draft picks and build a good, young team, and we will see what it looks like at the end of this.This is a fair assessment. The real failures of the Phil era have been:
1) Obsessing over the Triangle when any efficient offense in the NBA can win. It's defense that is the necessity but he has almost completely ignored it. Noah lost two steps on D, but was given four years because he can pass like a Triangle center. The Knicks have the worst defense in the league since Phil took over.
2) Failure to build through Free Agency. He's had $30 million in cap room two years in a row. The only keeper he signed is Courtney Lee who is 31 and should be a team's fifth best starter. I like Courtney, but he's not really a building block, more a solid rotation guy. Rolo, Afflalo, DWill, Jennings all lasted less than a year here. We're stuck with Noah being useless for three more years.
3) Trades. He's gotten back less talent in every single trade. If you say he got more in the Rose trade, Rose is leaving this off-season while the Bulls will keep Rolo and Grant. Maybe we re-sign Holiday, who should be about the tenth man on a good team.
4) Coaching. He had too much faith in Fish at first, then fired him when he was starting to get it. Hornacek has been thrown under the bus and made to coach a system he doesn't understand. Rambis is an idiot who has been given far too much power. Courtney Lee called Rambis and Hornacek "dumb and dumber" in a post he quickly deleted.
5) as you said - Culture. We were told Phil would change the culture. It's business as usual at the Garden, right down to blaming the star player for a completely dysfunctional organization.
Abd yet people want to blame everything on Melo and sometimes Rose. I really can't wait til Melo is traded and Phil has no more scapegoats. Of course, he'll probably start blaming the coach again at that point.I seriously doubt melo goes anywhere just because of that exact reason..
who is he and the small list of fans that want him gone going to blame for the 4th 50 loss season
I hope and pray Melo can find a new home. I also think this team can only truly grow if they focus on adding 2 Way talent and developing more of a Team game. Things can't truly change with Melo dominating the way the team plays. His style of game works against what the rest of the team is trying to do.
Melo may not be tradeable tho. It's not going to be easy but I'm hopeful that he can be moved. If he stays they have to limit his games to keep him fresh and try to reduce his role a bit to allow the other players a chance to grow.
CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:yeah. I think Melo is willing but his deal is for 30 mil next year and he doesn't want to go many places. NTC and a trade kicker on a near max deal for a thirty something is a pretty awful contract. It will be very difficult for a contender to fit him into their cap.knicks1248 wrote:crzymdups wrote:Knixkik wrote:Losing aside, Phil has not delivered on the culture-change that he promised at the beginning. His lack of communication with the media, fans, players, and agents is completely unacceptable. But from a basketball perspective, i'm not really sure what else he could have done. He wasn't going to convince top free agents to sign in NY no matter what. Guys like Durant and Aldridge only want to play for championship-ready teams. It's been proven. Not even Boston could land an elite free agent (Horford is great but i don't view him as elite.) And Phil couldn't commit to a full rebuild because he has had 1 1st round pick in 3 years. So what other options were there really? Had he come into a situation with all draft picks, he would have likely let Melo go and rebuild, based on what we have seen. No doubt he values draft picks above everything else here. And the ones he has had, he has made the most of. Now we are in a situation where we no longer owe picks and can actually do a true rebuild. And there's young talent in place. So he is owed the last 2 years of this contract to use his draft picks and build a good, young team, and we will see what it looks like at the end of this.This is a fair assessment. The real failures of the Phil era have been:
1) Obsessing over the Triangle when any efficient offense in the NBA can win. It's defense that is the necessity but he has almost completely ignored it. Noah lost two steps on D, but was given four years because he can pass like a Triangle center. The Knicks have the worst defense in the league since Phil took over.
2) Failure to build through Free Agency. He's had $30 million in cap room two years in a row. The only keeper he signed is Courtney Lee who is 31 and should be a team's fifth best starter. I like Courtney, but he's not really a building block, more a solid rotation guy. Rolo, Afflalo, DWill, Jennings all lasted less than a year here. We're stuck with Noah being useless for three more years.
3) Trades. He's gotten back less talent in every single trade. If you say he got more in the Rose trade, Rose is leaving this off-season while the Bulls will keep Rolo and Grant. Maybe we re-sign Holiday, who should be about the tenth man on a good team.
4) Coaching. He had too much faith in Fish at first, then fired him when he was starting to get it. Hornacek has been thrown under the bus and made to coach a system he doesn't understand. Rambis is an idiot who has been given far too much power. Courtney Lee called Rambis and Hornacek "dumb and dumber" in a post he quickly deleted.
5) as you said - Culture. We were told Phil would change the culture. It's business as usual at the Garden, right down to blaming the star player for a completely dysfunctional organization.
Abd yet people want to blame everything on Melo and sometimes Rose. I really can't wait til Melo is traded and Phil has no more scapegoats. Of course, he'll probably start blaming the coach again at that point.I seriously doubt melo goes anywhere just because of that exact reason..
who is he and the small list of fans that want him gone going to blame for the 4th 50 loss season
I hope and pray Melo can find a new home. I also think this team can only truly grow if they focus on adding 2 Way talent and developing more of a Team game. Things can't truly change with Melo dominating the way the team plays. His style of game works against what the rest of the team is trying to do.
Melo may not be tradeable tho. It's not going to be easy but I'm hopeful that he can be moved. If he stays they have to limit his games to keep him fresh and try to reduce his role a bit to allow the other players a chance to grow.
I want to say Melo can waive his trade kicker if he wants. Read that somewhere but no idea if it was verified. And I don't know why he would do so unless everything else aligned for him.
CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:yeah. I think Melo is willing but his deal is for 30 mil next year and he doesn't want to go many places. NTC and a trade kicker on a near max deal for a thirty something is a pretty awful contract. It will be very difficult for a contender to fit him into their cap.knicks1248 wrote:crzymdups wrote:Knixkik wrote:Losing aside, Phil has not delivered on the culture-change that he promised at the beginning. His lack of communication with the media, fans, players, and agents is completely unacceptable. But from a basketball perspective, i'm not really sure what else he could have done. He wasn't going to convince top free agents to sign in NY no matter what. Guys like Durant and Aldridge only want to play for championship-ready teams. It's been proven. Not even Boston could land an elite free agent (Horford is great but i don't view him as elite.) And Phil couldn't commit to a full rebuild because he has had 1 1st round pick in 3 years. So what other options were there really? Had he come into a situation with all draft picks, he would have likely let Melo go and rebuild, based on what we have seen. No doubt he values draft picks above everything else here. And the ones he has had, he has made the most of. Now we are in a situation where we no longer owe picks and can actually do a true rebuild. And there's young talent in place. So he is owed the last 2 years of this contract to use his draft picks and build a good, young team, and we will see what it looks like at the end of this.This is a fair assessment. The real failures of the Phil era have been:
1) Obsessing over the Triangle when any efficient offense in the NBA can win. It's defense that is the necessity but he has almost completely ignored it. Noah lost two steps on D, but was given four years because he can pass like a Triangle center. The Knicks have the worst defense in the league since Phil took over.
2) Failure to build through Free Agency. He's had $30 million in cap room two years in a row. The only keeper he signed is Courtney Lee who is 31 and should be a team's fifth best starter. I like Courtney, but he's not really a building block, more a solid rotation guy. Rolo, Afflalo, DWill, Jennings all lasted less than a year here. We're stuck with Noah being useless for three more years.
3) Trades. He's gotten back less talent in every single trade. If you say he got more in the Rose trade, Rose is leaving this off-season while the Bulls will keep Rolo and Grant. Maybe we re-sign Holiday, who should be about the tenth man on a good team.
4) Coaching. He had too much faith in Fish at first, then fired him when he was starting to get it. Hornacek has been thrown under the bus and made to coach a system he doesn't understand. Rambis is an idiot who has been given far too much power. Courtney Lee called Rambis and Hornacek "dumb and dumber" in a post he quickly deleted.
5) as you said - Culture. We were told Phil would change the culture. It's business as usual at the Garden, right down to blaming the star player for a completely dysfunctional organization.
Abd yet people want to blame everything on Melo and sometimes Rose. I really can't wait til Melo is traded and Phil has no more scapegoats. Of course, he'll probably start blaming the coach again at that point.I seriously doubt melo goes anywhere just because of that exact reason..
who is he and the small list of fans that want him gone going to blame for the 4th 50 loss season
I hope and pray Melo can find a new home. I also think this team can only truly grow if they focus on adding 2 Way talent and developing more of a Team game. Things can't truly change with Melo dominating the way the team plays. His style of game works against what the rest of the team is trying to do.
Melo may not be tradeable tho. It's not going to be easy but I'm hopeful that he can be moved. If he stays they have to limit his games to keep him fresh and try to reduce his role a bit to allow the other players a chance to grow.
I think the trade kicker is a one time bonus paid by the team that is trading the player...I'm not sure if that bonus counts towards the acquiring team's cap...I doubt it..
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2016/08/play...
August 4th 2016 at 10:38pm CST by Eddie Scarito
Trade kickers are contractual clauses that pay players a bonus when they’re traded, and they represent one of the tools teams have to differentiate their free agent offers from the deals competing clubs put on the table. According to the Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA), the bonus must be paid by the team that trades the player, rather than the acquiring team.
martin wrote:CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:yeah. I think Melo is willing but his deal is for 30 mil next year and he doesn't want to go many places. NTC and a trade kicker on a near max deal for a thirty something is a pretty awful contract. It will be very difficult for a contender to fit him into their cap.knicks1248 wrote:crzymdups wrote:Knixkik wrote:Losing aside, Phil has not delivered on the culture-change that he promised at the beginning. His lack of communication with the media, fans, players, and agents is completely unacceptable. But from a basketball perspective, i'm not really sure what else he could have done. He wasn't going to convince top free agents to sign in NY no matter what. Guys like Durant and Aldridge only want to play for championship-ready teams. It's been proven. Not even Boston could land an elite free agent (Horford is great but i don't view him as elite.) And Phil couldn't commit to a full rebuild because he has had 1 1st round pick in 3 years. So what other options were there really? Had he come into a situation with all draft picks, he would have likely let Melo go and rebuild, based on what we have seen. No doubt he values draft picks above everything else here. And the ones he has had, he has made the most of. Now we are in a situation where we no longer owe picks and can actually do a true rebuild. And there's young talent in place. So he is owed the last 2 years of this contract to use his draft picks and build a good, young team, and we will see what it looks like at the end of this.This is a fair assessment. The real failures of the Phil era have been:
1) Obsessing over the Triangle when any efficient offense in the NBA can win. It's defense that is the necessity but he has almost completely ignored it. Noah lost two steps on D, but was given four years because he can pass like a Triangle center. The Knicks have the worst defense in the league since Phil took over.
2) Failure to build through Free Agency. He's had $30 million in cap room two years in a row. The only keeper he signed is Courtney Lee who is 31 and should be a team's fifth best starter. I like Courtney, but he's not really a building block, more a solid rotation guy. Rolo, Afflalo, DWill, Jennings all lasted less than a year here. We're stuck with Noah being useless for three more years.
3) Trades. He's gotten back less talent in every single trade. If you say he got more in the Rose trade, Rose is leaving this off-season while the Bulls will keep Rolo and Grant. Maybe we re-sign Holiday, who should be about the tenth man on a good team.
4) Coaching. He had too much faith in Fish at first, then fired him when he was starting to get it. Hornacek has been thrown under the bus and made to coach a system he doesn't understand. Rambis is an idiot who has been given far too much power. Courtney Lee called Rambis and Hornacek "dumb and dumber" in a post he quickly deleted.
5) as you said - Culture. We were told Phil would change the culture. It's business as usual at the Garden, right down to blaming the star player for a completely dysfunctional organization.
Abd yet people want to blame everything on Melo and sometimes Rose. I really can't wait til Melo is traded and Phil has no more scapegoats. Of course, he'll probably start blaming the coach again at that point.I seriously doubt melo goes anywhere just because of that exact reason..
who is he and the small list of fans that want him gone going to blame for the 4th 50 loss season
I hope and pray Melo can find a new home. I also think this team can only truly grow if they focus on adding 2 Way talent and developing more of a Team game. Things can't truly change with Melo dominating the way the team plays. His style of game works against what the rest of the team is trying to do.
Melo may not be tradeable tho. It's not going to be easy but I'm hopeful that he can be moved. If he stays they have to limit his games to keep him fresh and try to reduce his role a bit to allow the other players a chance to grow.
I want to say Melo can waive his trade kicker if he wants. Read that somewhere but no idea if it was verified. And I don't know why he would do so unless everything else aligned for him.
I think he can waive it or waive part of it. I can't imagine he would give up 7 mil though.
holfresh wrote:CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:yeah. I think Melo is willing but his deal is for 30 mil next year and he doesn't want to go many places. NTC and a trade kicker on a near max deal for a thirty something is a pretty awful contract. It will be very difficult for a contender to fit him into their cap.knicks1248 wrote:crzymdups wrote:Knixkik wrote:Losing aside, Phil has not delivered on the culture-change that he promised at the beginning. His lack of communication with the media, fans, players, and agents is completely unacceptable. But from a basketball perspective, i'm not really sure what else he could have done. He wasn't going to convince top free agents to sign in NY no matter what. Guys like Durant and Aldridge only want to play for championship-ready teams. It's been proven. Not even Boston could land an elite free agent (Horford is great but i don't view him as elite.) And Phil couldn't commit to a full rebuild because he has had 1 1st round pick in 3 years. So what other options were there really? Had he come into a situation with all draft picks, he would have likely let Melo go and rebuild, based on what we have seen. No doubt he values draft picks above everything else here. And the ones he has had, he has made the most of. Now we are in a situation where we no longer owe picks and can actually do a true rebuild. And there's young talent in place. So he is owed the last 2 years of this contract to use his draft picks and build a good, young team, and we will see what it looks like at the end of this.This is a fair assessment. The real failures of the Phil era have been:
1) Obsessing over the Triangle when any efficient offense in the NBA can win. It's defense that is the necessity but he has almost completely ignored it. Noah lost two steps on D, but was given four years because he can pass like a Triangle center. The Knicks have the worst defense in the league since Phil took over.
2) Failure to build through Free Agency. He's had $30 million in cap room two years in a row. The only keeper he signed is Courtney Lee who is 31 and should be a team's fifth best starter. I like Courtney, but he's not really a building block, more a solid rotation guy. Rolo, Afflalo, DWill, Jennings all lasted less than a year here. We're stuck with Noah being useless for three more years.
3) Trades. He's gotten back less talent in every single trade. If you say he got more in the Rose trade, Rose is leaving this off-season while the Bulls will keep Rolo and Grant. Maybe we re-sign Holiday, who should be about the tenth man on a good team.
4) Coaching. He had too much faith in Fish at first, then fired him when he was starting to get it. Hornacek has been thrown under the bus and made to coach a system he doesn't understand. Rambis is an idiot who has been given far too much power. Courtney Lee called Rambis and Hornacek "dumb and dumber" in a post he quickly deleted.
5) as you said - Culture. We were told Phil would change the culture. It's business as usual at the Garden, right down to blaming the star player for a completely dysfunctional organization.
Abd yet people want to blame everything on Melo and sometimes Rose. I really can't wait til Melo is traded and Phil has no more scapegoats. Of course, he'll probably start blaming the coach again at that point.I seriously doubt melo goes anywhere just because of that exact reason..
who is he and the small list of fans that want him gone going to blame for the 4th 50 loss season
I hope and pray Melo can find a new home. I also think this team can only truly grow if they focus on adding 2 Way talent and developing more of a Team game. Things can't truly change with Melo dominating the way the team plays. His style of game works against what the rest of the team is trying to do.
Melo may not be tradeable tho. It's not going to be easy but I'm hopeful that he can be moved. If he stays they have to limit his games to keep him fresh and try to reduce his role a bit to allow the other players a chance to grow.
I think the trade kicker is a one time bonus paid by the team that is trading the player...I'm not sure if that bonus counts towards the acquiring team's cap...I doubt it..
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2016/08/play...
August 4th 2016 at 10:38pm CST by Eddie Scarito
Trade kickers are contractual clauses that pay players a bonus when they’re traded, and they represent one of the tools teams have to differentiate their free agent offers from the deals competing clubs put on the table. According to the Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA), the bonus must be paid by the team that trades the player, rather than the acquiring team.
There was a really good article that went into all of the intricacies involved with the clips getting Melo at the deadline. I'll try to find the link.
martin wrote:CrushAlot wrote:nixluva wrote:yeah. I think Melo is willing but his deal is for 30 mil next year and he doesn't want to go many places. NTC and a trade kicker on a near max deal for a thirty something is a pretty awful contract. It will be very difficult for a contender to fit him into their cap.knicks1248 wrote:crzymdups wrote:Knixkik wrote:Losing aside, Phil has not delivered on the culture-change that he promised at the beginning. His lack of communication with the media, fans, players, and agents is completely unacceptable. But from a basketball perspective, i'm not really sure what else he could have done. He wasn't going to convince top free agents to sign in NY no matter what. Guys like Durant and Aldridge only want to play for championship-ready teams. It's been proven. Not even Boston could land an elite free agent (Horford is great but i don't view him as elite.) And Phil couldn't commit to a full rebuild because he has had 1 1st round pick in 3 years. So what other options were there really? Had he come into a situation with all draft picks, he would have likely let Melo go and rebuild, based on what we have seen. No doubt he values draft picks above everything else here. And the ones he has had, he has made the most of. Now we are in a situation where we no longer owe picks and can actually do a true rebuild. And there's young talent in place. So he is owed the last 2 years of this contract to use his draft picks and build a good, young team, and we will see what it looks like at the end of this.This is a fair assessment. The real failures of the Phil era have been:
1) Obsessing over the Triangle when any efficient offense in the NBA can win. It's defense that is the necessity but he has almost completely ignored it. Noah lost two steps on D, but was given four years because he can pass like a Triangle center. The Knicks have the worst defense in the league since Phil took over.
2) Failure to build through Free Agency. He's had $30 million in cap room two years in a row. The only keeper he signed is Courtney Lee who is 31 and should be a team's fifth best starter. I like Courtney, but he's not really a building block, more a solid rotation guy. Rolo, Afflalo, DWill, Jennings all lasted less than a year here. We're stuck with Noah being useless for three more years.
3) Trades. He's gotten back less talent in every single trade. If you say he got more in the Rose trade, Rose is leaving this off-season while the Bulls will keep Rolo and Grant. Maybe we re-sign Holiday, who should be about the tenth man on a good team.
4) Coaching. He had too much faith in Fish at first, then fired him when he was starting to get it. Hornacek has been thrown under the bus and made to coach a system he doesn't understand. Rambis is an idiot who has been given far too much power. Courtney Lee called Rambis and Hornacek "dumb and dumber" in a post he quickly deleted.
5) as you said - Culture. We were told Phil would change the culture. It's business as usual at the Garden, right down to blaming the star player for a completely dysfunctional organization.
Abd yet people want to blame everything on Melo and sometimes Rose. I really can't wait til Melo is traded and Phil has no more scapegoats. Of course, he'll probably start blaming the coach again at that point.I seriously doubt melo goes anywhere just because of that exact reason..
who is he and the small list of fans that want him gone going to blame for the 4th 50 loss season
I hope and pray Melo can find a new home. I also think this team can only truly grow if they focus on adding 2 Way talent and developing more of a Team game. Things can't truly change with Melo dominating the way the team plays. His style of game works against what the rest of the team is trying to do.
Melo may not be tradeable tho. It's not going to be easy but I'm hopeful that he can be moved. If he stays they have to limit his games to keep him fresh and try to reduce his role a bit to allow the other players a chance to grow.
I want to say Melo can waive his trade kicker if he wants. Read that somewhere but no idea if it was verified. And I don't know why he would do so unless everything else aligned for him.
It would make the chances of things aligning a lot better I imagine.
CrushAlot wrote:https://www.google.com/amp/www.clipsnation.com/platform/amp/2017/1/21/14344586/nba-trade-rumors-carmelo-anthony-clippers-knicks-bonus-jamal-crawford-austin-rivers
https://www.google.com/amp/www.clipsnati...
In a nut shell trading melo to the clippers would make for another 50 loss season, JC/rivers/wesley
Then who's you starting sf, no decent FA is signing on to play with a lottery like roster, not even second tier
knicks1248 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:https://www.google.com/amp/www.clipsnation.com/platform/amp/2017/1/21/14344586/nba-trade-rumors-carmelo-anthony-clippers-knicks-bonus-jamal-crawford-austin-rivershttps://www.google.com/amp/www.clipsnati...
In a nut shell trading melo to the clippers would make for another 50 loss season, JC/rivers/wesley
Then who's you starting sf, no decent FA is signing on to play with a lottery like roster, not even second tier
Do that move and get Joe Ingles in FA. He's a bit older but like Courtney Lee he has enough in the tank to likely survive a good length contract and a year playing in NYC would definitely make him trade bait.
knicks1248 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:https://www.google.com/amp/www.clipsnation.com/platform/amp/2017/1/21/14344586/nba-trade-rumors-carmelo-anthony-clippers-knicks-bonus-jamal-crawford-austin-rivershttps://www.google.com/amp/www.clipsnati...
In a nut shell trading melo to the clippers would make for another 50 loss season, JC/rivers/wesley
Then who's you starting sf, no decent FA is signing on to play with a lottery like roster, not even second tier
I'd be willing to bet the Knicks win more than this year. The main issue has been poor defense. If the Knicks can improve on the defensive end minus poor defenders like Melo and Rose they can make progress in the W/L column.
It's a rebuild so you're expectations aren't for immediate greatness. I fail to see why we can't adjust our expectations to that of a development mode. I'm willing to guess most would understand the new reality with a mostly young roster.
nixluva wrote:knicks1248 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:https://www.google.com/amp/www.clipsnation.com/platform/amp/2017/1/21/14344586/nba-trade-rumors-carmelo-anthony-clippers-knicks-bonus-jamal-crawford-austin-rivershttps://www.google.com/amp/www.clipsnati...
In a nut shell trading melo to the clippers would make for another 50 loss season, JC/rivers/wesley
Then who's you starting sf, no decent FA is signing on to play with a lottery like roster, not even second tier
I'd be willing to bet the Knicks win more than this year. The main issue has been poor defense. If the Knicks can improve on the defensive end minus poor defenders like Melo and Rose they can make progress in the W/L column.
It's a rebuild so you're expectations aren't for immediate greatness. I fail to see why we can't adjust our expectations to that of a development mode. I'm willing to guess most would understand the new reality with a mostly young roster.
You right, they may win 34 games
Kp & Willy were the worst, they left more opponents open for 3's then a local 711.
I have ZERO faith in Phil to make even a remotely good trade for melo, He will sink this franchise by adding a bad contract worse than his.
He's already showed the league his cards, he has no leverage whatsoever. He is destine to make crack head trade, because everyone knows he's desperate.
crzymdups wrote:Knixkik wrote:Losing aside, Phil has not delivered on the culture-change that he promised at the beginning. His lack of communication with the media, fans, players, and agents is completely unacceptable. But from a basketball perspective, i'm not really sure what else he could have done. He wasn't going to convince top free agents to sign in NY no matter what. Guys like Durant and Aldridge only want to play for championship-ready teams. It's been proven. Not even Boston could land an elite free agent (Horford is great but i don't view him as elite.) And Phil couldn't commit to a full rebuild because he has had 1 1st round pick in 3 years. So what other options were there really? Had he come into a situation with all draft picks, he would have likely let Melo go and rebuild, based on what we have seen. No doubt he values draft picks above everything else here. And the ones he has had, he has made the most of. Now we are in a situation where we no longer owe picks and can actually do a true rebuild. And there's young talent in place. So he is owed the last 2 years of this contract to use his draft picks and build a good, young team, and we will see what it looks like at the end of this.This is a fair assessment. The real failures of the Phil era have been:
1) Obsessing over the Triangle when any efficient offense in the NBA can win. It's defense that is the necessity but he has almost completely ignored it. Noah lost two steps on D, but was given four years because he can pass like a Triangle center. The Knicks have the worst defense in the league since Phil took over.
2) Failure to build through Free Agency. He's had $30 million in cap room two years in a row. The only keeper he signed is Courtney Lee who is 31 and should be a team's fifth best starter. I like Courtney, but he's not really a building block, more a solid rotation guy. Rolo, Afflalo, DWill, Jennings all lasted less than a year here. We're stuck with Noah being useless for three more years.
3) Trades. He's gotten back less talent in every single trade. If you say he got more in the Rose trade, Rose is leaving this off-season while the Bulls will keep Rolo and Grant. Maybe we re-sign Holiday, who should be about the tenth man on a good team.
4) Coaching. He had too much faith in Fish at first, then fired him when he was starting to get it. Hornacek has been thrown under the bus and made to coach a system he doesn't understand. Rambis is an idiot who has been given far too much power. Courtney Lee called Rambis and Hornacek "dumb and dumber" in a post he quickly deleted.
5) as you said - Culture. We were told Phil would change the culture. It's business as usual at the Garden, right down to blaming the star player for a completely dysfunctional organization.
Abd yet people want to blame everything on Melo and sometimes Rose. I really can't wait til Melo is traded and Phil has no more scapegoats. Of course, he'll probably start blaming the coach again at that point.
+ 1,0000
Uptown wrote:crzymdups wrote:Knixkik wrote:Losing aside, Phil has not delivered on the culture-change that he promised at the beginning. His lack of communication with the media, fans, players, and agents is completely unacceptable. But from a basketball perspective, i'm not really sure what else he could have done. He wasn't going to convince top free agents to sign in NY no matter what. Guys like Durant and Aldridge only want to play for championship-ready teams. It's been proven. Not even Boston could land an elite free agent (Horford is great but i don't view him as elite.) And Phil couldn't commit to a full rebuild because he has had 1 1st round pick in 3 years. So what other options were there really? Had he come into a situation with all draft picks, he would have likely let Melo go and rebuild, based on what we have seen. No doubt he values draft picks above everything else here. And the ones he has had, he has made the most of. Now we are in a situation where we no longer owe picks and can actually do a true rebuild. And there's young talent in place. So he is owed the last 2 years of this contract to use his draft picks and build a good, young team, and we will see what it looks like at the end of this.This is a fair assessment. The real failures of the Phil era have been:
1) Obsessing over the Triangle when any efficient offense in the NBA can win. It's defense that is the necessity but he has almost completely ignored it. Noah lost two steps on D, but was given four years because he can pass like a Triangle center. The Knicks have the worst defense in the league since Phil took over.
2) Failure to build through Free Agency. He's had $30 million in cap room two years in a row. The only keeper he signed is Courtney Lee who is 31 and should be a team's fifth best starter. I like Courtney, but he's not really a building block, more a solid rotation guy. Rolo, Afflalo, DWill, Jennings all lasted less than a year here. We're stuck with Noah being useless for three more years.
3) Trades. He's gotten back less talent in every single trade. If you say he got more in the Rose trade, Rose is leaving this off-season while the Bulls will keep Rolo and Grant. Maybe we re-sign Holiday, who should be about the tenth man on a good team.
4) Coaching. He had too much faith in Fish at first, then fired him when he was starting to get it. Hornacek has been thrown under the bus and made to coach a system he doesn't understand. Rambis is an idiot who has been given far too much power. Courtney Lee called Rambis and Hornacek "dumb and dumber" in a post he quickly deleted.
5) as you said - Culture. We were told Phil would change the culture. It's business as usual at the Garden, right down to blaming the star player for a completely dysfunctional organization.
Abd yet people want to blame everything on Melo and sometimes Rose. I really can't wait til Melo is traded and Phil has no more scapegoats. Of course, he'll probably start blaming the coach again at that point.+ 1,0000
What the N'Dour hater said.....
knicks1248 wrote:crzymdups wrote:Knixkik wrote:Losing aside, Phil has not delivered on the culture-change that he promised at the beginning. His lack of communication with the media, fans, players, and agents is completely unacceptable. But from a basketball perspective, i'm not really sure what else he could have done. He wasn't going to convince top free agents to sign in NY no matter what. Guys like Durant and Aldridge only want to play for championship-ready teams. It's been proven. Not even Boston could land an elite free agent (Horford is great but i don't view him as elite.) And Phil couldn't commit to a full rebuild because he has had 1 1st round pick in 3 years. So what other options were there really? Had he come into a situation with all draft picks, he would have likely let Melo go and rebuild, based on what we have seen. No doubt he values draft picks above everything else here. And the ones he has had, he has made the most of. Now we are in a situation where we no longer owe picks and can actually do a true rebuild. And there's young talent in place. So he is owed the last 2 years of this contract to use his draft picks and build a good, young team, and we will see what it looks like at the end of this.This is a fair assessment. The real failures of the Phil era have been:
1) Obsessing over the Triangle when any efficient offense in the NBA can win. It's defense that is the necessity but he has almost completely ignored it. Noah lost two steps on D, but was given four years because he can pass like a Triangle center. The Knicks have the worst defense in the league since Phil took over.
2) Failure to build through Free Agency. He's had $30 million in cap room two years in a row. The only keeper he signed is Courtney Lee who is 31 and should be a team's fifth best starter. I like Courtney, but he's not really a building block, more a solid rotation guy. Rolo, Afflalo, DWill, Jennings all lasted less than a year here. We're stuck with Noah being useless for three more years.
3) Trades. He's gotten back less talent in every single trade. If you say he got more in the Rose trade, Rose is leaving this off-season while the Bulls will keep Rolo and Grant. Maybe we re-sign Holiday, who should be about the tenth man on a good team.
4) Coaching. He had too much faith in Fish at first, then fired him when he was starting to get it. Hornacek has been thrown under the bus and made to coach a system he doesn't understand. Rambis is an idiot who has been given far too much power. Courtney Lee called Rambis and Hornacek "dumb and dumber" in a post he quickly deleted.
5) as you said - Culture. We were told Phil would change the culture. It's business as usual at the Garden, right down to blaming the star player for a completely dysfunctional organization.
Abd yet people want to blame everything on Melo and sometimes Rose. I really can't wait til Melo is traded and Phil has no more scapegoats. Of course, he'll probably start blaming the coach again at that point.I seriously doubt melo goes anywhere just because of that exact reason..
who is he and the small list of fans that want him gone going to blame for the 4th 50 loss season
News flash
We want the Knicks to lose next year.... it's called a rebuild. Have a good night