Knicks · Woj on KP and Phil and the Triangle (page 5)

smackeddog wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

crzymdups wrote:So in summary:

Phil's brilliant press conference performance has made Melo dig in and want to outlast Phil.

Give me a break.

Melo won't waive his NTC because he wants a zero pressure situation to play his brand of selfish ball while focusing on selling handbags and cologne and cell phones or whatever the hell else he wants with his BS "branding" routine.

Where is all this indignation from Melo when an opposing player blows by him because of Anthony's apathetic failure to even have basic defense?

There are some great quotes from Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen that they took it personally when an opposing offensive player had a good game against them or even scored against them.

So he's indignant when someone says, will you finally play some mother f**king defense you dumb dolt of a ball hog?

But he's got nothing to say on the court when he's a human turnstile?

Classic example of a person with TOO MUCH PRIDE BUT HAS ZERO DIGNITY.

"My pride is so so soooooo hurt because you said BIG MEANIE THINGS ABOUT ME!" ( You know like do your job, act like a leader, put in actual effort, think about something other than your own damn self all the time on a team)

But not so much dignity as to simply give everything you've got on the court, to take responsibility for being a professional and a veteran.

There was a documentary about a guy who was like 1200 pounds. He couldn't maintain that weight, except his family ENABLED HIM to stay that way by basically breaking the bank to feed him thousands of calories a day while he was immobile like Jabba The Hutt. Dude just got comfortable in his own misery.

Just enabling Melo by saying nothing when he doesn't play the right way is only ENABLING that kind of behavior. It's toxic for the entire team. The Knicks for too long have given Melo everything he's wanted. Maybe it's finally time to tell him to go pack his trash.

If you don't have the DIGNITY to act like a true professional ( you know, actually give MAX EFFORT) , then don't complain when your PRIDE gets butt hurt.

Melo is hands down the SOFTEST player we have ever have- I have never seen anything like it, the way he has reacted to phil saying he doesn't defend and he holds the ball- it is pathetic! He can't handle even basic truth- he just wants to be allowed to do whatever he wants with no criticism about it what so ever. And all his talk about how people should say stuff to his face not to the press- he's passively aggressively laid into Hornacek all season long.

The only coach Melo liked was Woody because Woody let him do whatever he wanted (literally).

So now KP will be labeled soft becuase he did not like his comments? You people are truly lost. Think its obvious. Anti Phil is pro Melo. Thats it. Let me guess, your another Lin lover.

Nope, I was never a Lin lover. Kp isn't soft for skipping the exit interview but he does have a ridiculous level of arrogance for a 2nd year player

Fair question. Has KP shown any signs of arrogance, the last 2 years? I don't think so. So it must be something else. And we have a litany of clues that point to Dolan's and Phil's inept behavior as being the probable cause.

There has been a change in him his second year, and thats been completely understandable- fame goes to peoples heads. Skipping an exit interview is really crossing a line for a second year player- that is an arrogant act.

I'm 100% positive that KP will apologize for doing this. He will calm down and realize he made a poor decision.

nixluva wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

crzymdups wrote:So in summary:

Phil's brilliant press conference performance has made Melo dig in and want to outlast Phil.

Give me a break.

Melo won't waive his NTC because he wants a zero pressure situation to play his brand of selfish ball while focusing on selling handbags and cologne and cell phones or whatever the hell else he wants with his BS "branding" routine.

Where is all this indignation from Melo when an opposing player blows by him because of Anthony's apathetic failure to even have basic defense?

There are some great quotes from Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen that they took it personally when an opposing offensive player had a good game against them or even scored against them.

So he's indignant when someone says, will you finally play some mother f**king defense you dumb dolt of a ball hog?

But he's got nothing to say on the court when he's a human turnstile?

Classic example of a person with TOO MUCH PRIDE BUT HAS ZERO DIGNITY.

"My pride is so so soooooo hurt because you said BIG MEANIE THINGS ABOUT ME!" ( You know like do your job, act like a leader, put in actual effort, think about something other than your own damn self all the time on a team)

But not so much dignity as to simply give everything you've got on the court, to take responsibility for being a professional and a veteran.

There was a documentary about a guy who was like 1200 pounds. He couldn't maintain that weight, except his family ENABLED HIM to stay that way by basically breaking the bank to feed him thousands of calories a day while he was immobile like Jabba The Hutt. Dude just got comfortable in his own misery.

Just enabling Melo by saying nothing when he doesn't play the right way is only ENABLING that kind of behavior. It's toxic for the entire team. The Knicks for too long have given Melo everything he's wanted. Maybe it's finally time to tell him to go pack his trash.

If you don't have the DIGNITY to act like a true professional ( you know, actually give MAX EFFORT) , then don't complain when your PRIDE gets butt hurt.

Melo is hands down the SOFTEST player we have ever have- I have never seen anything like it, the way he has reacted to phil saying he doesn't defend and he holds the ball- it is pathetic! He can't handle even basic truth- he just wants to be allowed to do whatever he wants with no criticism about it what so ever. And all his talk about how people should say stuff to his face not to the press- he's passively aggressively laid into Hornacek all season long.

The only coach Melo liked was Woody because Woody let him do whatever he wanted (literally).

So now KP will be labeled soft becuase he did not like his comments? You people are truly lost. Think its obvious. Anti Phil is pro Melo. Thats it. Let me guess, your another Lin lover.

Nope, I was never a Lin lover. Kp isn't soft for skipping the exit interview but he does have a ridiculous level of arrogance for a 2nd year player

Fair question. Has KP shown any signs of arrogance, the last 2 years? I don't think so. So it must be something else. And we have a litany of clues that point to Dolan's and Phil's inept behavior as being the probable cause.

There has been a change in him his second year, and thats been completely understandable- fame goes to peoples heads. Skipping an exit interview is really crossing a line for a second year player- that is an arrogant act.

I'm 100% positive that KP will apologize for doing this. He will calm down and realize he made a poor decision.

Yeah missing it wasn't a good decision. Any frustrations should be discussed in the exit interview. But I'm sure this will blow over and they will get on the same page.

nixluva wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

crzymdups wrote:So in summary:

Phil's brilliant press conference performance has made Melo dig in and want to outlast Phil.

Give me a break.

Melo won't waive his NTC because he wants a zero pressure situation to play his brand of selfish ball while focusing on selling handbags and cologne and cell phones or whatever the hell else he wants with his BS "branding" routine.

Where is all this indignation from Melo when an opposing player blows by him because of Anthony's apathetic failure to even have basic defense?

There are some great quotes from Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen that they took it personally when an opposing offensive player had a good game against them or even scored against them.

So he's indignant when someone says, will you finally play some mother f**king defense you dumb dolt of a ball hog?

But he's got nothing to say on the court when he's a human turnstile?

Classic example of a person with TOO MUCH PRIDE BUT HAS ZERO DIGNITY.

"My pride is so so soooooo hurt because you said BIG MEANIE THINGS ABOUT ME!" ( You know like do your job, act like a leader, put in actual effort, think about something other than your own damn self all the time on a team)

But not so much dignity as to simply give everything you've got on the court, to take responsibility for being a professional and a veteran.

There was a documentary about a guy who was like 1200 pounds. He couldn't maintain that weight, except his family ENABLED HIM to stay that way by basically breaking the bank to feed him thousands of calories a day while he was immobile like Jabba The Hutt. Dude just got comfortable in his own misery.

Just enabling Melo by saying nothing when he doesn't play the right way is only ENABLING that kind of behavior. It's toxic for the entire team. The Knicks for too long have given Melo everything he's wanted. Maybe it's finally time to tell him to go pack his trash.

If you don't have the DIGNITY to act like a true professional ( you know, actually give MAX EFFORT) , then don't complain when your PRIDE gets butt hurt.

Melo is hands down the SOFTEST player we have ever have- I have never seen anything like it, the way he has reacted to phil saying he doesn't defend and he holds the ball- it is pathetic! He can't handle even basic truth- he just wants to be allowed to do whatever he wants with no criticism about it what so ever. And all his talk about how people should say stuff to his face not to the press- he's passively aggressively laid into Hornacek all season long.

The only coach Melo liked was Woody because Woody let him do whatever he wanted (literally).

So now KP will be labeled soft becuase he did not like his comments? You people are truly lost. Think its obvious. Anti Phil is pro Melo. Thats it. Let me guess, your another Lin lover.

Nope, I was never a Lin lover. Kp isn't soft for skipping the exit interview but he does have a ridiculous level of arrogance for a 2nd year player

Fair question. Has KP shown any signs of arrogance, the last 2 years? I don't think so. So it must be something else. And we have a litany of clues that point to Dolan's and Phil's inept behavior as being the probable cause.

There has been a change in him his second year, and thats been completely understandable- fame goes to peoples heads. Skipping an exit interview is really crossing a line for a second year player- that is an arrogant act.

I'm 100% positive that KP will apologize for doing this. He will calm down and realize he made a poor decision.

I agree with you. KP is a young guy and doing what he has been taught to do by his mentors. The words and action on display are those of Melo and Rose and to some degree Lee. Top down that's Melo's words, going AWOL that is Rose. Dumb and Dumber maybe that is what he thinks every one is.

KP is the direction that we need this organization to go in. He is the epitome of hard work and time put into his craft to be the best he can be. He is the leader that is going to lead by example and be heard also. That is the main reason KP needs to be surrounded with players who take him under their wings. That is why you surround him with Dirk, Gasol, Duncan and even LeBron. Melo can teach only Branding and that is what he has been doing Branding. KP is being mentored by the wrong guy and his shooting reflects that. If the Knicks continue to surround him with the like if Melo your going to have a bigger version of Melo that is not what we as fans want.

Vmart wrote:

nixluva wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

crzymdups wrote:So in summary:

Phil's brilliant press conference performance has made Melo dig in and want to outlast Phil.

Give me a break.

Melo won't waive his NTC because he wants a zero pressure situation to play his brand of selfish ball while focusing on selling handbags and cologne and cell phones or whatever the hell else he wants with his BS "branding" routine.

Where is all this indignation from Melo when an opposing player blows by him because of Anthony's apathetic failure to even have basic defense?

There are some great quotes from Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen that they took it personally when an opposing offensive player had a good game against them or even scored against them.

So he's indignant when someone says, will you finally play some mother f**king defense you dumb dolt of a ball hog?

But he's got nothing to say on the court when he's a human turnstile?

Classic example of a person with TOO MUCH PRIDE BUT HAS ZERO DIGNITY.

"My pride is so so soooooo hurt because you said BIG MEANIE THINGS ABOUT ME!" ( You know like do your job, act like a leader, put in actual effort, think about something other than your own damn self all the time on a team)

But not so much dignity as to simply give everything you've got on the court, to take responsibility for being a professional and a veteran.

There was a documentary about a guy who was like 1200 pounds. He couldn't maintain that weight, except his family ENABLED HIM to stay that way by basically breaking the bank to feed him thousands of calories a day while he was immobile like Jabba The Hutt. Dude just got comfortable in his own misery.

Just enabling Melo by saying nothing when he doesn't play the right way is only ENABLING that kind of behavior. It's toxic for the entire team. The Knicks for too long have given Melo everything he's wanted. Maybe it's finally time to tell him to go pack his trash.

If you don't have the DIGNITY to act like a true professional ( you know, actually give MAX EFFORT) , then don't complain when your PRIDE gets butt hurt.

Melo is hands down the SOFTEST player we have ever have- I have never seen anything like it, the way he has reacted to phil saying he doesn't defend and he holds the ball- it is pathetic! He can't handle even basic truth- he just wants to be allowed to do whatever he wants with no criticism about it what so ever. And all his talk about how people should say stuff to his face not to the press- he's passively aggressively laid into Hornacek all season long.

The only coach Melo liked was Woody because Woody let him do whatever he wanted (literally).

So now KP will be labeled soft becuase he did not like his comments? You people are truly lost. Think its obvious. Anti Phil is pro Melo. Thats it. Let me guess, your another Lin lover.

Nope, I was never a Lin lover. Kp isn't soft for skipping the exit interview but he does have a ridiculous level of arrogance for a 2nd year player

Fair question. Has KP shown any signs of arrogance, the last 2 years? I don't think so. So it must be something else. And we have a litany of clues that point to Dolan's and Phil's inept behavior as being the probable cause.

There has been a change in him his second year, and thats been completely understandable- fame goes to peoples heads. Skipping an exit interview is really crossing a line for a second year player- that is an arrogant act.

I'm 100% positive that KP will apologize for doing this. He will calm down and realize he made a poor decision.

I agree with you. KP is a young guy and doing what he has been taught to do by his mentors. The words and action on display are those of Melo and Rose and to some degree Lee. Top down that's Melo's words, going AWOL that is Rose. Dumb and Dumber maybe that is what he thinks every one is.

KP is the direction that we need this organization to go in. He is the epitome of hard work and time put into his craft to be the best he can be. He is the leader that is going to lead by example and be heard also. That is the main reason KP needs to be surrounded with players who take him under their wings. That is why you surround him with Dirk, Gasol, Duncan and even LeBron. Melo can teach only Branding and that is what he has been doing Branding. KP is being mentored by the wrong guy and his shooting reflects that. If the Knicks continue to surround him with the like if Melo your going to have a bigger version of Melo that is not what we as fans want.

Tell me something, when you were college age, were you being led around by other college students and did you try to emulate their behavior...If not, why do you think KP is a fool???

smackeddog wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Nalod wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

crzymdups wrote:So in summary:

Phil's brilliant press conference performance has made Melo dig in and want to outlast Phil.

KP is furious with Phil's unprofessionalism, still mad that Fisher was fired, doesn't like Rambis.

Rambis is coaching the Triangle, yelling at players, the players all hate his guts. (you guys wonder why I didn't want him as coach??)

The players think Hornacek is a puppet, don't respect him.

A large portion of the team hates the Triangle and is in "open rebellion". Players want no part of summer Triangle workshops.

Phil is obsessed with installing the Triangle above all else, as I have said from Day One with this old fool. He's here to prove the Triangle works. He even said in his press conference he's not here to win a championship. He's here to validate the Triangle.

KP has put Phil on notice and is not intending to talk to him all summer. Wow. Wow. Wow.

How can any of you dudes still support Phil or pretend he is doing a good job? This is a nightmare. If he loses KP, he should be run out of town on a rail. And it sounds like he is on the verge of losing KP mentally.

Biggest/saddest take aways from his presser.

1."We could not defend the PnR". As Knick fans, when in the last time in last 50 years that we have been able to defend the PnR? And how many execs have we heard say "We could not defend the Triangle"? Not one! Yet we run what?
2. His plan for next year is to be more involved with Mentoring the staff. What 90 year old Exec says that? Only a senile egocentric one that thinks he is still the coach. I would love to hear Ujiri saying he needs to put more time on the court helping his coach. You can't make this shit up. And now the lost puppies that follow this jackass have lost their go to defense. ....KP. But now are scrambling to find another stupid defense.

What 90 year old exec says that? One that has 11 rings, the last one 7 years ago. Ujiri has none.
And no coach who won rings is NOT Egocentric. They all are. Larry, Pop, Riles, Auerbach.......
Talk about scramble!!!!!

THEY ARE ALL BLUNT NOT NICE PEOPLE. They put the franchise before decency. Don't have to like them, but they win.

So the Bulls would have won their rings without MJ but Phil as a coach? They could have placed a monkey on the bench, as coach, and MJ and Pippen would have still won a chip. And Lakers with Shaq and Kobe would have lost without Phil? I would argue that they benefited more from great execs than Phil. Something Phil is clearly not. But okay, he was a great coach...Like I said before, he should coach or get the hell out of here.

Go look at your Laker history- Lakers with Kobe and Shaq and no Phil lost. Got Phil and they won. Once Shaq and Phil left they lost- Phil came back and they won championships again. It's a stupid argument that a team only won because of the players- would Pop have won without Duncan? it's a result of both- people who claim Phil only won because of MJ and Kobe are just ignorant.

People who think Phil would of won a chip without Kobe and MJ are highly ignorant. And we are talking about being a President and putting a roster together right? That is his job? Not coaching. Just dont get how people keep using his coaching success to defend his failure as a Executive? Its a good thing he was not in charge of putting those ring teams together?

holfresh wrote:

Vmart wrote:

nixluva wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

crzymdups wrote:So in summary:

Phil's brilliant press conference performance has made Melo dig in and want to outlast Phil.

Give me a break.

Melo won't waive his NTC because he wants a zero pressure situation to play his brand of selfish ball while focusing on selling handbags and cologne and cell phones or whatever the hell else he wants with his BS "branding" routine.

Where is all this indignation from Melo when an opposing player blows by him because of Anthony's apathetic failure to even have basic defense?

There are some great quotes from Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen that they took it personally when an opposing offensive player had a good game against them or even scored against them.

So he's indignant when someone says, will you finally play some mother f**king defense you dumb dolt of a ball hog?

But he's got nothing to say on the court when he's a human turnstile?

Classic example of a person with TOO MUCH PRIDE BUT HAS ZERO DIGNITY.

"My pride is so so soooooo hurt because you said BIG MEANIE THINGS ABOUT ME!" ( You know like do your job, act like a leader, put in actual effort, think about something other than your own damn self all the time on a team)

But not so much dignity as to simply give everything you've got on the court, to take responsibility for being a professional and a veteran.

There was a documentary about a guy who was like 1200 pounds. He couldn't maintain that weight, except his family ENABLED HIM to stay that way by basically breaking the bank to feed him thousands of calories a day while he was immobile like Jabba The Hutt. Dude just got comfortable in his own misery.

Just enabling Melo by saying nothing when he doesn't play the right way is only ENABLING that kind of behavior. It's toxic for the entire team. The Knicks for too long have given Melo everything he's wanted. Maybe it's finally time to tell him to go pack his trash.

If you don't have the DIGNITY to act like a true professional ( you know, actually give MAX EFFORT) , then don't complain when your PRIDE gets butt hurt.

Melo is hands down the SOFTEST player we have ever have- I have never seen anything like it, the way he has reacted to phil saying he doesn't defend and he holds the ball- it is pathetic! He can't handle even basic truth- he just wants to be allowed to do whatever he wants with no criticism about it what so ever. And all his talk about how people should say stuff to his face not to the press- he's passively aggressively laid into Hornacek all season long.

The only coach Melo liked was Woody because Woody let him do whatever he wanted (literally).

So now KP will be labeled soft becuase he did not like his comments? You people are truly lost. Think its obvious. Anti Phil is pro Melo. Thats it. Let me guess, your another Lin lover.

Nope, I was never a Lin lover. Kp isn't soft for skipping the exit interview but he does have a ridiculous level of arrogance for a 2nd year player

Fair question. Has KP shown any signs of arrogance, the last 2 years? I don't think so. So it must be something else. And we have a litany of clues that point to Dolan's and Phil's inept behavior as being the probable cause.

There has been a change in him his second year, and thats been completely understandable- fame goes to peoples heads. Skipping an exit interview is really crossing a line for a second year player- that is an arrogant act.

I'm 100% positive that KP will apologize for doing this. He will calm down and realize he made a poor decision.

I agree with you. KP is a young guy and doing what he has been taught to do by his mentors. The words and action on display are those of Melo and Rose and to some degree Lee. Top down that's Melo's words, going AWOL that is Rose. Dumb and Dumber maybe that is what he thinks every one is.

KP is the direction that we need this organization to go in. He is the epitome of hard work and time put into his craft to be the best he can be. He is the leader that is going to lead by example and be heard also. That is the main reason KP needs to be surrounded with players who take him under their wings. That is why you surround him with Dirk, Gasol, Duncan and even LeBron. Melo can teach only Branding and that is what he has been doing Branding. KP is being mentored by the wrong guy and his shooting reflects that. If the Knicks continue to surround him with the like if Melo your going to have a bigger version of Melo that is not what we as fans want.

Tell me something, when you were college age, were you being led around by other college students and did you try to emulate their behavior...If not, why do you think KP is a fool???

First of all I was highly impressionable when I was in college. I had older friends that taught me stuff and I had professors who made an impression on me. At a young age I'm not gonna lie I did stupid stuff too. My friends sometimes had an influence on me. At the end of the day you can't take back stupid stuff and you realize it was dumb and you move on.

People point to Phil's 11 rings. One problem - he never built those teams. Krause built the Bulls. Jerry West built the Lakers. Phil has built the Knicks and no other team ever. Really, just stop saying the 11 rings thing when it comes to building a team. He didn't build those teams. He inherited superstar rosters. When he went back to the Lakers before they got Gasol, his team's struggled to make the playoffs even with Kobe, who he accused of holding the ball too much.

crzymdups wrote:People point to Phil's 11 rings. One problem - he never built those teams. Krause built the Bulls. Jerry West built the Lakers. Phil has built the Knicks and no other team ever. Really, just stop saying the 11 rings thing when it comes to building a team. He didn't build those teams. He inherited superstar rosters. When he went back to the Lakers before they got Gasol, his team's struggled to make the playoffs even with Kobe, who he accused of holding the ball too much.

Everyone realizes Phil wasn't the GM of his teams. What you are also forgetting is that Phil did get involved in personnel choices. He was always paying attention to players who he felt would fit the Triangle.

Just cuz things have not worked out so far as team Prez doesn't mean he won't eventually find success in building this team. He does know WHAT he wants but having the means and options to get Top Tier talent is the limiting factor. He was hampered by previous Regimes! You think it might've made a difference if he had all the Knicks picks???

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:People point to Phil's 11 rings. One problem - he never built those teams. Krause built the Bulls. Jerry West built the Lakers. Phil has built the Knicks and no other team ever. Really, just stop saying the 11 rings thing when it comes to building a team. He didn't build those teams. He inherited superstar rosters. When he went back to the Lakers before they got Gasol, his team's struggled to make the playoffs even with Kobe, who he accused of holding the ball too much.

Everyone realizes Phil wasn't the GM of his teams. What you are also forgetting is that Phil did get involved in personnel choices. He was always paying attention to players who he felt would fit the Triangle.

Just cuz things have not worked out so far as team Prez doesn't mean he won't eventually find success in building this team. He does know WHAT he wants but having the means and options to get Top Tier talent is the limiting factor. He was hampered by previous Regimes! You think it might've made a difference if he had all the Knicks picks???

He knew the pick situation when he signed on. Believe he used to tout having cap room to sign impact players until he realized he couldn't do that either.

http://www.espn.com/new-york/nba/story/_...

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:People point to Phil's 11 rings. One problem - he never built those teams. Krause built the Bulls. Jerry West built the Lakers. Phil has built the Knicks and no other team ever. Really, just stop saying the 11 rings thing when it comes to building a team. He didn't build those teams. He inherited superstar rosters. When he went back to the Lakers before they got Gasol, his team's struggled to make the playoffs even with Kobe, who he accused of holding the ball too much.

Everyone realizes Phil wasn't the GM of his teams. What you are also forgetting is that Phil did get involved in personnel choices. He was always paying attention to players who he felt would fit the Triangle.

Just cuz things have not worked out so far as team Prez doesn't mean he won't eventually find success in building this team. He does know WHAT he wants but having the means and options to get Top Tier talent is the limiting factor. He was hampered by previous Regimes! You think it might've made a difference if he had all the Knicks picks???

He knew the pick situation when he signed on. Believe he used to tout having cap room to sign impact players until he realized he couldn't do that either.

http://www.espn.com/new-york/nba/story/_...

Why couldn't Phil lure Free Agents? Was it lack of money? Was it that they wanted no piece of the situation? Is it that they were scared off by media? Maybe it was they didn't want to play with Melo?

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:People point to Phil's 11 rings. One problem - he never built those teams. Krause built the Bulls. Jerry West built the Lakers. Phil has built the Knicks and no other team ever. Really, just stop saying the 11 rings thing when it comes to building a team. He didn't build those teams. He inherited superstar rosters. When he went back to the Lakers before they got Gasol, his team's struggled to make the playoffs even with Kobe, who he accused of holding the ball too much.

Everyone realizes Phil wasn't the GM of his teams. What you are also forgetting is that Phil did get involved in personnel choices. He was always paying attention to players who he felt would fit the Triangle.

Just cuz things have not worked out so far as team Prez doesn't mean he won't eventually find success in building this team. He does know WHAT he wants but having the means and options to get Top Tier talent is the limiting factor. He was hampered by previous Regimes! You think it might've made a difference if he had all the Knicks picks???

He knew the pick situation when he signed on. Believe he used to tout having cap room to sign impact players until he realized he couldn't do that either.

http://www.espn.com/new-york/nba/story/_...

Yeah it's not easy trying to get FA's to sign. Most stay for more money from their current team and the few that move are looking for not just money but a winning situation. We all saw how things went in FA the last couple of years. The things Phil tried to do failed but at least he had more than just FA. Despite not having picks Phil still has been able to find some talent.

All that matters now is what Phil and his team are going to do to rebuild this team. It's not going to be just one thing. Free Agency will go along with Trades and Draft Picks. All of the tools will be available. It's been awhile since we had all of the tools needed to improve the team. We've also got some young talent and a Coach and Front Office on the same page. Let's see how things go from here.

Vmart wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:People point to Phil's 11 rings. One problem - he never built those teams. Krause built the Bulls. Jerry West built the Lakers. Phil has built the Knicks and no other team ever. Really, just stop saying the 11 rings thing when it comes to building a team. He didn't build those teams. He inherited superstar rosters. When he went back to the Lakers before they got Gasol, his team's struggled to make the playoffs even with Kobe, who he accused of holding the ball too much.

Everyone realizes Phil wasn't the GM of his teams. What you are also forgetting is that Phil did get involved in personnel choices. He was always paying attention to players who he felt would fit the Triangle.

Just cuz things have not worked out so far as team Prez doesn't mean he won't eventually find success in building this team. He does know WHAT he wants but having the means and options to get Top Tier talent is the limiting factor. He was hampered by previous Regimes! You think it might've made a difference if he had all the Knicks picks???

He knew the pick situation when he signed on. Believe he used to tout having cap room to sign impact players until he realized he couldn't do that either.

http://www.espn.com/new-york/nba/story/_...

Why couldn't Phil lure Free Agents? Was it lack of money? Was it that they wanted no piece of the situation? Is it that they were scared off by media? Maybe it was they didn't want to play with Melo?

Didn't seem to stop Tyson Chandler, Jason Kidd, JR Smith, Kenyon Martin, Rasheed Wallace, Kurt Thomas, Pablo Prigioni and others from signing here. Some of those guys took less to play here.

On the bright side, Robin Lopez and Jerian Grant helped lead their team to a playoffs win today.

Great coach's have great players.
Riles, Pop, Auerback all were excel with LONG careers as coach, and even as Execs.
Maybe pHil never gets it done, he was bought here to turn the franchise around.
After three years some of you can't fathom anything but what is in front of you.
Knicks with melo treaded water, three seasons, only one of our own draft picks.
Had to clean the mess up. Its taking longer. Future uncertain, panic stricken few fans who are in a tizz over the truth.

Some of you wanted the truth, and you can't handle it. Teams sucks. Melo holds the Ball, KP is not ready, a few bad trades, and again, sell the team and bring in some conceptual young guy that will do what again?

Enjoy the weather, watch a playoff game, go for a walk, and stop trying to find some conceptual truth in connecting the dots that somehow Phil is going away.

he is not.

HofstraBBall wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Nalod wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

crzymdups wrote:So in summary:

Phil's brilliant press conference performance has made Melo dig in and want to outlast Phil.

KP is furious with Phil's unprofessionalism, still mad that Fisher was fired, doesn't like Rambis.

Rambis is coaching the Triangle, yelling at players, the players all hate his guts. (you guys wonder why I didn't want him as coach??)

The players think Hornacek is a puppet, don't respect him.

A large portion of the team hates the Triangle and is in "open rebellion". Players want no part of summer Triangle workshops.

Phil is obsessed with installing the Triangle above all else, as I have said from Day One with this old fool. He's here to prove the Triangle works. He even said in his press conference he's not here to win a championship. He's here to validate the Triangle.

KP has put Phil on notice and is not intending to talk to him all summer. Wow. Wow. Wow.

How can any of you dudes still support Phil or pretend he is doing a good job? This is a nightmare. If he loses KP, he should be run out of town on a rail. And it sounds like he is on the verge of losing KP mentally.

Biggest/saddest take aways from his presser.

1."We could not defend the PnR". As Knick fans, when in the last time in last 50 years that we have been able to defend the PnR? And how many execs have we heard say "We could not defend the Triangle"? Not one! Yet we run what?
2. His plan for next year is to be more involved with Mentoring the staff. What 90 year old Exec says that? Only a senile egocentric one that thinks he is still the coach. I would love to hear Ujiri saying he needs to put more time on the court helping his coach. You can't make this shit up. And now the lost puppies that follow this jackass have lost their go to defense. ....KP. But now are scrambling to find another stupid defense.

What 90 year old exec says that? One that has 11 rings, the last one 7 years ago. Ujiri has none.
And no coach who won rings is NOT Egocentric. They all are. Larry, Pop, Riles, Auerbach.......
Talk about scramble!!!!!

THEY ARE ALL BLUNT NOT NICE PEOPLE. They put the franchise before decency. Don't have to like them, but they win.

So the Bulls would have won their rings without MJ but Phil as a coach? They could have placed a monkey on the bench, as coach, and MJ and Pippen would have still won a chip. And Lakers with Shaq and Kobe would have lost without Phil? I would argue that they benefited more from great execs than Phil. Something Phil is clearly not. But okay, he was a great coach...Like I said before, he should coach or get the hell out of here.

Go look at your Laker history- Lakers with Kobe and Shaq and no Phil lost. Got Phil and they won. Once Shaq and Phil left they lost- Phil came back and they won championships again. It's a stupid argument that a team only won because of the players- would Pop have won without Duncan? it's a result of both- people who claim Phil only won because of MJ and Kobe are just ignorant.

People who think Phil would of won a chip without Kobe and MJ are highly ignorant. And we are talking about being a President and putting a roster together right? That is his job? Not coaching. Just dont get how people keep using his coaching success to defend his failure as a Executive? Its a good thing he was not in charge of putting those ring teams together?

People keep mentioning his coaching success because you keep saying that he contributed nothing to those championship teams, which is ridiculous. Then when people respond to that point you switch things around and suddenly say "oh, what's coaching recording got to do with President" and "oh do you think Kobe and MJ had nothing to do with it"- no we're saying coach and players are both responsible for the championships- take away either and likely they wouldn't have won as much.

Nalod wrote:Great coach's have great players.
Riles, Pop, Auerback all were excel with LONG careers as coach, and even as Execs.
Maybe pHil never gets it done, he was bought here to turn the franchise around.
After three years some of you can't fathom anything but what is in front of you.
Knicks with melo treaded water, three seasons, only one of our own draft picks.
Had to clean the mess up. Its taking longer. Future uncertain, panic stricken few fans who are in a tizz over the truth.

Some of you wanted the truth, and you can't handle it. Teams sucks. Melo holds the Ball, KP is not ready, a few bad trades, and again, sell the team and bring in some conceptual young guy that will do what again?

Enjoy the weather, watch a playoff game, go for a walk, and stop trying to find some conceptual truth in connecting the dots that somehow Phil is going away.

he is not.

Great executives bring in great players. They bring in coaches they believe in and try to get them players that fit what the coach is trying to do. They help to bring a stability to an organization and create a culture. Phil isn't the coach. He has brought in one great player when his team accidentally tanked. Phil hasn't believed in his coaches enough to not meddle and undermine them. There hasn't been a consistent coach or voice in the locker room. He has had four coaches and turned over the majority of the roster every year. There is no stability and no culture for the Knicks. Phil has been really bad at his job as an executive.

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:This article is very interesting. He writes that league sources say there's open rebellion against the Triangle but I don't see this from the way the players ended the season! The team was actually buying in and playing spirited Team Ball. Where are the indications that the players were in open revolt at that point???

I'll say that this came from players like BJ and Melo's camps. Perhaps even Rose. Cuz KOQ, LT, Holiday, Baker, Randle, Kuz, Sasha, Noah, Willy, Ndour and Plumlee didn't say this crap!!! Is it even plausible that a major part of the team was against the Triangle? No I think there were a few instigators and we can pretty much guess who they are.

This team is going to have to purge "resistant" personnel as Phil said. The INMATES aren't running things. The team will be adding more young players who will also be more receptive to Coaching. This is some straight BS from a few guys that don't get it and never will.

I notice you didn't mention Kristaps Porzingis.

Do I have to keep posting what KP said about the Triangle??? How many times have I posted KP's feelings about the Triangle before it's accepted as fact?

“We’re starting to learn it now the way we should [and] we should have been playing from the beginning of the season,” Porzingis said “So we’re a little behind. But every game we’re getting a little better. Hopefully, I don’t know when, we can start using it properly and making some impact playing it.”

Porzingis, who returned Wednesday night after missing the past two games with a sprained right ankle, is happy the Knicks have gone back to utilizing more triangle since returning from the All-Star break last week. His opinion matters since the Knicks will be building around Porzingis.

Coach Jeff Hornacek said a goal for the rest of this season is to “continue to grow the offense,” and that the Knicks would evaluate players on whether they can play in it.

“I like the triangle,” Porzingis said. “My first season, the whole first season we played nothing but the triangle so I know it pretty well. I like the offense. It can only work if everybody believes in it and everybody executes it the right way.”

http://www.newsday.com/sports/basketball...

Do I have to keep posting the article that this thread is about?

funny you should say something like this.. in another thread, about a week ago, i quoted you several times (as in 3 times) with a link to an article about melo/lin/amare and you ignored every single post regarding the matter. don't try and play that game now.

CrushAlot wrote:

Nalod wrote:Great coach's have great players.
Riles, Pop, Auerback all were excel with LONG careers as coach, and even as Execs.
Maybe pHil never gets it done, he was bought here to turn the franchise around.
After three years some of you can't fathom anything but what is in front of you.
Knicks with melo treaded water, three seasons, only one of our own draft picks.
Had to clean the mess up. Its taking longer. Future uncertain, panic stricken few fans who are in a tizz over the truth.

Some of you wanted the truth, and you can't handle it. Teams sucks. Melo holds the Ball, KP is not ready, a few bad trades, and again, sell the team and bring in some conceptual young guy that will do what again?

Enjoy the weather, watch a playoff game, go for a walk, and stop trying to find some conceptual truth in connecting the dots that somehow Phil is going away.

he is not.

Great executives bring in great players. They bring in coaches they believe in and try to get them players that fit what the coach is trying to do. They help to bring a stability to an organization and create a culture. Phil isn't the coach. He has brought in one great player when his team accidentally tanked. Phil hasn't believed in his coaches enough to not meddle and undermine them. There hasn't been a consistent coach or voice in the locker room. He has had four coaches and turned over the majority of the roster every year. There is no stability and no culture for the Knicks. Phil has been really bad at his job as an executive.

this is certainly the ugly phase. Not many teams going through something like this are going to talking about how all the positives adding up from all the losing.

As a Knick fan I have no loyalty to Melo. He has been about Melo first and foremost and above all else. He is certainly responsible for the only blip of good basketball played here (the always mentioned and coveted 54 win season).

The rest of the time? Melo quit on coaches. Melo put himself over team constantly. Probably Melo's best teammates he's had here were Lin and Tyson, two guys who walked away not exactly enamored with Melo.

Yup.. Melo is an NBA buddy. Everyone loves him. Everyone respects Melo. Players union loves him. He's been paid $200mm in the NBA. He's advanced in the playoffs twice. Everyone loves him until it comes time to sign a contract and play with him. Then the loves moves from Chris Paul and Lebron to the Robin Lopez and Courtney Lee types of league.

Of course much of the team is backing Melo, and of course a switch back to the triangle is going to look bad and not be well recieved. Also if the players can point to the front office and their issues it removes responsibility. Thats is normal in ANY work environment. If you are in sales and your management team sucks and your numbers suck you are going to say "how can I perform like this?"

That is the way the world turns.

I love all the posts "I cant wait to see how the Phil supporters... bla bla bla spin this."

There is no spin. Nothing Phil has done here has worked out, except drafting a couple good players. So does letting him stay equate support? Is that how Phil love is quantified? Whether its a deserving title or not Melo is an NBA star and he's been knocked by his own organization. Melo is going to seek allies. Just like your office mates, you talk to them move than anyone. IF you are popular and networked you will have opportunities to spin things, leak things, gain support, play politics...

Those things would be fine, but this relationship isnt worth salvaging. Melo doesnt defend, doesnt pass and to boot isnt the scorer he once was. The days of him being the main cog on an annual playoff team are long gone. He is a supporting player, but he acts like THE player.

Phil has phucked up left and right, but I want to see what this thing looks like without this personality to manage. Maybe its 2 more years of fumbling and if so Phil get canned, the next GM resigns the talent and we move forward. If after 5 years Phil did nothing but lose enough to build us up a core of good players I can live with that. I think we and Phil can do much better and *hope* we do, but its not happening with a diva here to that puts his brand first and to boot doesnt produce on the court.

Crzy mentioned Chris Paul and why doesnt he get knocked for failing in the playoffs. Did you see the game he had in the game 1 loss? The guy performs regardless. I think Phil is looking at the right kind of players. Melo hasnt worked and that cant be navigated until he moves on. Too big a mistake. It just needs to be cut clean. If you read all this and you walk away with "fish loves Phil" you need to stop posting on message forums

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Nalod wrote:Great coach's have great players.
Riles, Pop, Auerback all were excel with LONG careers as coach, and even as Execs.
Maybe pHil never gets it done, he was bought here to turn the franchise around.
After three years some of you can't fathom anything but what is in front of you.
Knicks with melo treaded water, three seasons, only one of our own draft picks.
Had to clean the mess up. Its taking longer. Future uncertain, panic stricken few fans who are in a tizz over the truth.

Some of you wanted the truth, and you can't handle it. Teams sucks. Melo holds the Ball, KP is not ready, a few bad trades, and again, sell the team and bring in some conceptual young guy that will do what again?

Enjoy the weather, watch a playoff game, go for a walk, and stop trying to find some conceptual truth in connecting the dots that somehow Phil is going away.

he is not.

Great executives bring in great players. They bring in coaches they believe in and try to get them players that fit what the coach is trying to do. They help to bring a stability to an organization and create a culture. Phil isn't the coach. He has brought in one great player when his team accidentally tanked. Phil hasn't believed in his coaches enough to not meddle and undermine them. There hasn't been a consistent coach or voice in the locker room. He has had four coaches and turned over the majority of the roster every year. There is no stability and no culture for the Knicks. Phil has been really bad at his job as an executive.

this is certainly the ugly phase. Not many teams going through something like this are going to talking about how all the positives adding up from all the losing.

As a Knick fan I have no loyalty to Melo. He has been about Melo first and foremost and above all else. He is certainly responsible for the only blip of good basketball played here (the always mentioned and coveted 54 win season).

The rest of the time? Melo quit on coaches. Melo put himself over team constantly. Probably Melo's best teammates he's had here were Lin and Tyson, two guys who walked away not exactly enamored with Melo.

Yup.. Melo is an NBA buddy. Everyone loves him. Everyone respects Melo. Players union loves him. He's been paid $200mm in the NBA. He's advanced in the playoffs twice. Everyone loves him until it comes time to sign a contract and play with him. Then the loves moves from Chris Paul and Lebron to the Robin Lopez and Courtney Lee types of league.

Of course much of the team is backing Melo, and of course a switch back to the triangle is going to look bad and not be well recieved. Also if the players can point to the front office and their issues it removes responsibility. Thats is normal in ANY work environment. If you are in sales and your management team sucks and your numbers suck you are going to say "how can I perform like this?"

That is the way the world turns.

I love all the posts "I cant wait to see how the Phil supporters... bla bla bla spin this."

There is no spin. Nothing Phil has done here has worked out, except drafting a couple good players. So does letting him stay equate support? Is that how Phil love is quantified? Whether its a deserving title or not Melo is an NBA star and he's been knocked by his own organization. Melo is going to seek allies. Just like your office mates, you talk to them move than anyone. IF you are popular and networked you will have opportunities to spin things, leak things, gain support, play politics...

Those things would be fine, but this relationship isnt worth salvaging. Melo doesnt defend, doesnt pass and to boot isnt the scorer he once was. The days of him being the main cog on an annual playoff team are long gone. He is a supporting player, but he acts like THE player.

Phil has phucked up left and right, but I want to see what this thing looks like without this personality to manage. Maybe its 2 more years of fumbling and if so Phil get canned, the next GM resigns the talent and we move forward. If after 5 years Phil did nothing but lose enough to build us up a core of good players I can live with that. I think we and Phil can do much better and *hope* we do, but its not happening with a diva here to that puts his brand first and to boot doesnt produce on the court.

Crzy mentioned Chris Paul and why doesnt he get knocked for failing in the playoffs. Did you see the game he had in the game 1 loss? The guy performs regardless. I think Phil is looking at the right kind of players. Melo hasnt worked and that cant be navigated until he moves on. Too big a mistake. It just needs to be cut clean. If you read all this and you walk away with "fish loves Phil" you need to stop posting on message forums

I am fine with Melo being moved. But I think Phil needs to go. Phil should be evaluated based on his job performance not on what a great job he did trashing the player he wants to trade. Two things that really bothered me about the press conference:1.) Jaime and Steve are going to be doing the executive work while Phil mentors. 2.) Phil thinks the team started losing because he was away from them at the holidays.

CrushAlot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Nalod wrote:Great coach's have great players.
Riles, Pop, Auerback all were excel with LONG careers as coach, and even as Execs.
Maybe pHil never gets it done, he was bought here to turn the franchise around.
After three years some of you can't fathom anything but what is in front of you.
Knicks with melo treaded water, three seasons, only one of our own draft picks.
Had to clean the mess up. Its taking longer. Future uncertain, panic stricken few fans who are in a tizz over the truth.

Some of you wanted the truth, and you can't handle it. Teams sucks. Melo holds the Ball, KP is not ready, a few bad trades, and again, sell the team and bring in some conceptual young guy that will do what again?

Enjoy the weather, watch a playoff game, go for a walk, and stop trying to find some conceptual truth in connecting the dots that somehow Phil is going away.

he is not.

Great executives bring in great players. They bring in coaches they believe in and try to get them players that fit what the coach is trying to do. They help to bring a stability to an organization and create a culture. Phil isn't the coach. He has brought in one great player when his team accidentally tanked. Phil hasn't believed in his coaches enough to not meddle and undermine them. There hasn't been a consistent coach or voice in the locker room. He has had four coaches and turned over the majority of the roster every year. There is no stability and no culture for the Knicks. Phil has been really bad at his job as an executive.

this is certainly the ugly phase. Not many teams going through something like this are going to talking about how all the positives adding up from all the losing.

As a Knick fan I have no loyalty to Melo. He has been about Melo first and foremost and above all else. He is certainly responsible for the only blip of good basketball played here (the always mentioned and coveted 54 win season).

The rest of the time? Melo quit on coaches. Melo put himself over team constantly. Probably Melo's best teammates he's had here were Lin and Tyson, two guys who walked away not exactly enamored with Melo.

Yup.. Melo is an NBA buddy. Everyone loves him. Everyone respects Melo. Players union loves him. He's been paid $200mm in the NBA. He's advanced in the playoffs twice. Everyone loves him until it comes time to sign a contract and play with him. Then the loves moves from Chris Paul and Lebron to the Robin Lopez and Courtney Lee types of league.

Of course much of the team is backing Melo, and of course a switch back to the triangle is going to look bad and not be well recieved. Also if the players can point to the front office and their issues it removes responsibility. Thats is normal in ANY work environment. If you are in sales and your management team sucks and your numbers suck you are going to say "how can I perform like this?"

That is the way the world turns.

I love all the posts "I cant wait to see how the Phil supporters... bla bla bla spin this."

There is no spin. Nothing Phil has done here has worked out, except drafting a couple good players. So does letting him stay equate support? Is that how Phil love is quantified? Whether its a deserving title or not Melo is an NBA star and he's been knocked by his own organization. Melo is going to seek allies. Just like your office mates, you talk to them move than anyone. IF you are popular and networked you will have opportunities to spin things, leak things, gain support, play politics...

Those things would be fine, but this relationship isnt worth salvaging. Melo doesnt defend, doesnt pass and to boot isnt the scorer he once was. The days of him being the main cog on an annual playoff team are long gone. He is a supporting player, but he acts like THE player.

Phil has phucked up left and right, but I want to see what this thing looks like without this personality to manage. Maybe its 2 more years of fumbling and if so Phil get canned, the next GM resigns the talent and we move forward. If after 5 years Phil did nothing but lose enough to build us up a core of good players I can live with that. I think we and Phil can do much better and *hope* we do, but its not happening with a diva here to that puts his brand first and to boot doesnt produce on the court.

Crzy mentioned Chris Paul and why doesnt he get knocked for failing in the playoffs. Did you see the game he had in the game 1 loss? The guy performs regardless. I think Phil is looking at the right kind of players. Melo hasnt worked and that cant be navigated until he moves on. Too big a mistake. It just needs to be cut clean. If you read all this and you walk away with "fish loves Phil" you need to stop posting on message forums

I am fine with Melo being moved. But I think Phil needs to go. Phil should be evaluated based on his job performance not on what a great job he did trashing the player he wants to trade. Two things that really bothered me about the press conference:1.) Jaime and Steve are going to be doing the executive work while Phil mentors. 2.) Phil thinks the team started losing because he was away from them at the holidays.

Well, once you have decided you want him gone it doesnt really matter what the reasons are, you will find some. Like when you are done with a relationship... you will find a reason you dont want to be with her anymore.

While I think Melo is the part that needs to move on it doesnt mean I absolve Phil of blame. Phil is learning and its tough. Yea, you didnt make a sub or take a jumper and this is ALL on you. Thats how being prez works. He wants to be more hands on? Mentor more? I have no problem with those things. 11 rings. He should have some ideas. Thats what he's here for.

Phil has been an exec for 3 years. Thats about the time it takes to understand what parts of a job you were really good at, what parts you stink at and as a president where you are needed the most. Phil has some ideas. Are they right? Will they work? We will see and all the excuses are gone.

CrushAlot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Nalod wrote:Great coach's have great players.
Riles, Pop, Auerback all were excel with LONG careers as coach, and even as Execs.
Maybe pHil never gets it done, he was bought here to turn the franchise around.
After three years some of you can't fathom anything but what is in front of you.
Knicks with melo treaded water, three seasons, only one of our own draft picks.
Had to clean the mess up. Its taking longer. Future uncertain, panic stricken few fans who are in a tizz over the truth.

Some of you wanted the truth, and you can't handle it. Teams sucks. Melo holds the Ball, KP is not ready, a few bad trades, and again, sell the team and bring in some conceptual young guy that will do what again?

Enjoy the weather, watch a playoff game, go for a walk, and stop trying to find some conceptual truth in connecting the dots that somehow Phil is going away.

he is not.

Great executives bring in great players. They bring in coaches they believe in and try to get them players that fit what the coach is trying to do. They help to bring a stability to an organization and create a culture. Phil isn't the coach. He has brought in one great player when his team accidentally tanked. Phil hasn't believed in his coaches enough to not meddle and undermine them. There hasn't been a consistent coach or voice in the locker room. He has had four coaches and turned over the majority of the roster every year. There is no stability and no culture for the Knicks. Phil has been really bad at his job as an executive.

this is certainly the ugly phase. Not many teams going through something like this are going to talking about how all the positives adding up from all the losing.

As a Knick fan I have no loyalty to Melo. He has been about Melo first and foremost and above all else. He is certainly responsible for the only blip of good basketball played here (the always mentioned and coveted 54 win season).

The rest of the time? Melo quit on coaches. Melo put himself over team constantly. Probably Melo's best teammates he's had here were Lin and Tyson, two guys who walked away not exactly enamored with Melo.

Yup.. Melo is an NBA buddy. Everyone loves him. Everyone respects Melo. Players union loves him. He's been paid $200mm in the NBA. He's advanced in the playoffs twice. Everyone loves him until it comes time to sign a contract and play with him. Then the loves moves from Chris Paul and Lebron to the Robin Lopez and Courtney Lee types of league.

Of course much of the team is backing Melo, and of course a switch back to the triangle is going to look bad and not be well recieved. Also if the players can point to the front office and their issues it removes responsibility. Thats is normal in ANY work environment. If you are in sales and your management team sucks and your numbers suck you are going to say "how can I perform like this?"

That is the way the world turns.

I love all the posts "I cant wait to see how the Phil supporters... bla bla bla spin this."

There is no spin. Nothing Phil has done here has worked out, except drafting a couple good players. So does letting him stay equate support? Is that how Phil love is quantified? Whether its a deserving title or not Melo is an NBA star and he's been knocked by his own organization. Melo is going to seek allies. Just like your office mates, you talk to them move than anyone. IF you are popular and networked you will have opportunities to spin things, leak things, gain support, play politics...

Those things would be fine, but this relationship isnt worth salvaging. Melo doesnt defend, doesnt pass and to boot isnt the scorer he once was. The days of him being the main cog on an annual playoff team are long gone. He is a supporting player, but he acts like THE player.

Phil has phucked up left and right, but I want to see what this thing looks like without this personality to manage. Maybe its 2 more years of fumbling and if so Phil get canned, the next GM resigns the talent and we move forward. If after 5 years Phil did nothing but lose enough to build us up a core of good players I can live with that. I think we and Phil can do much better and *hope* we do, but its not happening with a diva here to that puts his brand first and to boot doesnt produce on the court.

Crzy mentioned Chris Paul and why doesnt he get knocked for failing in the playoffs. Did you see the game he had in the game 1 loss? The guy performs regardless. I think Phil is looking at the right kind of players. Melo hasnt worked and that cant be navigated until he moves on. Too big a mistake. It just needs to be cut clean. If you read all this and you walk away with "fish loves Phil" you need to stop posting on message forums

I am fine with Melo being moved. But I think Phil needs to go. Phil should be evaluated based on his job performance not on what a great job he did trashing the player he wants to trade. Two things that really bothered me about the press conference:1.) Jaime and Steve are going to be doing the executive work while Phil mentors. 2.) Phil thinks the team started losing because he was away from them at the holidays.

I don't see a big issue here. Pat Riley came back and coached in Miami and also hired a young and relatively inexperienced coach that he could mentor. This is not unprecedented.

Phil wants to be more in touch with the team and what's going on. Remember there are going to be more young players next year. This isn't necessarily a bad thing as you're assuming it may be.

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Nalod wrote:Great coach's have great players.
Riles, Pop, Auerback all were excel with LONG careers as coach, and even as Execs.
Maybe pHil never gets it done, he was bought here to turn the franchise around.
After three years some of you can't fathom anything but what is in front of you.
Knicks with melo treaded water, three seasons, only one of our own draft picks.
Had to clean the mess up. Its taking longer. Future uncertain, panic stricken few fans who are in a tizz over the truth.

Some of you wanted the truth, and you can't handle it. Teams sucks. Melo holds the Ball, KP is not ready, a few bad trades, and again, sell the team and bring in some conceptual young guy that will do what again?

Enjoy the weather, watch a playoff game, go for a walk, and stop trying to find some conceptual truth in connecting the dots that somehow Phil is going away.

he is not.

Great executives bring in great players. They bring in coaches they believe in and try to get them players that fit what the coach is trying to do. They help to bring a stability to an organization and create a culture. Phil isn't the coach. He has brought in one great player when his team accidentally tanked. Phil hasn't believed in his coaches enough to not meddle and undermine them. There hasn't been a consistent coach or voice in the locker room. He has had four coaches and turned over the majority of the roster every year. There is no stability and no culture for the Knicks. Phil has been really bad at his job as an executive.

this is certainly the ugly phase. Not many teams going through something like this are going to talking about how all the positives adding up from all the losing.

As a Knick fan I have no loyalty to Melo. He has been about Melo first and foremost and above all else. He is certainly responsible for the only blip of good basketball played here (the always mentioned and coveted 54 win season).

The rest of the time? Melo quit on coaches. Melo put himself over team constantly. Probably Melo's best teammates he's had here were Lin and Tyson, two guys who walked away not exactly enamored with Melo.

Yup.. Melo is an NBA buddy. Everyone loves him. Everyone respects Melo. Players union loves him. He's been paid $200mm in the NBA. He's advanced in the playoffs twice. Everyone loves him until it comes time to sign a contract and play with him. Then the loves moves from Chris Paul and Lebron to the Robin Lopez and Courtney Lee types of league.

Of course much of the team is backing Melo, and of course a switch back to the triangle is going to look bad and not be well recieved. Also if the players can point to the front office and their issues it removes responsibility. Thats is normal in ANY work environment. If you are in sales and your management team sucks and your numbers suck you are going to say "how can I perform like this?"

That is the way the world turns.

I love all the posts "I cant wait to see how the Phil supporters... bla bla bla spin this."

There is no spin. Nothing Phil has done here has worked out, except drafting a couple good players. So does letting him stay equate support? Is that how Phil love is quantified? Whether its a deserving title or not Melo is an NBA star and he's been knocked by his own organization. Melo is going to seek allies. Just like your office mates, you talk to them move than anyone. IF you are popular and networked you will have opportunities to spin things, leak things, gain support, play politics...

Those things would be fine, but this relationship isnt worth salvaging. Melo doesnt defend, doesnt pass and to boot isnt the scorer he once was. The days of him being the main cog on an annual playoff team are long gone. He is a supporting player, but he acts like THE player.

Phil has phucked up left and right, but I want to see what this thing looks like without this personality to manage. Maybe its 2 more years of fumbling and if so Phil get canned, the next GM resigns the talent and we move forward. If after 5 years Phil did nothing but lose enough to build us up a core of good players I can live with that. I think we and Phil can do much better and *hope* we do, but its not happening with a diva here to that puts his brand first and to boot doesnt produce on the court.

Crzy mentioned Chris Paul and why doesnt he get knocked for failing in the playoffs. Did you see the game he had in the game 1 loss? The guy performs regardless. I think Phil is looking at the right kind of players. Melo hasnt worked and that cant be navigated until he moves on. Too big a mistake. It just needs to be cut clean. If you read all this and you walk away with "fish loves Phil" you need to stop posting on message forums

It being time for Melo to go doesn't mean Phil did a good job with Melo or anything else. And again the guy who supposedly learned back in the 80s that "leopards don't change their spots" is the guy who not only signed Melo but gave him a NTC which may still make him impossible to move this summer. Okay, so it's time to move on from Melo - you really trust Phil as the guy to do it?

Also, I've never been able to get around this part. You say Melo is about Melo, only cares about himself not the team.

What would you call Phil caring about the triangle more than winning a championship? That's what he's here for. He doesn't have some abstract notion of "caring about the team" that fans love to bring up - this is a billion dollar business by the way, not fantasy land - but Phil has made clear he puts winning WITH the triangle over winning. How is he not a selfish, me-first ego guy. I think he is. I'm sorta mystified you guys can't see it.