Knicks · Woj on KP and Phil and the Triangle (page 1)

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This is a must read.

As Jackson publicly pushed for Carmelo Anthony to waive his no-trade clause and accept a move out of New York on Friday and disparaged coach Jeff Hornacek’s connectivity to the locker room, a bigger issue emerged: Kristaps Porzingis made a stand about the unprofessionalism and routine chaos that has lorded over his work environment.

Porzingis passed on the exit interviews, as ESPN’s Ian Begley first reported, and league sources say Porzingis is planning a long trip back to Latvia that may not include a return to New York until closer to the start of training camp.

Porzingis isn’t alone. Players are privately fuming that they want no part of the organization’s summer slate of triangle offense regimen at the team’s suburban New York practice facility, league sources told The Vertical. In reality, there’s an open rebellion to the triangle – for the offense itself, and by extension, the discord and dysfunction that it’s implementation has burdened upon everyone.

It isn’t only Jackson’s laborious organizational emails about the triangle – demands of emphasis on schooling players on the reverse pivot move, or the proper passing techniques – but his increasing insistence on the coaching staff and players that the obsolete offense become fully functional for the 2017-18 season.

Inside and outside the Knicks, people see a franchise in disrepair: Jackson’s open war with Anthony, the failed trade for Derrick Rose and the $72 million contract albatross of a broken-down Joakim Noah. Players grumble of a support staff that is far more concerned about creating an illusion of hard work with management and ownership than facilitating winning, a media-relations staff that is suffocating and intrusive, and a management/coaching dynamic that’s made Hornacek look like a puppet.

Beyond moving Anthony out of town, Jackson sees the resolution of the franchise’s issues through the prism of an offense the coaches don’t want to teach and that the players don’t want to run.

“To Phil, the culture is the triangle,” a league source involved in the dynamic told The Vertical.

After his first season as Knicks coach, Hornacek is still trying to incorporate a system that is foreign to him, armed with a Jackson-installed assistant coach, Kurt Rambis, who is beyond unpopular with the players, league sources said. When players want coaching and teaching, they get yelling, sources said. Most wonder about Rambis’ allegiances, because after all, he’s Jackson’s guy, not Hornacek’s.

The Knicks will revisit Anthony trade talks closer to the NBA draft in June, but Jackson’s strategy of publicly pushing Anthony out of town has backfired. So far, it’s made Anthony want to dig in to the final two years left on his contract and outlast Jackson’s regime.

For the Knicks and Jackson, though, Porzingis’ growing disillusionment threatens the Knicks’ flimsy foundation. Two years ago, Porzingis walked into New York as an earnest, eager 7-foot-3 talent who has been relentless in his work habits and appetite for professional growth. He trusted former coach Derek Fisher and the individual instruction delivered to him, league sources said. Beyond Jackson’s anger with Fisher moving away from the triangle, there were disagreements about how to use Porzingis in the offense and about how to approach his skill development, league sources said.

After Fisher’s firing, Jackson made Rambis the interim head coach and pushed for his longtime aide to become the permanent head coach until pressure inside and outside the organization forced Jackson to abandon the plan. Jackson hired Hornacek, who had been fired in Phoenix and had no leverage to command the chance to run his own system, or dispatch Rambis from the coaching staff.

Porzingis has educated himself on how successful NBA organizations are run and knows now that the Knicks – from ownership to management to coaching – are nowhere near delivering him the platform to develop into the cornerstone of a winning team.

It is possible that Porzingis will connect with Jackson before he departs for the summer, but he appears in no rush. Porzingis has been a dutiful teammate and employee for two seasons, but the franchise’s most important player since Patrick Ewing is preparing for his third NBA season across the world – far from Phil Jackson, the triangle and the chaos of the Knicks organization.

For now, Porzingis’ message appears to be unmistakable for New York’s lost cause of an organization: You’re on the clock with me, too.

Phil's brilliant press conference performance has made Melo dig in and want to outlast Phil.

KP is furious with Phil's unprofessionalism, still mad that Fisher was fired, doesn't like Rambis.

Rambis is coaching the Triangle, yelling at players, the players all hate his guts. (you guys wonder why I didn't want him as coach??)

The players think Hornacek is a puppet, don't respect him.

A large portion of the team hates the Triangle and is in "open rebellion". Players want no part of summer Triangle workshops.

Phil is obsessed with installing the Triangle above all else, as I have said from Day One with this old fool. He's here to prove the Triangle works. He even said in his press conference he's not here to win a championship. He's here to validate the Triangle.

KP has put Phil on notice and is not intending to talk to him all summer. Wow. Wow. Wow.

How can any of you dudes still support Phil or pretend he is doing a good job? This is a nightmare. If he loses KP, he should be run out of town on a rail. And it sounds like he is on the verge of losing KP mentally.

holfresh wrote:Phil basically said Rambis is the only one who knew how to run his offense equally as he does in the press conference..He said he has not "mentor" more next season...He said the same about Fisher(mentor)after season one..

I said at the time Fisher was fired because he moved away from the Triangle and was told that was not true.

Fisher was a great young coach. It was clear Melo and KP respected the hell out of him. Phil's first MAJOR mistake was firing Fisher. I didn't love the Tyson trade, or giving away Shump and JR. But Fish rolled with it and had the team playing respectable, team ball last season. Melo's highest assist season of his career. KP looked like Rookie of the Year while Fisher was here. Phil fired him because he wouldn't run the Triangle enough and wouldn't let Phil in on his practices. Phil wants a puppet coach like Rambis or apparently Hornacek. It's been downhill since the Fisher firing, and the steering wheel has flown off at this point.

crzymdups wrote:

holfresh wrote:Phil basically said Rambis is the only one who knew how to run his offense equally as he does in the press conference..He said he has not "mentor" more next season...He said the same about Fisher(mentor)after season one..

I said at the time Fisher was fired because he moved away from the Triangle and was told that was not true.

Fisher was a great young coach. It was clear Melo and KP respected the hell out of him. Phil's first MAJOR mistake was firing Fisher. I didn't love the Tyson trade, or giving away Shump and JR. But Fish rolled with it and had the team playing respectable, team ball last season. Melo's highest assist season of his career. KP looked like Rookie of the Year while Fisher was here. Phil fired him because he wouldn't run the Triangle enough and wouldn't let Phil in on his practices. Phil wants a puppet coach like Rambis or apparently Hornacek. It's been downhill since the Fisher firing, and the steering wheel has flown off at this point.

league sources say that some players emerged perplexed over the contents of the conversations – which included game-show questions. The Knicks president sent his team into the summer in a similar state as to how they staggered through another lost season: bewilderment.

crzymdups wrote:Also, this is the first line of the article, but it really needs to be highlighted. What the hell is Phil doing?

league sources say that some players emerged perplexed over the contents of the conversations – which included game-show questions. The Knicks president sent his team into the summer in a similar state as to how they staggered through another lost season: bewilderment.

crzymdups wrote:

holfresh wrote:Phil basically said Rambis is the only one who knew how to run his offense equally as he does in the press conference..He said he has not "mentor" more next season...He said the same about Fisher(mentor)after season one..

I said at the time Fisher was fired because he moved away from the Triangle and was told that was not true.

Fisher was a great young coach. It was clear Melo and KP respected the hell out of him. Phil's first MAJOR mistake was firing Fisher. I didn't love the Tyson trade, or giving away Shump and JR. But Fish rolled with it and had the team playing respectable, team ball last season. Melo's highest assist season of his career. KP looked like Rookie of the Year while Fisher was here. Phil fired him because he wouldn't run the Triangle enough and wouldn't let Phil in on his practices. Phil wants a puppet coach like Rambis or apparently Hornacek. It's been downhill since the Fisher firing, and the steering wheel has flown off at this point.

I would not go that far. He had a lot of in game and late game problems too. I do not care if he dated Barnes girl but he should not have left in the middle of training camp. What I will say that it did seem like after halftime when the knicks would get down Fisher would scrap the triangle and go with a more PnR based offense.

yellowboy90 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

holfresh wrote:Phil basically said Rambis is the only one who knew how to run his offense equally as he does in the press conference..He said he has not "mentor" more next season...He said the same about Fisher(mentor)after season one..

I said at the time Fisher was fired because he moved away from the Triangle and was told that was not true.

Fisher was a great young coach. It was clear Melo and KP respected the hell out of him. Phil's first MAJOR mistake was firing Fisher. I didn't love the Tyson trade, or giving away Shump and JR. But Fish rolled with it and had the team playing respectable, team ball last season. Melo's highest assist season of his career. KP looked like Rookie of the Year while Fisher was here. Phil fired him because he wouldn't run the Triangle enough and wouldn't let Phil in on his practices. Phil wants a puppet coach like Rambis or apparently Hornacek. It's been downhill since the Fisher firing, and the steering wheel has flown off at this point.

I would not go that far. He had a lot of in game and late game problems too. I do not care if he dated Barnes girl but he should not have left in the middle of training camp. What I will say that it did seem like after halftime when the knicks would get down Fisher would scrap the triangle and go with a more PnR based offense.

Yeah, he would run a 4/5 pick and roll with Melo and Rolo that was very effective. But he would save it for the 4th quarter. It allowed us to catch teams by surprise.

Ok, great young coach may be too strong.

But I thought he was a very promising young coach. And it really did seem like Melo trusted him, and KP, too.

I was mystified by his firing and I complained it seemed like he was being fired because he moved away from the Triangle at the time and some dudes here erupted in Phil support. Those same dudes were very pro-Rambis. Which is fine, except it turns out all the players hate Rambis, who has one of the worst winning percentages of any head coach ever.

crzymdups wrote:Also, this is the first line of the article, but it really needs to be highlighted. What the hell is Phil doing?

league sources say that some players emerged perplexed over the contents of the conversations – which included game-show questions. The Knicks president sent his team into the summer in a similar state as to how they staggered through another lost season: bewilderment.

crzymdups wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

holfresh wrote:Phil basically said Rambis is the only one who knew how to run his offense equally as he does in the press conference..He said he has not "mentor" more next season...He said the same about Fisher(mentor)after season one..

I said at the time Fisher was fired because he moved away from the Triangle and was told that was not true.

Fisher was a great young coach. It was clear Melo and KP respected the hell out of him. Phil's first MAJOR mistake was firing Fisher. I didn't love the Tyson trade, or giving away Shump and JR. But Fish rolled with it and had the team playing respectable, team ball last season. Melo's highest assist season of his career. KP looked like Rookie of the Year while Fisher was here. Phil fired him because he wouldn't run the Triangle enough and wouldn't let Phil in on his practices. Phil wants a puppet coach like Rambis or apparently Hornacek. It's been downhill since the Fisher firing, and the steering wheel has flown off at this point.

I would not go that far. He had a lot of in game and late game problems too. I do not care if he dated Barnes girl but he should not have left in the middle of training camp. What I will say that it did seem like after halftime when the knicks would get down Fisher would scrap the triangle and go with a more PnR based offense.

Yeah, he would run a 4/5 pick and roll with Melo and Rolo that was very effective. But he would save it for the 4th quarter. It allowed us to catch teams by surprise.

Ok, great young coach may be too strong.

But I thought he was a very promising young coach. And it really did seem like Melo trusted him, and KP, too.

I was mystified by his firing and I complained it seemed like he was being fired because he moved away from the Triangle at the time and some dudes here erupted in Phil support. Those same dudes were very pro-Rambis. Which is fine, except it turns out all the players hate Rambis, who has one of the worst winning percentages of any head coach ever.

I agree he was fired because he moved away from the triangle plus Phil did it during the season so he could give Rambis a shot at the crown to show Dolan that Rambis is all he needed. What is really dumb about the whole Rambis situation is that Phil could have made him his head coach to start but chose to look elsewhere.

I am beginning to think that Melo eruption in March was not a dis at JH but a dig at Rambis only and that has got Phil angrier than ever.

yellowboy90 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

holfresh wrote:Phil basically said Rambis is the only one who knew how to run his offense equally as he does in the press conference..He said he has not "mentor" more next season...He said the same about Fisher(mentor)after season one..

I said at the time Fisher was fired because he moved away from the Triangle and was told that was not true.

Fisher was a great young coach. It was clear Melo and KP respected the hell out of him. Phil's first MAJOR mistake was firing Fisher. I didn't love the Tyson trade, or giving away Shump and JR. But Fish rolled with it and had the team playing respectable, team ball last season. Melo's highest assist season of his career. KP looked like Rookie of the Year while Fisher was here. Phil fired him because he wouldn't run the Triangle enough and wouldn't let Phil in on his practices. Phil wants a puppet coach like Rambis or apparently Hornacek. It's been downhill since the Fisher firing, and the steering wheel has flown off at this point.

I would not go that far. He had a lot of in game and late game problems too. I do not care if he dated Barnes girl but he should not have left in the middle of training camp. What I will say that it did seem like after halftime when the knicks would get down Fisher would scrap the triangle and go with a more PnR based offense.

Yeah, he would run a 4/5 pick and roll with Melo and Rolo that was very effective. But he would save it for the 4th quarter. It allowed us to catch teams by surprise.

Ok, great young coach may be too strong.

But I thought he was a very promising young coach. And it really did seem like Melo trusted him, and KP, too.

I was mystified by his firing and I complained it seemed like he was being fired because he moved away from the Triangle at the time and some dudes here erupted in Phil support. Those same dudes were very pro-Rambis. Which is fine, except it turns out all the players hate Rambis, who has one of the worst winning percentages of any head coach ever.

I agree he was fired because he moved away from the triangle plus Phil did it during the season so he could give Rambis a shot at the crown to show Dolan that Rambis is all he needed. What is really dumb about the whole Rambis situation is that Phil could have made him his head coach to start but chose to look elsewhere.

I am beginning to think that Melo eruption in March was not a dis at JH but a dig at Rambis only and that has got Phil angrier than ever.

Yup, I read elsewhere that Melo said JH should have never changed his style of play...

holfresh wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

holfresh wrote:Phil basically said Rambis is the only one who knew how to run his offense equally as he does in the press conference..He said he has not "mentor" more next season...He said the same about Fisher(mentor)after season one..

I said at the time Fisher was fired because he moved away from the Triangle and was told that was not true.

Fisher was a great young coach. It was clear Melo and KP respected the hell out of him. Phil's first MAJOR mistake was firing Fisher. I didn't love the Tyson trade, or giving away Shump and JR. But Fish rolled with it and had the team playing respectable, team ball last season. Melo's highest assist season of his career. KP looked like Rookie of the Year while Fisher was here. Phil fired him because he wouldn't run the Triangle enough and wouldn't let Phil in on his practices. Phil wants a puppet coach like Rambis or apparently Hornacek. It's been downhill since the Fisher firing, and the steering wheel has flown off at this point.

I would not go that far. He had a lot of in game and late game problems too. I do not care if he dated Barnes girl but he should not have left in the middle of training camp. What I will say that it did seem like after halftime when the knicks would get down Fisher would scrap the triangle and go with a more PnR based offense.

Yeah, he would run a 4/5 pick and roll with Melo and Rolo that was very effective. But he would save it for the 4th quarter. It allowed us to catch teams by surprise.

Ok, great young coach may be too strong.

But I thought he was a very promising young coach. And it really did seem like Melo trusted him, and KP, too.

I was mystified by his firing and I complained it seemed like he was being fired because he moved away from the Triangle at the time and some dudes here erupted in Phil support. Those same dudes were very pro-Rambis. Which is fine, except it turns out all the players hate Rambis, who has one of the worst winning percentages of any head coach ever.

I agree he was fired because he moved away from the triangle plus Phil did it during the season so he could give Rambis a shot at the crown to show Dolan that Rambis is all he needed. What is really dumb about the whole Rambis situation is that Phil could have made him his head coach to start but chose to look elsewhere.

I am beginning to think that Melo eruption in March was not a dis at JH but a dig at Rambis only and that has got Phil angrier than ever.

Yup, I read elsewhere that Melo said JH should have never changed his style of play...

Hornacek clearly lost the team when he said they were moving back to the Triangle. They lost all respect for him.

I feel bad for Hornacek. He was put in a terrible position by Phil. But he's kinda cooked at this rate. He has no chance unless Rambis is fired.

yellowboy90 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

holfresh wrote:Phil basically said Rambis is the only one who knew how to run his offense equally as he does in the press conference..He said he has not "mentor" more next season...He said the same about Fisher(mentor)after season one..

I said at the time Fisher was fired because he moved away from the Triangle and was told that was not true.

Fisher was a great young coach. It was clear Melo and KP respected the hell out of him. Phil's first MAJOR mistake was firing Fisher. I didn't love the Tyson trade, or giving away Shump and JR. But Fish rolled with it and had the team playing respectable, team ball last season. Melo's highest assist season of his career. KP looked like Rookie of the Year while Fisher was here. Phil fired him because he wouldn't run the Triangle enough and wouldn't let Phil in on his practices. Phil wants a puppet coach like Rambis or apparently Hornacek. It's been downhill since the Fisher firing, and the steering wheel has flown off at this point.

I would not go that far. He had a lot of in game and late game problems too. I do not care if he dated Barnes girl but he should not have left in the middle of training camp. What I will say that it did seem like after halftime when the knicks would get down Fisher would scrap the triangle and go with a more PnR based offense.

Yeah, he would run a 4/5 pick and roll with Melo and Rolo that was very effective. But he would save it for the 4th quarter. It allowed us to catch teams by surprise.

Ok, great young coach may be too strong.

But I thought he was a very promising young coach. And it really did seem like Melo trusted him, and KP, too.

I was mystified by his firing and I complained it seemed like he was being fired because he moved away from the Triangle at the time and some dudes here erupted in Phil support. Those same dudes were very pro-Rambis. Which is fine, except it turns out all the players hate Rambis, who has one of the worst winning percentages of any head coach ever.

I agree he was fired because he moved away from the triangle plus Phil did it during the season so he could give Rambis a shot at the crown to show Dolan that Rambis is all he needed. What is really dumb about the whole Rambis situation is that Phil could have made him his head coach to start but chose to look elsewhere.

I am beginning to think that Melo eruption in March was not a dis at JH but a dig at Rambis only and that has got Phil angrier than ever.

crzymdups wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

holfresh wrote:Phil basically said Rambis is the only one who knew how to run his offense equally as he does in the press conference..He said he has not "mentor" more next season...He said the same about Fisher(mentor)after season one..

I said at the time Fisher was fired because he moved away from the Triangle and was told that was not true.

Fisher was a great young coach. It was clear Melo and KP respected the hell out of him. Phil's first MAJOR mistake was firing Fisher. I didn't love the Tyson trade, or giving away Shump and JR. But Fish rolled with it and had the team playing respectable, team ball last season. Melo's highest assist season of his career. KP looked like Rookie of the Year while Fisher was here. Phil fired him because he wouldn't run the Triangle enough and wouldn't let Phil in on his practices. Phil wants a puppet coach like Rambis or apparently Hornacek. It's been downhill since the Fisher firing, and the steering wheel has flown off at this point.

I would not go that far. He had a lot of in game and late game problems too. I do not care if he dated Barnes girl but he should not have left in the middle of training camp. What I will say that it did seem like after halftime when the knicks would get down Fisher would scrap the triangle and go with a more PnR based offense.

Yeah, he would run a 4/5 pick and roll with Melo and Rolo that was very effective. But he would save it for the 4th quarter. It allowed us to catch teams by surprise.

Ok, great young coach may be too strong.

But I thought he was a very promising young coach. And it really did seem like Melo trusted him, and KP, too.

I was mystified by his firing and I complained it seemed like he was being fired because he moved away from the Triangle at the time and some dudes here erupted in Phil support. Those same dudes were very pro-Rambis. Which is fine, except it turns out all the players hate Rambis, who has one of the worst winning percentages of any head coach ever.

Fisher's biggest knock as coach is that he could never settle on a starting lineup. Even when he found one that was playing well together. His reasoning was that it helped players adapt for any situation, but all it did was cause confusion, noone could get settled in their roles. Phil hired him while he was still a player, no coaching search, not to mention his fond affection for another players' wifes's........