Knicks · I think Triple Threat mentioned trading melo to Miami (page 1)

BRIGGS @ 4/28/2017 1:36 PM
For bosh's contract and pick 14 . I think if Miami was interested that would be a deal that would make great sense for us
EnySpree @ 4/28/2017 2:12 PM
BRIGGS wrote:For bosh's contract and pick 14 . I think if Miami was interested that would be a deal that would make great sense for us

What's Bosh situation though? Is he healthy enough to play? The media blowback and fan reaction would be nuclear. Miami would have to give us something else. I dunno... If Bosh was cleared to play he's still a hell of a ball player

crzymdups @ 4/28/2017 2:13 PM
EnySpree wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:For bosh's contract and pick 14 . I think if Miami was interested that would be a deal that would make great sense for us

What's Bosh situation though? Is he healthy enough to play? The media blowback and fan reaction would be nuclear. Miami would have to give us something else. I dunno... If Bosh was cleared to play he's still a hell of a ball player

He's never going to be cleared to play. We'd be taking him on as dead cap weight to get a 14 pick for Melo.

crzymdups @ 4/28/2017 2:14 PM
If the Knicks can't do better than this for Melo, it's going to be a loooooong rebuild indeed.
EnySpree @ 4/28/2017 2:16 PM
crzymdups wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:For bosh's contract and pick 14 . I think if Miami was interested that would be a deal that would make great sense for us

What's Bosh situation though? Is he healthy enough to play? The media blowback and fan reaction would be nuclear. Miami would have to give us something else. I dunno... If Bosh was cleared to play he's still a hell of a ball player

He's never going to be cleared to play. We'd be taking him on as dead cap weight to get a 14 pick for Melo.

I dunno if the Knicks can withstand that media firestorm.... but if we draft Diallo and he becomes the next big thing then.... sigh. It's s huge risk

JrZyHuStLa @ 4/28/2017 2:18 PM
Not happening.
EnySpree @ 4/28/2017 2:19 PM
JrZyHuStLa wrote:Not happening.

Good job

HofstraBBall @ 4/28/2017 2:24 PM
BRIGGS wrote:For bosh's contract and pick 14 . I think if Miami was interested that would be a deal that would make great sense for us

Very risky. Cant really say that there are any sure things at 14. You know how the Lotto draft goes. And Bosh? More dead cap added to Noah's. Dont think that is the type of deal I would think anyone would be happy with.

NYKBocker @ 4/28/2017 2:31 PM
Make it this years 1st round pick and a future 1st rounder to go with Bosh and we have a deal.
crzymdups @ 4/28/2017 2:33 PM
I would love to get pick 14 in this draft and take OG Anunoby... but if we do them the massive favor of taking Bosh off their cap, I'd like something else in return as well...

I've seen Heat beat writer suggest Ira Winderman suggested Bosh and Justice Winslow.

knicks1248 @ 4/28/2017 2:36 PM
riley didn't even want to give (Fan Favorite)wade, who help the francise win 3 titles, 20 mill because of his age. why on earth would he trade for $30 million 33 yr old player.

Why would melo go there after his best friends left..lmao

BRIGGS @ 4/28/2017 2:49 PM
crzymdups wrote:I would love to get pick 14 in this draft and take OG Anunoby... but if we do them the massive favor of taking Bosh off their cap, I'd like something else in return as well...

I've seen Heat beat writer suggest Ira Winderman suggested Bosh and Justice Winslow.

I think Bosh's contract would be picked up by insurance and runs the same length as Melo's. Also we can use it to trade it if needed in 6 months.

crzymdups @ 4/28/2017 2:59 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
crzymdups wrote:I would love to get pick 14 in this draft and take OG Anunoby... but if we do them the massive favor of taking Bosh off their cap, I'd like something else in return as well...

I've seen Heat beat writer suggest Ira Winderman suggested Bosh and Justice Winslow.

I think Bosh's contract would be picked up by insurance and runs the same length as Melo's. Also we can use it to trade it if needed in 6 months.

That's a fair point - it's a massive expiring at some point. And one with no trade restrictions on it.

Nalod @ 4/28/2017 6:43 PM
I thought his would be an exemption as long as he don't try to play again. Maybe Briggs can explain how it worked.

Nalod got first dibs on Melo to Miami going back a while.
Ill take the 14 or Justise Winslow.

crzymdups @ 4/28/2017 6:44 PM
Nalod wrote:I thought his would be an exemption as long as he don't try to play again. Maybe Briggs can explain how it worked.

Nalod got first dibs on Melo to Miami going back a while.
Ill take the 14 or Justise Winslow.

I think the issue is that Bosh doesn't want to retire. But the heat won't clear him to play.

wargames @ 4/28/2017 9:07 PM
Nalod wrote:I thought his would be an exemption as long as he don't try to play again. Maybe Briggs can explain how it worked.

Nalod got first dibs on Melo to Miami going back a while.
Ill take the 14 or Justise Winslow.

Why not take both?

Also there is the potential for much larger deal in Miami than most people realize.

If Miami includes Goran Dragic, McRoberts, Bosh, and Winslow (and pick #14) in the Melo deal. Miami will have enough cap space for Melo and CP3 and the rest of their FA (minus Waiters). They could come in a the second best team in East that could be weakened with PG going out west.
Whiteside
J Johnson
Melo
Wayne Ellington
CP3

Tyler Johnson

add some minimum vets to ring chase by playing defense (maybe even Wade....) and I don't see how Riley doesn't agree to that trade. That is a legit top 2 team in the east.

Knicks can then keep Dragic or flip him for picks and youth or keep him alongside Winslow, pick #14 and McRoberts.

That to me is the best deal the knicks could hope for. Youth, an upgrade at point (who they should trade for more picks & youth) and a pick for Melo. That's the only real chance I see of Riley being competitive in these final years as Miami's GM.

wargames @ 4/28/2017 9:14 PM
knicks1248 wrote:riley didn't even want to give (Fan Favorite)wade, who help the francise win 3 titles, 20 mill because of his age. why on earth would he trade for $30 million 33 yr old player.

Why would melo go there after his best friends left..lmao

On the low with Bosh's contract being basically a large TPE. The Heat are one of the few teams that can shed non essential salary and add Cp3 and Melo to their roster. Basically exchanging Dragic and Waiters for CP3 and Melo while keeping the majority of the players they went on that 30 - 11 run with.

Its a major upgrade for them and arguably the best haul (Dragic, Winslow, pick #14) that the knicks could get.

TripleThreat @ 4/29/2017 12:59 AM
EnySpree wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:For bosh's contract and pick 14 . I think if Miami was interested that would be a deal that would make great sense for us

What's Bosh situation though? Is he healthy enough to play? The media blowback and fan reaction would be nuclear. Miami would have to give us something else. I dunno... If Bosh was cleared to play he's still a hell of a ball player

1) Chris Bosh will never play in the NBA ever again, unless he uses the "nuclear option" Odds are, he will not go that far, but it remains to be seen.

2) Chris Bosh and his contract, IF, and it's a huge IF, the new "Chris Bosh Rule" within the new CBA applies as many predict ( no one can be totally certain), his contract will WIPE OFF ENTIRELY IN TERMS OF SALARY CAP COMMITMENT. This will require the NBAPA and the NBA itself to find independent medical review who will determine if Bosh can ever play again. ( Consider the NBA has 30 owners, tied in politics and big business, and the networks and sponsors have huge reach and influence in all areas of commerce and entertainment. Anyone crazy enough to try to clear Chris Bosh medically would likely face massive informal retaliation by the NBA, the networks and Nike, etc, etc. Both the NBAPA and the NBA administration have incentives in place to pick a panel or physician who will be league/union friendly to making sure Bosh never plays again.)

3) The issue in play is CASH HIT versus CAP HIT. The CAP HIT clears off the books, but you still owe Chris Bosh every last single penny of that contract. He's owed about 76 million, of which 41 million IN THEORY would be covered by insurance. That means while the Heat can avoid his cap charge, he will cost them 35 million out of pocket to never ever play for them again. Operationally the problem is as the cap space clears, there is internal pressure and external pressure to spend that open cap space to improve the team. Can you see the cash hit problem getting bigger? You are paying 26 million the upcoming season to a guy in cash to NOT PLAY FOR YOU, then you spend that same 26 million for other players, while their contracts count against the cap, you are spending 52 million IN CASH for 26 million in actual cap space and the value of that to acquire new players. And that's just for ONE SEASON.

4) In THEORY, if the Knicks traded for Chris Bosh, sending Melo in the deal for a salary match with other smaller pieces moving to make it fit, what would hopefully happen for the Knicks is the medical panel would say Bosh could not play, the cap charge CLEARS ENTIRELY, but the cash hit remains. Since the Knicks are one of the most cash rich teams in the league, they would be essentially spending 35 million to buy either draft picks or roster assets, with Melo only operating as a "wash" to facilitate the trade. The primary reason for making a deal for the Heat would be to simply save 35 million in cash hit. The secondary reason would be getting something of value for what is essentially a dead contract. Melo, even with all his limitations, at least he can play and suit up. The third reason would be moving Bosh off the roster would forward the Bosh problem to the Knicks. All the knotty details would be inherited by the Knicks.

Here is where it gets fuzzy.

All of the pro sports, the CBAs in place are designed to prevent cash rich teams from creating or exploiting loopholes to use a cash advantage to improve their team. This is why teams are capped at 3 million to add into a trade. If the Knicks could add as much as they wanted, that cash war chest is a huge advantage ( Case in point, when the Yankees and Red Sox were going to war over international free agents like Jose Contreras and Dice K, and no other team even had a chance in hell because they couldn't afford the massive posting fees)

My best guess ( this is a very grey area of the CBA, since it's new and it's unclear how it would be applied) is that in order for the Knicks to get the cap clearance, they would need to trade for Bosh BEFORE his medical review. I.E. to do it after would be essentially the Heat selling Bosh and his cash hit to another team while using draft picks and assets to push the deal. No league is happy with the concept of outright "selling a player"

My other best guess is IF, a huge IF, the Knicks could do this, the loophole would be closed immediately afterwards in the next offseason when the owners meet.

The base mechanism for the Chris Bosh Rule is prevent a player ( for example crippled in a car accident) from being a punitive contract for a team in what amounts to a Hand Of God situation. You want to hold teams accountable for the choices, you don't want to make them non competitive for half a decade because some random drunk driver mowed down a player crossing the street. It is not designed by intent to form a loophole for cash rich team. That being said, until the loophole is potentially closed, the Knicks could take advantage of it.

The "nuclear option" is that Bosh might just come forward and come out. I don't like to delve too deeply into players personal lives until it starts to impact the actual roster and the business of winning. The unpleasant rumor is that Bosh has/had an "alternative" lifestyle and is HIV positive. Blood clotting issues are risk factors associated with advanced stages of HIV. ( There are other potential reasons of course, as well) If Bosh is not medically cleared, and he won't be, then he can go forward to the press, and say the players union and league are in collusion to keep out out of the league because if his lifestyle choices. The league and NBAPA would be leveraged by bad PR to let him play. The league and NBAPA would counter by digging up every last piece of dirt on Bosh, and releasing it through "unnamed sources" and hammer Bosh in the court of public opinion.

This is complicated because this is essentially ruling against a players ability to play period. You can do that if there is gambling involved, but other than that, other than something like Aaron Hernandez or Rae Carruth killing someone, it opens up a sticky can of worms where pro sports doesn't want to go ( i.e. becoming legal precedent and losing what it has always enjoyed - essentially to be left alone by the government in general)

Phil Knight and the story of how he basically opened the cash war chest to make Oregon a football power shows what a cash rich situation can do to change a team's fortunes. OK, so you can't just outright pay players ( who are we kidding right? Nike money was being shoved in pockets all around the US to make Oregon into something it never was before) But openly, there are no rules that you can't spend a truck of cash to build a state of the art training facility and pay top notch money to the best coaching prospects. Cash rich teams can exploit competitive advantages in place, even as rules are designed to stop them.

The Knicks could potentially get Melo off the roster, pick up some draft picks or young assets ( hard to say what), and clear out cap space to sign other guys, all for eating a cash hit. Mickey Arison dumped Mike Miller to save a little bit of money in a contending year, who is to say what he would or would not do to save 35 million in cash.

As a sports narrative, even if the Knicks never make a trade for Bosh, it is IMHO a pretty fascinating test case for how the real world, the media, marketing and sports in general can collide in unexpected ways.

Paris907 @ 4/29/2017 5:43 PM
Excellent "expose" by triple threat
Paris907 @ 4/29/2017 6:03 PM
How much is left on Melo's contract. ? Doesn't buying him out accomplish the same thing and leave us well under cap going forward. Melo may not play ball so to speak
NardDogNation @ 4/29/2017 6:28 PM
Could we instead take a bad contract from TOR (i.e. DeMarre Carroll) along with their pick for cap space; then flip our remaining cap space and that TOR pick for Bosh and MIAs pick?

What about Kyle O'Quinn and cap space for MIAs pick, Willie Reed and Chris Bosh?

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