Knicks · I see melo staying for another yr, makes the most sense (page 4)

knicks1248 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:lol @ Melo staying for another year

We'll see. I think Phil is going to be forced to keep Melo or waive him or take back really bad contracts in a trade. I hope I'm wrong and some GM really wants Melo. I don't think Melo staying is that far-fetched even though it would create a dysfunctional environment. Probably not more dysfunction than we're used to though.

its ridiculous. Melo will not be here. But sure.. "we'll see."

Are you serious?

I mean, how can you not see the possible outcome where Phil fails to trade Melo? Not unrealistic given the fact that Melo's value is at an all time low, his contract is hard to match up, he has a NTC and a trade kicker?

And he's stated just about every time that he wants to stay.

Would it be distracting and dysfunctional if he stayed? Yes. More so than our prior years of dysfunction? Probably not.

The cap is only going up about $9M - to $103M.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/projec...

I don't see a ton of teams having the kind of cap room that they can just acquire Melo without sending back major contracts.

Like Bonn, I hope I'm wrong, and Melo finds a new home for next year.

IDK what to expect. I could imagine Phil doing a terrible deal just to avoid having to Melo back.

I just watch that pavvy video and im starting to re think this thing..

Phil never ever said he didn't want melo here, the MEDIA took the "MELO WOULD BE BETTER PLAYING SOMEWHERE ELSE" to new levels, those headlines got posted on every media sports headlines. BUT he also said this base on his age, his skills, and his window and the direction of the knicks..you could easily conclude that he just stated that as melo's best INTEREST.

He also said..IM NOT GOING TO DUMP HIM with a trade, or waive him, THATS NOT EVEN A OPTION..

We'll see what the market bares............

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:lol @ Melo staying for another year

We'll see. I think Phil is going to be forced to keep Melo or waive him or take back really bad contracts in a trade. I hope I'm wrong and some GM really wants Melo. I don't think Melo staying is that far-fetched even though it would create a dysfunctional environment. Probably not more dysfunction than we're used to though.

its ridiculous. Melo will not be here. But sure.. "we'll see."

Are you serious?

I mean, how can you not see the possible outcome where Phil fails to trade Melo? Not unrealistic given the fact that Melo's value is at an all time low, his contract is hard to match up, he has a NTC and a trade kicker?

And he's stated just about every time that he wants to stay.

Would it be distracting and dysfunctional if he stayed? Yes. More so than our prior years of dysfunction? Probably not.

The cap is only going up about $9M - to $103M.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/projec...

I don't see a ton of teams having the kind of cap room that they can just acquire Melo without sending back major contracts.

Like Bonn, I hope I'm wrong, and Melo finds a new home for next year.

IDK what to expect. I could imagine Phil doing a terrible deal just to avoid having to Melo back.

I just watch that pavvy video and im starting to re think this thing..

Phil never ever said he didn't want melo here, the MEDIA took the "MELO WOULD BE BETTER PLAYING SOMEWHERE ELSE" to new levels, those headlines got posted on every media sports headlines. BUT he also said this base on his age, his skills, and his window and the direction of the knicks..you could easily conclude that he just stated that as melo's best INTEREST.

He also said..IM NOT GOING TO DUMP HIM with a trade, or waive him, THATS NOT EVEN A OPTION..

So you have been hammering us with this for months now and your backing off? Dude, Melo's gone. Just let it play out.

My issue has never been about melo,(couldn't careless if he goes or stays) it's always been about the half a dozen other major issues we have that most of seem to ignore.. like

1)the rest of the roster is trash, all shooting under 42%
2)noah is worthless
3)lance is worthless
4)no pg
5a)triangle bull shhhht
5b)rambis
6)building a roster around 7 footers in a league were 3's are 50% of the scoring attempts

but you guys are content with getting rid of melo, as the only priority

fishmike wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:lol @ Melo staying for another year

We'll see. I think Phil is going to be forced to keep Melo or waive him or take back really bad contracts in a trade. I hope I'm wrong and some GM really wants Melo. I don't think Melo staying is that far-fetched even though it would create a dysfunctional environment. Probably not more dysfunction than we're used to though.

its ridiculous. Melo will not be here. But sure.. "we'll see."

Are you serious?

I mean, how can you not see the possible outcome where Phil fails to trade Melo? Not unrealistic given the fact that Melo's value is at an all time low, his contract is hard to match up, he has a NTC and a trade kicker?

And he's stated just about every time that he wants to stay.

Would it be distracting and dysfunctional if he stayed? Yes. More so than our prior years of dysfunction? Probably not.

The cap is only going up about $9M - to $103M.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/projec...

I don't see a ton of teams having the kind of cap room that they can just acquire Melo without sending back major contracts.

Like Bonn, I hope I'm wrong, and Melo finds a new home for next year.

YOU dont see because you cant envision anything positive happening for the Knicks. Melo will most certainly be gone, and he has said point blank when not wanted he will move on.

People that think he's going to ride it out or play Phil tough no nothing about Melo and simply have no paid attention to his career. Melo above all else wants to be wanted. Doc Rivers said point blank the Clippers would trade for him and his exact quote was "all those trades mentioned in the papers.. we would have done those trades."

So no.. he may say he wants to stay but never says he is.

Melo will give the Knicks a list of teams.. probably a small list, like Lakers, Clippers, Celtics and Cavs. Knicks will call those teams find the best offer and pull the trigger. This should not be hard to envision.

I'd be interested in seeing your vision of what an equitable trade with those 4 teams might look like, given that is is not difficult.

Well as a starting point we know that Crawford/Rivers for Melo works financially and that Doc Rivers said point blank "we make that trade."

I like Austin Rivers. I think he's a player that has been trending upward for some time. We also know Hornecek and Phil visited Rivers and recruited him heavily. Jamal Crawford is a very expensive bench scorer. I dont know if you can take a finder for him or not but that is the starting point of your trades. After that you see what the other teams offer.

The Lakers want big talent and Magic will want some star power. Lakers are interesting because they have 3 good young prospects in Russell, Ingram and Randle. They also have some really bad contract in guys like Deng and Mosgov, so some combo there is possible as well.

I dont anticipate the kind of trade that nets multiple picks and prospects, but I dont expect a pure dump either. Knicks will get something back.

Rivers and Crawford? I'd rather just take a gamble that Melo will be less bad next year. If LAC threw in a 1st round pick, that would be a different story. I'd even include our 2nd round pick, which would mean they're probably just trading down from like 22 to 38. But I couldn't do that player exchange alone. I don't think that highly of Melo's approach to the game but I don't want anything to do with those guys on their contracts.

fishmike wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:lol @ Melo staying for another year

We'll see. I think Phil is going to be forced to keep Melo or waive him or take back really bad contracts in a trade. I hope I'm wrong and some GM really wants Melo. I don't think Melo staying is that far-fetched even though it would create a dysfunctional environment. Probably not more dysfunction than we're used to though.

its ridiculous. Melo will not be here. But sure.. "we'll see."

Are you serious?

I mean, how can you not see the possible outcome where Phil fails to trade Melo? Not unrealistic given the fact that Melo's value is at an all time low, his contract is hard to match up, he has a NTC and a trade kicker?

And he's stated just about every time that he wants to stay.

Would it be distracting and dysfunctional if he stayed? Yes. More so than our prior years of dysfunction? Probably not.

The cap is only going up about $9M - to $103M.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/projec...

I don't see a ton of teams having the kind of cap room that they can just acquire Melo without sending back major contracts.

Like Bonn, I hope I'm wrong, and Melo finds a new home for next year.

YOU dont see because you cant envision anything positive happening for the Knicks. Melo will most certainly be gone, and he has said point blank when not wanted he will move on.

People that think he's going to ride it out or play Phil tough no nothing about Melo and simply have no paid attention to his career. Melo above all else wants to be wanted. Doc Rivers said point blank the Clippers would trade for him and his exact quote was "all those trades mentioned in the papers.. we would have done those trades."

So no.. he may say he wants to stay but never says he is.

Melo will give the Knicks a list of teams.. probably a small list, like Lakers, Clippers, Celtics and Cavs. Knicks will call those teams find the best offer and pull the trigger. This should not be hard to envision.

I'd be interested in seeing your vision of what an equitable trade with those 4 teams might look like, given that is is not difficult.

Well as a starting point we know that Crawford/Rivers for Melo works financially and that Doc Rivers said point blank "we make that trade."

I like Austin Rivers. I think he's a player that has been trending upward for some time. We also know Hornecek and Phil visited Rivers and recruited him heavily. Jamal Crawford is a very expensive bench scorer. I dont know if you can take a finder for him or not but that is the starting point of your trades. After that you see what the other teams offer.

The Lakers want big talent and Magic will want some star power. Lakers are interesting because they have 3 good young prospects in Russell, Ingram and Randle. They also have some really bad contract in guys like Deng and Mosgov, so some combo there is possible as well.

I dont anticipate the kind of trade that nets multiple picks and prospects, but I dont expect a pure dump either. Knicks will get something back.

The problem with Austin Rivers is he has a player option for next year.

Under the scenario in which he continues to evolve as a player, you're taking on $29m for Jamal Crawford to purchase one year and the Bird rights to Rivers next summer. That's very limited upside unless you expect the Knicks to do something in 2017-18.

Also not seeing how taking on Deng or Mosgov for $50-55m is worth the price of admission for some talented prospects with question marks.

Would like to hear your thoughts on Celtics or Cavs.

Love is pretty much the only way the latter could happen, right?

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:lol @ Melo staying for another year

We'll see. I think Phil is going to be forced to keep Melo or waive him or take back really bad contracts in a trade. I hope I'm wrong and some GM really wants Melo. I don't think Melo staying is that far-fetched even though it would create a dysfunctional environment. Probably not more dysfunction than we're used to though.

its ridiculous. Melo will not be here. But sure.. "we'll see."

Are you serious?

I mean, how can you not see the possible outcome where Phil fails to trade Melo? Not unrealistic given the fact that Melo's value is at an all time low, his contract is hard to match up, he has a NTC and a trade kicker?

And he's stated just about every time that he wants to stay.

Would it be distracting and dysfunctional if he stayed? Yes. More so than our prior years of dysfunction? Probably not.

The cap is only going up about $9M - to $103M.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/projec...

I don't see a ton of teams having the kind of cap room that they can just acquire Melo without sending back major contracts.

Like Bonn, I hope I'm wrong, and Melo finds a new home for next year.

IDK what to expect. I could imagine Phil doing a terrible deal just to avoid having to Melo back.

I just watch that pavvy video and im starting to re think this thing..

Phil never ever said he didn't want melo here, the MEDIA took the "MELO WOULD BE BETTER PLAYING SOMEWHERE ELSE" to new levels, those headlines got posted on every media sports headlines. BUT he also said this base on his age, his skills, and his window and the direction of the knicks..you could easily conclude that he just stated that as melo's best INTEREST.

He also said..IM NOT GOING TO DUMP HIM with a trade, or waive him, THATS NOT EVEN A OPTION..

So you have been hammering us with this for months now and your backing off? Dude, Melo's gone. Just let it play out.

My issue has never been about melo,(couldn't careless if he goes or stays) it's always been about the half a dozen other major issues we have that most of seem to ignore.. like

1)the rest of the roster is trash, all shooting under 42%
2)noah is worthless
3)lance is worthless
4)no pg
5a)triangle bull shhhht
5b)rambis
6)building a roster around 7 footers in a league were 3's are 50% of the scoring attempts

but you guys are content with getting rid of melo, as the only priority

7 footers who shoot 3s is a future of nba

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:lol @ Melo staying for another year

We'll see. I think Phil is going to be forced to keep Melo or waive him or take back really bad contracts in a trade. I hope I'm wrong and some GM really wants Melo. I don't think Melo staying is that far-fetched even though it would create a dysfunctional environment. Probably not more dysfunction than we're used to though.

its ridiculous. Melo will not be here. But sure.. "we'll see."

Are you serious?

I mean, how can you not see the possible outcome where Phil fails to trade Melo? Not unrealistic given the fact that Melo's value is at an all time low, his contract is hard to match up, he has a NTC and a trade kicker?

And he's stated just about every time that he wants to stay.

Would it be distracting and dysfunctional if he stayed? Yes. More so than our prior years of dysfunction? Probably not.

The cap is only going up about $9M - to $103M.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/projec...

I don't see a ton of teams having the kind of cap room that they can just acquire Melo without sending back major contracts.

Like Bonn, I hope I'm wrong, and Melo finds a new home for next year.

IDK what to expect. I could imagine Phil doing a terrible deal just to avoid having to Melo back.

I just watch that pavvy video and im starting to re think this thing..

Phil never ever said he didn't want melo here, the MEDIA took the "MELO WOULD BE BETTER PLAYING SOMEWHERE ELSE" to new levels, those headlines got posted on every media sports headlines. BUT he also said this base on his age, his skills, and his window and the direction of the knicks..you could easily conclude that he just stated that as melo's best INTEREST.

He also said..IM NOT GOING TO DUMP HIM with a trade, or waive him, THATS NOT EVEN A OPTION..

So you have been hammering us with this for months now and your backing off? Dude, Melo's gone. Just let it play out.

My issue has never been about melo,(couldn't careless if he goes or stays) it's always been about the half a dozen other major issues we have that most of seem to ignore.. like

1)the rest of the roster is trash, all shooting under 42%
2)noah is worthless
3)lance is worthless
4)no pg
5a)triangle bull shhhht
5b)rambis
6)building a roster around 7 footers in a league were 3's are 50% of the scoring attempts

but you guys are content with getting rid of melo, as the only priority

Melo is theoretically something that can change.

Who/what he goes for and its effect on the team is ripe for speculation.

Your 2, 3, 5a, 5b, 6 don't really lend themselves to discussion, other than to shout at the rain about.

Knickoftime wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:lol @ Melo staying for another year

We'll see. I think Phil is going to be forced to keep Melo or waive him or take back really bad contracts in a trade. I hope I'm wrong and some GM really wants Melo. I don't think Melo staying is that far-fetched even though it would create a dysfunctional environment. Probably not more dysfunction than we're used to though.

its ridiculous. Melo will not be here. But sure.. "we'll see."

Are you serious?

I mean, how can you not see the possible outcome where Phil fails to trade Melo? Not unrealistic given the fact that Melo's value is at an all time low, his contract is hard to match up, he has a NTC and a trade kicker?

And he's stated just about every time that he wants to stay.

Would it be distracting and dysfunctional if he stayed? Yes. More so than our prior years of dysfunction? Probably not.

The cap is only going up about $9M - to $103M.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/projec...

I don't see a ton of teams having the kind of cap room that they can just acquire Melo without sending back major contracts.

Like Bonn, I hope I'm wrong, and Melo finds a new home for next year.

YOU dont see because you cant envision anything positive happening for the Knicks. Melo will most certainly be gone, and he has said point blank when not wanted he will move on.

People that think he's going to ride it out or play Phil tough no nothing about Melo and simply have no paid attention to his career. Melo above all else wants to be wanted. Doc Rivers said point blank the Clippers would trade for him and his exact quote was "all those trades mentioned in the papers.. we would have done those trades."

So no.. he may say he wants to stay but never says he is.

Melo will give the Knicks a list of teams.. probably a small list, like Lakers, Clippers, Celtics and Cavs. Knicks will call those teams find the best offer and pull the trigger. This should not be hard to envision.

I'd be interested in seeing your vision of what an equitable trade with those 4 teams might look like, given that is is not difficult.

Well as a starting point we know that Crawford/Rivers for Melo works financially and that Doc Rivers said point blank "we make that trade."

I like Austin Rivers. I think he's a player that has been trending upward for some time. We also know Hornecek and Phil visited Rivers and recruited him heavily. Jamal Crawford is a very expensive bench scorer. I dont know if you can take a finder for him or not but that is the starting point of your trades. After that you see what the other teams offer.

The Lakers want big talent and Magic will want some star power. Lakers are interesting because they have 3 good young prospects in Russell, Ingram and Randle. They also have some really bad contract in guys like Deng and Mosgov, so some combo there is possible as well.

I dont anticipate the kind of trade that nets multiple picks and prospects, but I dont expect a pure dump either. Knicks will get something back.

The problem with Austin Rivers is he has a player option for next year.

Under the scenario in which he continues to evolve as a player, you're taking on $29m for Jamal Crawford to purchase one year and the Bird rights to Rivers next summer. That's very limited upside unless you expect the Knicks to do something in 2017-18.

Also not seeing how taking on Deng or Mosgov for $50-55m is worth the price of admission for some talented prospects with question marks.

Would like to hear your thoughts on Celtics or Cavs.

Love is pretty much the only way the latter could happen, right?

Yeah I'm not interested in that LA deal either. I don't picture anything of value coming for Melo. Phil made this bed. He's going to have to lie in it or make a worse bed.

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:lol @ Melo staying for another year

We'll see. I think Phil is going to be forced to keep Melo or waive him or take back really bad contracts in a trade. I hope I'm wrong and some GM really wants Melo. I don't think Melo staying is that far-fetched even though it would create a dysfunctional environment. Probably not more dysfunction than we're used to though.

its ridiculous. Melo will not be here. But sure.. "we'll see."

Are you serious?

I mean, how can you not see the possible outcome where Phil fails to trade Melo? Not unrealistic given the fact that Melo's value is at an all time low, his contract is hard to match up, he has a NTC and a trade kicker?

And he's stated just about every time that he wants to stay.

Would it be distracting and dysfunctional if he stayed? Yes. More so than our prior years of dysfunction? Probably not.

The cap is only going up about $9M - to $103M.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/projec...

I don't see a ton of teams having the kind of cap room that they can just acquire Melo without sending back major contracts.

Like Bonn, I hope I'm wrong, and Melo finds a new home for next year.

IDK what to expect. I could imagine Phil doing a terrible deal just to avoid having to Melo back.

I just watch that pavvy video and im starting to re think this thing..

Phil never ever said he didn't want melo here, the MEDIA took the "MELO WOULD BE BETTER PLAYING SOMEWHERE ELSE" to new levels, those headlines got posted on every media sports headlines. BUT he also said this base on his age, his skills, and his window and the direction of the knicks..you could easily conclude that he just stated that as melo's best INTEREST.

He also said..IM NOT GOING TO DUMP HIM with a trade, or waive him, THATS NOT EVEN A OPTION..

So you have been hammering us with this for months now and your backing off? Dude, Melo's gone. Just let it play out.

My issue has never been about melo,(couldn't careless if he goes or stays) it's always been about the half a dozen other major issues we have that most of seem to ignore.. like

1)the rest of the roster is trash, all shooting under 42%
2)noah is worthless
3)lance is worthless
4)no pg
5a)triangle bull shhhht
5b)rambis
6)building a roster around 7 footers in a league were 3's are 50% of the scoring attempts

but you guys are content with getting rid of melo, as the only priority

You are the one that simply doesn't get it. The Knicks tried to bring in FA's but you can't FORCE FA's to sign with your team when you are coming off losing seasons. NEVER did we have a winning situation when we had the cap space to bring FA's in. So you end up with less talented rosters.

This means that we need the draft to rebuild. Unfortunately the gave away the picks Phil could've used. Still Phil has been able to start the process. You want better perimeter players! So does Phil and he will have a chance to add those players. Don't knock the fact that we drafted KP and Willy!!! You can't knock taking the BPA when you draft. We did that with KP and Willy. Now we can look to add PG, SG and SF to the mix.

By the way Phil did try to add 3pt shooting so I have no idea what you're talking about. We need more but to say that it hasn't been part of the process isn't accurate.

Moonangie wrote:

ESOMKnicks wrote:The Clippers do not have future picks. Isn't their first tradeable pick a 2021 one? That one will be for our kids and grandkids to cheer about.

If we don't get decent return, we should not make the trade, it is simple enough. Rivers and Crawford, or a pick into the next millenium are not decent return. And I doubt anyone will offer us anything better.

I'd accept that deal. That 2021 pick would have to be unprotected, and could be just what we need as KP & Willy hit their prime years, to inject a youthful dose of BOOM into our championship aspirations. Clippers will suck in 2021, so it's gonna be lottery.

100%...that is a Nets/ Boston deal.

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:lol @ Melo staying for another year

We'll see. I think Phil is going to be forced to keep Melo or waive him or take back really bad contracts in a trade. I hope I'm wrong and some GM really wants Melo. I don't think Melo staying is that far-fetched even though it would create a dysfunctional environment. Probably not more dysfunction than we're used to though.

its ridiculous. Melo will not be here. But sure.. "we'll see."

Are you serious?

I mean, how can you not see the possible outcome where Phil fails to trade Melo? Not unrealistic given the fact that Melo's value is at an all time low, his contract is hard to match up, he has a NTC and a trade kicker?

And he's stated just about every time that he wants to stay.

Would it be distracting and dysfunctional if he stayed? Yes. More so than our prior years of dysfunction? Probably not.

The cap is only going up about $9M - to $103M.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/projec...

I don't see a ton of teams having the kind of cap room that they can just acquire Melo without sending back major contracts.

Like Bonn, I hope I'm wrong, and Melo finds a new home for next year.

IDK what to expect. I could imagine Phil doing a terrible deal just to avoid having to Melo back.

I just watch that pavvy video and im starting to re think this thing..

Phil never ever said he didn't want melo here, the MEDIA took the "MELO WOULD BE BETTER PLAYING SOMEWHERE ELSE" to new levels, those headlines got posted on every media sports headlines. BUT he also said this base on his age, his skills, and his window and the direction of the knicks..you could easily conclude that he just stated that as melo's best INTEREST.

He also said..IM NOT GOING TO DUMP HIM with a trade, or waive him, THATS NOT EVEN A OPTION..

So you have been hammering us with this for months now and your backing off? Dude, Melo's gone. Just let it play out.

My issue has never been about melo,(couldn't careless if he goes or stays) it's always been about the half a dozen other major issues we have that most of seem to ignore.. like

1)the rest of the roster is trash, all shooting under 42%
2)noah is worthless
3)lance is worthless
4)no pg
5a)triangle bull shhhht
5b)rambis
6)building a roster around 7 footers in a league were 3's are 50% of the scoring attempts

but you guys are content with getting rid of melo, as the only priority

Building around two 7' have you seen Houston play they have Nene, Cappella and Anderson. Nene and Cappella don't shoot threes. Last I looked KP shoots threes. Lee shoots threes, Kuz shoots threes, Holiday shoots threes. Almost everyone shoots three. You keep saying triangle is BS but they never had trouble scoring. And the main guy isn't even all in. The big problem is defense, that is what the problem is. When the team's main guy doesn't give the max effort, its gonna have an effect and I include Rose in this category too. When Noah was playing he was rebounding at a crazy clip. Lance is actually a decent role player to have around. Lance is that role player if he joins a playoff team and makes an impact, your gonna say why Phil mess up and get rid of him.

You made up your mind like Melo's made up his and that is resistance.

ekstarks94 wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

ESOMKnicks wrote:The Clippers do not have future picks. Isn't their first tradeable pick a 2021 one? That one will be for our kids and grandkids to cheer about.

If we don't get decent return, we should not make the trade, it is simple enough. Rivers and Crawford, or a pick into the next millenium are not decent return. And I doubt anyone will offer us anything better.

I'd accept that deal. That 2021 pick would have to be unprotected, and could be just what we need as KP & Willy hit their prime years, to inject a youthful dose of BOOM into our championship aspirations. Clippers will suck in 2021, so it's gonna be lottery.

100%...that is a Nets/ Boston deal.

Yeah, Phil would be like 80 by the time that player hits his prime. Phil won't have interest in a 2021 pick!

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:lol @ Melo staying for another year

We'll see. I think Phil is going to be forced to keep Melo or waive him or take back really bad contracts in a trade. I hope I'm wrong and some GM really wants Melo. I don't think Melo staying is that far-fetched even though it would create a dysfunctional environment. Probably not more dysfunction than we're used to though.

its ridiculous. Melo will not be here. But sure.. "we'll see."

Are you serious?

I mean, how can you not see the possible outcome where Phil fails to trade Melo? Not unrealistic given the fact that Melo's value is at an all time low, his contract is hard to match up, he has a NTC and a trade kicker?

And he's stated just about every time that he wants to stay.

Would it be distracting and dysfunctional if he stayed? Yes. More so than our prior years of dysfunction? Probably not.

The cap is only going up about $9M - to $103M.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/projec...

I don't see a ton of teams having the kind of cap room that they can just acquire Melo without sending back major contracts.

Like Bonn, I hope I'm wrong, and Melo finds a new home for next year.

YOU dont see because you cant envision anything positive happening for the Knicks. Melo will most certainly be gone, and he has said point blank when not wanted he will move on.

People that think he's going to ride it out or play Phil tough no nothing about Melo and simply have no paid attention to his career. Melo above all else wants to be wanted. Doc Rivers said point blank the Clippers would trade for him and his exact quote was "all those trades mentioned in the papers.. we would have done those trades."

So no.. he may say he wants to stay but never says he is.

Melo will give the Knicks a list of teams.. probably a small list, like Lakers, Clippers, Celtics and Cavs. Knicks will call those teams find the best offer and pull the trigger. This should not be hard to envision.

I'd be interested in seeing your vision of what an equitable trade with those 4 teams might look like, given that is is not difficult.

Well as a starting point we know that Crawford/Rivers for Melo works financially and that Doc Rivers said point blank "we make that trade."

I like Austin Rivers. I think he's a player that has been trending upward for some time. We also know Hornecek and Phil visited Rivers and recruited him heavily. Jamal Crawford is a very expensive bench scorer. I dont know if you can take a finder for him or not but that is the starting point of your trades. After that you see what the other teams offer.

The Lakers want big talent and Magic will want some star power. Lakers are interesting because they have 3 good young prospects in Russell, Ingram and Randle. They also have some really bad contract in guys like Deng and Mosgov, so some combo there is possible as well.

I dont anticipate the kind of trade that nets multiple picks and prospects, but I dont expect a pure dump either. Knicks will get something back.

The problem with Austin Rivers is he has a player option for next year.

Under the scenario in which he continues to evolve as a player, you're taking on $29m for Jamal Crawford to purchase one year and the Bird rights to Rivers next summer. That's very limited upside unless you expect the Knicks to do something in 2017-18.

Also not seeing how taking on Deng or Mosgov for $50-55m is worth the price of admission for some talented prospects with question marks.

Would like to hear your thoughts on Celtics or Cavs.

Love is pretty much the only way the latter could happen, right?

Yeah I'm not interested in that LA deal either. I don't picture anything of value coming for Melo. Phil made this bed. He's going to have to lie in it or make a worse bed.

this is not a poker hand. This is team building. Melo represents more than his WS/48. You do understand that right?

There is no worse bed than a star player making a fortune that tunes out a FO and coaching staff. Changing that will be a start with the culture. How much talent they get in return remains to be seen.

As for the Austin Rivers opting out issue... let him. There wont half the league with huge space spacing offering him Allan Crabbe money. Most likely that ship has sailed. If I trade for Rivers and he explodes or continues his upward trend, than paying him is a good thing, not a bad.

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:lol @ Melo staying for another year

We'll see. I think Phil is going to be forced to keep Melo or waive him or take back really bad contracts in a trade. I hope I'm wrong and some GM really wants Melo. I don't think Melo staying is that far-fetched even though it would create a dysfunctional environment. Probably not more dysfunction than we're used to though.

its ridiculous. Melo will not be here. But sure.. "we'll see."

Are you serious?

I mean, how can you not see the possible outcome where Phil fails to trade Melo? Not unrealistic given the fact that Melo's value is at an all time low, his contract is hard to match up, he has a NTC and a trade kicker?

And he's stated just about every time that he wants to stay.

Would it be distracting and dysfunctional if he stayed? Yes. More so than our prior years of dysfunction? Probably not.

The cap is only going up about $9M - to $103M.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/projec...

I don't see a ton of teams having the kind of cap room that they can just acquire Melo without sending back major contracts.

Like Bonn, I hope I'm wrong, and Melo finds a new home for next year.

YOU dont see because you cant envision anything positive happening for the Knicks. Melo will most certainly be gone, and he has said point blank when not wanted he will move on.

People that think he's going to ride it out or play Phil tough no nothing about Melo and simply have no paid attention to his career. Melo above all else wants to be wanted. Doc Rivers said point blank the Clippers would trade for him and his exact quote was "all those trades mentioned in the papers.. we would have done those trades."

So no.. he may say he wants to stay but never says he is.

Melo will give the Knicks a list of teams.. probably a small list, like Lakers, Clippers, Celtics and Cavs. Knicks will call those teams find the best offer and pull the trigger. This should not be hard to envision.

I'd be interested in seeing your vision of what an equitable trade with those 4 teams might look like, given that is is not difficult.

Well as a starting point we know that Crawford/Rivers for Melo works financially and that Doc Rivers said point blank "we make that trade."

I like Austin Rivers. I think he's a player that has been trending upward for some time. We also know Hornecek and Phil visited Rivers and recruited him heavily. Jamal Crawford is a very expensive bench scorer. I dont know if you can take a finder for him or not but that is the starting point of your trades. After that you see what the other teams offer.

The Lakers want big talent and Magic will want some star power. Lakers are interesting because they have 3 good young prospects in Russell, Ingram and Randle. They also have some really bad contract in guys like Deng and Mosgov, so some combo there is possible as well.

I dont anticipate the kind of trade that nets multiple picks and prospects, but I dont expect a pure dump either. Knicks will get something back.

The problem with Austin Rivers is he has a player option for next year.

Under the scenario in which he continues to evolve as a player, you're taking on $29m for Jamal Crawford to purchase one year and the Bird rights to Rivers next summer. That's very limited upside unless you expect the Knicks to do something in 2017-18.

Also not seeing how taking on Deng or Mosgov for $50-55m is worth the price of admission for some talented prospects with question marks.

Would like to hear your thoughts on Celtics or Cavs.

Love is pretty much the only way the latter could happen, right?

Yeah I'm not interested in that LA deal either. I don't picture anything of value coming for Melo. Phil made this bed. He's going to have to lie in it or make a worse bed.

this is not a poker hand. This is team building. Melo represents more than his WS/48. You do understand that right?

There is no worse bed than a star player making a fortune that tunes out a FO and coaching staff. Changing that will be a start with the culture. How much talent they get in return remains to be seen.

As for the Austin Rivers opting out issue... let him. There wont half the league with huge space spacing offering him Allan Crabbe money. Most likely that ship has sailed. If I trade for Rivers and he explodes or continues his upward trend, than paying him is a good thing, not a bad.

Ah ha, I think I misunderstood you.

I thought you meant there's be a attractive market for Melo. You know seem to be suggesting it is more important to get rid of him and the Knicks will have to take an undesirable return with perhaps a hint of eventual upside.

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:lol @ Melo staying for another year

We'll see. I think Phil is going to be forced to keep Melo or waive him or take back really bad contracts in a trade. I hope I'm wrong and some GM really wants Melo. I don't think Melo staying is that far-fetched even though it would create a dysfunctional environment. Probably not more dysfunction than we're used to though.

its ridiculous. Melo will not be here. But sure.. "we'll see."

Are you serious?

I mean, how can you not see the possible outcome where Phil fails to trade Melo? Not unrealistic given the fact that Melo's value is at an all time low, his contract is hard to match up, he has a NTC and a trade kicker?

And he's stated just about every time that he wants to stay.

Would it be distracting and dysfunctional if he stayed? Yes. More so than our prior years of dysfunction? Probably not.

The cap is only going up about $9M - to $103M.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/projec...

I don't see a ton of teams having the kind of cap room that they can just acquire Melo without sending back major contracts.

Like Bonn, I hope I'm wrong, and Melo finds a new home for next year.

YOU dont see because you cant envision anything positive happening for the Knicks. Melo will most certainly be gone, and he has said point blank when not wanted he will move on.

People that think he's going to ride it out or play Phil tough no nothing about Melo and simply have no paid attention to his career. Melo above all else wants to be wanted. Doc Rivers said point blank the Clippers would trade for him and his exact quote was "all those trades mentioned in the papers.. we would have done those trades."

So no.. he may say he wants to stay but never says he is.

Melo will give the Knicks a list of teams.. probably a small list, like Lakers, Clippers, Celtics and Cavs. Knicks will call those teams find the best offer and pull the trigger. This should not be hard to envision.

I'd be interested in seeing your vision of what an equitable trade with those 4 teams might look like, given that is is not difficult.

Well as a starting point we know that Crawford/Rivers for Melo works financially and that Doc Rivers said point blank "we make that trade."

I like Austin Rivers. I think he's a player that has been trending upward for some time. We also know Hornecek and Phil visited Rivers and recruited him heavily. Jamal Crawford is a very expensive bench scorer. I dont know if you can take a finder for him or not but that is the starting point of your trades. After that you see what the other teams offer.

The Lakers want big talent and Magic will want some star power. Lakers are interesting because they have 3 good young prospects in Russell, Ingram and Randle. They also have some really bad contract in guys like Deng and Mosgov, so some combo there is possible as well.

I dont anticipate the kind of trade that nets multiple picks and prospects, but I dont expect a pure dump either. Knicks will get something back.

The problem with Austin Rivers is he has a player option for next year.

Under the scenario in which he continues to evolve as a player, you're taking on $29m for Jamal Crawford to purchase one year and the Bird rights to Rivers next summer. That's very limited upside unless you expect the Knicks to do something in 2017-18.

Also not seeing how taking on Deng or Mosgov for $50-55m is worth the price of admission for some talented prospects with question marks.

Would like to hear your thoughts on Celtics or Cavs.

Love is pretty much the only way the latter could happen, right?

Yeah I'm not interested in that LA deal either. I don't picture anything of value coming for Melo. Phil made this bed. He's going to have to lie in it or make a worse bed.

this is not a poker hand. This is team building. Melo represents more than his WS/48. You do understand that right?

There is no worse bed than a star player making a fortune that tunes out a FO and coaching staff. Changing that will be a start with the culture. How much talent they get in return remains to be seen.

As for the Austin Rivers opting out issue... let him. There wont half the league with huge space spacing offering him Allan Crabbe money. Most likely that ship has sailed. If I trade for Rivers and he explodes or continues his upward trend, than paying him is a good thing, not a bad.

I get it but I don't want two roster spots and $50+ mil on Rivers and Crawford. If you could buy out Melo for like $42 mil, I'd rather do that than add those guys. If not, I'm 50/50 on whether those guys are better than just waiving Melo. You're forced to play two bad players 55 min a game or deal with them complaining.

Knickoftime wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:lol @ Melo staying for another year

We'll see. I think Phil is going to be forced to keep Melo or waive him or take back really bad contracts in a trade. I hope I'm wrong and some GM really wants Melo. I don't think Melo staying is that far-fetched even though it would create a dysfunctional environment. Probably not more dysfunction than we're used to though.

its ridiculous. Melo will not be here. But sure.. "we'll see."

Are you serious?

I mean, how can you not see the possible outcome where Phil fails to trade Melo? Not unrealistic given the fact that Melo's value is at an all time low, his contract is hard to match up, he has a NTC and a trade kicker?

And he's stated just about every time that he wants to stay.

Would it be distracting and dysfunctional if he stayed? Yes. More so than our prior years of dysfunction? Probably not.

The cap is only going up about $9M - to $103M.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/projec...

I don't see a ton of teams having the kind of cap room that they can just acquire Melo without sending back major contracts.

Like Bonn, I hope I'm wrong, and Melo finds a new home for next year.

YOU dont see because you cant envision anything positive happening for the Knicks. Melo will most certainly be gone, and he has said point blank when not wanted he will move on.

People that think he's going to ride it out or play Phil tough no nothing about Melo and simply have no paid attention to his career. Melo above all else wants to be wanted. Doc Rivers said point blank the Clippers would trade for him and his exact quote was "all those trades mentioned in the papers.. we would have done those trades."

So no.. he may say he wants to stay but never says he is.

Melo will give the Knicks a list of teams.. probably a small list, like Lakers, Clippers, Celtics and Cavs. Knicks will call those teams find the best offer and pull the trigger. This should not be hard to envision.

I'd be interested in seeing your vision of what an equitable trade with those 4 teams might look like, given that is is not difficult.

Well as a starting point we know that Crawford/Rivers for Melo works financially and that Doc Rivers said point blank "we make that trade."

I like Austin Rivers. I think he's a player that has been trending upward for some time. We also know Hornecek and Phil visited Rivers and recruited him heavily. Jamal Crawford is a very expensive bench scorer. I dont know if you can take a finder for him or not but that is the starting point of your trades. After that you see what the other teams offer.

The Lakers want big talent and Magic will want some star power. Lakers are interesting because they have 3 good young prospects in Russell, Ingram and Randle. They also have some really bad contract in guys like Deng and Mosgov, so some combo there is possible as well.

I dont anticipate the kind of trade that nets multiple picks and prospects, but I dont expect a pure dump either. Knicks will get something back.

The problem with Austin Rivers is he has a player option for next year.

Under the scenario in which he continues to evolve as a player, you're taking on $29m for Jamal Crawford to purchase one year and the Bird rights to Rivers next summer. That's very limited upside unless you expect the Knicks to do something in 2017-18.

Also not seeing how taking on Deng or Mosgov for $50-55m is worth the price of admission for some talented prospects with question marks.

Would like to hear your thoughts on Celtics or Cavs.

Love is pretty much the only way the latter could happen, right?

Yeah I'm not interested in that LA deal either. I don't picture anything of value coming for Melo. Phil made this bed. He's going to have to lie in it or make a worse bed.

this is not a poker hand. This is team building. Melo represents more than his WS/48. You do understand that right?

There is no worse bed than a star player making a fortune that tunes out a FO and coaching staff. Changing that will be a start with the culture. How much talent they get in return remains to be seen.

As for the Austin Rivers opting out issue... let him. There wont half the league with huge space spacing offering him Allan Crabbe money. Most likely that ship has sailed. If I trade for Rivers and he explodes or continues his upward trend, than paying him is a good thing, not a bad.

Ah ha, I think I misunderstood you.

I thought you meant there's be a attractive market for Melo. You know seem to be suggesting it is more important to get rid of him and the Knicks will have to take an undesirable return with perhaps a hint of eventual upside.

attractive? I dont think it will be barren. If you are looking at Melo from the outside in he's got upside. He will be happier for one. He played this year under marital strife, and that will 100% take its a hit on performance. He will be happy to out of the Knicks. He will play better not feeling like he's got to carry an organization. He will be better playing a different role with better players. The question is how much to opposing GMs value him? Melo is certainly still an impact player and scorer. He will also be easier to aquire than some of the other options on the market. Its rare when teams can add a veteran player like Melo. There will be a market, it will really depend on how many teams he chooses to let the Knicks negotiate with. I am assuming its a small group like Bos/LA/LA/Cle and maybe another...

I dont think its important to get rid of him, its imperative. Once that happens many things will be revealed next year. Whether they are good or bad we will see, but with Phil here there is no other option, even if Kobe says otherwise. Kobe dealt directly with Phil. Melo isnt even doing that. This situation just needs to be moved on from.

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:lol @ Melo staying for another year

We'll see. I think Phil is going to be forced to keep Melo or waive him or take back really bad contracts in a trade. I hope I'm wrong and some GM really wants Melo. I don't think Melo staying is that far-fetched even though it would create a dysfunctional environment. Probably not more dysfunction than we're used to though.

its ridiculous. Melo will not be here. But sure.. "we'll see."

Are you serious?

I mean, how can you not see the possible outcome where Phil fails to trade Melo? Not unrealistic given the fact that Melo's value is at an all time low, his contract is hard to match up, he has a NTC and a trade kicker?

And he's stated just about every time that he wants to stay.

Would it be distracting and dysfunctional if he stayed? Yes. More so than our prior years of dysfunction? Probably not.

The cap is only going up about $9M - to $103M.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/projec...

I don't see a ton of teams having the kind of cap room that they can just acquire Melo without sending back major contracts.

Like Bonn, I hope I'm wrong, and Melo finds a new home for next year.

YOU dont see because you cant envision anything positive happening for the Knicks. Melo will most certainly be gone, and he has said point blank when not wanted he will move on.

People that think he's going to ride it out or play Phil tough no nothing about Melo and simply have no paid attention to his career. Melo above all else wants to be wanted. Doc Rivers said point blank the Clippers would trade for him and his exact quote was "all those trades mentioned in the papers.. we would have done those trades."

So no.. he may say he wants to stay but never says he is.

Melo will give the Knicks a list of teams.. probably a small list, like Lakers, Clippers, Celtics and Cavs. Knicks will call those teams find the best offer and pull the trigger. This should not be hard to envision.

I'd be interested in seeing your vision of what an equitable trade with those 4 teams might look like, given that is is not difficult.

Well as a starting point we know that Crawford/Rivers for Melo works financially and that Doc Rivers said point blank "we make that trade."

I like Austin Rivers. I think he's a player that has been trending upward for some time. We also know Hornecek and Phil visited Rivers and recruited him heavily. Jamal Crawford is a very expensive bench scorer. I dont know if you can take a finder for him or not but that is the starting point of your trades. After that you see what the other teams offer.

The Lakers want big talent and Magic will want some star power. Lakers are interesting because they have 3 good young prospects in Russell, Ingram and Randle. They also have some really bad contract in guys like Deng and Mosgov, so some combo there is possible as well.

I dont anticipate the kind of trade that nets multiple picks and prospects, but I dont expect a pure dump either. Knicks will get something back.

The problem with Austin Rivers is he has a player option for next year.

Under the scenario in which he continues to evolve as a player, you're taking on $29m for Jamal Crawford to purchase one year and the Bird rights to Rivers next summer. That's very limited upside unless you expect the Knicks to do something in 2017-18.

Also not seeing how taking on Deng or Mosgov for $50-55m is worth the price of admission for some talented prospects with question marks.

Would like to hear your thoughts on Celtics or Cavs.

Love is pretty much the only way the latter could happen, right?

Yeah I'm not interested in that LA deal either. I don't picture anything of value coming for Melo. Phil made this bed. He's going to have to lie in it or make a worse bed.

this is not a poker hand. This is team building. Melo represents more than his WS/48. You do understand that right?

There is no worse bed than a star player making a fortune that tunes out a FO and coaching staff. Changing that will be a start with the culture. How much talent they get in return remains to be seen.

As for the Austin Rivers opting out issue... let him. There wont half the league with huge space spacing offering him Allan Crabbe money. Most likely that ship has sailed. If I trade for Rivers and he explodes or continues his upward trend, than paying him is a good thing, not a bad.

I get it but I don't want two roster spots and $50+ mil on Rivers and Crawford. If you could buy out Melo for like $42 mil, I'd rather do that than add those guys. If not, I'm 50/50 on whether those guys are better than just waiving Melo. You're forced to play two bad players 55 min a game or deal with them complaining.

to me that is the worst case option. That is the worst deal I can envision, but its a good starting point as it was confirmed by the Clippers. I think the Knicks can do better but that depends on Melo and Phil... two guys I dont have great vibes getting behind

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:lol @ Melo staying for another year

We'll see. I think Phil is going to be forced to keep Melo or waive him or take back really bad contracts in a trade. I hope I'm wrong and some GM really wants Melo. I don't think Melo staying is that far-fetched even though it would create a dysfunctional environment. Probably not more dysfunction than we're used to though.

its ridiculous. Melo will not be here. But sure.. "we'll see."

Are you serious?

I mean, how can you not see the possible outcome where Phil fails to trade Melo? Not unrealistic given the fact that Melo's value is at an all time low, his contract is hard to match up, he has a NTC and a trade kicker?

And he's stated just about every time that he wants to stay.

Would it be distracting and dysfunctional if he stayed? Yes. More so than our prior years of dysfunction? Probably not.

The cap is only going up about $9M - to $103M.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/projec...

I don't see a ton of teams having the kind of cap room that they can just acquire Melo without sending back major contracts.

Like Bonn, I hope I'm wrong, and Melo finds a new home for next year.

YOU dont see because you cant envision anything positive happening for the Knicks. Melo will most certainly be gone, and he has said point blank when not wanted he will move on.

People that think he's going to ride it out or play Phil tough no nothing about Melo and simply have no paid attention to his career. Melo above all else wants to be wanted. Doc Rivers said point blank the Clippers would trade for him and his exact quote was "all those trades mentioned in the papers.. we would have done those trades."

So no.. he may say he wants to stay but never says he is.

Melo will give the Knicks a list of teams.. probably a small list, like Lakers, Clippers, Celtics and Cavs. Knicks will call those teams find the best offer and pull the trigger. This should not be hard to envision.

I'd be interested in seeing your vision of what an equitable trade with those 4 teams might look like, given that is is not difficult.

Well as a starting point we know that Crawford/Rivers for Melo works financially and that Doc Rivers said point blank "we make that trade."

I like Austin Rivers. I think he's a player that has been trending upward for some time. We also know Hornecek and Phil visited Rivers and recruited him heavily. Jamal Crawford is a very expensive bench scorer. I dont know if you can take a finder for him or not but that is the starting point of your trades. After that you see what the other teams offer.

The Lakers want big talent and Magic will want some star power. Lakers are interesting because they have 3 good young prospects in Russell, Ingram and Randle. They also have some really bad contract in guys like Deng and Mosgov, so some combo there is possible as well.

I dont anticipate the kind of trade that nets multiple picks and prospects, but I dont expect a pure dump either. Knicks will get something back.

The problem with Austin Rivers is he has a player option for next year.

Under the scenario in which he continues to evolve as a player, you're taking on $29m for Jamal Crawford to purchase one year and the Bird rights to Rivers next summer. That's very limited upside unless you expect the Knicks to do something in 2017-18.

Also not seeing how taking on Deng or Mosgov for $50-55m is worth the price of admission for some talented prospects with question marks.

Would like to hear your thoughts on Celtics or Cavs.

Love is pretty much the only way the latter could happen, right?

Yeah I'm not interested in that LA deal either. I don't picture anything of value coming for Melo. Phil made this bed. He's going to have to lie in it or make a worse bed.

this is not a poker hand. This is team building. Melo represents more than his WS/48. You do understand that right?

There is no worse bed than a star player making a fortune that tunes out a FO and coaching staff. Changing that will be a start with the culture. How much talent they get in return remains to be seen.

As for the Austin Rivers opting out issue... let him. There wont half the league with huge space spacing offering him Allan Crabbe money. Most likely that ship has sailed. If I trade for Rivers and he explodes or continues his upward trend, than paying him is a good thing, not a bad.

I get it but I don't want two roster spots and $50+ mil on Rivers and Crawford. If you could buy out Melo for like $42 mil, I'd rather do that than add those guys. If not, I'm 50/50 on whether those guys are better than just waiving Melo. You're forced to play two bad players 55 min a game or deal with them complaining.

to me that is the worst case option. That is the worst deal I can envision, but its a good starting point as it was confirmed by the Clippers. I think the Knicks can do better but that depends on Melo and Phil... two guys I dont have great vibes getting behind

If I can get Rivers & Crawford for Melo, I think I do that. Crawford will probably play til he's forty. And I suspect I could redirect both and clear their salary if I wanted.

Moving Melo isn't about the assets that come back, it's about changing the culture.

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:lol @ Melo staying for another year

We'll see. I think Phil is going to be forced to keep Melo or waive him or take back really bad contracts in a trade. I hope I'm wrong and some GM really wants Melo. I don't think Melo staying is that far-fetched even though it would create a dysfunctional environment. Probably not more dysfunction than we're used to though.

its ridiculous. Melo will not be here. But sure.. "we'll see."

Are you serious?

I mean, how can you not see the possible outcome where Phil fails to trade Melo? Not unrealistic given the fact that Melo's value is at an all time low, his contract is hard to match up, he has a NTC and a trade kicker?

And he's stated just about every time that he wants to stay.

Would it be distracting and dysfunctional if he stayed? Yes. More so than our prior years of dysfunction? Probably not.

The cap is only going up about $9M - to $103M.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/projec...

I don't see a ton of teams having the kind of cap room that they can just acquire Melo without sending back major contracts.

Like Bonn, I hope I'm wrong, and Melo finds a new home for next year.

YOU dont see because you cant envision anything positive happening for the Knicks. Melo will most certainly be gone, and he has said point blank when not wanted he will move on.

People that think he's going to ride it out or play Phil tough no nothing about Melo and simply have no paid attention to his career. Melo above all else wants to be wanted. Doc Rivers said point blank the Clippers would trade for him and his exact quote was "all those trades mentioned in the papers.. we would have done those trades."

So no.. he may say he wants to stay but never says he is.

Melo will give the Knicks a list of teams.. probably a small list, like Lakers, Clippers, Celtics and Cavs. Knicks will call those teams find the best offer and pull the trigger. This should not be hard to envision.

I'd be interested in seeing your vision of what an equitable trade with those 4 teams might look like, given that is is not difficult.

Well as a starting point we know that Crawford/Rivers for Melo works financially and that Doc Rivers said point blank "we make that trade."

I like Austin Rivers. I think he's a player that has been trending upward for some time. We also know Hornecek and Phil visited Rivers and recruited him heavily. Jamal Crawford is a very expensive bench scorer. I dont know if you can take a finder for him or not but that is the starting point of your trades. After that you see what the other teams offer.

The Lakers want big talent and Magic will want some star power. Lakers are interesting because they have 3 good young prospects in Russell, Ingram and Randle. They also have some really bad contract in guys like Deng and Mosgov, so some combo there is possible as well.

I dont anticipate the kind of trade that nets multiple picks and prospects, but I dont expect a pure dump either. Knicks will get something back.

The problem with Austin Rivers is he has a player option for next year.

Under the scenario in which he continues to evolve as a player, you're taking on $29m for Jamal Crawford to purchase one year and the Bird rights to Rivers next summer. That's very limited upside unless you expect the Knicks to do something in 2017-18.

Also not seeing how taking on Deng or Mosgov for $50-55m is worth the price of admission for some talented prospects with question marks.

Would like to hear your thoughts on Celtics or Cavs.

Love is pretty much the only way the latter could happen, right?

Yeah I'm not interested in that LA deal either. I don't picture anything of value coming for Melo. Phil made this bed. He's going to have to lie in it or make a worse bed.

this is not a poker hand. This is team building. Melo represents more than his WS/48. You do understand that right?

There is no worse bed than a star player making a fortune that tunes out a FO and coaching staff. Changing that will be a start with the culture. How much talent they get in return remains to be seen.

As for the Austin Rivers opting out issue... let him. There wont half the league with huge space spacing offering him Allan Crabbe money. Most likely that ship has sailed. If I trade for Rivers and he explodes or continues his upward trend, than paying him is a good thing, not a bad.

I get it but I don't want two roster spots and $50+ mil on Rivers and Crawford. If you could buy out Melo for like $42 mil, I'd rather do that than add those guys. If not, I'm 50/50 on whether those guys are better than just waiving Melo. You're forced to play two bad players 55 min a game or deal with them complaining.

to me that is the worst case option. That is the worst deal I can envision, but its a good starting point as it was confirmed by the Clippers. I think the Knicks can do better but that depends on Melo and Phil... two guys I dont have great vibes getting behind

If I can get Rivers & Crawford for Melo, I think I do that. Crawford will probably play til he's forty. And I suspect I could redirect both and clear their salary if I wanted.

Moving Melo isn't about the assets that come back, it's about changing the culture.

Well its Phil's last move. If it doesnt work and "change the culture" it will just be another wasted opportunity for the Dolan-run Knicks. I agree however that it needs to happen. I also think Rivers/Crawford are decent players that contribute.

fishmike wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:lol @ Melo staying for another year

We'll see. I think Phil is going to be forced to keep Melo or waive him or take back really bad contracts in a trade. I hope I'm wrong and some GM really wants Melo. I don't think Melo staying is that far-fetched even though it would create a dysfunctional environment. Probably not more dysfunction than we're used to though.

its ridiculous. Melo will not be here. But sure.. "we'll see."

Are you serious?

I mean, how can you not see the possible outcome where Phil fails to trade Melo? Not unrealistic given the fact that Melo's value is at an all time low, his contract is hard to match up, he has a NTC and a trade kicker?

And he's stated just about every time that he wants to stay.

Would it be distracting and dysfunctional if he stayed? Yes. More so than our prior years of dysfunction? Probably not.

The cap is only going up about $9M - to $103M.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/projec...

I don't see a ton of teams having the kind of cap room that they can just acquire Melo without sending back major contracts.

Like Bonn, I hope I'm wrong, and Melo finds a new home for next year.

YOU dont see because you cant envision anything positive happening for the Knicks. Melo will most certainly be gone, and he has said point blank when not wanted he will move on.

People that think he's going to ride it out or play Phil tough no nothing about Melo and simply have no paid attention to his career. Melo above all else wants to be wanted. Doc Rivers said point blank the Clippers would trade for him and his exact quote was "all those trades mentioned in the papers.. we would have done those trades."

So no.. he may say he wants to stay but never says he is.

Melo will give the Knicks a list of teams.. probably a small list, like Lakers, Clippers, Celtics and Cavs. Knicks will call those teams find the best offer and pull the trigger. This should not be hard to envision.

I'd be interested in seeing your vision of what an equitable trade with those 4 teams might look like, given that is is not difficult.

Well as a starting point we know that Crawford/Rivers for Melo works financially and that Doc Rivers said point blank "we make that trade."

I like Austin Rivers. I think he's a player that has been trending upward for some time. We also know Hornecek and Phil visited Rivers and recruited him heavily. Jamal Crawford is a very expensive bench scorer. I dont know if you can take a finder for him or not but that is the starting point of your trades. After that you see what the other teams offer.

The Lakers want big talent and Magic will want some star power. Lakers are interesting because they have 3 good young prospects in Russell, Ingram and Randle. They also have some really bad contract in guys like Deng and Mosgov, so some combo there is possible as well.

I dont anticipate the kind of trade that nets multiple picks and prospects, but I dont expect a pure dump either. Knicks will get something back.

The problem with Austin Rivers is he has a player option for next year.

Under the scenario in which he continues to evolve as a player, you're taking on $29m for Jamal Crawford to purchase one year and the Bird rights to Rivers next summer. That's very limited upside unless you expect the Knicks to do something in 2017-18.

Also not seeing how taking on Deng or Mosgov for $50-55m is worth the price of admission for some talented prospects with question marks.

Would like to hear your thoughts on Celtics or Cavs.

Love is pretty much the only way the latter could happen, right?

Yeah I'm not interested in that LA deal either. I don't picture anything of value coming for Melo. Phil made this bed. He's going to have to lie in it or make a worse bed.

this is not a poker hand. This is team building. Melo represents more than his WS/48. You do understand that right?

There is no worse bed than a star player making a fortune that tunes out a FO and coaching staff. Changing that will be a start with the culture. How much talent they get in return remains to be seen.

As for the Austin Rivers opting out issue... let him. There wont half the league with huge space spacing offering him Allan Crabbe money. Most likely that ship has sailed. If I trade for Rivers and he explodes or continues his upward trend, than paying him is a good thing, not a bad.

Ah ha, I think I misunderstood you.

I thought you meant there's be a attractive market for Melo. You know seem to be suggesting it is more important to get rid of him and the Knicks will have to take an undesirable return with perhaps a hint of eventual upside.

attractive? I dont think it will be barren. If you are looking at Melo from the outside in he's got upside. He will be happier for one. He played this year under marital strife, and that will 100% take its a hit on performance. He will be happy to out of the Knicks. He will play better not feeling like he's got to carry an organization. He will be better playing a different role with better players. The question is how much to opposing GMs value him? Melo is certainly still an impact player and scorer. He will also be easier to aquire than some of the other options on the market. Its rare when teams can add a veteran player like Melo. There will be a market, it will really depend on how many teams he chooses to let the Knicks negotiate with. I am assuming its a small group like Bos/LA/LA/Cle and maybe another...

I dont think its important to get rid of him, its imperative. Once that happens many things will be revealed next year. Whether they are good or bad we will see, but with Phil here there is no other option, even if Kobe says otherwise. Kobe dealt directly with Phil. Melo isnt even doing that. This situation just needs to be moved on from.

The issue is the return for Melo will be more dictated by market forces than his upside as an NBA player. Two teams on his maybe-waive-the-NTC clause aren't just maxed out, they're waaaay maxed out and their simple roster reality is a bigger factor than their potential desire to add him.

Cleveland simply doesn't have the puzzle pieces other than Love.

With the Clips it's Crawford or bust.

Boston is the easiest fit, but of all the teams I question each parties mutual interest. And now Boston is having a very unfriendly media day in terms of attracting star African American players.

Lakers theoretically could squeeze him in with Clarkson and maybe one of the three pieces you mention thrown in, but does Melo want to move across country for a likely lateral basketball move (and if they lose their pick it gets worse) playing in the shadow of his best friend?

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:lol @ Melo staying for another year

We'll see. I think Phil is going to be forced to keep Melo or waive him or take back really bad contracts in a trade. I hope I'm wrong and some GM really wants Melo. I don't think Melo staying is that far-fetched even though it would create a dysfunctional environment. Probably not more dysfunction than we're used to though.

its ridiculous. Melo will not be here. But sure.. "we'll see."

Are you serious?

I mean, how can you not see the possible outcome where Phil fails to trade Melo? Not unrealistic given the fact that Melo's value is at an all time low, his contract is hard to match up, he has a NTC and a trade kicker?

And he's stated just about every time that he wants to stay.

Would it be distracting and dysfunctional if he stayed? Yes. More so than our prior years of dysfunction? Probably not.

The cap is only going up about $9M - to $103M.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/projec...

I don't see a ton of teams having the kind of cap room that they can just acquire Melo without sending back major contracts.

Like Bonn, I hope I'm wrong, and Melo finds a new home for next year.

YOU dont see because you cant envision anything positive happening for the Knicks. Melo will most certainly be gone, and he has said point blank when not wanted he will move on.

People that think he's going to ride it out or play Phil tough no nothing about Melo and simply have no paid attention to his career. Melo above all else wants to be wanted. Doc Rivers said point blank the Clippers would trade for him and his exact quote was "all those trades mentioned in the papers.. we would have done those trades."

So no.. he may say he wants to stay but never says he is.

Melo will give the Knicks a list of teams.. probably a small list, like Lakers, Clippers, Celtics and Cavs. Knicks will call those teams find the best offer and pull the trigger. This should not be hard to envision.

I'd be interested in seeing your vision of what an equitable trade with those 4 teams might look like, given that is is not difficult.

Well as a starting point we know that Crawford/Rivers for Melo works financially and that Doc Rivers said point blank "we make that trade."

I like Austin Rivers. I think he's a player that has been trending upward for some time. We also know Hornecek and Phil visited Rivers and recruited him heavily. Jamal Crawford is a very expensive bench scorer. I dont know if you can take a finder for him or not but that is the starting point of your trades. After that you see what the other teams offer.

The Lakers want big talent and Magic will want some star power. Lakers are interesting because they have 3 good young prospects in Russell, Ingram and Randle. They also have some really bad contract in guys like Deng and Mosgov, so some combo there is possible as well.

I dont anticipate the kind of trade that nets multiple picks and prospects, but I dont expect a pure dump either. Knicks will get something back.

The problem with Austin Rivers is he has a player option for next year.

Under the scenario in which he continues to evolve as a player, you're taking on $29m for Jamal Crawford to purchase one year and the Bird rights to Rivers next summer. That's very limited upside unless you expect the Knicks to do something in 2017-18.

Also not seeing how taking on Deng or Mosgov for $50-55m is worth the price of admission for some talented prospects with question marks.

Would like to hear your thoughts on Celtics or Cavs.

Love is pretty much the only way the latter could happen, right?

Yeah I'm not interested in that LA deal either. I don't picture anything of value coming for Melo. Phil made this bed. He's going to have to lie in it or make a worse bed.

this is not a poker hand. This is team building. Melo represents more than his WS/48. You do understand that right?

There is no worse bed than a star player making a fortune that tunes out a FO and coaching staff. Changing that will be a start with the culture. How much talent they get in return remains to be seen.

As for the Austin Rivers opting out issue... let him. There wont half the league with huge space spacing offering him Allan Crabbe money. Most likely that ship has sailed. If I trade for Rivers and he explodes or continues his upward trend, than paying him is a good thing, not a bad.

I get it but I don't want two roster spots and $50+ mil on Rivers and Crawford. If you could buy out Melo for like $42 mil, I'd rather do that than add those guys. If not, I'm 50/50 on whether those guys are better than just waiving Melo. You're forced to play two bad players 55 min a game or deal with them complaining.

to me that is the worst case option. That is the worst deal I can envision, but its a good starting point as it was confirmed by the Clippers. I think the Knicks can do better but that depends on Melo and Phil... two guys I dont have great vibes getting behind

If I can get Rivers & Crawford for Melo, I think I do that. Crawford will probably play til he's forty. And I suspect I could redirect both and clear their salary if I wanted.

Moving Melo isn't about the assets that come back, it's about changing the culture.

Well its Phil's last move. If it doesnt work and "change the culture" it will just be another wasted opportunity for the Dolan-run Knicks. I agree however that it needs to happen. I also think Rivers/Crawford are decent players that contribute.

They can be, to a good team.

Crawford is valueless to a lottery team.

Tell me you're a lock to make a postseason run for a couple of years and need instant scoring off your bench, Crawford rings the bell.

Tell me you're rebuilding, Crawford immediately makes zero sense.

And cost prohibitive to spin off to somewhere he would have value.

Knickoftime wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:lol @ Melo staying for another year

We'll see. I think Phil is going to be forced to keep Melo or waive him or take back really bad contracts in a trade. I hope I'm wrong and some GM really wants Melo. I don't think Melo staying is that far-fetched even though it would create a dysfunctional environment. Probably not more dysfunction than we're used to though.

its ridiculous. Melo will not be here. But sure.. "we'll see."

Are you serious?

I mean, how can you not see the possible outcome where Phil fails to trade Melo? Not unrealistic given the fact that Melo's value is at an all time low, his contract is hard to match up, he has a NTC and a trade kicker?

And he's stated just about every time that he wants to stay.

Would it be distracting and dysfunctional if he stayed? Yes. More so than our prior years of dysfunction? Probably not.

The cap is only going up about $9M - to $103M.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/projec...

I don't see a ton of teams having the kind of cap room that they can just acquire Melo without sending back major contracts.

Like Bonn, I hope I'm wrong, and Melo finds a new home for next year.

YOU dont see because you cant envision anything positive happening for the Knicks. Melo will most certainly be gone, and he has said point blank when not wanted he will move on.

People that think he's going to ride it out or play Phil tough no nothing about Melo and simply have no paid attention to his career. Melo above all else wants to be wanted. Doc Rivers said point blank the Clippers would trade for him and his exact quote was "all those trades mentioned in the papers.. we would have done those trades."

So no.. he may say he wants to stay but never says he is.

Melo will give the Knicks a list of teams.. probably a small list, like Lakers, Clippers, Celtics and Cavs. Knicks will call those teams find the best offer and pull the trigger. This should not be hard to envision.

I'd be interested in seeing your vision of what an equitable trade with those 4 teams might look like, given that is is not difficult.

Well as a starting point we know that Crawford/Rivers for Melo works financially and that Doc Rivers said point blank "we make that trade."

I like Austin Rivers. I think he's a player that has been trending upward for some time. We also know Hornecek and Phil visited Rivers and recruited him heavily. Jamal Crawford is a very expensive bench scorer. I dont know if you can take a finder for him or not but that is the starting point of your trades. After that you see what the other teams offer.

The Lakers want big talent and Magic will want some star power. Lakers are interesting because they have 3 good young prospects in Russell, Ingram and Randle. They also have some really bad contract in guys like Deng and Mosgov, so some combo there is possible as well.

I dont anticipate the kind of trade that nets multiple picks and prospects, but I dont expect a pure dump either. Knicks will get something back.

The problem with Austin Rivers is he has a player option for next year.

Under the scenario in which he continues to evolve as a player, you're taking on $29m for Jamal Crawford to purchase one year and the Bird rights to Rivers next summer. That's very limited upside unless you expect the Knicks to do something in 2017-18.

Also not seeing how taking on Deng or Mosgov for $50-55m is worth the price of admission for some talented prospects with question marks.

Would like to hear your thoughts on Celtics or Cavs.

Love is pretty much the only way the latter could happen, right?

Yeah I'm not interested in that LA deal either. I don't picture anything of value coming for Melo. Phil made this bed. He's going to have to lie in it or make a worse bed.

this is not a poker hand. This is team building. Melo represents more than his WS/48. You do understand that right?

There is no worse bed than a star player making a fortune that tunes out a FO and coaching staff. Changing that will be a start with the culture. How much talent they get in return remains to be seen.

As for the Austin Rivers opting out issue... let him. There wont half the league with huge space spacing offering him Allan Crabbe money. Most likely that ship has sailed. If I trade for Rivers and he explodes or continues his upward trend, than paying him is a good thing, not a bad.

Ah ha, I think I misunderstood you.

I thought you meant there's be a attractive market for Melo. You know seem to be suggesting it is more important to get rid of him and the Knicks will have to take an undesirable return with perhaps a hint of eventual upside.

attractive? I dont think it will be barren. If you are looking at Melo from the outside in he's got upside. He will be happier for one. He played this year under marital strife, and that will 100% take its a hit on performance. He will be happy to out of the Knicks. He will play better not feeling like he's got to carry an organization. He will be better playing a different role with better players. The question is how much to opposing GMs value him? Melo is certainly still an impact player and scorer. He will also be easier to aquire than some of the other options on the market. Its rare when teams can add a veteran player like Melo. There will be a market, it will really depend on how many teams he chooses to let the Knicks negotiate with. I am assuming its a small group like Bos/LA/LA/Cle and maybe another...

I dont think its important to get rid of him, its imperative. Once that happens many things will be revealed next year. Whether they are good or bad we will see, but with Phil here there is no other option, even if Kobe says otherwise. Kobe dealt directly with Phil. Melo isnt even doing that. This situation just needs to be moved on from.

The issue is the return for Melo will be more dictated by market forces than his upside as an NBA player. Two teams on his maybe-waive-the-NTC clause aren't just maxed out, they're waaaay maxed out and their simple roster reality is a bigger factor than their potential desire to add him.

Cleveland simply doesn't have the puzzle pieces other than Love.

With the Clips it's Crawford or bust.

Boston is the easiest fit, but of all the teams I question each parties mutual interest. And now Boston is having a very unfriendly media day in terms of attracting star African American players.

Lakers theoretically could squeeze him in with Clarkson and maybe one of the three pieces you mention thrown in, but does Melo want to move across country for a likely lateral basketball move (and if they lose their pick it gets worse) playing in the shadow of his best friend?

that is one way to look at it. Another way is what are the opportunities teams like those have opportunities to add a player like Melo? If it was 1 team than yea.. its going to be really limited. However if you have 3-4 teams "interested" things change quickly and teams scramble to make things happen.

We will see what happens. I am not saying it will be good, but I am saying it doesnt HAVE to be bad, and there are plenty of reasons why. End of the day Denver got the greatest deal ever and what did it yield them? Exactly the same it did us. One great year and not much else.