Knicks · Watching Houston tonight (page 1)

BRIGGS @ 5/2/2017 1:44 AM
If teams go this way--and they are--where teams are getting up and down the floor spread out and shooting 28 footers--its impossible to guard. No chance for the defense to set up--no chance with a line up that featured two slow half-court type of 7 footers have the ability to guard that.

You better have some offensive firepower and speed on defense to even compete. I dont think you can impose will on speed like that.
Im not sure Im even wrong about the realization that we do not have an athletic front court player--Im not sure our guys would be effective against Houston in the middle defensively. Just to fast and athletic

nixluva @ 5/2/2017 2:02 AM
BRIGGS wrote:If teams go this way--and they are--where teams are getting up and down the floor spread out and shooting 28 footers--its impossible to guard. No chance for the defense to set up--no chance with a line up that featured two slow half-court type of 7 footers have the ability to guard that.

You better have some offensive firepower and speed on defense to even compete. I dont think you can impose will on speed like that.

The Spurs are a bad matchup since they have older half court bigs and some older guards too! Houston is using what I call Hyper Spacing where they're starting their offense way behind the 3 PT line forcing a big to come out and just opening up all kinds of driving space and kick outs. The Spurs aren't really built to deal with that and certainly not SSOL style running off makes.

The Spurs have to try and slow things down as much as possible. That's the only chance they have.

dacash @ 5/2/2017 7:27 AM
even the triangle looks good when winning
EnySpree @ 5/2/2017 9:17 AM
BRIGGS wrote:If teams go this way--and they are--where teams are getting up and down the floor spread out and shooting 28 footers--its impossible to guard. No chance for the defense to set up--no chance with a line up that featured two slow half-court type of 7 footers have the ability to guard that.

You better have some offensive firepower and speed on defense to even compete. I dont think you can impose will on speed like that.
Im not sure Im even wrong about the realization that we do not have an athletic front court player--Im not sure our guys would be effective against Houston in the middle defensively. Just to fast and athletic

That's what Dantoni preached for years. Now it's all the rage

GoNyGoNyGo @ 5/2/2017 9:44 AM
ITs great to see MDA have success again. IT shows what he wanted for NY but with a stubborn Melo was not able to get going. Melo could NEVER do what Harden does. Not even close.

That is why the Linsanity was so great. It was a view into what could have been.

Vmart @ 5/2/2017 9:50 AM
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:ITs great to see MDA have success again. IT shows what he wanted for NY but with a stubborn Melo was not able to get going. Melo could NEVER do what Harden does. Not even close.

That is why the Linsanity was so great. It was a view into what could have been.

The Knicks always cater to the players and go through coach. It's high time that players be held accountable. There is no place for players that don't buy in.

martin @ 5/2/2017 10:14 AM
Vmart wrote:
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:ITs great to see MDA have success again. IT shows what he wanted for NY but with a stubborn Melo was not able to get going. Melo could NEVER do what Harden does. Not even close.

That is why the Linsanity was so great. It was a view into what could have been.

The Knicks always cater to the players and go through coach. It's high time that players be held accountable. There is no place for players that don't buy in.

100000000%

Nalod @ 5/2/2017 11:04 AM
PHil is building the team to play a system.
Dolan insisting on Melo as a star derailed the plan here.
In LA, MDA had a Dwight still not right after back surgery, Nash fell apart as was KOBE.
With Rockets Harden was the centerpiece and the other pieces were added. They have nice team for what they want to do.
WE throw money at these guys like him and Larry and tell them we'll rebuild to their specifications but we don't follow thru.

IM glad MDA is getting some sort of redemption.

Uptown @ 5/2/2017 11:12 AM
Nalod wrote:PHil is building the team to play a system.
Dolan insisting on Melo as a star derailed the plan here.
In LA, MDA had a Dwight still not right after back surgery, Nash fell apart as was KOBE.
With Rockets Harden was the centerpiece and the other pieces were added. They have nice team for what they want to do.
WE throw money at these guys like him and Larry and tell them we'll rebuild to their specifications but we don't follow thru.

IM glad MDA is getting some sort of redemption.

BullS***!!! Phil said he had complete carte blanche plenty of times. phil derailed himself by giving Melo the NTC!

Vmart @ 5/2/2017 11:14 AM
Uptown wrote:
Nalod wrote:PHil is building the team to play a system.
Dolan insisting on Melo as a star derailed the plan here.
In LA, MDA had a Dwight still not right after back surgery, Nash fell apart as was KOBE.
With Rockets Harden was the centerpiece and the other pieces were added. They have nice team for what they want to do.
WE throw money at these guys like him and Larry and tell them we'll rebuild to their specifications but we don't follow thru.

IM glad MDA is getting some sort of redemption.

BullS***!!! Phil said he had complete carte blanche plenty of times. phil derailed himself by giving Melo the NTC!

I agree with this. It was Phils blunder, phil's over confidence got the best of him.

Nalod @ 5/2/2017 11:44 AM
I was talking about the initial trade in 2010.

As for the NTC, well that's a different perspective. I read this:
http://dailyknicks.com/2017/05/02/new-yo...

Don't worry, its not going to change anybodys mind about anything. It did give me pause to what Melo being here has cost and if letting him walk for nothing THREE YEARS AGO.
We have talked about this before but this was at the start of Phils tenure as well.
Could we have seen a scenario where Dolan said "You have full control but I want you to resign Melo, can you work within those parameters?" Not saying it was a concession, but perhaps a belief. Also, Melo at the time compliant to work in the triangle and be mentored by the guy that turned around Jordans career at age 27, or the only guy to guide Kobe to any of his 5 rings? Perhaps. So lets not be all high and might that THREE YEARS AGO you or anyone else knew what you know now. You didn't. You might have suspected the obvious at the time, but nobody knew.

If we get anyting in return for melo, its more than having him walk three years ago. We would have been a worse team and fact is we only had one pick of the three so there was no reward to tanking.
I agree, Phil thought he could have done better with melo. That is not incompetent, that's just life in pro sports. Melo is an elite scoring SF who is an attraction at the gate and as a reminder, Knicks are an entertainment company.

So melo said he trusts phil, but not enough to stop holding the ball.

martin @ 5/2/2017 11:47 AM
http://www.houstonchronicle.com/sports/r...

Latest twist in Mike D'Antoni's offense: taking pick out of pick-and-roll

LOS ANGELES - As DeMarcus Cousins picked up Ryan Anderson, pitting the burly center on the Rockets' marksman, Anderson looked to the backcourt to where James Harden was bringing the ball up and had noticed the same thing.

Harden did not call out a play or signal for any sort of action. But he and Anderson caught each other's eye and knew just what to do.

Harden took the ball to the middle of the floor and Anderson quickly moved in to set a screen. But Anderson never actually set it. Cousins moved to his left. Anderson rapidly backed away, taking Harden's quick pass at the 3-point line and firing away before Cousins could rush back.

Anderson was not shying away from contact with Cousins' 6-11 mountain of muscle. This was a part of Mike D'Antoni's offense rarely mentioned, but as integral as fast-breaking or shooting 3s.

The Rockets run more pick-and-rolls and pick-and-pops than any NBA team. But they usually don't actually set a pick.

From Clint Capela rolling to the rim to Anderson back-pedaling to the 3-point line, if the Rockets see a big man move himself out of position, rather than standing still to set a screen, they move rapidly to take advantage, a part of D'Antoni's offense that teams are adopting the way they did his pace-and-space style a decade ago.

"He is the first person I've ever seen teach the basic elements of pick-and-roll differently," said Hornets coach Steve Clifford, an assistant under D'Antoni in Los Angeles who now uses the style with his big men in Charlotte. "Offense, it always was you want a solid screen that sets up the guy with the ball's ability to create separation. That sets up the roll. He does it, as soon as you hear the defensive player (call out of the defense) and that guy moves, you go then.

"With them, their best plays, they don't screen. He's the first person in this league to teach it like that. It makes the pick-and-roll quicker and for a lot of guys, it's a much better way to play."

D'Antoni's Suns used the tactic extensively with Steve Nash and Amar's Stoudemire. But it is so important to the Rockets offense, it gets Anderson open against defenses that know he is there to shoot 3s and has freed Capela going to the rim so reliably that he is making 65.1 percent of his shots, the second-best shooting percentage in the NBA.

The Rockets not only take more 3s than any team ever has, Harden passing to Capela has led to more dunks than any combination in the NBA. Most begin with no pick pick-and-rolls.

"I don't need to stay to set the screen," Capela said. "I only stay when the defender is actually in front of James. But when he steps that way, I know all I have to do is dive. That creates a situation it's two-on-one with James handling the ball and I get lobs.

"Past coaches, they wanted me to set the screen. I always knew that sometimes you don't need to set it because the defender is thinking about you setting it. You're already open. That sometimes opens our shooters and sometimes I'm open for the lob pass."

With Anderson, if his man is expected to "hedge" or "hard show," defenses in which a big man steps out to help on Harden off the dribble, Anderson can read that and back away before his man can get out to him at the 3-point line.

"It depends how the defense is guarding," Anderson said. "I can slip the screen and get right out of there. It messes up the coverage. I go to screen, feel where my defender is guarding me and get out of that screen as fast as possible. James does a really good job reading what I'm going to do.

"There are occasions it's important to hit the man. If a team likes to show (having a big man step out on Harden) really hard, I can go in there and hit James' man and he's got a wide open path to the lane if they're worried about getting back to me."

D'Antoni does not mind a good, traditional, hard screen. But the idea is to get open shots for his big men at the rim, his shooters at the 3-point line or Harden on the move, not to have bodies banging into one another. If the Rockets are in position to get the shots they want, he does not expect them to stand still because the X on his drawing board does.

"The reason you set a pick is to get the point guard or whoever has the ball an advantage," D'Antoni said. "Defenses are being taught now that when you see the pick and it's being called out, you jump to the position. That gives the offense an advantage. The big helps. Just go. You get a two-step head start. You don't get tangled up with people. You just go."

With that, the Rockets get the shots they want most, 3-pointers and shots in the lane.

"Our offense is movement, making the defense work," Anderson said. "Everybody talks about a fast pace. But the pace isn't just about … fast-break layups. It means making decisions on the fly, reading how the play goes. Sometimes I'm reading the play and James and I will make eye contact.

"That's essentially our offense."

fwk00 @ 5/2/2017 12:53 PM
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:ITs great to see MDA have success again. IT shows what he wanted for NY but with a stubborn Melo was not able to get going. Melo could NEVER do what Harden does. Not even close.

That is why the Linsanity was so great. It was a view into what could have been.

And this is why running Phil out of town looks a lot like running MDA out of town just as he was ready to breakout winning. Melo has poisoned multiple Knicks efforts.

Phil needs to finish what he's started. Enough of the nonsense of starting over every time a sportswriter or fan gets their nose out of joint.

nixluva @ 5/2/2017 1:18 PM
fwk00 wrote:
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:ITs great to see MDA have success again. IT shows what he wanted for NY but with a stubborn Melo was not able to get going. Melo could NEVER do what Harden does. Not even close.

That is why the Linsanity was so great. It was a view into what could have been.

And this is why running Phil out of town looks a lot like running MDA out of town just as he was ready to breakout winning. Melo has poisoned multiple Knicks efforts.

Phil needs to finish what he's started. Enough of the nonsense of starting over every time a sportswriter or fan gets their nose out of joint.

HALLELUJAH!!! I think there is simply too much paying attention to the Media Meme about the Triangle and Phil meddling when in fact he's simply trying to establish Ball and Player Movement as a culture. Keep it moving. Be unselfish. Give Max Effort.

We saw the Kids actually doing these things. Also Jeff is VERY MUCH a proponent of the very things you see MDA or Kerr doing. Jeff has these kids running Early Offense with Spread PnR looks and out of timeouts they set up Triangle. It's just that simple. He will only call for Triangle when he feels he needs it. If you simply watch the way the kids played to end the year you can clearly see all of these things. Jeff is taking the team in this direction but with the ability to run effective Half court as well.

EnySpree @ 5/2/2017 2:10 PM
fwk00 wrote:
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:ITs great to see MDA have success again. IT shows what he wanted for NY but with a stubborn Melo was not able to get going. Melo could NEVER do what Harden does. Not even close.

That is why the Linsanity was so great. It was a view into what could have been.

And this is why running Phil out of town looks a lot like running MDA out of town just as he was ready to breakout winning. Melo has poisoned multiple Knicks efforts.

Phil needs to finish what he's started. Enough of the nonsense of starting over every time a sportswriter or fan gets their nose out of joint.

newyorknewyork @ 5/2/2017 2:30 PM
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:ITs great to see MDA have success again. IT shows what he wanted for NY but with a stubborn Melo was not able to get going. Melo could NEVER do what Harden does. Not even close.

That is why the Linsanity was so great. It was a view into what could have been.

But it also shows how bad of a mix Walsh and MDA was. At no point did Walsh give MDA the needed playmaking guard that haz been essensial to his success.

Should have been the first thing he did

nixluva @ 5/2/2017 2:42 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:ITs great to see MDA have success again. IT shows what he wanted for NY but with a stubborn Melo was not able to get going. Melo could NEVER do what Harden does. Not even close.

That is why the Linsanity was so great. It was a view into what could have been.

But it also shows how bad of a mix Walsh and MDA was. At no point did Walsh give MDA the needed playmaking guard that haz been essensial to his success.

Should have been the first thing he did

Yeah we all said it at the time but you can't stick MDA with lousy PG's.

I took a lot of crap from some people for supporting MDA but this is what I always believed could happen if a GM got fully behind him.

knicks1248 @ 5/2/2017 2:52 PM
Vmart wrote:
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:ITs great to see MDA have success again. IT shows what he wanted for NY but with a stubborn Melo was not able to get going. Melo could NEVER do what Harden does. Not even close.

That is why the Linsanity was so great. It was a view into what could have been.

The Knicks always cater to the players and go through coach. It's high time that players be held accountable. There is no place for players that don't buy in.

I agree that everyone needs to be on the same page, but every single season there are 4 to 5 players on the roster that isn't buying in, and everyone else just seems confused. This isn't about 1 player, this is a different player that you just signed that's not buying in. WHAT does that say about the judgment of the front office.

Vmart @ 5/2/2017 3:28 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
Vmart wrote:
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:ITs great to see MDA have success again. IT shows what he wanted for NY but with a stubborn Melo was not able to get going. Melo could NEVER do what Harden does. Not even close.

That is why the Linsanity was so great. It was a view into what could have been.

The Knicks always cater to the players and go through coach. It's high time that players be held accountable. There is no place for players that don't buy in.

I agree that everyone needs to be on the same page, but every single season there are 4 to 5 players on the roster that isn't buying in, and everyone else just seems confused. This isn't about 1 player, this is a different player that you just signed that's not buying in. WHAT does that say about the judgment of the front office.

You can't have your top player not buying in it sets a bad precedence. He is always the malcontent he needed to change that but he couldn't or can't. The others are pretty much buying in because they do what is asked of them. That is part of the contract.

EnySpree @ 5/2/2017 4:14 PM
Vmart wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Vmart wrote:
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:ITs great to see MDA have success again. IT shows what he wanted for NY but with a stubborn Melo was not able to get going. Melo could NEVER do what Harden does. Not even close.

That is why the Linsanity was so great. It was a view into what could have been.

The Knicks always cater to the players and go through coach. It's high time that players be held accountable. There is no place for players that don't buy in.

I agree that everyone needs to be on the same page, but every single season there are 4 to 5 players on the roster that isn't buying in, and everyone else just seems confused. This isn't about 1 player, this is a different player that you just signed that's not buying in. WHAT does that say about the judgment of the front office.

You can't have your top player not buying in it sets a bad precedence. He is always the malcontent he needed to change that but he couldn't or can't. The others are pretty much buying in because they do what is asked of them. That is part of the contract.

That's away been Melos problem... he wants the money, fans, the branding, the of the court business... plus he wants management to build a team separate from him that allows Melo to do whatever he wants to do.... that's why this marriage needs to end. The Knicks are not in a position where they are going to flip the roster to appease Melo. Phil had tried to do both at the same time... right now all arguments aside, no matter who is in charge. We need to draft well. That's it. We get professiinal players that love this game, want to compete and win. We habe to self preserve and build, not sell our soul to help one player build up their brand.

fwk00 @ 5/2/2017 4:29 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
Vmart wrote:
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:ITs great to see MDA have success again. IT shows what he wanted for NY but with a stubborn Melo was not able to get going. Melo could NEVER do what Harden does. Not even close.

That is why the Linsanity was so great. It was a view into what could have been.

The Knicks always cater to the players and go through coach. It's high time that players be held accountable. There is no place for players that don't buy in.

I agree that everyone needs to be on the same page, but every single season there are 4 to 5 players on the roster that isn't buying in, and everyone else just seems confused. This isn't about 1 player, this is a different player that you just signed that's not buying in. WHAT does that say about the judgment of the front office.

It says that players and agents lie to get what they want. It says that GMs aren't mind readers. What are they supposed to do? Not take any risk?

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