Nice find. It was a thorough and well written article. I didn't agree with all of his non stat driven points but the numbers are the numbers. The Knicks could end up keeping Melo! I believe Phil has no intention of just giving Melo away.
I don't believe that KP NEEDS Melo in order to be successful. I think getting a talented PG would do just as much if not more for KP! Replacing Melo for a Forward that can play more off the ball and defends well would be better for the team IMO! Despite the numbers presented by the writer Melo isn't really a good fit for how this team is looking to play.
Stats are one thing.... the eye test and the locker room, practice and in game habits count too. Melo has to buy in. Melo seems content on sabotaging things just to get his way. We're just not going to starphuch for Melo. That's it. If Melo would have bought in everyone would be on board. Nothing is above the team. We have to do something about our team not just Melo. If he's not about that then he has to go.
EnySpree wrote:Stats are one thing.... the eye test and the locker room, practice and in game habits count too. Melo has to buy in. Melo seems content on sabotaging things just to get his way. We're just not going to starphuch for Melo. That's it. If Melo would have bought in everyone would be on board. Nothing is above the team. We have to do something about our team not just Melo. If he's not about that then he has to go.
Agree with you that it should be a rebuild and if so, Melo is not the best fit for the team and deserves to go elsewhere. But how do you know locker room, practice level? Think he tried to fit a year ago before injury. But Imo, the worst thing a front office can do is try to change a players natural game. Melo is a HOF post up high usage player. When he played at a high level, he needed to have players around him that can play off the ball, shoot threes at high percentage and play good help defense. Thats just what he was. And dont think you should sign players so that they adapt to the game you think they should play. Can you see Curry, Kobe, Thompson coming here and holding the ball to get into Triangle? But again, that time has passed and I think he should move on.
EnySpree wrote:Stats are one thing.... the eye test and the locker room, practice and in game habits count too. Melo has to buy in. Melo seems content on sabotaging things just to get his way. We're just not going to starphuch for Melo. That's it. If Melo would have bought in everyone would be on board. Nothing is above the team. We have to do something about our team not just Melo. If he's not about that then he has to go.
It is worth your time reading the article in my opinion. The author talked a lot about the chemistry (using stats) between KP and Melo, the appearance of Rosé leading to the disappearance of Dad Melo, the potential for Dad to comeback, and how much the team missed Rolo.
CrushAlot wrote:EnySpree wrote:Stats are one thing.... the eye test and the locker room, practice and in game habits count too. Melo has to buy in. Melo seems content on sabotaging things just to get his way. We're just not going to starphuch for Melo. That's it. If Melo would have bought in everyone would be on board. Nothing is above the team. We have to do something about our team not just Melo. If he's not about that then he has to go.
It is worth your time reading the article in my opinion. The author talked a lot about the chemistry (using stats) between KP and Melo, the appearance of Rosé leading to the disappearance of Dad Melo, the potential for Dad to comeback, and how much the team missed Rolo.
I read it... I agree alot of it is cool but stats can't show a person's heart.... and duh we miss Rolo.... we have to move forward
I think it will be fine for Knicks to keep Melo...
Will it be fine for Melo?
He basically set a trap for himself with no way out.
Of course he theoretically can adjust his game, shot and score less, and forget about winning for another 2 years.
But practically what is the point for him to do so? Is he masochist or something?
Anthony has the option to forgo the $27.9 million he’s owed in 2018-19 and become a free agent after next season. Barring any sudden changes, he’ll enter the open market at the age of 34, looking to secure one last long-term payday. The Knicks need to treat him like an expiring contract. Taking back deals—like those of Jamal Crawford and Rivers—that extend past 2017-18 doesn’t make sense.
This is the most important quote. If he doesn't opt out and you can't trade him for something of real value now and he is terrible again next year, then you buy him out or waive him. But that's a lot of ifs.
HofstraBBall wrote:EnySpree wrote:Stats are one thing.... the eye test and the locker room, practice and in game habits count too. Melo has to buy in. Melo seems content on sabotaging things just to get his way. We're just not going to starphuch for Melo. That's it. If Melo would have bought in everyone would be on board. Nothing is above the team. We have to do something about our team not just Melo. If he's not about that then he has to go.
Agree with you that it should be a rebuild and if so, Melo is not the best fit for the team and deserves to go elsewhere. But how do you know locker room, practice level? Think he tried to fit a year ago before injury. But Imo, the worst thing a front office can do is try to change a players natural game. Melo is a HOF post up high usage player. When he played at a high level, he needed to have players around him that can play off the ball, shoot threes at high percentage and play good help defense. Thats just what he was. And dont think you should sign players so that they adapt to the game you think they should play. Can you see Curry, Kobe, Thompson coming here and holding the ball to get into Triangle? But again, that time has passed and I think he should move on.
Can you please take a brief moment and clarify that statement? IM not sure I understand it. Thank you!
Very little about Jackson’s tenure in New York proves, or suggests, or comes within miles of proving or suggesting, he’s the person to extract the most possible value from an Anthony trade. The 10-time All-Star’s market value is low enough. He’s going on 33, only checks in on defense against select players and squandered all the goodwill he built as a facilitator. And Jackson, somehow, has succeeded in driving his value lower still.
Best quote from the article!
Great find, btw.
I hadn't actually factored in Melo's opt out. I figured if he stayed, he'd look to leave after this next season.
franco12 wrote:Very little about Jackson’s tenure in New York proves, or suggests, or comes within miles of proving or suggesting, he’s the person to extract the most possible value from an Anthony trade. The 10-time All-Star’s market value is low enough. He’s going on 33, only checks in on defense against select players and squandered all the goodwill he built as a facilitator. And Jackson, somehow, has succeeded in driving his value lower still.
Best quote from the article!
Great find, btw.
I hadn't actually factored in Melo's opt out. I figured if he stayed, he'd look to leave after this next season.
His 2018 salary is $28 mil, though. I'm not sure he will opt out. If he does, it means he's looking for a huge salary. Something like 4 years, $40 mil (which I'd never give him at that point in his career) wouldn't be enough to justify opting out. So it probably means either Phil gives him another horrible contract or let's him walk.
franco12 wrote:Very little about Jackson’s tenure in New York proves, or suggests, or comes within miles of proving or suggesting, he’s the person to extract the most possible value from an Anthony trade. The 10-time All-Star’s market value is low enough. He’s going on 33, only checks in on defense against select players and squandered all the goodwill he built as a facilitator. And Jackson, somehow, has succeeded in driving his value lower still.
Best quote from the article!
Great find, btw.
I hadn't actually factored in Melo's opt out. I figured if he stayed, he'd look to leave after this next season.
definetly good points in article....its no secret that phil screwed up on a few trades but hopefully hes learned from the mistakes....i think we've seen the resistance from the trading deadline where he didnt jsut give up melo and rose
arkrud wrote:I think it will be fine for Knicks to keep Melo...
Will it be fine for Melo?
He basically set a trap for himself with no way out.
Of course he theoretically can adjust his game, shot and score less, and forget about winning for another 2 years.
But practically what is the point for him to do so? Is he masochist or something?
Well, I think Phil's comments were a wake-up call for Melo - "get with the program or GTFO". And its legitimate. I don't think Phil objects to keeping Melo as long as he gets with the program.
In many ways I think Melo is a masochist of sorts. I think basketball is a secondary occupation with celebrity and poseur businessman being dominant. Like many really smart people to whom everything comes easy, basketball comes easy to Melo - why work at it or change. He got this far floating downstream and could easily hang around, tease the fanbase once in a while, wreck havoc on management, and still become HOF leaving a trail of team carnage behind. Why should he care?
And if Melo doesn't care why should Dolan, Phil, or any mature teammate care.Rose got Melo's message loud and clear. Play for yourself - my [Melo's] commitment to the team is a matador's commitment to standing behind the ruse.
franco12 wrote:Very little about Jackson’s tenure in New York proves, or suggests, or comes within miles of proving or suggesting, he’s the person to extract the most possible value from an Anthony trade. The 10-time All-Star’s market value is low enough. He’s going on 33, only checks in on defense against select players and squandered all the goodwill he built as a facilitator. And Jackson, somehow, has succeeded in driving his value lower still.
Best quote from the article!
Great find, btw.
I hadn't actually factored in Melo's opt out. I figured if he stayed, he'd look to leave after this next season.
These quotes are empty. First they imply ONLY Phil knows about Melo's weaknesses and by talking about them Phil has given away a company confidential finding.
Second, it implies every coach, assistant coach, and towel waver doesn't observe what happens on the court where just about every D Leaguer and better player torches Melo for career high numbers.
So a sportswriter on the lets-tear-down-Phil bandwagon claims Phil has lowered Melo's trade value - woo hoo! Melo's value is Melo's value and nobody who isn't mentally challenged to begin with mistakes his value for anything else.
IN THE RIGHT situation, Melo can add enough offense to make a difference for a contender. He's not an alpha dog or even a beta-dog. He's not a lunch-pail guy either - he shows up and floats when it suits him. But with enough encouragement from teammates who are willing to embarrass him or expose him, he can be a player. Melo wants to be like Bron [or anyone whose reputation for playing basketball is greater than Melo's]. He just doesn't want to earn it.
EnySpree wrote:Stats are one thing.... the eye test and the locker room, practice and in game habits count too. Melo has to buy in. Melo seems content on sabotaging things just to get his way. We're just not going to starphuch for Melo. That's it. If Melo would have bought in everyone would be on board. Nothing is above the team. We have to do something about our team not just Melo. If he's not about that then he has to go.
I agree.
I just dont think Melo will ever buy in. He hasn't yet
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:EnySpree wrote:Stats are one thing.... the eye test and the locker room, practice and in game habits count too. Melo has to buy in. Melo seems content on sabotaging things just to get his way. We're just not going to starphuch for Melo. That's it. If Melo would have bought in everyone would be on board. Nothing is above the team. We have to do something about our team not just Melo. If he's not about that then he has to go.
I agree.I just dont think Melo will ever buy in. He hasn't yet
Why would he? Its just not in the cards. If they want to "build" this how they envision they need to move him.
I said 5 yrs ago, that melo would never win a ring until he is a role player similar to where ISO joe is in his career. But that's not the basis of the article, It pretty much piggy backing on my thread about keeping melo for another yr. Trading him now for lesser talent, longer contracts and end of the draft picks, is a desperarate personal feelings move, it's not good business decision, it's like 2 steps back. we are not contending next season for nothing more than a playoff birth, which we can do with melo, and at least 1 or 2 better players in tow
knicks1248 wrote:I said 5 yrs ago, that melo would never win a ring until he is a role player similar to where ISO joe is in his career. But that's not the basis of the article, It pretty much piggy backing on my thread about keeping melo for another yr. Trading him now for lesser talent, longer contracts and end of the draft picks, is a desperarate personal feelings move, it's not good business decision, it's like 2 steps back. we are not contending next season for nothing more than a playoff birth, which we can do with melo, and at least 1 or 2 better players in tow
OK but you're not getting anything for him (other than cap space) if he walks in a year. So if you can get lesser talent and a pick (without taking more salary), that's better. I doubt that's an option though.
Bonn1997 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:I said 5 yrs ago, that melo would never win a ring until he is a role player similar to where ISO joe is in his career. But that's not the basis of the article, It pretty much piggy backing on my thread about keeping melo for another yr. Trading him now for lesser talent, longer contracts and end of the draft picks, is a desperarate personal feelings move, it's not good business decision, it's like 2 steps back. we are not contending next season for nothing more than a playoff birth, which we can do with melo, and at least 1 or 2 better players in tow
OK but you're not getting anything for him (other than cap space) if he walks in a year. So if you can get lesser talent and a pick (without taking more salary), that's better. I doubt that's an option though.
The way Phil talked about Melo it doesn't seem like he's thinking about just giving him away. Sounds like he is going to hold the line on the value he gets back or just keep Melo. I fully expect some MAJOR negotiations to be going on tho. Melo is still very much a good scoring addition to a Playoff team. In fact the success of Joe Johnson actually enhances the interest in Melo IMO.
