Knicks · RealGM: Rival Execs: Phil Jackson Harming Carmelo Anthony's Trade Value (page 1)

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/245...

Executives of other NBA teams have been baffled by the way Phil Jackson has spoken publicly about the status of Carmelo Anthony with the New York Knicks.

With Anthony possessing a no-trade clause, Jackson has appeared to antagonize him into leaving the Knicks via trade.

“Phil made a statement basically that Carmelo’s a losing type of player. Well, if he’s a loser for the Knicks, he’s going to be a winner someplace else? That obviously didn’t help,” one Eastern Conference executive said.

“Tremendously,” another exec said when asked how much Jackson may have damaged Anthony’s trade value. “He essentially said, ‘I want to dump this guy.’ ”

Jackson spoke in negative terms about Anthony at the end of the regular season and again at the combine.

“Most owners would just roast you if you said something like that,” the Eastern exec said, theorizing the return for Anthony could be a protected first-round pick.

The Los Angeles Clippers, Cleveland Cavaliers and Boston Celtics have most been mentioned as possible trade partners for Anthony.

“People have done their homework and watched Carmelo and how he interacts and plays,” the first Eastern exec said. “Carmelo obviously needs a change of scenery, probably does a better job in a different city, but you’ve got to look at how he would fit. But I don’t think people are going to break the bank and give New York what they initially want.

“Carmelo can fit in with anybody with the right role. Hell, he’s a talented guy. Not many guys can score like him, but he’s not the All-Star he was. He’s a very talented player and if he goes to the right team and they tell him what role they’d like him to play, he could figure it out. … He has to accept, ‘OK, I’m not going to be the star, but I can play off a couple guys.’ ”

who are these quotes from? knicks1248?

KnicksFE wrote:
http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/245...

Executives of other NBA teams have been baffled by the way Phil Jackson has spoken publicly about the status of Carmelo Anthony with the New York Knicks.

With Anthony possessing a no-trade clause, Jackson has appeared to antagonize him into leaving the Knicks via trade.

“Phil made a statement basically that Carmelo’s a losing type of player. Well, if he’s a loser for the Knicks, he’s going to be a winner someplace else? That obviously didn’t help,” one Eastern Conference executive said.

“Tremendously,” another exec said when asked how much Jackson may have damaged Anthony’s trade value. “He essentially said, ‘I want to dump this guy.’ ”

Jackson spoke in negative terms about Anthony at the end of the regular season and again at the combine.

“Most owners would just roast you if you said something like that,” the Eastern exec said, theorizing the return for Anthony could be a protected first-round pick.

The Los Angeles Clippers, Cleveland Cavaliers and Boston Celtics have most been mentioned as possible trade partners for Anthony.

“People have done their homework and watched Carmelo and how he interacts and plays,” the first Eastern exec said. “Carmelo obviously needs a change of scenery, probably does a better job in a different city, but you’ve got to look at how he would fit. But I don’t think people are going to break the bank and give New York what they initially want.

“Carmelo can fit in with anybody with the right role. Hell, he’s a talented guy. Not many guys can score like him, but he’s not the All-Star he was. He’s a very talented player and if he goes to the right team and they tell him what role they’d like him to play, he could figure it out. … He has to accept, ‘OK, I’m not going to be the star, but I can play off a couple guys.’ ”

The good ole unnamed sources.....it's just media stirring shyt up is all. Probably Frank AssHola has something to do with it.

Can someone tell me how he spoke in negative terms about Melo at the combine cause i never heard him say anything negative about him at the combine?? He said he thinks Melo needs to go to a place that's gonna win and that's not in New York. Pleased tell me what he said that was negative?? The guy just says the truth which isn't done in sports these days like it's some unwritten rule or some shyt.

How could it not hurt his trade value?

Bonn1997 wrote:How could it not hurt his trade value?

He didn't have much trade value before Phil said anything because of his age, his contract and the way he's a offense only ISO player.

This is sooo retarded already; regurgitated criticisms

Phil is doing this because he's calling Melo out . Melo made the point that he doesn't want to stick around if he's not wanted here

It stands to reason that Phil has told him, in private, that he's better off elsewhere, and that Melo declined. My own suspicions is that it was a blow to his ego when teams weren't tripping over themselves to get him

Phil has upped the ante' by now publicly saying Melo is not part of the long term picture and he's doing it as politely as he can under the circumstances

I agree it would be better if none of this needed to be public but c'mon already. Isn't the situation obvious.

Melo is still a very talented picture; the biggest impediment is his contract and the problems it brings in the age of a (broken) salary cap

fishmike wrote:who are these quotes from? knicks1248?

You wish

His value as an uber paid 33 year old with a NTC won't ever be high. Even if PHil came out and gushed about what a great guy he is won't help his value.

All one has to do is look at our record, look at his stats and video of his play and GM"s all do this. They scout teams before they play them, they know all about Melo, his body language, talk to players, coach's, etc and know the gig.

Nothing good comes from talking down a player you're trying to trade, with an NTC. Nothing.

That's just a flat out lie by a reporter.. just because Phil has expressed a want to rebuild(first ever in NYC)and that melo will be better suited elsewhere ... that has no damage to his value ...when the celtics loose to Cleveland Phil will trade melo to the C's

Melo and #7 for crowder and #3

It comes down to expectations.
I can already imagine haters "Phil diminished Melo's value" for years after we trade him.

Just understand, Melo in a role on a very very good team will will be very good for him. If he is traded to Spurs, you think he won't succeed? He will, but not as a major cog on a team in transition. That is us and its not working. So I wish melo great success in the future but lets understand his trade value was never high, and anything in return is better than the Zero we would have recieved if we let him walk three years ago. Phil tried. And I suppose in his way Melo tried and did the best he could. Melo has to go to a team that he will not be top dog for him to win.

Brother Charley to the rescue......
https://www.fanragsports.com/nba/knicks/...

The MELO-drama continues.

Just the other day, several identified versions of an “Eastern Conference executive,” “another executive,” “opposing talent evaluator,” and “a veteran scout” gave their otherwise anonymous opinions on Phil Jackson’s decision to trade Carmelo Anthony.

The essence of what they all said: During his recent presser, Jackson denigrated Anthony’s game to the point of severely undercutting Melo’s trade value.

However, Jackson’s all-too-true evaluation of Anthony’s ball-stopping game doesn’t mean the Knicks are conducting a fire sale.

That’s because Melo’s positives and negatives are no secret around the league:

Give him the ball, and he can create (and make) shots from the low post to a few feet past the 3-point line.
He has lost his youthful hops, but he’s still strong enough to finish in a crowd.
Passing is not his forte.
He’s an okay rebounder.
He SOMETIMES plays hard on defense, but too often fails to make necessary rotations in order to save his energy for offense.
His defensive transitions are occasionally, not consistently, performed with care.
He’s popular with his teammates and never complains or (except for his recently exposed dalliance with a woman other than his wife) embarrasses himself in public.
All things considered, one “exec” claims that, instead of exchanging Melo for a “core” player, the best the Knicks could do would be to receive “a protected first-round pick.”

The “scout” says that Melo should play hardball by giving Jackson a list of acceptable teams, and that if no deal can be reached with the teams Anthony has selected, he should force the Knicks to buy him out and make him a free agent.

I respectfully (and sometimes disrespectfully) disagree with many of these views.

If Melo is wise enough to realize that at age 33, he’s no longer a full-time starting player, there’s a significant market for him.

Just consider how much Joe Johnson helped the Utah Jazz last season as a strictly iso-oriented go-to player off the bench.

It’s incontrovertible that Melo would be much better in that role than JJ.

Melo would absolutely flourish in a similar situation with a number of championship-contending teams. He’d be a good fit with the Spurs, L.A. Clippers, Wizards, Celtics, Raptors, Rockets, Grizzlies, Thunder, and even the Cavs.

So, then, rather than having to deal Melo for a pie-in-the-sky draft choice or a batch of bench players, expect Jackson to pull off a blockbuster deal sometime between the end of the season and the draft.

Perhaps all of the anonymous sources are employed by teams which share an active interest in obtaining Anthony, and therefore a common agenda: to somehow put pressure on Jackson to accept a lesser return from their own teams.

But fear not, Knicks fans.

Carmelo Anthony is still a highly-valued commodity and will certainly bring a plus-plus package when he is indeed traded.

Melo turning 33 hurts his trade value... case closed.

EnySpree wrote:Melo turning 33 hurts his trade value... case closed.

and for being the #four hundred and whatever worse defender in the league, and for posting career lows in various stats... we can do this all day.

When teams are deciding if or what they want to offer for Melo what are the factors? What Melo does on the court? Or what Phil Jackson says? I mean the suggestions here are beyond stupid.

GustavBahler wrote:Nothing good comes from talking down a player you're trying to trade, with an NTC. Nothing.

disagree. it might be the only way to get him off our books

fishmike wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Melo turning 33 hurts his trade value... case closed.

and for being the #four hundred and whatever worse defender in the league, and for posting career lows in various stats... we can do this all day.

When teams are deciding if or what they want to offer for Melo what are the factors? What Melo does on the court? Or what Phil Jackson says? I mean the suggestions here are beyond stupid.

It is both, this how the Knicks ended up with both Noah and Rose, it was not their on court production for sure. Somebody must have sold those players really good and the Knicks took the bait.

KnicksFE wrote:

fishmike wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Melo turning 33 hurts his trade value... case closed.

and for being the #four hundred and whatever worse defender in the league, and for posting career lows in various stats... we can do this all day.

When teams are deciding if or what they want to offer for Melo what are the factors? What Melo does on the court? Or what Phil Jackson says? I mean the suggestions here are beyond stupid.

It is both, this how the Knicks ended up with both Noah and Rose, it was not their on court production for sure. Somebody must have sold those players really good and the Knicks took the bait.

like who?

fishmike wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Melo turning 33 hurts his trade value... case closed.

and for being the #four hundred and whatever worse defender in the league, and for posting career lows in various stats... we can do this all day.

When teams are deciding if or what they want to offer for Melo what are the factors? What Melo does on the court? Or what Phil Jackson says? I mean the suggestions here are beyond stupid.

When deciding whether they want Melo, they'll look at what Melo does on the court.
When deciding what to offer for Melo, they'll try to figure out how much Phil will demand in a trade and make sure they don't offer anything more. This is where what Phil says matters.

Chandler wrote:This is sooo retarded already; regurgitated criticisms

Phil is doing this because he's calling Melo out . Melo made the point that he doesn't want to stick around if he's not wanted here

It stands to reason that Phil has told him, in private, that he's better off elsewhere, and that Melo declined. My own suspicions is that it was a blow to his ego when teams weren't tripping over themselves to get him

Phil has upped the ante' by now publicly saying Melo is not part of the long term picture and he's doing it as politely as he can under the circumstances

I agree it would be better if none of this needed to be public but c'mon already. Isn't the situation obvious.

Melo is still a very talented picture; the biggest impediment is his contract and the problems it brings in the age of a (broken) salary cap

If that's the case, what a shitty, dysfunctional approach. After the bold part, a well-run organization would just accept that they're stuck with the player they gave the NTC to for 2 seasons IMO or continue to try to change the player's mind privately. They wouldn't try to change the player's mind by devaluing him publicly. This just makes us look even more ridiculous and undesirable to future players.

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Melo turning 33 hurts his trade value... case closed.

and for being the #four hundred and whatever worse defender in the league, and for posting career lows in various stats... we can do this all day.

When teams are deciding if or what they want to offer for Melo what are the factors? What Melo does on the court? Or what Phil Jackson says? I mean the suggestions here are beyond stupid.

When deciding whether they want Melo, they'll look at what Melo does on the court.
When deciding what to offer for Melo, they'll try to figure out how much Phil will demand in a trade and make sure they don't offer anything more. This is where what Phil says matters.

Exactly, this is how GMs like D. Ainge ended up trading his veterans for lottery picks to help his rebuild, meanwhile the Knicks, who knows what.

Chandler wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Nothing good comes from talking down a player you're trying to trade, with an NTC. Nothing.

disagree. it might be the only way to get him off our books

I think so too.

For whatever reason, I think Melo has been playing a power game with Phil since mid-season or so. Phil has repeatedly said that he's spoken with Melo, that he attends practice to be available, and that he's contacted Melo both in person and using text messages.

Melo has denied that these things have happened. Phil is a no BS, straight shooter - why would we disbelieve him. Why would Melo be the exception of ALL the stars Phil has had official contact with be different? I think its because Melo heard something new to his experience - "ENOUGH. NO MORE!"

Phil also laments that news of mid-season trade talks leaked to the press. The Knicks have been very good at keeping confidentiality - methinks the "leak" came from a Melo-centric source.

So, IMO, when Melo shyly acted bewildered about what the Knicks might be thinking, he knew exactly what they were thinking. And so by publicly putting Phil on the spot by insisting over and over, "I WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE KNICKS PLAN IS?" - he was not asking anything. He was insisting Phil say, "OH, its all about you Melo - nod, wink - you can keep F'n off while we lose because of that magic NTC."

That kind of ultimatum stance certainly opened the door for what Phil has been saying publicly. If Melo was going to publicly insist that he was innocently unaware of what Phil had in mind, Phil had every right to spell it out in public.

EnySpree wrote:Melo turning 33 hurts his trade value... case closed.

IF YOU have no use for a car, and need money desperately, I don't care if it's a 100k car, im going to low ball you and give you $50k cash.

Phil didn't say anything really negative about melo, he just makes it seem like he has no use for him at all....IMO that was the devalue part,

If he at least said he would be ok on keeping him in a more reduce role if he wants to stay and play out his contract, but base on his time line and where the franchise is at today, he maybe better off playing for a more serious contender. That to me would sound so much better