Knicks · Melo slays another all time great (page 1)

Sinix @ 6/28/2017 7:18 AM
George Karl- all time great winner
Mike D'antoni- has pushed multiple teams to the next level, has gotten the most out of a lot of star players..... couldn't instruct Melo. Just won COTY.
Phil Jackson- The ultimate team and culture builder. And winner. Cut down by a fat lazy 32 year old.

Can't wait to hear what Phil says about Melo down the line. Here's some excerpts I posted yesterday of Melo's former leaders talking about what we're left as we've chosen Melo over Phil. Think about it. Melo threw a mutiny towards Phil and won. Melo has won the Lebron role for the Knicks for all intents purposes. Think about the culture this guy brings in as the clubhouse leader now? It's not bright days ahead.

"He was the best offensive player I ever coached. He was also a user of people, addicted to the spotlight and very unhappy when he had to share it."

“I want as much effort on defense — maybe more — as on offense,” Karl penned. “That was never going to happen with Melo, whose amazing ability to score with the ball made him a star but didn’t make him a winner.

“He really lit my fuse with his low demand of himself on defense,” he continued. “He had no commitment to the hard, dirty work of stopping the other guy. But since Carmelo only played hard on one side of the ball, he made it plain he couldn’t lead the Nuggets, even though he said he wanted to. Coaching him meant working around his defense and compensating for his attitude. I’d have to try to figure him out, too. How could I get more from him?”

He was such a talented kid. If he’d decided to lead the league in rebounding, or to become the best defender at his position in the NBA, he could have done either one.
But Kenyon and Carmelo carried two big burdens: all that money, and no father to show them how to act like a man."

"Our main problem was that he liked to separate himself from our team. A player can talk back to me, we can argue, but that’s between us. One player is a lot less important than how everyone performs together. I don’t think Melo cared enough about being a good teammate.

But he got away with some **** over the years because he made All-Star teams and averaged 24-6-3 (points, rebounds, assists). His incidents were spaced out, so listing them here may make them sound worse than they were. If all my screwups were compressed into one paragraph, I’d look pretty bad, too, but Melo had a pattern of bad judgment.

He got a DUI; he got busted at the airport for having a bag of weed in his backpack; he got in a bar fight; he got suspended for fifteen games for punching a Knick during our infamous brawl in 2006. And he did a

Kenyon when he refused to go back into the last minute or two in a game on the road against the Pistons. That didn’t make his coach too happy.

But his real WTF moment occurred in March 2009 in the third quarter of a game against the Pacers. Carmelo had not scored much all night but then made two in a row. It was time for him to come out for a rest so I sent in his backup, Linas Kleiza, as I usually did. At the next dead ball, LK went in. But Carmelo refused to come out! After long moments of people staring at each other in confusion, but before we got a technical foul for having too many men on the court, Kenyon, to his credit, walked to the bench.

Well, well, well. Here was a new wrinkle in the coach/player power struggle, one I’d never seen before. It was also an incredible F-U to me. We suspended him for the next game.

After the game, which we lost 100–94, I had to talk to the media about it. Should I show my disgust at Melo’s childishness and lack of respect? No. I tried to be calm and understanding of behavior I couldn’t understand at all. So I swallowed my tongue. “There’s a thin line between passion and emotional immaturity,” I said. “It happens all the time, to coaches, too. We snap and act like idiots on the sideline because of the emotional stress of the game.”

The positive side of this incident was that it embarrassed Carmelo. He played harder and better for a while. Not coincidentally, we made a deep playoff run."
now quotes many years later from Mike D'antoni-

“(Carmelo and I) don’t have a bad relationship. I speak to him. He’s a good guy,” D’Antoni, who coached Anthony as an assistant with Team USA, said last year on The Vertical podcast. “But I had one vision that I wanted him to play one way. He wanted to go the other way. I couldn’t get to my way.”

-----

“Anthony said the team needed to choose between him and D’Antoni.”
“I just went in and quit,” D’Antoni said.

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Knixkik @ 6/28/2017 7:20 AM
Not sure about your title. D'antoni is awesome, but far from a great coach. Karl absolutely was a not a "great" coach. Both are/were good coaches. Phil not a great president, but a great coach. We know how this franchise is ran. But the PR disaster was taken to new heights. This was necessarily.
Paris907 @ 6/28/2017 7:23 AM
Aka a loser and a slug.
Sinix @ 6/28/2017 7:23 AM
Knixkik wrote:Not sure about your title. D'antoni is awesome, but far from a great coach. Karl absolutely was a not a "great" coach. Both are/were good coaches. Phil not a great president, but a great coach. We know how this franchise is ran. But the PR disaster was taken to new heights. This was necessarily.

D'antoni just won coach of the year and he's far from a great coach? What kind of standards are you using?

George Karl made it to multiple NBA finals and is up there on the all time wins list.

These guys are indisputable top basketball minds in the history of the NBA.

Knixkik @ 6/28/2017 7:25 AM
Sinix wrote:
Knixkik wrote:Not sure about your title. D'antoni is awesome, but far from a great coach. Karl absolutely was a not a "great" coach. Both are/were good coaches. Phil not a great president, but a great coach. We know how this franchise is ran. But the PR disaster was taken to new heights. This was necessarily.

D'antoni just won coach of the year and he's far from a great coach? What kind of standards are you using?

George Karl made it to multiple NBA finals and is up there on the all time wins list.

These guys are indisputable top basketball minds in the history of the NBA.


Are either of them hall of fame coaches?
nyknickzingis @ 6/28/2017 7:26 AM
Sorry this is on KP as well.
KP clearly made a power play.
Dolan was on board with a Melo trade.
The final straw was when Phil put KP in trade talk.
KP and Melo teamed up and made sure Phil go out.

They need to back it up on the court now.

As usual the Knicks let the players run the asylum.
Porzingis better become a great player now. You just helped run a 11 time champion (who drafted you against most people's wishes) out of town so you can hoist up any shot you like.

Sinix @ 6/28/2017 7:26 AM
You know it would be great if melo could slay some all time greats on the court like lbj or Durant but have to settle for him winning vs an all time great like Phil Jackson.
VCoug @ 6/28/2017 7:27 AM
Not to defend Melo, since I don't really like him and would love to get him off the team (if only somebody hadn't given him a no trade clause), everyone who's played for George Karl hates him and MDA has a long history of grating on his players. And, prior to the Knicks hiring him, what team has Phil ever built?
yellowboy90 @ 6/28/2017 7:27 AM
Sinix wrote:
Knixkik wrote:Not sure about your title. D'antoni is awesome, but far from a great coach. Karl absolutely was a not a "great" coach. Both are/were good coaches. Phil not a great president, but a great coach. We know how this franchise is ran. But the PR disaster was taken to new heights. This was necessarily.

D'antoni just won coach of the year and he's far from a great coach? What kind of standards are you using?

George Karl made it to multiple NBA finals and is up there on the all time wins list.

These guys are indisputable top basketball minds in the history of the NBA.

So he got George Karl fired while he was on the Knicks. Now that is reach. Melo got Karl fired after he was free of all of Melo's shortcomings. That's some serious power you think Melo has.

Sinix @ 6/28/2017 7:29 AM
VCoug wrote:Not to defend Melo, since I don't really like him and would love to get him off the team (if only somebody hadn't given him a no trade clause), everyone who's played for George Karl hates him and MDA has a long history of grating on his players. And, prior to the Knicks hiring him, what team has Phil ever built?


You're missing the point.

All these all time great winners say the same thing. Do you think there's a chance all 3 are wrong?

nyknickzingis @ 6/28/2017 7:33 AM
Melo's powerplay was with KP.
He convinced KP Phil was a problem.
KP did the actual power play by not showing up to camp and challenging Phil.

I'm just afraid at the future tone this sets for KP.
He's already played a Lebron James like star move.
What if he actually becomes an all-star?
Will he dictate everything or push for a move anytime something goes wrong?

I don't know. We should have traded Melo, and the future is brighter without Melo than it is with him.

KP we should definitely be keeping him along with Willy and Nti.

Uptown @ 6/28/2017 7:34 AM
Knicks are 80-166 since phil took over but its Melo's fault! A toxic cloud has descends over the franshise, one that phil promised to clean up, only to make it worse but its Melo's fault! Melo forced phil to give him the NTC and refused to give it back, Melo's fault! Phil traded for Rose, signed, Noah to an absurd contract, in hopes of making a the playoffs but its Melo's fault!...Phil is the highest paid exec in the league, by far, but you don't want to hold him accountable because its Melo's fault!...KP skipped the exit meetings, its Melo's fault! We can go on an on...

It seems like phil wanted out...numerous reporters have said as much weeks ago and its looks like thats the case...Phil has been settingup Melo to take the fall for weeks now...

Uptown @ 6/28/2017 7:36 AM
nyknickzingis wrote:Melo's powerplay was with KP.
He convinced KP Phil was a problem.
KP did the actual power play by not showing up to camp and challenging Phil.

I'm just afraid at the future tone this sets for KP.
He's already played a Lebron James like star move.
What if he actually becomes an all-star?
Will he dictate everything or push for a move anytime something goes wrong?

I don't know. We should have traded Melo, and the future is brighter without Melo than it is with him.

KP we should definitely be keeping him along with Willy and Nti.

BS! Where's the proof?! Why can't we accept that KP acted on his own with the help of his team (brothers)?

GustavBahler @ 6/28/2017 7:37 AM
Uptown wrote:Knicks are 80-166 since phil took over but its Melo's fault! A toxic cloud has descends over the franshise, one that phil promised to clean up, only to make it worse but its Melo's fault! Melo forced phil to give him the NTC and refused to give it back, Melo's fault! Phil traded for Rose, signed, Noah to an absurd contract, in hopes of making a the playoffs but its Melo's fault!...Phil is the highest paid exec in the league, by far, but you don't want to hold him accountable because its Melo's fault!...KP skipped the exit meetings, its Melo's fault! We can go on an on...

It seems like phil wanted out...numerous reporters have said as much weeks ago and its looks like thats the case...Phil has been settingup Melo to take the fall for weeks now...

Phil could trade KP for a bag of chips, and we would be hearing how these chips know the Triangle.

smackeddog @ 6/28/2017 7:38 AM
Now we're stuck with melo for 2 years- should help keep us from landing a top pick by adding 4 or so wins to our record each year and insuring our defense stinks
Sinix @ 6/28/2017 7:39 AM
Uptown wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:Melo's powerplay was with KP.
He convinced KP Phil was a problem.
KP did the actual power play by not showing up to camp and challenging Phil.

I'm just afraid at the future tone this sets for KP.
He's already played a Lebron James like star move.
What if he actually becomes an all-star?
Will he dictate everything or push for a move anytime something goes wrong?

I don't know. We should have traded Melo, and the future is brighter without Melo than it is with him.

KP we should definitely be keeping him along with Willy and Nti.

BS! Where's the proof?! Why can't we accept that KP acted on his own with the help of his team (brothers)?

The writing is on the wall.

Melo was always a leader to KP.

Look how melo has treated management. The attitude he's had towards their direction.

Then look at where kps behavior evolved to.

Put 2 and 2 together.

Uptown @ 6/28/2017 7:40 AM
smackeddog wrote:Now we're stuck with melo for 2 years- should help keep us from landing a top pick by adding 4 or so wins to our record each year and insuring our defense stinks

We were stuck with him regardless, thanks to phil...Why don't you guys acknowledge this?!

nyknickzingis @ 6/28/2017 7:41 AM
Uptown wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:Melo's powerplay was with KP.
He convinced KP Phil was a problem.
KP did the actual power play by not showing up to camp and challenging Phil.

I'm just afraid at the future tone this sets for KP.
He's already played a Lebron James like star move.
What if he actually becomes an all-star?
Will he dictate everything or push for a move anytime something goes wrong?

I don't know. We should have traded Melo, and the future is brighter without Melo than it is with him.

KP we should definitely be keeping him along with Willy and Nti.

BS! Where's the proof?! Why can't we accept that KP acted on his own with the help of his team (brothers)?


Oh, I believe completely KP is to blame and made his own move, but Melo was part of that for sure.
He and Melo are boys. After Phil talked about Melo in the post-season PC, Melo made a comment that KP right away liked.
The two of them definitely made this move together.

I don't even have a problem with it, because Phil dug his own grave by shopping Porzingis. Not many owners will let you do that. If it's down to KP vs Phil, KP wins every time. I don't think Phil was actually going to trade Porzingis though.

Uptown @ 6/28/2017 7:42 AM
Sinix wrote:
Uptown wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:Melo's powerplay was with KP.
He convinced KP Phil was a problem.
KP did the actual power play by not showing up to camp and challenging Phil.

I'm just afraid at the future tone this sets for KP.
He's already played a Lebron James like star move.
What if he actually becomes an all-star?
Will he dictate everything or push for a move anytime something goes wrong?

I don't know. We should have traded Melo, and the future is brighter without Melo than it is with him.

KP we should definitely be keeping him along with Willy and Nti.

BS! Where's the proof?! Why can't we accept that KP acted on his own with the help of his team (brothers)?

The writing is on the wall.

Melo was always a leader to KP.

Look how melo has treated management. The attitude he's had towards their direction.

Then look at where kps behavior evolved to.

Put 2 and 2 together.

I been put 2 and 2 together...you are syniko (sp) and you joined during the height of linsanity...you would create numerous threads calling Melo juvenile names like fat Melo, etc...you blamed Melo for Lins departure and you haven't let it go...its clear you have an agenda and biased view.

GustavBahler @ 6/28/2017 7:42 AM
smackeddog wrote:Now we're stuck with melo for 2 years- should help keep us from landing a top pick by adding 4 or so wins to our record each year and insuring our defense stinks

Not necessarily IMO. Depends how Mgmt. approaches Melo. Pretty sure Melo would be interested in any deal that gets him closer to a title while being close to his family. Probably more receptive now that Phil is gone. If he does stay, wouldnt you think that he would want to be DadMelo again to have the last word?

Jmpasq @ 6/28/2017 7:46 AM
2018, 2020, 2022 draft picks for Lamarcus Aldridge thats where we are headed
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