meloshouldgo wrote:Sinix wrote:This helps put the Knicks in the worst position in the NBA.Not talented enough to make the playoffs(even in the east...) and not bad enough to put themselves in position to draft a game changer.
What the hell was the point of getting rid of Phil?
Yes this our comfort zone. Can't win and won't rebuild. Same old Knicks.
We are good at sucking - we've been doing it successfully for two decades now.
Sucks tho be a fan and watch this train wreck repeat itself.
I get that franchises want to win, want to be competitive. They don't want to lose on purpose.
I'm certainly not advocating a Hinkie-style rebuild - I don't think anyone really is.
But for gods sake! Look at the talent you have on the roster, evaluate where it can be reasonably expected to get you & make a judgement about how your going to improve- not to simply win a few more games, but to be in a position to be a serious championship contender.
I think we're several pieces away. I'm not a professional, but we supposedly have some in our front office.
Somehow, they are under the delusion that we're close to being something we're not- a play off team.
We won 30 games last year. How does adding Tim Hardaway Jr. and taking away Melo change that?
I get Hardway's improved, and Melo was a minus. Is that really worth 10 wins?
This is Dolan Starphuck all over again. Maybe we haven't traded future picks away (YET), but the win now at all costs mentality appears to be back.
I can see the logic of keeping Lee and bringing him off the bench. Lee is better than a bench player, but maybe not good enough to be a full time starter, at his age anyway. The Knicks are gambling on THJ being that guy. Lee would be around if Hardaway struggles his first season back.
Really cant evaluate the offseason until we know what the Knicks are going to do at PG. Believed they overpaid for THJ, but a good pass first PG (stop gap or not) will help bring out the most out of Hardaway's game. Ive seen that he is more aggressive now, but as a starting SG, I think he is going to need all the help he can get. The whole team for that matter to compete with some of the better teams in the East.
Also have to see if any more deals like for Noah are made. Are the Knicks are going to keep their young core, or will this youth movement be short lived? Knicks too often say one thing as an organization and do the opposite.
I dont believe this is an extension of Phil's plan at all, wishful thinking for some. Hardaway is back, the Triangle is history (or back to a side dish) Players arent being scouted for the old system. Rose is out of the picture.
For better or worse its a new direction. Too early to call it either way IMO. It looks more like the path the team was on before Lopez was traded for Rose, and Noah was brought in. A team on a gradual rise, not a quick fix to make the back pages.
If this is putting us back on that course, then I'm all for it. If some retreads start showing up in large numbers, and the youth movement goes out the door, then we'll know its the same old Knicks.
I think Lee is gone if the right deal comes up for a young player/draft pick. Mills may want to keep him around for some roster continuity and a vet presence. I think Lee would much rather be on a more veteran, competitive team.
I dont see keeping Lee as a sign that the team wants to win now. He is not that good. I also am not sure why the Knicks are being seen as an organization trying to win now. Signing a young player that you think is going to grow and be a part of your young core isn't a win now move. Drafting an 18 year old point guard isn't a win now move. Trading Melo isn't a win now move.
Just wanted to add this team is good enough to make playoffs as is. Gotto ezpect KP to step up, i would expect KP to solve his offense weakness, particularly not being able to dominate guards in the post. THJ looks like a stud from the footage ive seen from last year (if you havent check out facebook, youtube before commenting). Melo is a an all star player who has been dedicating to improvingbhus game all off-season. Frank we have seen but if his defense is as advertised and can runn and offense moving the ball and contributing on offense I think we have a solid all around team.
Tanking IMO is not the direction we should be taking. You can find game changers outside of the top 5 picks. Never a guarantee a lottery pick will make it in the NBA...check the history. Willy, KP, THJ, Frank are all players of our future.. Thats 4 of 5 starting players...not sure I understand the need to tank. Add in Kuz, Dotson, and baker and thats even more youth for our future. Talent is here..lets see how team plays not under the triangle anymore.
Having a rookie pg and two smallish guys on the wing basically ensures we'll suck
Also, I think that if Lee puts up 40% from there again, he'll be us a first rounder
Cavs celtics raptors bucks wizards... spots 6,7,8 is up in the air as far as I'm concerned and I think we can make the playoffs
I'd like to keep Lee. We can't have a team that consists of just kids and expect to attain a winning culture.
I could see Lee having a lot of value to a contending team. If we have to pretend Lee is in our plans in order to increase his trade price tag, so be it.
Welpee wrote:I could see Lee having a lot of value to a contending team. If we have to pretend Lee is in our plans in order to increase his trade price tag, so be it.
Right. That's the other thing. We don't know what the actual plan with Lee is. We don't want a front office broadcasting that Lee needs to go to a contending team and doesn't fit here.
I like Lee, but considering his age and considering also that we have Dotson behind Hardaway, I'd try to trade him for a younger player - maybe a 3.
franco12 wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:Sinix wrote:This helps put the Knicks in the worst position in the NBA.Not talented enough to make the playoffs(even in the east...) and not bad enough to put themselves in position to draft a game changer.
What the hell was the point of getting rid of Phil?
Yes this our comfort zone. Can't win and won't rebuild. Same old Knicks.
We are good at sucking - we've been doing it successfully for two decades now.
Sucks tho be a fan and watch this train wreck repeat itself.
I get that franchises want to win, want to be competitive. They don't want to lose on purpose.
I'm certainly not advocating a Hinkie-style rebuild - I don't think anyone really is.
But for gods sake! Look at the talent you have on the roster, evaluate where it can be reasonably expected to get you & make a judgement about how your going to improve- not to simply win a few more games, but to be in a position to be a serious championship contender.
I think we're several pieces away. I'm not a professional, but we supposedly have some in our front office.
Somehow, they are under the delusion that we're close to being something we're not- a play off team.
We won 30 games last year. How does adding Tim Hardaway Jr. and taking away Melo change that?
I get Hardway's improved, and Melo was a minus. Is that really worth 10 wins?
This is Dolan Starphuck all over again. Maybe we haven't traded future picks away (YET), but the win now at all costs mentality appears to be back.
A Hinkie style rebuild is exactly what is needed, but includes the whole organization. Mills, H2O and the rest need to go as well. It will never happen, instead we will suck for the next 20 years.
The off season is still young. Melo would have to be moved first for Lee to get the start. Then Griffin when he comes in will have to feel the same way which I doubt. He will look to line up contracts for 2018-2019.
frenchy00 wrote:Just wanted to add this team is good enough to make playoffs as is. Gotto ezpect KP to step up, i would expect KP to solve his offense weakness, particularly not being able to dominate guards in the post. THJ looks like a stud from the footage ive seen from last year (if you havent check out facebook, youtube before commenting). Melo is a an all star player who has been dedicating to improvingbhus game all off-season. Frank we have seen but if his defense is as advertised and can runn and offense moving the ball and contributing on offense I think we have a solid all around team.Tanking IMO is not the direction we should be taking. You can find game changers outside of the top 5 picks. Never a guarantee a lottery pick will make it in the NBA...check the history. Willy, KP, THJ, Frank are all players of our future.. Thats 4 of 5 starting players...not sure I understand the need to tank. Add in Kuz, Dotson, and baker and thats even more youth for our future. Talent is here..lets see how team plays not under the triangle anymore.
Your opinion is wrong..... but a lot of Knicks fans are shortsighted so unfortunately you're not alone
newyorknewyork wrote:The off season is still young. Melo would have to be moved first for Lee to get the start. Then Griffin when he comes in will have to feel the same way which I doubt. He will look to line up contracts for 2018-2019.
My thing us with Griffin coming in, he would have to be in agreement with whay the Knicks are already doing. Were not going to hire anyone that's just going to come in and undo everything. That's just common sense. Were not hiring a figure head. Were hiring a guy that will add credibility as fresh ideas to the pot.
It's the same thing when horny got hired. Horny agreed to run the triangle he agreed also to run his sets mixed in with the triangle. He agree to that. It's not like the knick hired him and then forcing him to run something he doesn't want to run. He agreed to run that triangle mix in with his own system. That's the whole point of us hiring him. They had dinner the same thing like they doing the Griffin now you got to have these talks and stuff in order to get everyone on the same page. Once everyone agrees that they can work together then we'll make the hire that's just how it goes. Guys automatically think that we hire a guy that's going to be a whole bunch of drama it's not always have to go that way that's that's what everyone thinks is going to happen but I mean this is real life. You know guys have to all agree to things and then they work together that's how we should work. That's what growing a healthy culture in an organization is all about.
EnySpree wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:The off season is still young. Melo would have to be moved first for Lee to get the start. Then Griffin when he comes in will have to feel the same way which I doubt. He will look to line up contracts for 2018-2019.
My thing us with Griffin coming in, he would have to be in agreement with whay the Knicks are already doing. Were not going to hire anyone that's just going to come in and undo everything. That's just common sense. Were not hiring a figure head. Were hiring a guy that will add credibility as fresh ideas to the pot.
It's the same thing when horny got hired. Horny agreed to run the triangle he agreed also to run his sets mixed in with the triangle. He agree to that. It's not like the knick hired him and then forcing him to run something he doesn't want to run. He agreed to run that triangle mix in with his own system. That's the whole point of us hiring him. They had dinner the same thing like they doing the Griffin now you got to have these talks and stuff in order to get everyone on the same page. Once everyone agrees that they can work together then we'll make the hire that's just how it goes. Guys automatically think that we hire a guy that's going to be a whole bunch of drama it's not always have to go that way that's that's what everyone thinks is going to happen but I mean this is real life. You know guys have to all agree to things and then they work together that's how we should work. That's what growing a healthy culture in an organization is all about.
I agree, I don't think moving Lee translates into uprooting the whole operation though. Sure they made a comment about Lee playing with Hardaway but are they dead set on that or is that just what they are willing to do what they have? Signing Hardaway before moving Lee immedialty lowers Lee's value somewhat as teams now think we are desperate to move him. By claiming that he isn't on the block and in the plans to start alongside of Hardaway imo is more of a way to keep his value up. I can bet teams as soon as we signed Hardaway came calling with crap offers for Lee.
Why would we even thinking about trading him. .he shoots the 3 plays D and a good contract
This damn organization can't make up its mind. Are we tanking for Porter or Doncic or trying to have enough vets to make it to the 8th seed (which is stupid but thats another conversation)
wargames wrote:This damn organization can't make up its mind. Are we tanking for Porter or Doncic or trying to have enough vets to make it to the 8th seed (which is stupid but thats another conversation)
They never were tanking for Porter or Doncic. That was speculation by media due to them not making any moves. Their goals seems to be to build a core of players around the age of 24-25 that matches with Frank 18, KP 22, Willy 23. They will probably look for another player within that age group to add to the roster at SF. Or they may think Dotson can be groomed as one under Horny in a yr or 2.
wargames wrote:This damn organization can't make up its mind. Are we tanking for Porter or Doncic or trying to have enough vets to make it to the 8th seed (which is stupid but thats another conversation)
We are trying to build a young team without purposely trying to lose as many games as possible. Once again, why do people think tanking is the only way to build a team?
TPercy wrote:Cavs celtics raptors bucks wizards... spots 6,7,8 is up in the air as far as I'm concerned and I think we can make the playoffs
I'd add the Heat and Hornets as teams that will be better than the Knicks for sure and can see the Knicks right there with the 76ers fighting for the 8th seed. There's actually a legit chance that we make the playoffs next year which of course hurts us for the draft.
