Said this in another post.
I think the Knicks will be running the Hornachek secondary breaking/early offense much more this year.
With that in mind having a top 30 three point shooter in the league will be valuable as heck.
According to Begley, Knicks signed THj with having Tim and Courtney to play together.
We play smaller at the perimeter next year having CLee, Tim and Frank all out there as a 3-2-1.
CLee would be a big upgrade coming off the bench. One of our big weaknesses last year was lack of a bench. Holiday was probably our best wing off the bench. A second unit backcourt of CLee/Baker is bringing two of last year's starters (to close off the season) off the bench.
Major question right now is who starts at 3 if Melo is traded.
I guess they want mostly young players but want to win right now. Trading Lee for just a draft pick would mean 1 step backwards now and 2 steps forward later. Maybe if the season doesn't go well they'll trade him by the deadline though.
Bonn1997 wrote:I guess they want mostly young players but want to win right now. Trading Lee for just a draft pick would mean 1 step backwards now and 2 steps forward later. Maybe if the season doesn't go well they'll trade him by the deadline though.
Bingo.
I think they want to stay competitive for KP's sake. KP's made it clear he does not want to be on a tanking team or a confused state.
If Knicks put out pure tank lineups, not sure KP will sign the extension next summer. Meaning they may want to trade him for a young player and a high lottery draft pick in 2018.
KP doesn't even want Melo gone. If you trade Melo, any Melo trade sets you back a few wins. You go from a 30-35 win team to a 25 win team. If they make some other good moves, if KP improves himself and so do some other young players, I could see us stay in the same area we have been the last few years. I don't think there is any circumstance we make the playoffs, unless somehow Frank or Willy or THj are on an all-star level (that we can not reasonably expect).
This helps put the Knicks in the worst position in the NBA.
Not talented enough to make the playoffs(even in the east...) and not bad enough to put themselves in position to draft a game changer.
What the hell was the point of getting rid of Phil?
Sinix wrote:This helps put the Knicks in the worst position in the NBA.Not talented enough to make the playoffs(even in the east...) and not bad enough to put themselves in position to draft a game changer.
What the hell was the point of getting rid of Phil?
I think the reason they detached from Phil was the strained relationship with Melo and KP.
Before the Phil exit, Melo's camp was aiming for a buy out. I think it was a game of chickem and Melo simply wanted to one up Phil. With Phil gone, Melo is now cooperating.
Then KP, well, we all know what Phil was doing regarding KP. Put him on the trade block to teach a lesson.
I don't think there's any big thinking or planning strategy change with Phil gone. They simply wanted better relationships - business relationships with their top 2 stars. Melo and KP. It's a player's league.
nyknickzingis wrote:Sinix wrote:This helps put the Knicks in the worst position in the NBA.Not talented enough to make the playoffs(even in the east...) and not bad enough to put themselves in position to draft a game changer.
What the hell was the point of getting rid of Phil?
I think the reason they detached from Phil was the strained relationship with Melo and KP.
Before the Phil exit, Melo's camp was aiming for a buy out. I think it was a game of chickem and Melo simply wanted to one up Phil. With Phil gone, Melo is now cooperating.
Then KP, well, we all know what Phil was doing regarding KP. Put him on the trade block to teach a lesson.I don't think there's any big thinking or planning strategy change with Phil gone. They simply wanted better relationships - business relationships with their top 2 stars. Melo and KP. It's a player's league.
Terrible job by the Knicks. They've set the franchise back years by trying to go into this quasi competing mode.
You know who had good relationships around the league and used them for the Knicks. Isiah Thomas. This team has an Isiah feel all over it.
Makes sense he gives us more depth at the 2 position.
Frank/Baker
THJR/Lee/randle
Harkless/Ariza(whatever Sf we get back)/Lance/kuz
KP/KOQ
Willy/Noah
Going forward we still have holes to fix but it's a decent start
I will give them one compliment.
So far, they've only been willing to go after young players.
If they really wanted to compete in the win now mode, they would have kept Melo.
I think they want to do both be competitive and re-build around a young core of players. Right now that core is Willy, KP, Hardaway and Ntilkina.
This is not like spending on veteran stars on decline. We are investing heavily in young players on the rise, which is what we should have been doing for years. I see some differences.
nyknickzingis wrote:I will give them one compliment.
So far, they've only been willing to go after young players.
If they really wanted to compete in the win now mode, they would have kept Melo.
I think they want to do both be competitive and re-build around a young core of players. Right now that core is Willy, KP, Hardaway and Ntilkina.This is not like spending on veteran stars on decline. We are investing heavily in young players on the rise, which is what we should have been doing for years. I see some differences.
Melo with the right mindset would help win now. If Melo is the same as last year, he is just adding losses. Virtually every possible lineup was worse with him last year. I think they think they can get younger players who will help the team more right now than an unhappy Melo helps us.
nyknickzingis wrote:I will give them one compliment.
So far, they've only been willing to go after young players.
If they really wanted to compete in the win now mode, they would have kept Melo.
I think they want to do both be competitive and re-build around a young core of players. Right now that core is Willy, KP, Hardaway and Ntilkina.This is not like spending on veteran stars on decline. We are investing heavily in young players on the rise, which is what we should have been doing for years. I see some differences.
Isiah Thomas spent on young talent as well. Young talent ain't the holy grail.
Sinix wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:I will give them one compliment.
So far, they've only been willing to go after young players.
If they really wanted to compete in the win now mode, they would have kept Melo.
I think they want to do both be competitive and re-build around a young core of players. Right now that core is Willy, KP, Hardaway and Ntilkina.This is not like spending on veteran stars on decline. We are investing heavily in young players on the rise, which is what we should have been doing for years. I see some differences.
Isiah Thomas spent on young talent as well. Young talent ain't the holy grail.
There's nothing similar about their method of evaluation or their backgrounds though. Mills is a intellectual guy who favors a metrics approach. He was a successful businessman and NBA executive. Isiah - I'm not sure how he was evaluating players and he wasn't successful at anything after his playing career.
Lee is a good one, but why not Holiday? I still feel bad about losing him.
mlby1215 wrote:Lee is a good one, but why not Holiday? I still feel bad about losing him.
I don't at all.
THJR, Lee, and Dotson more than suffices.
Bonn1997 wrote:Sinix wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:I will give them one compliment.
So far, they've only been willing to go after young players.
If they really wanted to compete in the win now mode, they would have kept Melo.
I think they want to do both be competitive and re-build around a young core of players. Right now that core is Willy, KP, Hardaway and Ntilkina.This is not like spending on veteran stars on decline. We are investing heavily in young players on the rise, which is what we should have been doing for years. I see some differences.
Isiah Thomas spent on young talent as well. Young talent ain't the holy grail.
There's nothing similar about their method of evaluation or their backgrounds though. Mills is a intellectual guy who favors a metrics approach. He was a successful businessman and NBA executive. Isiah - I'm not sure how he was evaluating players and he wasn't successful at anything after his playing career.
I'm not so sure Isiah isn't pulling strings currently. Mills is a spineless jellyfish and a yes man to Dolan.
I don't know what you mean by metrics because the build of this team is not pretty.
Like it was said earlier in the topic, Knicks aren't good enough to make the 8 seed in an epicly awful eastern conference and they won't be bad enough to draft a meaningful young player a year from now. Basically the worst position you could be in.
Sinix wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:Sinix wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:I will give them one compliment.
So far, they've only been willing to go after young players.
If they really wanted to compete in the win now mode, they would have kept Melo.
I think they want to do both be competitive and re-build around a young core of players. Right now that core is Willy, KP, Hardaway and Ntilkina.This is not like spending on veteran stars on decline. We are investing heavily in young players on the rise, which is what we should have been doing for years. I see some differences.
Isiah Thomas spent on young talent as well. Young talent ain't the holy grail.
There's nothing similar about their method of evaluation or their backgrounds though. Mills is a intellectual guy who favors a metrics approach. He was a successful businessman and NBA executive. Isiah - I'm not sure how he was evaluating players and he wasn't successful at anything after his playing career.
I'm not so sure Isiah isn't pulling strings currently. Mills is a spineless jellyfish and a yes man to Dolan.
I don't know what you mean by metrics because the build of this team is not pretty.
Like it was said earlier in the topic, Knicks aren't good enough to make the 8 seed in an epicly awful eastern conference and they won't be bad enough to draft a meaningful young player a year from now. Basically the worst position you could be in.
Metrics refers to a statistical, data driven approach. That's Mills approach, not Isiah's. If Isiah was running the team, we'd have given up multiple draft picks by now. I care more about the team building long-term than making the playoffs this year but I think they'll have a 50/50 shot. It depends on what happens at PG. The build of the team being pretty has nothing to do with whether Mills is using a metrics approach since he didn't build this team. He only had one significant acquisition.
Sinix wrote:This helps put the Knicks in the worst position in the NBA.Not talented enough to make the playoffs(even in the east...) and not bad enough to put themselves in position to draft a game changer.
What the hell was the point of getting rid of Phil?
Yes this our comfort zone. Can't win and won't rebuild. Same old Knicks.
We are good at sucking - we've been doing it successfully for two decades now.
Sucks tho be a fan and watch this train wreck repeat itself.
nyknickzingis wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:I guess they want mostly young players but want to win right now. Trading Lee for just a draft pick would mean 1 step backwards now and 2 steps forward later. Maybe if the season doesn't go well they'll trade him by the deadline though.
Bingo.
I think they want to stay competitive for KP's sake. KP's made it clear he does not want to be on a tanking team or a confused state.
If Knicks put out pure tank lineups, not sure KP will sign the extension next summer. Meaning they may want to trade him for a young player and a high lottery draft pick in 2018. KP doesn't even want Melo gone. If you trade Melo, any Melo trade sets you back a few wins. You go from a 30-35 win team to a 25 win team. If they make some other good moves, if KP improves himself and so do some other young players, I could see us stay in the same area we have been the last few years. I don't think there is any circumstance we make the playoffs, unless somehow Frank or Willy or THj are on an all-star level (that we can not reasonably expect).
The smart move was to move him and tank this season. Knicks have ruined any chance of winning a title for the next decade because they didn't. Now they have to appease and when you appease you make short sighted moves for the back of the jeresy instead of the front
Sinix wrote:nyknickzingis wrote:I will give them one compliment.
So far, they've only been willing to go after young players.
If they really wanted to compete in the win now mode, they would have kept Melo.
I think they want to do both be competitive and re-build around a young core of players. Right now that core is Willy, KP, Hardaway and Ntilkina.This is not like spending on veteran stars on decline. We are investing heavily in young players on the rise, which is what we should have been doing for years. I see some differences.
Isiah Thomas spent on young talent as well. Young talent ain't the holy grail.
Its not when you ridiculously overpay. Young players like Crowder for 6 million a year, thats how you win. The Knicks don't get, never will.
meloshouldgo wrote:Sinix wrote:This helps put the Knicks in the worst position in the NBA.Not talented enough to make the playoffs(even in the east...) and not bad enough to put themselves in position to draft a game changer.
What the hell was the point of getting rid of Phil?
Yes this our comfort zone. Can't win and won't rebuild. Same old Knicks.
We are good at sucking - we've been doing it successfully for two decades now.
Sucks tho be a fan and watch this train wreck repeat itself.
we basically need the NBA to save us and have us win the lottery. I think Phil had the right idea about moving Porzingis, he would of had 4 high picks in 2 offseasons. That with Willy would of gave us the core we needed in the perfect time frame. You would then have 3 more offseasons to acquire talent before anyone became a FA. Instead we again cater to a malcontent. He is going to get hurt and its going to be the end
Sinix wrote:This helps put the Knicks in the worst position in the NBA.Not talented enough to make the playoffs(even in the east...) and not bad enough to put themselves in position to draft a game changer.
What the hell was the point of getting rid of Phil?
Phil and the triangle was the butt if all jokes towards the Knicks. The media especially ESPN and the daily news we're having fieldays everyday talking about this. I think the straw that broke the camel's back was the NBA award show. Everybody was cracking jokes, Even Drake. So I think Phil had to step down for that particular reason. Now we don't have to talk about Phil and the triangle everyone can just focus on the Knicks themselves.
As far as Lee, Phil said he wanted to get more players like Lee. So Lee is our standard... Hes what we want our players to be. Were still following Phil's blueprint. The next 2 years are going to be so important continuing thus trend
meloshouldgo wrote:Sinix wrote:This helps put the Knicks in the worst position in the NBA.Not talented enough to make the playoffs(even in the east...) and not bad enough to put themselves in position to draft a game changer.
What the hell was the point of getting rid of Phil?
Yes this our comfort zone. Can't win and won't rebuild. Same old Knicks.
We are good at sucking - we've been doing it successfully for two decades now.
Sucks tho be a fan and watch this train wreck repeat itself.
I get that franchises want to win, want to be competitive. They don't want to lose on purpose.
I'm certainly not advocating a Hinkie-style rebuild - I don't think anyone really is.
But for gods sake! Look at the talent you have on the roster, evaluate where it can be reasonably expected to get you & make a judgement about how your going to improve- not to simply win a few more games, but to be in a position to be a serious championship contender.
I think we're several pieces away. I'm not a professional, but we supposedly have some in our front office.
Somehow, they are under the delusion that we're close to being something we're not- a play off team.
We won 30 games last year. How does adding Tim Hardaway Jr. and taking away Melo change that?
I get Hardway's improved, and Melo was a minus. Is that really worth 10 wins?
This is Dolan Starphuck all over again. Maybe we haven't traded future picks away (YET), but the win now at all costs mentality appears to be back.
