meloshouldgo wrote:They spoke at length about how much the Bargnani trade handcuffed Phil. He had two picks in 4 years and people question why he didn't go into a full rebuild from day 1, those people can't read.Also all the drama around Kristaps was a result mainly from bad coaching and not holding players accountable and especially from locker room toxicity and yet there's at least 200 pages of threads here blaming Phil for it. The one thing Phil did that impacted KP was to sign Rose, but coming out of the prior season everybody from coach, to Melo to fans wanted a speedy penetrating PG, and it's not like they grow on trees.
The NTC and Noah signing were abysmal
Rose for Rolo was bad
Dumping JR and Shump and Tyson were inevitable
Signing Rolo was good
Drafts were good
Non basketball stuff
Culture change never happened, his focus was just system basketball that couldn't possibly happen with Melo
Had no way to hire an experienced GM as a second in command, because Mills was there
Inherited impossible amount of dysfunction but want allowed to clean house
Believed he could change Melo - really stupid thing to believe
Wasn't able to hire any good coaches, but the good coaches around the league had seen MDA's fate and wouldn't touch the Knicks(Melo) if it was the last job on earth -can't blame them
The bolded is a lot of excuse making for phil...He promised a culture change, instead he added to the dysfunction with his poor-people skills, his enormous ego, the dumb mind games with his players, calling players out in press conferences which should have been handled behind the scenes, the tweets, forcing Rambis on both coaching staffs, the half-ass rebuild/win now mode, forcing the triangle on the team and at the same time acquiring non-triangle players, the NTC and last but not least, the losing. All of this added to the dysfunction and phil is to blame....He's not the only blame, he played a major part...
Every single Prez, GM that was hired after Grunfeld and Checketts inherited some type of dysfunction fro Layden to Isiah to Walsh....But phil and his 11 rings promised a change and we know how that turned out....
Phils ego thought he could change Melo, but he should have known better because he said himself that a leopard doesn't change spots...He did a piss-poor job and I'm glad him and his ego and all the side stories he created are gone. He was a major distraction and the Knick story was about everything but basketball with him here. Now, lets move Melo and start over...
Uptown wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:They spoke at length about how much the Bargnani trade handcuffed Phil. He had two picks in 4 years and people question why he didn't go into a full rebuild from day 1, those people can't read.Also all the drama around Kristaps was a result mainly from bad coaching and not holding players accountable and especially from locker room toxicity and yet there's at least 200 pages of threads here blaming Phil for it. The one thing Phil did that impacted KP was to sign Rose, but coming out of the prior season everybody from coach, to Melo to fans wanted a speedy penetrating PG, and it's not like they grow on trees.
The NTC and Noah signing were abysmal
Rose for Rolo was bad
Dumping JR and Shump and Tyson were inevitable
Signing Rolo was good
Drafts were good
Non basketball stuff
Culture change never happened, his focus was just system basketball that couldn't possibly happen with Melo
Had no way to hire an experienced GM as a second in command, because Mills was there
Inherited impossible amount of dysfunction but want allowed to clean house
Believed he could change Melo - really stupid thing to believe
Wasn't able to hire any good coaches, but the good coaches around the league had seen MDA's fate and wouldn't touch the Knicks(Melo) if it was the last job on earth -can't blame them
The bolded is a lot of excuse making for phil...He promised a culture change, instead he added to the dysfunction with his poor-people skills, his enormous ego, the dumb mind games with his players, calling players out in press conferences which should have been handled behind the scenes, the tweets, forcing Rambis on both coaching staffs, the half-ass rebuild/win now mode, forcing the triangle on the team and at the same time acquiring non-triangle players, the NTC and last but not least, the losing. All of this added to the dysfunction and phil is to blame....He's not the only blame, he played a major part...
Every single Prez, GM that was hired after Grunfeld and Checketts inherited some type of dysfunction fro Layden to Isiah to Walsh....But phil and his 11 rings promised a change and we know how that turned out....
Phils ego thought he could change Melo, but he would have known better because he said himself that a leopard doesn't change spots...He did a piss-poor job and I'm glad him and his ego and all the side stories he created are gone. He was a major distraction and the Knick story was about everything but basketball with him here. Now, lets move Melo and start over...
You people are seriously retarded.
Culture change never happened - Sounds like an excuse to you?
Phil was really stupid to think he could change Melo - is an excuse?
Every single GM also promised a change - Phil was the only one that left something for the next guy to build on - how's that for change?
But yeah keep piling on with your Phil hate.
meloshouldgo wrote:CrushAlot wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:They spoke at length about how much the Bargnani trade handcuffed Phil. He had two picks in 4 years and people question why he didn't go into a full rebuild from day 1, those people can't read.Also all the drama around Kristaps was a result mainly from bad coaching and not holding players accountable and especially from locker room toxicity and yet there's at least 200 pages of threads here blaming Phil for it.The one thing Phil did that impacted KP was to sign Rose, but coming out of the prior season everybody from coach, to Melo to fans wanted a speedy penetrating PG, and it's not like they grow on trees.
The NTC and Noah signing were abysmal
Rose for Rolo was bad
Dumping JR and Shump and Tyson were inevitable
Signing Rolo was good
Drafts were good
Non basketball stuff
Culture change never happened, his focus was just system basketball that couldn't possibly happen with Melo
Had no way to hire an experienced GM as a second in command, because Mills was there
Inherited impossible amount of dysfunction but want allowed to clean house
Believed he could change Melo - really stupid thing to believe
Wasn't able to hire any good coaches, but the good coaches around the league had seen MDA's fate and wouldn't touch the Knicks(Melo) if it was the last job on earth -can't blame them
can you clarify the bolded. I knw Begley Sid KP's issues were not mainly with Phil but I don't recall the rest of what you said being discussed. I was doing yard work when I was listening so I might have missed it.
Where did I say this was discussed? Or do you actually expect Begley to discuss page count on UK? Or maybe you are just doing this to be annoying?
So that was your assumptions? That makes more sense because I didn't hear that or think that was implied. Thanks for clarifying.
Uptown wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:They spoke at length about how much the Bargnani trade handcuffed Phil. He had two picks in 4 years and people question why he didn't go into a full rebuild from day 1, those people can't read.Also all the drama around Kristaps was a result mainly from bad coaching and not holding players accountable and especially from locker room toxicity and yet there's at least 200 pages of threads here blaming Phil for it. The one thing Phil did that impacted KP was to sign Rose, but coming out of the prior season everybody from coach, to Melo to fans wanted a speedy penetrating PG, and it's not like they grow on trees.
The NTC and Noah signing were abysmal
Rose for Rolo was bad
Dumping JR and Shump and Tyson were inevitable
Signing Rolo was good
Drafts were good
Non basketball stuff
Culture change never happened, his focus was just system basketball that couldn't possibly happen with Melo
Had no way to hire an experienced GM as a second in command, because Mills was there
Inherited impossible amount of dysfunction but want allowed to clean house
Believed he could change Melo - really stupid thing to believe
Wasn't able to hire any good coaches, but the good coaches around the league had seen MDA's fate and wouldn't touch the Knicks(Melo) if it was the last job on earth -can't blame them
The bolded is a lot of excuse making for phil...He promised a culture change, instead he added to the dysfunction with his poor-people skills, his enormous ego, the dumb mind games with his players, calling players out in press conferences which should have been handled behind the scenes, the tweets, forcing Rambis on both coaching staffs, the half-ass rebuild/win now mode, forcing the triangle on the team and at the same time acquiring non-triangle players, the NTC and last but not least, the losing. All of this added to the dysfunction and phil is to blame....He's not the only blame, he played a major part...
Every single Prez, GM that was hired after Grunfeld and Checketts inherited some type of dysfunction fro Layden to Isiah to Walsh....But phil and his 11 rings promised a change and we know how that turned out....
Phils ego thought he could change Melo, but he should have known better because he said himself that a leopard doesn't change spots...He did a piss-poor job and I'm glad him and his ego and all the side stories he created are gone. He was a major distraction and the Knick story was about everything but basketball with him here. Now, lets move Melo and start over...
Well said. I feel the same way. I was so excited when he was hired with autonomy. I never thought he would suck as bad as he did.
meloshouldgo wrote:Uptown wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:They spoke at length about how much the Bargnani trade handcuffed Phil. He had two picks in 4 years and people question why he didn't go into a full rebuild from day 1, those people can't read.Also all the drama around Kristaps was a result mainly from bad coaching and not holding players accountable and especially from locker room toxicity and yet there's at least 200 pages of threads here blaming Phil for it. The one thing Phil did that impacted KP was to sign Rose, but coming out of the prior season everybody from coach, to Melo to fans wanted a speedy penetrating PG, and it's not like they grow on trees.
The NTC and Noah signing were abysmal
Rose for Rolo was bad
Dumping JR and Shump and Tyson were inevitable
Signing Rolo was good
Drafts were good
Non basketball stuff
Culture change never happened, his focus was just system basketball that couldn't possibly happen with Melo
Had no way to hire an experienced GM as a second in command, because Mills was there
Inherited impossible amount of dysfunction but want allowed to clean house
Believed he could change Melo - really stupid thing to believe
Wasn't able to hire any good coaches, but the good coaches around the league had seen MDA's fate and wouldn't touch the Knicks(Melo) if it was the last job on earth -can't blame them
The bolded is a lot of excuse making for phil...He promised a culture change, instead he added to the dysfunction with his poor-people skills, his enormous ego, the dumb mind games with his players, calling players out in press conferences which should have been handled behind the scenes, the tweets, forcing Rambis on both coaching staffs, the half-ass rebuild/win now mode, forcing the triangle on the team and at the same time acquiring non-triangle players, the NTC and last but not least, the losing. All of this added to the dysfunction and phil is to blame....He's not the only blame, he played a major part...
Every single Prez, GM that was hired after Grunfeld and Checketts inherited some type of dysfunction fro Layden to Isiah to Walsh....But phil and his 11 rings promised a change and we know how that turned out....
Phils ego thought he could change Melo, but he would have known better because he said himself that a leopard doesn't change spots...He did a piss-poor job and I'm glad him and his ego and all the side stories he created are gone. He was a major distraction and the Knick story was about everything but basketball with him here. Now, lets move Melo and start over...
You people are seriously retarded.
Culture change never happened - Sounds like an excuse to you?
Phil was really stupid to think he could change Melo - is an excuse?
Every single GM also promised a change - Phil was the only one that left something for the next guy to build on - how's that for change?
But yeah keep piling on with your Phil hate.
That's what we are doing now?! We call people childish names when we disagree?!
Uptown wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:Uptown wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:They spoke at length about how much the Bargnani trade handcuffed Phil. He had two picks in 4 years and people question why he didn't go into a full rebuild from day 1, those people can't read.Also all the drama around Kristaps was a result mainly from bad coaching and not holding players accountable and especially from locker room toxicity and yet there's at least 200 pages of threads here blaming Phil for it. The one thing Phil did that impacted KP was to sign Rose, but coming out of the prior season everybody from coach, to Melo to fans wanted a speedy penetrating PG, and it's not like they grow on trees.
The NTC and Noah signing were abysmal
Rose for Rolo was bad
Dumping JR and Shump and Tyson were inevitable
Signing Rolo was good
Drafts were good
Non basketball stuff
Culture change never happened, his focus was just system basketball that couldn't possibly happen with Melo
Had no way to hire an experienced GM as a second in command, because Mills was there
Inherited impossible amount of dysfunction but want allowed to clean house
Believed he could change Melo - really stupid thing to believe
Wasn't able to hire any good coaches, but the good coaches around the league had seen MDA's fate and wouldn't touch the Knicks(Melo) if it was the last job on earth -can't blame them
The bolded is a lot of excuse making for phil...He promised a culture change, instead he added to the dysfunction with his poor-people skills, his enormous ego, the dumb mind games with his players, calling players out in press conferences which should have been handled behind the scenes, the tweets, forcing Rambis on both coaching staffs, the half-ass rebuild/win now mode, forcing the triangle on the team and at the same time acquiring non-triangle players, the NTC and last but not least, the losing. All of this added to the dysfunction and phil is to blame....He's not the only blame, he played a major part...
Every single Prez, GM that was hired after Grunfeld and Checketts inherited some type of dysfunction fro Layden to Isiah to Walsh....But phil and his 11 rings promised a change and we know how that turned out....
Phils ego thought he could change Melo, but he would have known better because he said himself that a leopard doesn't change spots...He did a piss-poor job and I'm glad him and his ego and all the side stories he created are gone. He was a major distraction and the Knick story was about everything but basketball with him here. Now, lets move Melo and start over...
You people are seriously retarded.
Culture change never happened - Sounds like an excuse to you?
Phil was really stupid to think he could change Melo - is an excuse?
Every single GM also promised a change - Phil was the only one that left something for the next guy to build on - how's that for change?
But yeah keep piling on with your Phil hate.
That's what we are doing now?! We call people childish names when we disagree?!
No feel free to disagree. And my reaction was over the top, my bad.
CrushAlot wrote:Uptown wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:They spoke at length about how much the Bargnani trade handcuffed Phil. He had two picks in 4 years and people question why he didn't go into a full rebuild from day 1, those people can't read.Also all the drama around Kristaps was a result mainly from bad coaching and not holding players accountable and especially from locker room toxicity and yet there's at least 200 pages of threads here blaming Phil for it. The one thing Phil did that impacted KP was to sign Rose, but coming out of the prior season everybody from coach, to Melo to fans wanted a speedy penetrating PG, and it's not like they grow on trees.
The NTC and Noah signing were abysmal
Rose for Rolo was bad
Dumping JR and Shump and Tyson were inevitable
Signing Rolo was good
Drafts were good
Non basketball stuff
Culture change never happened, his focus was just system basketball that couldn't possibly happen with Melo
Had no way to hire an experienced GM as a second in command, because Mills was there
Inherited impossible amount of dysfunction but want allowed to clean house
Believed he could change Melo - really stupid thing to believe
Wasn't able to hire any good coaches, but the good coaches around the league had seen MDA's fate and wouldn't touch the Knicks(Melo) if it was the last job on earth -can't blame them
The bolded is a lot of excuse making for phil...He promised a culture change, instead he added to the dysfunction with his poor-people skills, his enormous ego, the dumb mind games with his players, calling players out in press conferences which should have been handled behind the scenes, the tweets, forcing Rambis on both coaching staffs, the half-ass rebuild/win now mode, forcing the triangle on the team and at the same time acquiring non-triangle players, the NTC and last but not least, the losing. All of this added to the dysfunction and phil is to blame....He's not the only blame, he played a major part...
Every single Prez, GM that was hired after Grunfeld and Checketts inherited some type of dysfunction fro Layden to Isiah to Walsh....But phil and his 11 rings promised a change and we know how that turned out....
Phils ego thought he could change Melo, but he should have known better because he said himself that a leopard doesn't change spots...He did a piss-poor job and I'm glad him and his ego and all the side stories he created are gone. He was a major distraction and the Knick story was about everything but basketball with him here. Now, lets move Melo and start over...
Well said. I feel the same way. I was so excited when he was hired with autonomy. I never thought he would suck as bad as he did.
I was optimistic when phil was hired...He was an 11 time champion as a coach but I was a bit skeptical because of his age and he never worked in the front office. Also, when the stories came out that Dolan kept throwing money at him until he gave in and took the job. That didn't sound like a person that really wanted to be here. Then the questions about how much time he would spend in NY, etc...I remember when phil criticized the Knick front office from afar, calling our roster clumsy. Then he proceeds to build a clumsy roster...In the end, phil was too polarizing.
I like the fact that when Scott Perry was hired, most everyone said who? Based on the press conference and the interviews after receiving the job, Perry sounds like a guy that's really going to roll up his sleeves and put in the work. He has a great opportunity to turn this around and if he does that, in NY, that would be big time.
Uptown wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Uptown wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:They spoke at length about how much the Bargnani trade handcuffed Phil. He had two picks in 4 years and people question why he didn't go into a full rebuild from day 1, those people can't read.Also all the drama around Kristaps was a result mainly from bad coaching and not holding players accountable and especially from locker room toxicity and yet there's at least 200 pages of threads here blaming Phil for it. The one thing Phil did that impacted KP was to sign Rose, but coming out of the prior season everybody from coach, to Melo to fans wanted a speedy penetrating PG, and it's not like they grow on trees.
The NTC and Noah signing were abysmal
Rose for Rolo was bad
Dumping JR and Shump and Tyson were inevitable
Signing Rolo was good
Drafts were good
Non basketball stuff
Culture change never happened, his focus was just system basketball that couldn't possibly happen with Melo
Had no way to hire an experienced GM as a second in command, because Mills was there
Inherited impossible amount of dysfunction but want allowed to clean house
Believed he could change Melo - really stupid thing to believe
Wasn't able to hire any good coaches, but the good coaches around the league had seen MDA's fate and wouldn't touch the Knicks(Melo) if it was the last job on earth -can't blame them
The bolded is a lot of excuse making for phil...He promised a culture change, instead he added to the dysfunction with his poor-people skills, his enormous ego, the dumb mind games with his players, calling players out in press conferences which should have been handled behind the scenes, the tweets, forcing Rambis on both coaching staffs, the half-ass rebuild/win now mode, forcing the triangle on the team and at the same time acquiring non-triangle players, the NTC and last but not least, the losing. All of this added to the dysfunction and phil is to blame....He's not the only blame, he played a major part...
Every single Prez, GM that was hired after Grunfeld and Checketts inherited some type of dysfunction fro Layden to Isiah to Walsh....But phil and his 11 rings promised a change and we know how that turned out....
Phils ego thought he could change Melo, but he should have known better because he said himself that a leopard doesn't change spots...He did a piss-poor job and I'm glad him and his ego and all the side stories he created are gone. He was a major distraction and the Knick story was about everything but basketball with him here. Now, lets move Melo and start over...
Well said. I feel the same way. I was so excited when he was hired with autonomy. I never thought he would suck as bad as he did.
I was optimistic when phil was hired...He was an 11 time champion as a coach but I was a bit skeptical because of his age and he never worked in the front office. Also, when the stories came out that Dolan kept throwing money at him until he gave in and took the job. That didn't sound like a person that really wanted to be here. Then the questions about how much time he would spend in NY, etc...I remember when phil criticized the Knick front office from afar, calling our roster clumsy. Then he proceeds to build a clumsy roster...In the end, phil was too polarizing.
I like the fact that when Scott Perry was hired, most everyone said who? Based on the press conference and the interviews after receiving the job, Perry sounds like a guy that's really going to roll up his sleeves and put in the work. He has a great opportunity to turn this around and if he does that, in NY, that would be big time.
I agree. If you get the chance listen to Perry's podcast with Woj from when he first got hired by the Kings. It just reinforces that he is a high character guy with good relationships with agents and nba personnel. He talked a lot about building a team that functioned as a team to beat Shaq and Kobe.
CrushAlot wrote:Uptown wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Uptown wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:They spoke at length about how much the Bargnani trade handcuffed Phil. He had two picks in 4 years and people question why he didn't go into a full rebuild from day 1, those people can't read.Also all the drama around Kristaps was a result mainly from bad coaching and not holding players accountable and especially from locker room toxicity and yet there's at least 200 pages of threads here blaming Phil for it. The one thing Phil did that impacted KP was to sign Rose, but coming out of the prior season everybody from coach, to Melo to fans wanted a speedy penetrating PG, and it's not like they grow on trees.
The NTC and Noah signing were abysmal
Rose for Rolo was bad
Dumping JR and Shump and Tyson were inevitable
Signing Rolo was good
Drafts were good
Non basketball stuff
Culture change never happened, his focus was just system basketball that couldn't possibly happen with Melo
Had no way to hire an experienced GM as a second in command, because Mills was there
Inherited impossible amount of dysfunction but want allowed to clean house
Believed he could change Melo - really stupid thing to believe
Wasn't able to hire any good coaches, but the good coaches around the league had seen MDA's fate and wouldn't touch the Knicks(Melo) if it was the last job on earth -can't blame them
The bolded is a lot of excuse making for phil...He promised a culture change, instead he added to the dysfunction with his poor-people skills, his enormous ego, the dumb mind games with his players, calling players out in press conferences which should have been handled behind the scenes, the tweets, forcing Rambis on both coaching staffs, the half-ass rebuild/win now mode, forcing the triangle on the team and at the same time acquiring non-triangle players, the NTC and last but not least, the losing. All of this added to the dysfunction and phil is to blame....He's not the only blame, he played a major part...
Every single Prez, GM that was hired after Grunfeld and Checketts inherited some type of dysfunction fro Layden to Isiah to Walsh....But phil and his 11 rings promised a change and we know how that turned out....
Phils ego thought he could change Melo, but he should have known better because he said himself that a leopard doesn't change spots...He did a piss-poor job and I'm glad him and his ego and all the side stories he created are gone. He was a major distraction and the Knick story was about everything but basketball with him here. Now, lets move Melo and start over...
Well said. I feel the same way. I was so excited when he was hired with autonomy. I never thought he would suck as bad as he did.
I was optimistic when phil was hired...He was an 11 time champion as a coach but I was a bit skeptical because of his age and he never worked in the front office. Also, when the stories came out that Dolan kept throwing money at him until he gave in and took the job. That didn't sound like a person that really wanted to be here. Then the questions about how much time he would spend in NY, etc...I remember when phil criticized the Knick front office from afar, calling our roster clumsy. Then he proceeds to build a clumsy roster...In the end, phil was too polarizing.
I like the fact that when Scott Perry was hired, most everyone said who? Based on the press conference and the interviews after receiving the job, Perry sounds like a guy that's really going to roll up his sleeves and put in the work. He has a great opportunity to turn this around and if he does that, in NY, that would be big time.
I agree. If you get the chance listen to Perry's podcast with Woj from when he first got hired by the Kings. It just reinforces that he is a high character guy with good relationships with agents and nba personnel. He talked a lot about building a team that functioned as a team to beat Shaq and Kobe.
Found it...will give it a listen...Thanks!
