Knicks · Lowe, Beck, Begley talk Knicks (page 1)

I won't be able to listen until later but I always enjoy these guys.

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Interesting podcast. Begley said Frank pick was 100% Phil. He said some in the draft room wanted Smith and some wanted Monk. Also said that Smith's agent wouldnt give the Knicks all of his medical records so there were concerns there. Beck said he was talking to a western conference exec who said he thinks the Knicks are good going with Frank on day 1. All three guys really don't like Bakers deal. Speculation that Mills signed Tim to show Dolan he could do the pres job. A lot of chit chat about Melo and the trade but nothing really new. Still have a bit more to listen to.

CrushAlot wrote:Interesting podcast. Begley said Frank pick was 100% Phil. He said some in the draft room wanted Smith and some wanted Monk. Also said that Smith's agent wouldnt give the Knicks all of his medical records so there were concerns there. Beck said he was talking to a western conference exec who said he thinks the Knicks are good going with Frank on day 1. All three guys really don't like Bakers deal. Speculation that Mills signed Tim to show Dolan he could do the pres job. A lot of chit chat about Melo and the trade but nothing really new. Still have a bit more to listen to.

Yup... this is what I took

Not much we don’t know but here were the highlights:

Ntilikina was a Phil pick, but not contested. Others liked Mitchell, Monk and Smith, but not all medical records were available for Smith and Mitchell and there were some other concerns. End of day Ntilikina was the guy because of defense. Knicks suck at defense every year and they are never getting better until that vastly improves.

In covering the summer league they asked about getting a vet PG. Another team’s exec (they didn’t name) said the Knicks would be fine if they went with Ntilikina on day 1. Despite being young he plays like a vet, under control and will surprise.

The killed Ron Baker’s contract, but strangely shortly after praised the Knicks for developing him in the first place. Also Lance and Galloway as players that got better with the Knicks.

Didn’t kill Hardway’s contract. It was an overpay… but that happens in FA. The timing was strange. Thought is this was a Mills power play to put a stamp on the team and he may not have liked the trade in the first place.

Phil – left the team in ok position. They basically said there are 5 great execs in the league and 5 terrible ones. Phil is in the grey area of the 20 others. He did lose every trade but he was there for 4 drafts, only had 2 #1s and left them with Ntilikina, Willy, Dotson, Baker and KP. Not too shabby.

Melo – talked about his history. Melo is about the money first and foremost. Phil a fool for giving him the NTC in the first place. Tyson and Melo did not get a long at all and that fueled the Dallas trade. Can’t envision him here in the fall

^^^i haven't gotten to the Tyson stuff yet but I suspected as much.

Someone also mentioned that Noah's rehab was going better.

Others liked Mitchell, Monk and Smith, but not all medical records were available for Smith and Mitchell and there were some other concerns.

Never followed Mitchell...was he injured in college?

Strange that they'd withhold certain medical records...though I'd mostly be concerned if the player had a significant past injury.

Would this be intentional?

Could this have been an issue with teams who drafted before the Knicks did? I'm not sure teams who drafted before the Knicks were interested in Smith, though.

Begley at the end of the podcast said KP 's issues with the Knicks weren't really with Phil but with some of the people that are still around after Phil left. He said if things aren't fixed he coud see KP leaving like Monroe did with the Pistons as a free agent. He said if KP goes he thinks Willy goes. He Sid they are a tandem and share the same agent.
Who are the people still around that KP had the issues with?

CrushAlot wrote:Begley at the end of the podcast said KP 's issues with the Knicks weren't really with Phil but with some of the people that are still around after Phil left. He said if things aren't fixed he coud see KP leaving like Monroe did with the Pistons as a free agent. He said if KP goes he thinks Willy goes. He Sid they are a tandem and share the same agent.
Who are the people still around that KP had the issues with?

Rambis???

Are we talking about Phil's people? Who else on the coaching or training staff might KP not like?

WaltLongmire wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Begley at the end of the podcast said KP 's issues with the Knicks weren't really with Phil but with some of the people that are still around after Phil left. He said if things aren't fixed he coud see KP leaving like Monroe did with the Pistons as a free agent. He said if KP goes he thinks Willy goes. He Sid they are a tandem and share the same agent.
Who are the people still around that KP had the issues with?

Rambis???

Are we talking about Phil's people? Who else on the coaching or training staff might KP not like?

That was my first thought. There are only two Phil guys in the organization.

Is jim cleamons still there?

CrushAlot wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Begley at the end of the podcast said KP 's issues with the Knicks weren't really with Phil but with some of the people that are still around after Phil left. He said if things aren't fixed he coud see KP leaving like Monroe did with the Pistons as a free agent. He said if KP goes he thinks Willy goes. He Sid they are a tandem and share the same agent.
Who are the people still around that KP had the issues with?

Rambis???

Are we talking about Phil's people? Who else on the coaching or training staff might KP not like?

That was my first thought. There are only two Phil guys in the organization.

Gaines is only involved with scouting, I would assume, and was one of the people who scouted and liked KP...does he have another role on the team?

CrushAlot wrote:Begley at the end of the podcast said KP 's issues with the Knicks weren't really with Phil but with some of the people that are still around after Phil left. He said if things aren't fixed he coud see KP leaving like Monroe did with the Pistons as a free agent. He said if KP goes he thinks Willy goes. He Sid they are a tandem and share the same agent.
Who are the people still around that KP had the issues with?

yea but that was less a prediction and more a doomsday scenario. I have no doubt Perry was brought in just for this reason. He's a hard worker and guy who looks to develop. We will see but those doomsday scenarios are a LONG way away.

Even in a typical MSG dysfunction what is more likely? Both waiting out for FA? Or both signing max contracts in the same offseason? Knicks are stupid but spending isnt one of their issues.

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Begley at the end of the podcast said KP 's issues with the Knicks weren't really with Phil but with some of the people that are still around after Phil left. He said if things aren't fixed he coud see KP leaving like Monroe did with the Pistons as a free agent. He said if KP goes he thinks Willy goes. He Sid they are a tandem and share the same agent.
Who are the people still around that KP had the issues with?

yea but that was less a prediction and more a doomsday scenario. I have no doubt Perry was brought in just for this reason. He's a hard worker and guy who looks to develop. We will see but those doomsday scenarios are a LONG way away.

Even in a typical MSG dysfunction what is more likely? Both waiting out for FA? Or both signing max contracts in the same offseason? Knicks are stupid but spending isnt one of their issues.

I dont think the players cared for Rambis when he was the interim. I think there were quite a few players that didn't care for him last year. Is it worth bringing the guy back when you are changing things in part to keep KP? I don't think it is.

They spoke at length about how much the Bargnani trade handcuffed Phil. He had two picks in 4 years and people question why he didn't go into a full rebuild from day 1, those people can't read.

Also all the drama around Kristaps was a result mainly from bad coaching and not holding players accountable and especially from locker room toxicity and yet there's at least 200 pages of threads here blaming Phil for it. The one thing Phil did that impacted KP was to sign Rose, but coming out of the prior season everybody from coach, to Melo to fans wanted a speedy penetrating PG, and it's not like they grow on trees.

The NTC and Noah signing were abysmal
Rose for Rolo was bad
Dumping JR and Shump and Tyson were inevitable
Signing Rolo was good
Drafts were good

Non basketball stuff
Culture change never happened, his focus was just system basketball that couldn't possibly happen with Melo
Had no way to hire an experienced GM as a second in command, because Mills was there
Inherited impossible amount of dysfunction but want allowed to clean house
Believed he could change Melo - really stupid thing to believe
Wasn't able to hire any good coaches, but the good coaches around the league had seen MDA's fate and wouldn't touch the Knicks(Melo) if it was the last job on earth -can't blame them

meloshouldgo wrote:They spoke at length about how much the Bargnani trade handcuffed Phil. He had two picks in 4 years and people question why he didn't go into a full rebuild from day 1, those people can't read.

Also all the drama around Kristaps was a result mainly from bad coaching and not holding players accountable and especially from locker room toxicity and yet there's at least 200 pages of threads here blaming Phil for it. The one thing Phil did that impacted KP was to sign Rose, but coming out of the prior season everybody from coach, to Melo to fans wanted a speedy penetrating PG, and it's not like they grow on trees.

The NTC and Noah signing were abysmal
Rose for Rolo was bad
Dumping JR and Shump and Tyson were inevitable
Signing Rolo was good
Drafts were good

Non basketball stuff
Culture change never happened, his focus was just system basketball that couldn't possibly happen with Melo
Had no way to hire an experienced GM as a second in command, because Mills was there
Inherited impossible amount of dysfunction but want allowed to clean house
Believed he could change Melo - really stupid thing to believe
Wasn't able to hire any good coaches, but the good coaches around the league had seen MDA's fate and wouldn't touch the Knicks(Melo) if it was the last job on earth -can't blame them

Been screaming about that first thing for a few months. Not in love with Phil, but look at what he's leaving his successor compared to what he came into.

WaltLongmire wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:They spoke at length about how much the Bargnani trade handcuffed Phil. He had two picks in 4 years and people question why he didn't go into a full rebuild from day 1, those people can't read.

Also all the drama around Kristaps was a result mainly from bad coaching and not holding players accountable and especially from locker room toxicity and yet there's at least 200 pages of threads here blaming Phil for it. The one thing Phil did that impacted KP was to sign Rose, but coming out of the prior season everybody from coach, to Melo to fans wanted a speedy penetrating PG, and it's not like they grow on trees.

The NTC and Noah signing were abysmal
Rose for Rolo was bad
Dumping JR and Shump and Tyson were inevitable
Signing Rolo was good
Drafts were good

Non basketball stuff
Culture change never happened, his focus was just system basketball that couldn't possibly happen with Melo
Had no way to hire an experienced GM as a second in command, because Mills was there
Inherited impossible amount of dysfunction but want allowed to clean house
Believed he could change Melo - really stupid thing to believe
Wasn't able to hire any good coaches, but the good coaches around the league had seen MDA's fate and wouldn't touch the Knicks(Melo) if it was the last job on earth -can't blame them

Been screaming about that first thing for a few months. Not in love with Phil, but look at what he's leaving his successor compared to what he came into.

Exactly. Look I was never a phil fan we know he made bad mistakes. However he had very limited assets. He had no picks for 2014 and 2016 and no bluechip prospects in the organization. I'm not excusing his mistakes but its much harder to build a team right away without picks and good youth

meloshouldgo wrote:They spoke at length about how much the Bargnani trade handcuffed Phil. He had two picks in 4 years and people question why he didn't go into a full rebuild from day 1, those people can't read.

Also all the drama around Kristaps was a result mainly from bad coaching and not holding players accountable and especially from locker room toxicity and yet there's at least 200 pages of threads here blaming Phil for it.The one thing Phil did that impacted KP was to sign Rose, but coming out of the prior season everybody from coach, to Melo to fans wanted a speedy penetrating PG, and it's not like they grow on trees.

The NTC and Noah signing were abysmal
Rose for Rolo was bad
Dumping JR and Shump and Tyson were inevitable
Signing Rolo was good
Drafts were good

Non basketball stuff
Culture change never happened, his focus was just system basketball that couldn't possibly happen with Melo
Had no way to hire an experienced GM as a second in command, because Mills was there
Inherited impossible amount of dysfunction but want allowed to clean house
Believed he could change Melo - really stupid thing to believe
Wasn't able to hire any good coaches, but the good coaches around the league had seen MDA's fate and wouldn't touch the Knicks(Melo) if it was the last job on earth -can't blame them

can you clarify the bolded. I knw Begley Sid KP's issues were not mainly with Phil but I don't recall the rest of what you said being discussed. I was doing yard work when I was listening so I might have missed it.

Also mentioned that Bolden, pick 36 was given up by the Knicks in the Bargs trade. Beck especially seemed to be a big fane of Grunwald as gm.

I really don't like podcasts especially from our beast writers. They speculate and it passes as news to alot of people. Alot of these guys couldn't pick a basketball out of a Line up

CrushAlot wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:They spoke at length about how much the Bargnani trade handcuffed Phil. He had two picks in 4 years and people question why he didn't go into a full rebuild from day 1, those people can't read.

Also all the drama around Kristaps was a result mainly from bad coaching and not holding players accountable and especially from locker room toxicity and yet there's at least 200 pages of threads here blaming Phil for it.The one thing Phil did that impacted KP was to sign Rose, but coming out of the prior season everybody from coach, to Melo to fans wanted a speedy penetrating PG, and it's not like they grow on trees.

The NTC and Noah signing were abysmal
Rose for Rolo was bad
Dumping JR and Shump and Tyson were inevitable
Signing Rolo was good
Drafts were good

Non basketball stuff
Culture change never happened, his focus was just system basketball that couldn't possibly happen with Melo
Had no way to hire an experienced GM as a second in command, because Mills was there
Inherited impossible amount of dysfunction but want allowed to clean house
Believed he could change Melo - really stupid thing to believe
Wasn't able to hire any good coaches, but the good coaches around the league had seen MDA's fate and wouldn't touch the Knicks(Melo) if it was the last job on earth -can't blame them

can you clarify the bolded. I knw Begley Sid KP's issues were not mainly with Phil but I don't recall the rest of what you said being discussed. I was doing yard work when I was listening so I might have missed it.

Where did I say this was discussed? Or do you actually expect Begley to discuss page count on UK? Or maybe you are just doing this to be annoying?

meloshouldgo wrote:They spoke at length about how much the Bargnani trade handcuffed Phil. He had two picks in 4 years and people question why he didn't go into a full rebuild from day 1, those people can't read.

Also all the drama around Kristaps was a result mainly from bad coaching and not holding players accountable and especially from locker room toxicity and yet there's at least 200 pages of threads here blaming Phil for it. The one thing Phil did that impacted KP was to sign Rose, but coming out of the prior season everybody from coach, to Melo to fans wanted a speedy penetrating PG, and it's not like they grow on trees.

The NTC and Noah signing were abysmal
Rose for Rolo was bad
Dumping JR and Shump and Tyson were inevitable
Signing Rolo was good
Drafts were good

Non basketball stuff
Culture change never happened, his focus was just system basketball that couldn't possibly happen with Melo
Had no way to hire an experienced GM as a second in command, because Mills was there
Inherited impossible amount of dysfunction but want allowed to clean house
Believed he could change Melo - really stupid thing to believe
Wasn't able to hire any good coaches, but the good coaches around the league had seen MDA's fate and wouldn't touch the Knicks(Melo) if it was the last job on earth -can't blame them

The bolded is a lot of excuse making for phil...He promised a culture change, instead he added to the dysfunction with his poor-people skills, his enormous ego, the dumb mind games with his players, calling players out in press conferences which should have been handled behind the scenes, the tweets, forcing Rambis on both coaching staffs, the half-ass rebuild/win now mode, forcing the triangle on the team and at the same time acquiring non-triangle players, the NTC and last but not least, the losing. All of this added to the dysfunction and phil is to blame....He's not the only blame, he played a major part...

Every single Prez, GM that was hired after Grunfeld and Checketts inherited some type of dysfunction fro Layden to Isiah to Walsh....But phil and his 11 rings promised a change and we know how that turned out....

Phils ego thought he could change Melo, but he should have known better because he said himself that a leopard doesn't change spots...He did a piss-poor job and I'm glad him and his ego and all the side stories he created are gone. He was a major distraction and the Knick story was about everything but basketball with him here. Now, lets move Melo and start over...