Off Topic · Off Topic: six months later, do people who voted for Trump still support this guy? (page 45)

newyorknewyork @ 9/28/2017 1:31 AM
arkrud wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
arkrud wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
nyk4ever wrote:To me, I think this is the bigger issue that our country faces, not just kneeling in protest of police brutality, but giving slot of these kids in poor neighborhoods a better normal. Whether it's folks growing up in a trailer park or in the inner cities (and this isn't just limited to black and white, but that's predominantly what anyone wants to talk about) it always comes down to parenting and I'm sorry but I think when you look at the issues in the inner cities with kids growing up without fathers, or no parents at all, it doesn't even give most of these kids a chance to begin with.

I don't think many people would disagree with that sentiment. I think a way to maybe look at it some people don't one what's occurring between police and black youths as being a part of anyone's normal.

This is more of an epidemic than the police issues to me. These kids need a better start in life and it begins with their parents.

Which began with their parents, and their parents, and their parents, of course. Be wary of anyone who refuses to acknowledge historical factors in this discussion. It's the height of ignorance to try to remove it from the equation.

If the "solution" to this problem is for a singular generation who grew up and exist in this environment to just change their culture overnight, then the ignorant people proposing this are so ignorant they don't realize they've discovered the solution to every problem ever.

Opioid crisis: Just be better.

Insurance fraud and white-collar crime that takes money out of all of our pockets: Just be better.

Domestic violence: Just be better.

Child abuse: Just be better.

There's no problem that can't and shouldn't be solved the same way that some idiots think people from historically poor communities should just take responsibility for themselves and take advantage of the opportunity this great country provides anyone.

There is always the culture loop to fall on.

African Americans need to emphasize parenting and education more. Okay so why don't they? Because of the culture. Okay so why is the culture the way it is? Because African Americans need to emphasize parenting and education more.

Freedom of choice does not mean the right choices will be made.
And the choices which be made defined what this people life will be.
If culture is the downward spiral it is bound to disappear.
The history is not kind to anyone - at the end every culture get what it deserved.
Cultures which breed violence and hatred depopulate and disappear, cultures which collect and protect intellectual and moral wealth persevere and last forever.
Nothing is new under the sun.

Directly post slavery. There was no black on black gang drug violence. There was no hip hop. This culture was not established yet. You believe that African Americans have developed this culture due to their own poor choices?

People were moved from tribal culture into modern (at a time) society and were isolated and used as slaves.
It was no way any kind of culture can be established for this people.
Then some generations later they were freed but segregated from mainstream local culture.
This forced some unique cultural traits to develop as a mix of old tribal culture and some elements picked up from slave-owners society.
Obviously it was no time to establish anything structured so the mix of original African Voodoo and Christianity took over as religious concepts are designed to occupy easily any empty cultural space.
Then when segregation was over the pressure of mainstream American culture falls like a hummer as American culture itself is a mix of multiple cultures brought from all over the world.
The only way to be a part of American culture is to melt into it, especially if some group has no string original culture to hold on too.
AA is what America is when original cultural values of the people are lost or weak. They are the mirror America is looking into. So do not blame the mirror if it shows sometimes you find ugly.
Rather be grateful when it shows beautiful things.

In a typical response. Zero accountability voiced while claiming African Americans to be primitive to justify 2nd class citizen treatment. During segregation African Americans were forced to support themselves. In doing so.

In 1865, just after Emancipation, 476,748 free Blacks — 1.5 percent of U.S. population– owned a .005 percent of the total wealth of the United States. Today, a full 135 years after the abolition of slavery, 44.5 million Black Americans — 14.2 percent of the population — possess a meager 1 percent of the national wealth.

This doesn't line up with your timeline of primitive African American evolution.

From 1890 to 1950, Black women married at higher rates than white women, despite a consistent shortage of Black males due to their higher mortality rate.

The mortality rate wasn't due to black on black crime.

In 1965, only 8 percent of childbirths in the Black community occurred out of wedlock. In 2010, that figure was 41 percent;

This also doesn't line up with your timeline of primitive African American evolution.

In 1954, white men had a zero percent unemployment rate, while African-American men experienced about a 4 percent rate. By 2010, it was at 16.7 percent for Black men compared to 7.7 percent for white men.

Many Black men were also dislodged from their families and pushed into the rapidly expanding prison industrial complex that developed in the wake of rising unemployment.

When you say pressure of "mainstream American culture" do you mean extreme racism, prejudice, oppression?

During segregation with a smaller population. There was a higher rate black business owners then there are today. Strictly due to AAs having to depend on themselves in order to survive. Not bad for those primitive beings. During integration AAs flocked to support white owned businesses happy to be viewed as equal. The difference is whites didn't flock to black own businesses in unison. White owned businesses added new revenue that they weren't receiving during segregation. While blacks lost almost all revenue from lack of support from anyone.

Then there is.
The business practices of redlining, mortgage discrimination, and racially restrictive covenants contributed to the overcrowding and physical deterioration of areas where minorities chose to congregate. Such conditions are considered to have contributed to the emigration of other populations. The limited facilities for banking and insurance, due to a perceived lack of profitability, and other social services, and extra fees meant to hedge against perceived profit issues increased their cost to residents in predominantly non-white suburbs and city neighborhoods.[15][16] According to the environmental geographer Laura Pulido, the historical processes of suburbanization and urban decentralization contribute to contemporary environmental racism.[17]

Do we chalk this up to pressure of American culutre as well?

gunsnewing @ 9/28/2017 1:42 AM
After bringing back the draft you might be able to cut the fat around police departments. Raise their standards leading to less police douchebaggery against citizens
nixluva @ 9/28/2017 1:51 AM
newyorknewyork wrote:
arkrud wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
arkrud wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
nyk4ever wrote:To me, I think this is the bigger issue that our country faces, not just kneeling in protest of police brutality, but giving slot of these kids in poor neighborhoods a better normal. Whether it's folks growing up in a trailer park or in the inner cities (and this isn't just limited to black and white, but that's predominantly what anyone wants to talk about) it always comes down to parenting and I'm sorry but I think when you look at the issues in the inner cities with kids growing up without fathers, or no parents at all, it doesn't even give most of these kids a chance to begin with.

I don't think many people would disagree with that sentiment. I think a way to maybe look at it some people don't one what's occurring between police and black youths as being a part of anyone's normal.

This is more of an epidemic than the police issues to me. These kids need a better start in life and it begins with their parents.

Which began with their parents, and their parents, and their parents, of course. Be wary of anyone who refuses to acknowledge historical factors in this discussion. It's the height of ignorance to try to remove it from the equation.

If the "solution" to this problem is for a singular generation who grew up and exist in this environment to just change their culture overnight, then the ignorant people proposing this are so ignorant they don't realize they've discovered the solution to every problem ever.

Opioid crisis: Just be better.

Insurance fraud and white-collar crime that takes money out of all of our pockets: Just be better.

Domestic violence: Just be better.

Child abuse: Just be better.

There's no problem that can't and shouldn't be solved the same way that some idiots think people from historically poor communities should just take responsibility for themselves and take advantage of the opportunity this great country provides anyone.

There is always the culture loop to fall on.

African Americans need to emphasize parenting and education more. Okay so why don't they? Because of the culture. Okay so why is the culture the way it is? Because African Americans need to emphasize parenting and education more.

Freedom of choice does not mean the right choices will be made.
And the choices which be made defined what this people life will be.
If culture is the downward spiral it is bound to disappear.
The history is not kind to anyone - at the end every culture get what it deserved.
Cultures which breed violence and hatred depopulate and disappear, cultures which collect and protect intellectual and moral wealth persevere and last forever.
Nothing is new under the sun.

Directly post slavery. There was no black on black gang drug violence. There was no hip hop. This culture was not established yet. You believe that African Americans have developed this culture due to their own poor choices?

People were moved from tribal culture into modern (at a time) society and were isolated and used as slaves.
It was no way any kind of culture can be established for this people.
Then some generations later they were freed but segregated from mainstream local culture.
This forced some unique cultural traits to develop as a mix of old tribal culture and some elements picked up from slave-owners society.
Obviously it was no time to establish anything structured so the mix of original African Voodoo and Christianity took over as religious concepts are designed to occupy easily any empty cultural space.
Then when segregation was over the pressure of mainstream American culture falls like a hummer as American culture itself is a mix of multiple cultures brought from all over the world.
The only way to be a part of American culture is to melt into it, especially if some group has no string original culture to hold on too.
AA is what America is when original cultural values of the people are lost or weak. They are the mirror America is looking into. So do not blame the mirror if it shows sometimes you find ugly.
Rather be grateful when it shows beautiful things.

In a typical response. Zero accountability voiced while claiming African Americans to be primitive to justify 2nd class citizen treatment. During segregation African Americans were forced to support themselves. In doing so.

In 1865, just after Emancipation, 476,748 free Blacks — 1.5 percent of U.S. population– owned a .005 percent of the total wealth of the United States. Today, a full 135 years after the abolition of slavery, 44.5 million Black Americans — 14.2 percent of the population — possess a meager 1 percent of the national wealth.

This doesn't line up with your timeline of primitive African American evolution.

From 1890 to 1950, Black women married at higher rates than white women, despite a consistent shortage of Black males due to their higher mortality rate.

The mortality rate wasn't due to black on black crime.

In 1965, only 8 percent of childbirths in the Black community occurred out of wedlock. In 2010, that figure was 41 percent;

This also doesn't line up with your timeline of primitive African American evolution.

In 1954, white men had a zero percent unemployment rate, while African-American men experienced about a 4 percent rate. By 2010, it was at 16.7 percent for Black men compared to 7.7 percent for white men.

Many Black men were also dislodged from their families and pushed into the rapidly expanding prison industrial complex that developed in the wake of rising unemployment.

When you say pressure of "mainstream American culture" do you mean extreme racism, prejudice, oppression?

During segregation with a smaller population. There was a higher rate black business owners then there are today. Strictly due to AAs having to depend on themselves in order to survive. Not bad for those primitive beings. During integration AAs flocked to support white owned businesses happy to be viewed as equal. The difference is whites didn't flock to black own businesses in unison. White owned businesses added new revenue that they weren't receiving during segregation. While blacks lost almost all revenue from lack of support from anyone.

Then there is.
The business practices of redlining, mortgage discrimination, and racially restrictive covenants contributed to the overcrowding and physical deterioration of areas where minorities chose to congregate. Such conditions are considered to have contributed to the emigration of other populations. The limited facilities for banking and insurance, due to a perceived lack of profitability, and other social services, and extra fees meant to hedge against perceived profit issues increased their cost to residents in predominantly non-white suburbs and city neighborhoods.[15][16] According to the environmental geographer Laura Pulido, the historical processes of suburbanization and urban decentralization contribute to contemporary environmental racism.[17]

Do we chalk this up to pressure of American culutre as well?

BRAVO 👏🏾

nixluva @ 9/28/2017 1:51 AM
NumberTwoPencil @ 9/28/2017 2:02 AM
One thing that has surprised me about the NFL protests is: Wow, there are many more articulate football players than I imagined. I don't follow football closely and while, okay, once in a while I notice an articulate voice, I usually I hit the next button on the remote as as soon as a football player starts talking. (Basketball, well, basketball's different. Guys like Pops, Kerr, Jackson, Iguodala, even Iverson, strike me as way, way more insightful and articulate than your average bear.)

The NFL protests, however, have brought out a lot of thoughtful voices and one after another players who I didn't expect to be able to put two words together have been great. Michael Bennett and Doug Baldwin on this evening's CNN Anderson Cooper Town Hall thing, for example, made their cases in clear, moving, and direct fashion. Also, Eric Reid's piece in the NY Times is very good: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/25/opinion/colin-kaepernick-football-protests.html.

Maybe it's just that Trump has set the bar so low, maybe, but I haven't heard any players/coaches sink anywhere near as low as Trump and, in fact, pretty much all of the players I've heard have been great. It's clear that more than a few players have been thinking about the issues surrounding police violence and racism and they care enough to educate themselves and speak about it in public. Cool. I wasn't expecting anything good to come of Trump vs. the NFL but simply having this many more people speaking up is hopeful. IMO. I might even watch an NFL game or two this fall :)

nixluva @ 9/28/2017 12:26 PM
djsunyc @ 9/28/2017 1:35 PM
nixluva @ 9/28/2017 1:41 PM
nixluva @ 9/28/2017 2:23 PM
nixluva @ 9/28/2017 2:28 PM
nixluva @ 9/28/2017 4:26 PM
nixluva @ 9/28/2017 7:07 PM
nixluva @ 9/28/2017 7:21 PM
nixluva @ 9/28/2017 7:43 PM
nixluva @ 9/28/2017 9:27 PM
nixluva @ 9/28/2017 9:44 PM
nixluva @ 9/28/2017 9:49 PM
BRIGGS @ 9/28/2017 10:34 PM
nixluva wrote:

Nixluva--Im sure when you or I pass along--we'd like our kids/wife to get our belongings without the government taking 40% like they do now?

Also there is no good tax plan where everyone doesn't get a benefit. Where this plan helps is it puts more money in the pockets of those families earning less than 70k. Dont you think that someone making 68k a year with a wife and two children could use an additional 1400$? And then save another 200-400 on tax preparation each year?

Try reading the whole gig

BRIGGS @ 9/28/2017 10:44 PM
nixluva wrote:

Puerto Rico was a dangling disaster of its own mismanagement. The island sled into deep financial despair through mismanagement and their infrastructure was crumbling and dated. They had ten+ days to bring in as much water and food that they could--they ran behind on it. We cant be selective and say the government did a sht job in Puerto Rico--yet say nothing about the great job we did in Florida and Texas? Thats hypocrisy right? Puerto Rico is a nightmare and it was ravaged by a 100 year storm--at the end of the day I think the US has given its all through 3 massive disasters--to try and hold people accountable for Puerto Rico is insane--no one caused the hurricane or the absolute logistical nightmare. The whole country needs to be rebuilt anyway--while there is some short term suffering--it may end up in their best benefit long term.

nixluva @ 9/28/2017 11:17 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
nixluva wrote:

Nixluva--Im sure when you or I pass along--we'd like our kids/wife to get our belongings without the government taking 40% like they do now?

Also there is no good tax plan where everyone doesn't get a benefit. Where this plan helps is it puts more money in the pockets of those families earning less than 70k. Dont you think that someone making 68k a year with a wife and two children could use an additional 1400$? And then save another 200-400 on tax preparation each year?

Try reading the whole gig

PLEASE!!! This Tax Cut like most every Republican pushed Tax Cut is really ALL ABOUT the Rich and big biz!!! Just cuz you bought their BS doesn't make it true!

BRIGGS @ 9/28/2017 11:23 PM
nixluva wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
nixluva wrote:

Nixluva--Im sure when you or I pass along--we'd like our kids/wife to get our belongings without the government taking 40% like they do now?

Also there is no good tax plan where everyone doesn't get a benefit. Where this plan helps is it puts more money in the pockets of those families earning less than 70k. Dont you think that someone making 68k a year with a wife and two children could use an additional 1400$? And then save another 200-400 on tax preparation each year?

Try reading the whole gig

PLEASE!!! This Tax Cut like most every Republican pushed Tax Cut is really ALL ABOUT the Rich and big biz!!! Just cuz you bought their BS doesn't make it true!

I guess you can't you don't have a common understanding of economics or simple math?

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