Knicks · Any trade involving Melo to Rockets needs to include Capela (page 2)
Sinix wrote:again the bold. Your just wrong. 42% of his shots made last year were catch and shoot. That was with the Knicks PGs. Playing with Harden/CP3 doesnt impact that? Dude just stop typing. Your making shit up.fishmike wrote:Sinix wrote:75% of Melo's 3s are assisted. 1/3 of his 2s are assisted. A HUGE part of Melo's offense is catch and shoot, and probably his best. The bold above and suggesting that playing Harden/CP3 doesnt make Melo better is clear evidence you have no clue what your talking about. Not that we really needed it.. but feel free to take a look at Melo's Olympics. He's played 80+ games for team USA. Thats a whole NBA season worth of data where we see that Melo is one of the best catch and shoot players. Like ever.fishmike wrote:Sinix wrote:Melo doesn't improve the Rockets much. The ball needs to be in Harden/CP3s hands and Melo isn't a catch and shoot player. He's an Iso guy.Do you even watch basketball?Melo's lack of defense and ball movement could actually make them worse. So Houston can afford to be careful with a Melo trade. Think the Super Lakers fit with Dwight and Nash.
Yeah I actually made an argument. I get the feel all you do is plug Melo's PPG into houstons stats.
In 2017 Melo had the 3rd most iso plays per game in the NBA despite not being very efficient. This is something his coaches have gotten on him about that he is not going to change as he will turn 34 years old this upcoming season.
Yet he has no interest in playing a catch and shoot game.
What do you think Mike D, Karl and Phil had problems with Melo about. I'll save the mystery because we have a direct quote:
"He can play that role that Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant played," Jackson said. "That's a perfect spot for him, to be in that isolated position on the weak side. Because it's an overload offense and there's a weak-side man that always has an advantage if the ball is swung.
"Carmelo, a lot of times, wants to hold the ball longer than -- we have a rule, if you hold a pass two seconds, you benefit the defense. So he has a little bit of a tendency to hold the ball for three, four, five seconds, then everybody comes to a stop. That is one of the things we work with. But he has adjusted to it, he knows what it can do and he's willing to see its success."This isn't the Olympics where the talent discrepancy is gigantic. It's a different game.
fishmike wrote:Sinix wrote:again the bold. Your just wrong. 42% of his shots made last year were catch and shoot. That was with the Knicks PGs. Playing with Harden/CP3 doesnt impact that? Dude just stop typing. Your making shit up.fishmike wrote:Sinix wrote:75% of Melo's 3s are assisted. 1/3 of his 2s are assisted. A HUGE part of Melo's offense is catch and shoot, and probably his best. The bold above and suggesting that playing Harden/CP3 doesnt make Melo better is clear evidence you have no clue what your talking about. Not that we really needed it.. but feel free to take a look at Melo's Olympics. He's played 80+ games for team USA. Thats a whole NBA season worth of data where we see that Melo is one of the best catch and shoot players. Like ever.fishmike wrote:Sinix wrote:Melo doesn't improve the Rockets much. The ball needs to be in Harden/CP3s hands and Melo isn't a catch and shoot player. He's an Iso guy.Do you even watch basketball?Melo's lack of defense and ball movement could actually make them worse. So Houston can afford to be careful with a Melo trade. Think the Super Lakers fit with Dwight and Nash.
Yeah I actually made an argument. I get the feel all you do is plug Melo's PPG into houstons stats.
In 2017 Melo had the 3rd most iso plays per game in the NBA despite not being very efficient. This is something his coaches have gotten on him about that he is not going to change as he will turn 34 years old this upcoming season.
Yet he has no interest in playing a catch and shoot game.
What do you think Mike D, Karl and Phil had problems with Melo about. I'll save the mystery because we have a direct quote:
"He can play that role that Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant played," Jackson said. "That's a perfect spot for him, to be in that isolated position on the weak side. Because it's an overload offense and there's a weak-side man that always has an advantage if the ball is swung.
"Carmelo, a lot of times, wants to hold the ball longer than -- we have a rule, if you hold a pass two seconds, you benefit the defense. So he has a little bit of a tendency to hold the ball for three, four, five seconds, then everybody comes to a stop. That is one of the things we work with. But he has adjusted to it, he knows what it can do and he's willing to see its success."This isn't the Olympics where the talent discrepancy is gigantic. It's a different game.
If Carmelo were an effective catch and shoot player, Phil Jackson would still be here.
Carmelo Anthony had the 3rd most Iso plays per game last season. James Harden was #1 by a good margin. Then you have Chris Paul who needs the ball to be in his hands to be most effective. If you don't get the point by now, you'll see if they actually team up.
Bonn1997 wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:TLover wrote:Clint Capela is the perfect compliment to KP (sorry Willy). He is a rebounding defensive presence at 23yrs old.. I know he's a big part of what Houston does but oh well if you want Melo we need this dude back plus an unprotected 1st rounder. Even if we have to keep Ryan Anderson for a little while.
Heck we can have Willy & Ryan Anderson backing up Clint & KP.. not bad at all.I would take on R.Anderson and his contract easily if we could get Capela and a 1st round pick with him but Capela means too much to Houston for them to include him in the trade IMO.
How many minutes is Capela going to play here? He'll take most of Willy's minutes? Does Noah become a $70 mil backup backup center? Or is he the backup center and Willy gets DNPs? And we haven't even gotten to KOQ. It just doesn't make sense.
KOQ would most likely have to be included in the Houston deal and Capela would be trade bait at the deadline. He could help a good team greatly as a big man who can defend and rebound.
newyorker4ever wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:TLover wrote:Clint Capela is the perfect compliment to KP (sorry Willy). He is a rebounding defensive presence at 23yrs old.. I know he's a big part of what Houston does but oh well if you want Melo we need this dude back plus an unprotected 1st rounder. Even if we have to keep Ryan Anderson for a little while.
Heck we can have Willy & Ryan Anderson backing up Clint & KP.. not bad at all.I would take on R.Anderson and his contract easily if we could get Capela and a 1st round pick with him but Capela means too much to Houston for them to include him in the trade IMO.
How many minutes is Capela going to play here? He'll take most of Willy's minutes? Does Noah become a $70 mil backup backup center? Or is he the backup center and Willy gets DNPs? And we haven't even gotten to KOQ. It just doesn't make sense.KOQ would most likely have to be included in the Houston deal and Capela would be trade bait at the deadline. He could help a good team greatly as a big man who can defend and rebound.
If he's just trade bait, why not save time and make this a 3 team deal where Capela goes somewhere else (possibly as an incentive to take Anderson's contract)? I'm not really a fan of the idea of trading for a player just to trade him.
If I'm the knicks that's my take it or leave it offer
fitzfarm wrote:A trade of Gordon,ariza,capela and the rights to llull works strait up for meloIf I'm the knicks that's my take it or leave it offer
So long as the Knicks are prepared to either buyout Melo or play him when the season starts, that's fine.
Understand I'm not advocating they settle for less, but that is effectively a non-starter. It is not a strategy to actually receive those players in return, which will not occur.
newyorknewyork wrote:IMO Capela is very replaceable for MDA and his system. A defensive athletic finisher can be found and had and boosted by MDA's system. They signed Tarik Black who will serve the same role and could step up if given the same opportunity within that role as he fits that mold.
By this logic, Capela shouldn't have much value, if he's simply an easily-replaceable product of a system.
Bonn1997 wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:newyorker4ever wrote:TLover wrote:Clint Capela is the perfect compliment to KP (sorry Willy). He is a rebounding defensive presence at 23yrs old.. I know he's a big part of what Houston does but oh well if you want Melo we need this dude back plus an unprotected 1st rounder. Even if we have to keep Ryan Anderson for a little while.
Heck we can have Willy & Ryan Anderson backing up Clint & KP.. not bad at all.I would take on R.Anderson and his contract easily if we could get Capela and a 1st round pick with him but Capela means too much to Houston for them to include him in the trade IMO.
How many minutes is Capela going to play here? He'll take most of Willy's minutes? Does Noah become a $70 mil backup backup center? Or is he the backup center and Willy gets DNPs? And we haven't even gotten to KOQ. It just doesn't make sense.KOQ would most likely have to be included in the Houston deal and Capela would be trade bait at the deadline. He could help a good team greatly as a big man who can defend and rebound.
If he's just trade bait, why not save time and make this a 3 team deal where Capela goes somewhere else (possibly as an incentive to take Anderson's contract)? I'm not really a fan of the idea of trading for a player just to trade him.
Trade has to and will be made. Obviously a fan of Melo's but at this point if the Knicks don't trade him, I will lose all respect for Perry. Already lost it for Mills. You just can't bring back a player who the organization has stated "No longer fits.tje teams plans", have actively been trying to trade, and whom has said is no longer interested in coming back. Bringing him back is just making a botched up situation even worse. It's already past the point of "What is best package we can get" point. Phil could have done things differently but he did not. That's all in the past. Now it's about moving forward and letting Melo move on to his next chapter. As lomg as we dont get another weighted contract, you have to take anything offered. And if that does happen, you have to take Anderson. Who I don't like, . It will be the cost of moving on from Knicks management mishandling a player. Both in the press and by giving him a NTC. Good thing they learned their lesson. Oh wait...Hardaway. Smh.
HofstraBBall wrote:As lomg as we dont get another weighted contract, you have to take anything offered. And if that does happen, you have to take Anderson. Who I don't like, . It will be the cost of moving on from Knicks management mishandling a player. Both in the press and by giving him a NTC.
Why is Anderson in 2019-2020 better than a release/buyout?
Sinix wrote:fishmike wrote:Sinix wrote:again the bold. Your just wrong. 42% of his shots made last year were catch and shoot. That was with the Knicks PGs. Playing with Harden/CP3 doesnt impact that? Dude just stop typing. Your making shit up.fishmike wrote:Sinix wrote:75% of Melo's 3s are assisted. 1/3 of his 2s are assisted. A HUGE part of Melo's offense is catch and shoot, and probably his best. The bold above and suggesting that playing Harden/CP3 doesnt make Melo better is clear evidence you have no clue what your talking about. Not that we really needed it.. but feel free to take a look at Melo's Olympics. He's played 80+ games for team USA. Thats a whole NBA season worth of data where we see that Melo is one of the best catch and shoot players. Like ever.fishmike wrote:Sinix wrote:Melo doesn't improve the Rockets much. The ball needs to be in Harden/CP3s hands and Melo isn't a catch and shoot player. He's an Iso guy.Do you even watch basketball?Melo's lack of defense and ball movement could actually make them worse. So Houston can afford to be careful with a Melo trade. Think the Super Lakers fit with Dwight and Nash.
Yeah I actually made an argument. I get the feel all you do is plug Melo's PPG into houstons stats.
In 2017 Melo had the 3rd most iso plays per game in the NBA despite not being very efficient. This is something his coaches have gotten on him about that he is not going to change as he will turn 34 years old this upcoming season.
Yet he has no interest in playing a catch and shoot game.
What do you think Mike D, Karl and Phil had problems with Melo about. I'll save the mystery because we have a direct quote:
"He can play that role that Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant played," Jackson said. "That's a perfect spot for him, to be in that isolated position on the weak side. Because it's an overload offense and there's a weak-side man that always has an advantage if the ball is swung.
"Carmelo, a lot of times, wants to hold the ball longer than -- we have a rule, if you hold a pass two seconds, you benefit the defense. So he has a little bit of a tendency to hold the ball for three, four, five seconds, then everybody comes to a stop. That is one of the things we work with. But he has adjusted to it, he knows what it can do and he's willing to see its success."This isn't the Olympics where the talent discrepancy is gigantic. It's a different game.
If Carmelo were an effective catch and shoot player, Phil Jackson would still be here.
Carmelo Anthony had the 3rd most Iso plays per game last season. James Harden was #1 by a good margin. Then you have Chris Paul who needs the ball to be in his hands to be most effective. If you don't get the point by now, you'll see if they actually team up.
You obviously have never played organized basketball. Except for Playstation.
Question: What does a PF need to have a high percentage of catch and shoot shot attempts??
Answer: A good PG.
I'll wait for the luxurious list of PG's he has played with here in MY.
Hint: An aging Kidd was the last, and what did we do?
Btw, Does holding the ball too long include the ten times a game where no other player could create a shot and just handed the ball over to Melo with 6 or 7 seconds left in the clock? Here is an example:
Knickoftime wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:IMO Capela is very replaceable for MDA and his system. A defensive athletic finisher can be found and had and boosted by MDA's system. They signed Tarik Black who will serve the same role and could step up if given the same opportunity within that role as he fits that mold.By this logic, Capela shouldn't have much value, if he's simply an easily-replaceable product of a system.
Morey wouldn't be fulfilling his GM duties though if he was willing to give away Capela so easily even if it was the case.
newyorknewyork wrote:Knickoftime wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:IMO Capela is very replaceable for MDA and his system. A defensive athletic finisher can be found and had and boosted by MDA's system. They signed Tarik Black who will serve the same role and could step up if given the same opportunity within that role as he fits that mold.By this logic, Capela shouldn't have much value, if he's simply an easily-replaceable product of a system.
Morey wouldn't be fulfilling his GM duties though if he was willing to give away Capela so easily even if it was the case.
Indeed.
But it still suggests his value in negligible.
Knickoftime wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Knickoftime wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:IMO Capela is very replaceable for MDA and his system. A defensive athletic finisher can be found and had and boosted by MDA's system. They signed Tarik Black who will serve the same role and could step up if given the same opportunity within that role as he fits that mold.By this logic, Capela shouldn't have much value, if he's simply an easily-replaceable product of a system.
Morey wouldn't be fulfilling his GM duties though if he was willing to give away Capela so easily even if it was the case.
Indeed.
But it still suggests his value in negligible.
It depends. If they can use him to upgrade other positions then I think they should go for it. I think they can find players who does what he does easier then finding other pieces. He isn't a dominant rebounder or shot blocker. He is a horrible ft shooter and shooter in general. His 65 fg% and 63 ts% are mostly due to dunks that were created by Harden's playmaking and put backs.
He is a good athletic defensive player who MDA maximizes his offensive contributions by getting him dunks off the PNR.
If they do trade him to us, does it lower our draft picks that we get back?
We likely would then also have to send back Willy Herm in a "realistic" trade
Like it or not, we are selling CA at 50 cents to the dolla, we have to realize that with all the drama the Knicks have had with CA the past seasons and our "youth" movement...
It would cause drama and kill chemistry if he stays, it isnt the first time he has done it
Getting Dantoni out, getting Lin out, getting Phil Jackson out, then NOT wanting a trade till Phil Jackson "lossed" the battle with CA, this is just in New York
RonRon wrote:Like it or not, we are selling CA at 50 cents to the dolla, we have to realize that with all the drama the Knicks have had with CA the past seasons and our "youth" movement...
It would cause drama and kill chemistry if he stays
Then hold out for something, anything positive, and if by October nothing materializes, release him. '
Easy peasy.
The whole distraction thing is BS.. this (although young) are still professionals.
Knicks hold the cards bc if we don't get our deal we hold onto hom until he opts out... or at the poker game you play. No need for the Knicks to blink first.
Regarding Noah.. I could care less if he's paid to ride the bench. Best players play no matter their contract or draft status. We need to instill that mentality with this team and the players will get better.