Knicks · Why not add Frank Vogel to the Mix? (page 1)
Paris907 wrote:Not long ago, Vogel was a desirable commodity. Knicks have had so much turnover but none more than at the coaching level. I’m not suggesting he necessarily be Coach but if we are looking, shouldn’t we want to look at Fizdale, Vogel, M Jackson Doc among others. If not now, When?
Maybe after the season I guess to avoid the media circus?
We only have 6 games left... you want to fire and hire a coach now? Serves zero purpose. That's a Perry move. Keeping it classy
ABB, anyone but Blatt. Dont want the Knicks to be the team who finds out if he has changed his coaching style, which got him the boot. Smart guy, wasnt smart enough to check his ego at the door as a rookie coach. No more Princeton connection please. We've got plenty, lol.
Sound familiar? Maybe Magic fans are writing threads about JH too?
I don't follow the Magic and I suppose the scott Perry connection with him (we don't know if he was all on board for the hire or not when he was there) does make for some form of speculation that eventually someone will interpret as "Rumor".
Monty Williams? he is Vice President of basketball operations with the spurs. Not sure how old his kids are but after his wife was tragically killed Im guessing he is not ready to hit the road. Spurs have a good history with what ever they do (or is he the reason for discord with Leonard?) but Pop is no spring chicken and he might be being groomed for a major role with the team going forward.
Fizdale? Was his Memphis experience a learning experience? Dude Crashed and burned fast. We blast Rambis for his Timberwolve tenure and discmiss his role with the lakers as some form of "Nepotism", which is kind of silly factually. Fiz had a nice rise in the Riley Tree at Miami and then left the nest like Rambis and did not fair well. Put him in the pressure cooker of NY and can he handle it?
Mark Jax, Much been written on this. Doc? My take is Balmer might be done with him and he is used to making major money. He is doing a very good job this year and perhaps now relieved of his presidency he ca focus on fewer things and not promote his son. Lawrence Frank took over that last summer. He dogged Griff but he did real well for the franchise by trading him. Does Frank want Doc? Does Perry Want Doc?
Blatt is high on my list for many reasons:
1. Euro master coach and we have our allotment!
2. NBA experience and took Cavs to finals. I know, one of many with Lebron but it was a learning experience for him and as a rookie coach dealt with the circus that was cav's.
That would help him in NY.
3. Princeton buddies run the team. "Simpatico" matters. Also, he is well qualified!
Of the guys Eny mentioned I'd be ok with any of them but M Jax.
Nalod wrote:Phil passed on Vogel. Phil is not here. Losing teams like Magic will always have media and fans looking to make a change.
Sound familiar? Maybe Magic fans are writing threads about JH too?
I don't follow the Magic and I suppose the scott Perry connection with him (we don't know if he was all on board for the hire or not when he was there) does make for some form of speculation that eventually someone will interpret as "Rumor".
Monty Williams? he is Vice President of basketball operations with the spurs. Not sure how old his kids are but after his wife was tragically killed Im guessing he is not ready to hit the road. Spurs have a good history with what ever they do (or is he the reason for discord with Leonard?) but Pop is no spring chicken and he might be being groomed for a major role with the team going forward.
Fizdale? Was his Memphis experience a learning experience? Dude Crashed and burned fast. We blast Rambis for his Timberwolve tenure and discmiss his role with the lakers as some form of "Nepotism", which is kind of silly factually. Fiz had a nice rise in the Riley Tree at Miami and then left the nest like Rambis and did not fair well. Put him in the pressure cooker of NY and can he handle it?
Mark Jax, Much been written on this. Doc? My take is Balmer might be done with him and he is used to making major money. He is doing a very good job this year and perhaps now relieved of his presidency he ca focus on fewer things and not promote his son. Lawrence Frank took over that last summer. He dogged Griff but he did real well for the franchise by trading him. Does Frank want Doc? Does Perry Want Doc?Blatt is high on my list for many reasons:
1. Euro master coach and we have our allotment!
2. NBA experience and took Cavs to finals. I know, one of many with Lebron but it was a learning experience for him and as a rookie coach dealt with the circus that was cav's.
That would help him in NY.
3. Princeton buddies run the team. "Simpatico" matters. Also, he is well qualified!Of the guys Eny mentioned I'd be ok with any of them but M Jax.
Simpatico with players is even more important. Id want to see Blatt be very open about his time in Cleveland, before the Knicks gave him an interview. Blatt is an innovative coach, he wanted to put in the plan Lue did, before he was fired. His coaching style however is old school, and today's NBA stars wont have it. KP didnt respond to Hornacek going old school on him,
GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:Phil passed on Vogel. Phil is not here. Losing teams like Magic will always have media and fans looking to make a change.
Sound familiar? Maybe Magic fans are writing threads about JH too?
I don't follow the Magic and I suppose the scott Perry connection with him (we don't know if he was all on board for the hire or not when he was there) does make for some form of speculation that eventually someone will interpret as "Rumor".
Monty Williams? he is Vice President of basketball operations with the spurs. Not sure how old his kids are but after his wife was tragically killed Im guessing he is not ready to hit the road. Spurs have a good history with what ever they do (or is he the reason for discord with Leonard?) but Pop is no spring chicken and he might be being groomed for a major role with the team going forward.
Fizdale? Was his Memphis experience a learning experience? Dude Crashed and burned fast. We blast Rambis for his Timberwolve tenure and discmiss his role with the lakers as some form of "Nepotism", which is kind of silly factually. Fiz had a nice rise in the Riley Tree at Miami and then left the nest like Rambis and did not fair well. Put him in the pressure cooker of NY and can he handle it?
Mark Jax, Much been written on this. Doc? My take is Balmer might be done with him and he is used to making major money. He is doing a very good job this year and perhaps now relieved of his presidency he ca focus on fewer things and not promote his son. Lawrence Frank took over that last summer. He dogged Griff but he did real well for the franchise by trading him. Does Frank want Doc? Does Perry Want Doc?Blatt is high on my list for many reasons:
1. Euro master coach and we have our allotment!
2. NBA experience and took Cavs to finals. I know, one of many with Lebron but it was a learning experience for him and as a rookie coach dealt with the circus that was cav's.
That would help him in NY.
3. Princeton buddies run the team. "Simpatico" matters. Also, he is well qualified!Of the guys Eny mentioned I'd be ok with any of them but M Jax.
Simpatico with players is even more important. Id want to see Blatt be very open about his time in Cleveland, before the Knicks gave him an interview. Blatt is an innovative coach, he wanted to put in the plan Lue did, before he was fired. His coaching style however is old school, and today's NBA stars wont have it. KP didnt respond to Hornacek going old school on him,
Fans don't get transparency during the interview process. Blatt was hired to rebuild the cav's then Lebron signed on and he had his own ideas. Blatt never was head coach in NBA and it was thought he'd have some time to adapt. Blatt did not have Lebrons respect at the time. Lue was to Lebron like Van gundy was to Ewing. Lue did it Lebrons way, and for the Cav's that was the best thing. Once undermined Blatt had to go.
what do todays NBA stars respond to and why is Blatt "Old school"? He wanted to implement his schematic. If KP or any knick is not a fit for the that system then he should not be hired. Spo is old school, Thibs is old school, MDA is old school, Doc, Carlisle don't take crap, Raptors do it the coach's way, etc........
Not if a player can't take a scolding, then we all got things to worry about.
I don't know what the players think of Blatt and what his reputation is outside of Lebron.
Nalod wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:Phil passed on Vogel. Phil is not here. Losing teams like Magic will always have media and fans looking to make a change.
Sound familiar? Maybe Magic fans are writing threads about JH too?
I don't follow the Magic and I suppose the scott Perry connection with him (we don't know if he was all on board for the hire or not when he was there) does make for some form of speculation that eventually someone will interpret as "Rumor".
Monty Williams? he is Vice President of basketball operations with the spurs. Not sure how old his kids are but after his wife was tragically killed Im guessing he is not ready to hit the road. Spurs have a good history with what ever they do (or is he the reason for discord with Leonard?) but Pop is no spring chicken and he might be being groomed for a major role with the team going forward.
Fizdale? Was his Memphis experience a learning experience? Dude Crashed and burned fast. We blast Rambis for his Timberwolve tenure and discmiss his role with the lakers as some form of "Nepotism", which is kind of silly factually. Fiz had a nice rise in the Riley Tree at Miami and then left the nest like Rambis and did not fair well. Put him in the pressure cooker of NY and can he handle it?
Mark Jax, Much been written on this. Doc? My take is Balmer might be done with him and he is used to making major money. He is doing a very good job this year and perhaps now relieved of his presidency he ca focus on fewer things and not promote his son. Lawrence Frank took over that last summer. He dogged Griff but he did real well for the franchise by trading him. Does Frank want Doc? Does Perry Want Doc?Blatt is high on my list for many reasons:
1. Euro master coach and we have our allotment!
2. NBA experience and took Cavs to finals. I know, one of many with Lebron but it was a learning experience for him and as a rookie coach dealt with the circus that was cav's.
That would help him in NY.
3. Princeton buddies run the team. "Simpatico" matters. Also, he is well qualified!Of the guys Eny mentioned I'd be ok with any of them but M Jax.
Simpatico with players is even more important. Id want to see Blatt be very open about his time in Cleveland, before the Knicks gave him an interview. Blatt is an innovative coach, he wanted to put in the plan Lue did, before he was fired. His coaching style however is old school, and today's NBA stars wont have it. KP didnt respond to Hornacek going old school on him,
Fans don't get transparency during the interview process. Blatt was hired to rebuild the cav's then Lebron signed on and he had his own ideas. Blatt never was head coach in NBA and it was thought he'd have some time to adapt. Blatt did not have Lebrons respect at the time. Lue was to Lebron like Van gundy was to Ewing. Lue did it Lebrons way, and for the Cav's that was the best thing. Once undermined Blatt had to go.
what do todays NBA stars respond to and why is Blatt "Old school"? He wanted to implement his schematic. If KP or any knick is not a fit for the that system then he should not be hired. Spo is old school, Thibs is old school, MDA is old school, Doc, Carlisle don't take crap, Raptors do it the coach's way, etc........
Not if a player can't take a scolding, then we all got things to worry about.
I don't know what the players think of Blatt and what his reputation is outside of Lebron.
As a fan I get to ask whatever the hell I want. The Knicks listening is another matter.
Carlisle was bounced from his previous teams for being too old school, in spite of 50 win seasons, and playoff apearances. Tbibs is old scbool, because be's been in this league a long time. Its more about giving the team an "us against tbe world" attitude. Thats how he was able to inspire players to put themselves into the hospital in tbe playoffs. Riley did it too. But these guys are old school coaches with a track record.
Blatt had no problem comparing his success overseas, to the NBA. Big mistake. Old School. top down, me talk you listen, is tbe exception to the rule in today's NBA. The coaches who can pull it off are old school NBA with a track record. Blatt isnt.
GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Nalod wrote:Phil passed on Vogel. Phil is not here. Losing teams like Magic will always have media and fans looking to make a change.
Sound familiar? Maybe Magic fans are writing threads about JH too?
I don't follow the Magic and I suppose the scott Perry connection with him (we don't know if he was all on board for the hire or not when he was there) does make for some form of speculation that eventually someone will interpret as "Rumor".
Monty Williams? he is Vice President of basketball operations with the spurs. Not sure how old his kids are but after his wife was tragically killed Im guessing he is not ready to hit the road. Spurs have a good history with what ever they do (or is he the reason for discord with Leonard?) but Pop is no spring chicken and he might be being groomed for a major role with the team going forward.
Fizdale? Was his Memphis experience a learning experience? Dude Crashed and burned fast. We blast Rambis for his Timberwolve tenure and discmiss his role with the lakers as some form of "Nepotism", which is kind of silly factually. Fiz had a nice rise in the Riley Tree at Miami and then left the nest like Rambis and did not fair well. Put him in the pressure cooker of NY and can he handle it?
Mark Jax, Much been written on this. Doc? My take is Balmer might be done with him and he is used to making major money. He is doing a very good job this year and perhaps now relieved of his presidency he ca focus on fewer things and not promote his son. Lawrence Frank took over that last summer. He dogged Griff but he did real well for the franchise by trading him. Does Frank want Doc? Does Perry Want Doc?Blatt is high on my list for many reasons:
1. Euro master coach and we have our allotment!
2. NBA experience and took Cavs to finals. I know, one of many with Lebron but it was a learning experience for him and as a rookie coach dealt with the circus that was cav's.
That would help him in NY.
3. Princeton buddies run the team. "Simpatico" matters. Also, he is well qualified!Of the guys Eny mentioned I'd be ok with any of them but M Jax.
Simpatico with players is even more important. Id want to see Blatt be very open about his time in Cleveland, before the Knicks gave him an interview. Blatt is an innovative coach, he wanted to put in the plan Lue did, before he was fired. His coaching style however is old school, and today's NBA stars wont have it. KP didnt respond to Hornacek going old school on him,
Fans don't get transparency during the interview process. Blatt was hired to rebuild the cav's then Lebron signed on and he had his own ideas. Blatt never was head coach in NBA and it was thought he'd have some time to adapt. Blatt did not have Lebrons respect at the time. Lue was to Lebron like Van gundy was to Ewing. Lue did it Lebrons way, and for the Cav's that was the best thing. Once undermined Blatt had to go.
what do todays NBA stars respond to and why is Blatt "Old school"? He wanted to implement his schematic. If KP or any knick is not a fit for the that system then he should not be hired. Spo is old school, Thibs is old school, MDA is old school, Doc, Carlisle don't take crap, Raptors do it the coach's way, etc........
Not if a player can't take a scolding, then we all got things to worry about.
I don't know what the players think of Blatt and what his reputation is outside of Lebron.As a fan I get to ask whatever the hell I want. The Knicks listening is another matter.
Carlisle was bounced from his previous teams for being too old school, in spite of 50 win seasons, and playoff apearances. Tbibs is old scbool, because be's been in this league a long time. Its more about giving the team an "us against tbe world" attitude. Thats how he was able to inspire players to put themselves into the hospital in tbe playoffs. Riley did it too. But these guys are old school coaches with a track record.
Blatt had no problem comparing his success overseas, to the NBA. Big mistake. Old School. top down, me talk you listen, is tbe exception to the rule in today's NBA. The coaches who can pull it off are old school NBA with a track record. Blatt isnt.
You may be right. But Knicks don't have Lebron. We talking about a rebuilding team. Lebron had been to 5 finals by the time he got with Blatt.
GustavBahler wrote:Vogel isnt bad, Williams too. Miller is intruiging. Want a coach the players will stand behind.I agree. I would love to have Monty come back to NY. Miller is intriguing as well. Blatt's Cavs rep was really bad in regards to his arrogance and player relations.ABB, anyone but Blatt. Dont want the Knicks to be the team who finds out if he has changed his coaching style, which got him the boot. Smart guy, wasnt smart enough to check his ego at the door as a rookie coach. No more Princeton connection please. We've got plenty, lol.
Cartman718 wrote:i dont think hornacek is going anywhereagree and I think that is the smart move. We dont see the daily stuff. Maybe Jeff is tough on the players but the kind of tough they need. Maybe he's an asshole. Maybe he's OK but follows direction of the FO well and pushes the players on the things they value.
Unless there is some behind the scenes drama I would not be surprised to see him extended for 2 years. The stuff he's trying to get them to do is good, the stuff he gets pissed about is good. Cursing at a player for not closing out on a jumper shooter? Oh my! He yelled at someone! Hey Kyle... hustle harder and that doesnt happen.
No.. I hope he stays. I think we are getting the right kind of guys for him also.
I would like very much to see him next year as I think this group of guards mostly comes back.
Burke, Mudiay, Baker, THjr, Frank, Lee... we have a lot of guys and I think there is a good chance Burke is our opening day starting PG.
Unless we hear the guy is terrible to work with I like what I have seen from him. There is nothing else out there that is worth the risk of failure and disrupting the continuity.
fishmike wrote:Cartman718 wrote:i dont think hornacek is going anywhereagree and I think that is the smart move. We dont see the daily stuff. Maybe Jeff is tough on the players but the kind of tough they need. Maybe he's an asshole. Maybe he's OK but follows direction of the FO well and pushes the players on the things they value.Unless there is some behind the scenes drama I would not be surprised to see him extended for 2 years. The stuff he's trying to get them to do is good, the stuff he gets pissed about is good. Cursing at a player for not closing out on a jumper shooter? Oh my! He yelled at someone! Hey Kyle... hustle harder and that doesnt happen.
No.. I hope he stays. I think we are getting the right kind of guys for him also.
I would like very much to see him next year as I think this group of guards mostly comes back.
Burke, Mudiay, Baker, THjr, Frank, Lee... we have a lot of guys and I think there is a good chance Burke is our opening day starting PG.Unless we hear the guy is terrible to work with I like what I have seen from him. There is nothing else out there that is worth the risk of failure and disrupting the continuity.
JH has gotten on Kanter and KOQ fairly noticeably and I always wonder why he is not riding Angry Grandpa harder, that dude literally gives up on D waaaayyyy too often
Cartman718 wrote:i dont think hornacek is going anywhereInteresting podcast from The Knicks Wall discussing this. It is all speculation but they make some good points as to why they don't think Hornacek will be back.
https://theknickswall.com/tkw-podcast-wh...
GustavBahler wrote:Vogel isnt bad, Williams too. Miller is intruiging. Want a coach the players will stand behind.ABB, anyone but Blatt. Dont want the Knicks to be the team who finds out if he has changed his coaching style, which got him the boot. Smart guy, wasnt smart enough to check his ego at the door as a rookie coach. No more Princeton connection please. We've got plenty, lol.
I think Blatt was emasculated in Cleveland by Lebron. He rejected Blatts style and coaching..... they still went to the finals. So he wasn't a fail. Lebron fired him because he didn't want follow what Blatt suggested. Nobody can coach like that. Tyrone Lou is stressed out right now too... so there's something going on. Lebron has everyone by the balls because of his thirst to win. Very difficult to do your thing.
EnySpree wrote:I remember hearing Blatt and his ego were a big part of the problem. Expected instant respect because he won in europe from his players etc.GustavBahler wrote:Vogel isnt bad, Williams too. Miller is intruiging. Want a coach the players will stand behind.ABB, anyone but Blatt. Dont want the Knicks to be the team who finds out if he has changed his coaching style, which got him the boot. Smart guy, wasnt smart enough to check his ego at the door as a rookie coach. No more Princeton connection please. We've got plenty, lol.
I think Blatt was emasculated in Cleveland by Lebron. He rejected Blatts style and coaching..... they still went to the finals. So he wasn't a fail. Lebron fired him because he didn't want follow what Blatt suggested. Nobody can coach like that. Tyrone Lou is stressed out right now too... so there's something going on. Lebron has everyone by the balls because of his thirst to win. Very difficult to do your thing.
CrushAlot wrote:EnySpree wrote:I remember hearing Blatt and his ego were a big part of the problem. Expected instant respect because he won in europe from his players etc.GustavBahler wrote:Vogel isnt bad, Williams too. Miller is intruiging. Want a coach the players will stand behind.ABB, anyone but Blatt. Dont want the Knicks to be the team who finds out if he has changed his coaching style, which got him the boot. Smart guy, wasnt smart enough to check his ego at the door as a rookie coach. No more Princeton connection please. We've got plenty, lol.
I think Blatt was emasculated in Cleveland by Lebron. He rejected Blatts style and coaching..... they still went to the finals. So he wasn't a fail. Lebron fired him because he didn't want follow what Blatt suggested. Nobody can coach like that. Tyrone Lou is stressed out right now too... so there's something going on. Lebron has everyone by the balls because of his thirst to win. Very difficult to do your thing.
You don't think that's a bullshit story? That sounds like bullshit. Blatt is entitled to be confident in what he brings. He has to instill his philosophy. They hired him to do that. He should get instant respect. That's how it works. They went to the finals. He was going to the finals again beforehe was fired at the end of the next season.... with everything going on with Lue now, it should be crystal clear what happened there. Especially seeing Lebron curse Lue out openly every game. Taking over the huddles. It's crazy
EnySpree wrote:It might have been different for him if Lebron didn't come back but no I don't think it was a bs story. Heard it from too many places.CrushAlot wrote:EnySpree wrote:I remember hearing Blatt and his ego were a big part of the problem. Expected instant respect because he won in europe from his players etc.GustavBahler wrote:Vogel isnt bad, Williams too. Miller is intruiging. Want a coach the players will stand behind.ABB, anyone but Blatt. Dont want the Knicks to be the team who finds out if he has changed his coaching style, which got him the boot. Smart guy, wasnt smart enough to check his ego at the door as a rookie coach. No more Princeton connection please. We've got plenty, lol.
I think Blatt was emasculated in Cleveland by Lebron. He rejected Blatts style and coaching..... they still went to the finals. So he wasn't a fail. Lebron fired him because he didn't want follow what Blatt suggested. Nobody can coach like that. Tyrone Lou is stressed out right now too... so there's something going on. Lebron has everyone by the balls because of his thirst to win. Very difficult to do your thing.
You don't think that's a bullshit story? That sounds like bullshit. Blatt is entitled to be confident in what he brings. He has to instill his philosophy. They hired him to do that. He should get instant respect. That's how it works. They went to the finals. He was going to the finals again beforehe was fired at the end of the next season.... with everything going on with Lue now, it should be crystal clear what happened there. Especially seeing Lebron curse Lue out openly every game. Taking over the huddles. It's crazy
Thought this was a pretty thorough article. The quote about the "700 wins" sums up IMO where Blatt went wrong. Doesnt have to come back to the NBA singing "kumbaya" but he does need a crash course in connecting with NBA players, from the starters, to the role players, and reserves.
No way he can succeed without learning to get NBA players to buy in.